The good guy with a gun

boots-aregard · Postby **boots-aregard** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:16 am

Didn't need a gun...

http://www.pekintimes.com/article/20151 ... /151019593

Yes, crazy people who want to do damage will still want to do damage when guns are far harder to get their hands on. Maybe they'll choose a knife instead. And that means others will have a better chance of wrestling them to the ground before they can do that damage.

CanadianTrotter · Postby **CanadianTrotter** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:22 am

Those children would all be dead or injured if he had a gun.

KathyK · Postby **KathyK** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:54 pm

CanadianTrotter wrote:Those children would all be dead or injured if he had a gun.

You'd better believe it.

Figgy · Postby **Figgy** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:57 pm

there is no 'good guy with a gun', a civilian with a gun who plans to shoot other civilians is either a vigilante, terrorist or a murderer. Nothing more.

Postby **Chancellor** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:59 pm

Figgy wrote:there is no 'good guy with a gun', a civilian with a gun who plans to shoot other civilians is either a vigilante, terrorist or a murderer. Nothing more.

What about a civilian who doesn't plan to do so? One whose home has been invaded and is shooting the invader? What about that person?
I don't own a gun but I have absolutely no problem with someone protecting their property or family (even if said family is four legged).

WheresMyWhite · Postby **WheresMyWhite** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 3:30 pm

Figgy wrote:there is no 'good guy with a gun', a civilian with a gun who plans to shoot other civilians is either a vigilante, terrorist or a murderer. Nothing more.

This doesn't make sense to me...

There is no good guy with a gun - so we are all bad if we have guns.

or

A civilian with a gun who plans to shoot.... - so we're bad only if we plan to shoot someone else and then we are either a vigilante, terrorist or murderer? What about if I shoot in self defense to stop the threat and the assailant dies as a result?

stella · Postby **stella** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:09 pm

The "good guy with a gun" phrase was popularized when white people shot up stuff in public and caused damage or death because of their bufferoonery. If you want to have a gun in your house, do it. But leave it there and don't endanger the populace with it.

I agree with figgy. The operative word is "plans".

Avola · Postby **Avola** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:47 pm

If you own guns, fine. Leave them at home. What is the purpose of carrying a gun around if you don't plan to shoot it at some point or another?
Someone comes to your house with the intention of doing you harm, use the gun in self defense. You run around with a gun, you're looking to use it. And unless you're a hunter and you're carrying a hunting specific gun in the woods during hunting season, you're looking to use the gun you're carrying to do someone else harm. That makes you either a vigilante, a terrorist or a murderer.

WheresMyWhite · Postby **WheresMyWhite** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 7:58 pm

Avola wrote:You run around with a gun, you're looking to use it. And unless you're a hunter and you're carrying a hunting specific gun in the woods during hunting season, you're looking to use the gun you're carrying to do someone else harm. That makes you either a vigilante, a terrorist or a murderer.

Seriously??

You talking about 'carrying' for self-protection or 'carrying' because I'm on my way to the shooting range to practice/compete/have fun???

Frankly, harm is the last thing I would want to do to anyone even if I was carrying for self-protection. But, if I am in fear for my life, there may be an unfortunate outcome.

That is, of course, assuming I have a gun and assuming I might carry it ...

Avola · Postby **Avola** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:13 pm

Seriously??

You talking about 'carrying' for self-protection or 'carrying' because I'm on my way to the shooting range to practice/compete/have fun???

Seriously.

And I would very much like to believe that if you were carrying a gun around on the way to the shooting range, said gun would be properly stored in its case, unloaded. You know, like it should be transported and all.....

CanadianTrotter · Postby **CanadianTrotter** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:18 am

WheresMyWhite wrote:
Avola wrote:You run around with a gun, you're looking to use it. And unless you're a hunter and you're carrying a hunting specific gun in the woods during hunting season, you're looking to use the gun you're carrying to do someone else harm. That makes you either a vigilante, a terrorist or a murderer.

Seriously??

You talking about 'carrying' for self-protection or 'carrying' because I'm on my way to the shooting range to practice/compete/have fun???

Frankly, harm is the last thing I would want to do to anyone even if I was carrying for self-protection. But, if I am in fear for my life, there may be an unfortunate outcome.

That is, of course, assuming I have a gun and assuming I might carry it ...

You keep repeating, "assuming I have a gun". I believe you have said in different threads/in different forums, that you don't currently own a gun... please correct me if I'm wrong.

If you are carrying for self-protection then you have already reached the conclusion and decision to possibly use that gun and injure or kill someone if they are threatening your life. If you were to kill someone while acting is self defense... it is still HOMICIDE. It may be justifiable homocide.. but still homicide.

WheresMyWhite · Postby **WheresMyWhite** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:29 am

CanadianTrotter wrote:You keep repeating, "assuming I have a gun". I believe you have said in different threads/in different forums, that you don't currently own a gun... please correct me if I'm wrong.

Frankly, it is none of anyone's business in a public forum whether or not I have in my possession a firearm and, if I do, what kind or how many or anything else.

KathyK · Postby **KathyK** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:54 pm

People like WMW appear to be paranoid that their lives are going to be threatened at any given moment, so they must be armed as they stroll through the Piggly Wiggly. What a way to go through life.

Postby **Chancellor** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:00 pm

KathyK wrote:People like WMW appear to be paranoid that their lives are going to be threatened at any given moment, so they must be armed as they stroll through the Piggly Wiggly. What a way to go through life.

Or perhaps WMW considers herself a "boy scout" and is always prepared. One never knows.
The stories we see of mass shootings make the news because of the great tragedy. But we rarely see the story of the guy who was shot by a "boy scout, always prepared" person BEFORE he created a mass shooting.

KathyK · Postby **KathyK** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:26 pm

Chancellor wrote:
KathyK wrote:People like WMW appear to be paranoid that their lives are going to be threatened at any given moment, so they must be armed as they stroll through the Piggly Wiggly. What a way to go through life.

Or perhaps WMW considers herself a "boy scout" and is always prepared. One never knows.
The stories we see of mass shootings make the news because of the great tragedy. But we rarely see the story of the guy who was shot by a "boy scout, always prepared" person BEFORE he created a mass shooting.

By the same token, rarely do we see stories of the guy who was shot by a "boy scout, always prepared" person AFTER he created a mass shooting. There is such panic and confusion that, even though the boy scout thinks he or she will be able to do something about it, like calmly take aim and fire off a great shot, it doesn't happen. The shooter almost always is stopped by LEOs or shoots himself.

WheresMyWhite · Postby **WheresMyWhite** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:56 pm

KathyK wrote:People like WMW appear to be paranoid that their lives are going to be threatened at any given moment, so they must be armed as they stroll through the Piggly Wiggly. What a way to go through life.

If that's how you want to perceive me, I'm perfectly fine with that...

As a general statement (and I've said similar before), you (the general 'you') only know about me what I choose to say. I'm perfectly fine with opinions being formed based on my comments. Sometimes I just think they are funny as pretty far from the truth and a stretch even based on what I have said.

i have far bigger challenges in my personal life than worrying about being threatened when I go grocery shopping. Or perhaps, I should only be concerned if it is a Piggly Wiggly?? (Never been in one so I have no idea what they are like.)

:lol:

Postby **Chancellor** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:02 pm

KathyK wrote:People like WMW appear to be paranoid that their lives are going to be threatened at any given moment, so they must be armed as they stroll through the Piggly Wiggly. What a way to go through life.

I do have to say, if that is the way she chooses to go through life, of what concern is it to you? We all make life choices. I am SURE there are plenty of people who say to themselves, "Oh, she can't afford xyz because she has a horse. What a way to go through life." We all make choices.

KathyK · Postby **KathyK** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:17 pm

I'm saying that people believing their lives are in enough danger that they arm themselves when out and about their daily activities is of great concern to me, as that kind of paranoia isn't a sign of a composed and healthy mind. It puts me and those I care about in danger through no fault of our own. This is a far, far cry from concerning oneself with how other people spend their money. That's a false analogy if I ever heard one.

Postby **Chancellor** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:40 pm

KathyK wrote:I'm saying that people believing their lives are in enough danger that they arm themselves when out and about their daily activities is of great concern to me, as that kind of paranoia isn't a sign of a composed and healthy mind. It puts me and those I care about in danger through no fault of our own. This is a far, far cry from concerning oneself with how other people spend their money. That's a false analogy if I ever heard one.

Do you put your seatbelt on everyday when you get in the car? Does that make you paranoid that you are going to get into an accident? Do you wear a helmet when you ride? Are you paranoid you are going to fall off your horse?
To some people, carrying a gun in case of needing to protect oneself, is not paranoia. It is just being prepared.

KathyK · Postby **KathyK** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:46 pm

More false analogies. There are overwhelming statistics that prove that because of the huge numbers of auto accidents, not buckling up can be very dangerous. Same thing with helmets. We know that many, many people fall from their horses and riding without a helmet is practically inviting a TBI if you fall.

To some people, carrying a gun in case of needing to protect oneself, is not paranoia. It is just being prepared.

Prepared for WHAT? What is the clear and present threat at the grocery store?

Postby **Chancellor** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:05 pm

KathyK wrote:More false analogies. There are overwhelming statistics that prove that because of the huge numbers of auto accidents, not buckling up can be very dangerous. Same thing with helmets. We know that many, many people fall from their horses and riding without a helmet is practically inviting a TBI if you fall.
To some people, carrying a gun in case of needing to protect oneself, is not paranoia. It is just being prepared.

Prepared for WHAT? What is the clear and present threat at the grocery store?

Should we ask the people in the movie theater the same question when James Holmes came in? What was the clear and present danger when going to the movies?
An analogy is not false just because you don't accept it by the way.

Just because YOUR threshold for clear and present danger is different from someone else does not mean you should be dismissive of someone else's fear.

KathyK · Postby **KathyK** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:18 pm

Statistically, except in extreme and extremely infrequent cases, there is no danger, clear and present or otherwise, in going to the movies. If there were, people would stop going.

WheresMyWhite · Postby **WheresMyWhite** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:14 pm

And now I wonder who's paranoid...

KathyK · Postby **KathyK** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:33 pm

Whose paranoid what??? :lol:

Even grammatically correct, that's a laughable, nonsensical statement.

Tabby · Postby **Tabby** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:28 pm

Chancellor wrote:

Do you put your seatbelt on everyday when you get in the car? Does that make you paranoid that you are going to get into an accident? Do you wear a helmet when you ride? Are you paranoid you are going to fall off your horse?
To some people, carrying a gun in case of needing to protect oneself, is not paranoia. It is just being prepared.

Nobody other than yourself will ever be harmed whether you wear a seat belt or not. Same with a helmet. But when someone carries a gun for any reason, anyone around can become collateral damage through no fault of their own. When you carry one to protect yourself, you endanger everyone else.

stella · Postby **stella** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:30 pm

Just because YOUR threshold for clear and present danger is different from someone else does not mean you should be dismissive of someone else's fear.

My threshold of personal safety is impinged by a person outside of law enforcement carrying a weapon. Like the guy who shot into a car last week and killed a 4 year old, and the woman last month that shot at two fleeing robbery suspects in a Home Depot parking lot.

These are you average citizens. They should not be armed.

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

This is not OK.

Figgy · Postby **Figgy** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:28 am

start throwing the murder charge at people who are not police who shoot individuals and you'll find that people will not want to carry guns in public

WheresMyWhite · Postby **WheresMyWhite** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:38 am

Figgy wrote:start throwing the murder charge at people who are not police who shoot individuals and you'll find that people will not want to carry guns in public

Even if they don't meet the legal definition of 'murder' vs something like manslaughter??

boots-aregard · Postby **boots-aregard** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:02 am

Chancellor wrote:Do you put your seatbelt on everyday when you get in the car? Does that make you paranoid that you are going to get into an accident? Do you wear a helmet when you ride? Are you paranoid you are going to fall off your horse?
To some people, carrying a gun in case of needing to protect oneself, is not paranoia. It is just being prepared.

Chancellor, what "seatbelt" can I put on to save myself from a shooter?

I *do* believe in lowering risk when I can. Where's the gun 'seatbelt'?

WheresMyWhite · Postby **WheresMyWhite** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:58 pm

boots-aregard wrote:I *do* believe in lowering risk when I can. Where's the gun 'seatbelt'?

You must not drive your car then either. IMO, tons of risk there from other drivers... sober, drunk, under the influence of legal and illegal drugs... even drivers that are in a rush and think they are more important than you are.

Tabby · Postby **Tabby** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:01 pm

Seat belts reduce the risk of injury/death from other drivers regardless of their mode of stupidity. I believe boots was asking what can protect you against other people's guns?

Postby **Chancellor** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:02 pm

WheresMyWhite wrote:
boots-aregard wrote:I *do* believe in lowering risk when I can. Where's the gun 'seatbelt'?

You must not drive your car then either. IMO, tons of risk there from other drivers... sober, drunk, under the influence of legal and illegal drugs... even drivers that are in a rush and think they are more important than you are.

And let's not forget texting while driving.

I realize that my analogy is not perfect. However, I do believe in people being able to protect themselves if they feel it is necessary. So, I guess the gun 'seatbelt' is having one's own gun to protect oneself?

FYI, I do not carry a gun nor do I advocate gun violence.

Tabby · Postby **Tabby** » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:56 pm

Chancellor wrote:
I realize that my analogy is not perfect. However, I do believe in people being able to protect themselves if they feel it is necessary. So, I guess the gun 'seatbelt' is having one's own gun to protect oneself?

I guess this is where we really differ. In my opinion, having my own gun puts me in even more danger. It would be similar to car surfing (standing on the roof of the car traveling down the highway). I believe the statistics back me up.

boots-aregard · Postby **boots-aregard** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:34 am

WheresMyWhite wrote:
boots-aregard wrote:I *do* believe in lowering risk when I can. Where's the gun 'seatbelt'?

You must not drive your car then either. IMO, tons of risk there from other drivers... sober, drunk, under the influence of legal and illegal drugs... even drivers that are in a rush and think they are more important than you are.

My point, thank you.

I buy cars that stack up there on the safety rating. I buy cars with airbags and air curtains and collapsing bumpers and I drive defensively. There are things I can do about the idiots on the road.

The idiots packing heat in a grocery where her toddler can get hold of it? What would you recommend?

((Other than living in California, which is another thing that I do. San Francisco's last gun shop is set to close - was on the news today. And gun zealots are blaming anti-gun laws, though most sensible people are noticing the 'new' anti-gun laws aren't even proposals yet, let alone laws. The owner is in his 70s. He's done.))

WheresMyWhite · Postby **WheresMyWhite** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 5:23 am

boots-aregard wrote:The idiots packing heat in a grocery where her toddler can get hold of it? What would you recommend?

Shop someplace else?

More stringent laws to address parental stupidity and ignorance?

"Packing heat"... one of my personal favorite phrases :lol:

stella · Postby **stella** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:13 am

WheresMyWhite wrote:
boots-aregard wrote:The idiots packing heat in a grocery where her toddler can get hold of it? What would you recommend?

Shop someplace else?

More stringent laws to address parental stupidity and ignorance?

"Packing heat"... one of my personal favorite phrases

If conceal and carry is legal in my state, where in the world do you suggest I shop? You simply do not know who is armed and who is not where ever you are if you are not at home.

Postby **Chancellor** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:17 am

WheresMyWhite wrote:
boots-aregard wrote:The idiots packing heat in a grocery where her toddler can get hold of it? What would you recommend?

Shop someplace else?

More stringent laws to address parental stupidity and ignorance?

I'm sure this won't be a popular answer but I am going to say it. We don't need more stringent laws to address parental stupidity and ignorance. Let Darwin take care of them.

CanadianTrotter · Postby **CanadianTrotter** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:31 pm

6c legs wrote:
WheresMyWhite wrote:
CanadianTrotter wrote:You keep repeating, "assuming I have a gun". I believe you have said in different threads/in different forums, that you don't currently own a gun... please correct me if I'm wrong.

Frankly, it is none of anyone's business in a public forum whether or not I have in my possession a firearm and, if I do, what kind or how many or anything else.

brace yourselves.

I agree with WMW. (on this particular note) I think it is foolish to announce to the world what weapons one may have at home or what one may or may not carry when out in public.

however. personally I would prefer that people/US citizens who enjoy target shooting kept their pistols/etc at the gun club where they were housed in conditions like australian gun club patrons keep theirs.

"Brace yourselves" ten fold...

I agree with her on this particular note as well. I just find it a bit imature, misleading, baiting, game playing, enter own descriptive word... to claim she doesn't own a gun on one thread/board to "maybe I do/maybe I don't, nyuh, nyuh, nyuh..."

Just trying to keep stories and claims straight.

CanadianTrotter · Postby **CanadianTrotter** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:47 pm

Chancellor wrote:
KathyK wrote:I'm saying that people believing their lives are in enough danger that they arm themselves when out and about their daily activities is of great concern to me, as that kind of paranoia isn't a sign of a composed and healthy mind. It puts me and those I care about in danger through no fault of our own. This is a far, far cry from concerning oneself with how other people spend their money. That's a false analogy if I ever heard one.

Do you put your seatbelt on everyday when you get in the car? Does that make you paranoid that you are going to get into an accident? Do you wear a helmet when you ride? Are you paranoid you are going to fall off your horse?
To some people, carrying a gun in case of needing to protect oneself, is not paranoia. It is just being prepared.

A very poor analogy.

Using a tool to prevent injury while engaging in a potentially dangerous situation that can be caused due to human error vs carrying a gun just in case there might be a possible shooter on Main Street or in WalMart, or that guy getting on the bus looks mighty suspicious, or that black guy wearing the hoodie is reaching into his pocket, etc...?

I would really like to know the numbers of guns owned and carried by "supposed responsible gun owners" that are actually used in a case of actual self-defense or "I'm a hero" vs the accidental deaths/injuries caused by these exact same guns. Are there higher numbers of actual cases when these guns have been successfully used for self-defense or higher numbers of innocent victims caused by these guns kept for self-defense?

CanadianTrotter · Postby **CanadianTrotter** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:53 pm

Chancellor wrote:
KathyK wrote:More false analogies. There are overwhelming statistics that prove that because of the huge numbers of auto accidents, not buckling up can be very dangerous. Same thing with helmets. We know that many, many people fall from their horses and riding without a helmet is practically inviting a TBI if you fall.
To some people, carrying a gun in case of needing to protect oneself, is not paranoia. It is just being prepared.

Prepared for WHAT? What is the clear and present threat at the grocery store?

Should we ask the people in the movie theater the same question when James Holmes came in? What was the clear and present danger when going to the movies?
An analogy is not false just because you don't accept it by the way.

Just because YOUR threshold for clear and present danger is different from someone else does not mean you should be dismissive of someone else's fear.

So instead of stricter gun control.... arm every "Heckle&Jeckle" in a movie theater just in case a shooter enters?

If I was afraid that I might get shot if I went to a movie.... I would wait for the DVD instead of playing Rambo.

CanadianTrotter · Postby **CanadianTrotter** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:58 pm

WheresMyWhite wrote:
boots-aregard wrote:I *do* believe in lowering risk when I can. Where's the gun 'seatbelt'?

You must not drive your car then either. IMO, tons of risk there from other drivers... sober, drunk, under the influence of legal and illegal drugs... even drivers that are in a rush and think they are more important than you are.

I don't think that everyone that gets in a car has the idea, "If that other driver looks suspicious I'm gonna ram him with my car before he runs into me!"

A car is used for transportation... not self-defense.

Intention of use.

CanadianTrotter · Postby **CanadianTrotter** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:02 pm

Chancellor wrote:
WheresMyWhite wrote:
boots-aregard wrote:The idiots packing heat in a grocery where her toddler can get hold of it? What would you recommend?

Shop someplace else?

More stringent laws to address parental stupidity and ignorance?

I'm sure this won't be a popular answer but I am going to say it. We don't need more stringent laws to address parental stupidity and ignorance. Let Darwin take care of them.

Yep... let Darwin snuff out the innocent children.

KathyK · Postby **KathyK** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:03 pm

I am so sick of the car analogy that is used by people who have no real argument to justify open/concealed carry. The lack of honesty in this analogy is astonishing. You come across like you don't understand that the primary purpose of driving a car is transportation, while the primary purpose of carrying a loaded gun is to shoot someone. You claim it's to "defend" yourself, but you won't be able to do that without firing the gun at another human being. At least be honest and stop comparing guns to automobiles.

CanadianTrotter · Postby **CanadianTrotter** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:08 pm

KathyK wrote:I am so sick of the car analogy that is used by people who have no real argument to justify open/concealed carry. The lack of honesty in this analogy is astonishing. You come across like you don't understand that the primary purpose of driving a car is transportation, while the primary purpose of carrying a loaded gun is to shoot someone. You claim it's to "defend" yourself, but you won't be able to do that without firing the gun at another human being. At least be honest and stop comparing guns to automobiles.

Exactly...

WheresMyWhite · Postby **WheresMyWhite** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:32 pm

CanadianTrotter wrote:I agree with her on this particular note as well. I just find it a bit imature, misleading, baiting, game playing, enter own descriptive word... to claim she doesn't own a gun on one thread/board to "maybe I do/maybe I don't, nyuh, nyuh, nyuh..."

If you wish to apply all those adjectives to me, well bless your heart, be my guest.

I have NEVER said one way or the other whether I own a firearm or not as I have always believed that that is no one's business on a public forum. It appears others have made their own conclusions based on comments I have said. That would be their problem, not mine.

Postby **Chancellor** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:33 pm

WheresMyWhite wrote:
CanadianTrotter wrote:I agree with her on this particular note as well. I just find it a bit imature, misleading, baiting, game playing, enter own descriptive word... to claim she doesn't own a gun on one thread/board to "maybe I do/maybe I don't, nyuh, nyuh, nyuh..."

If you wish to apply all those adjectives to me, well bless your heart, be my guest.

I have NEVER said one way or the other whether I own a firearm or not as I have always believed that that is no one's business on a public forum. It appears others have made their own conclusions based on comments I have said. That would be their problem, not mine.

I have to agree with WMW here. If she chooses to not say whether she owns/carries etc a gun, that is her business and her choice and no one else's.

KathyK · Postby **KathyK** » Wed Oct 28, 2015 6:49 pm

Who cares whether WMW wants to tell us whether she carries a gun? I certainly don't. What I object to is allowing every Tom, Dick, and Harry to walk around with loaded weapons, and the ridiculous arguments that are used to justify arming the general populace.

WheresMyWhite · Postby **WheresMyWhite** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:45 am

CT certainly appeared to care...

CanadianTrotter · Postby **CanadianTrotter** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:23 am

WheresMyWhite wrote:CT certainly appeared to care...

You're quite mistaken... I could care a less what you do/do not do. I doubt very much that your choice to own/carry or not toown/carry will make much difference to society.

I was simply reminding you that sometime ago on the UDBB, during one of the neverending gun debates, you claimed that you did not own/carry a gun.

Postby **Chancellor** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:03 am

Let's keep the conversation about the topic rather that what he said she said.

Who is online