Where we have failed....

angela9823
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Where we have failed....

Postby angela9823 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:30 am

Someone asked where we have failed. I think this news article shows where we are failing as a society as a whole even with no guns involved: http://www.wltx.com/story/news/local/20 ... /74645568/ The girl is clearly in the wrong. But the officer takes this so overboard. I struggled watching what he did with the child. I can't imagine being a teacher in this kind of setting. First you have a student who disrupts class and then to watch this treatment. Not only did the cop put the child in danger, but he also puts himself in danger too. That kind of treatment would spark a reaction in me..now imagine that many teenagers watching it. I'm really surprised he did not have a mutiny on his hands.

We had students refusing to go to principal's office when we were young. I watched as two teachers dragged a student and chair to the principal's office once. The student didn't want to go for fear of our principal and -I'm sure - what the parent would do when he/she was called. We never saw a cop or teacher or principal resort to something like this though (that I can remember). Some of our parents would have done it when we got home though.

Anyway, just thought this would add to the recent discussions of society in general.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chisamba » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:40 am

Maybe it's my phone but I couldn't see a darn thing on the fee second of video shown. I will watch on the computer. I am concerned about police violence, but I also dislike it when TV has to interpret what i am seeing... I feel likevf they have to tell you what it is, it's not that obvious.

Now I have to find a clearer video.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby angela9823 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:47 am

The video is not real clear during the second half. A student was videoing in the classroom with his phone. I don't think they were allowed so he was having to hide it. The first half shows a girl sitting in her chair (refusing to get up), the cop goes up and puts her in choke hold, slams her and chair down, then drags/throws her across the room and proceeds to handcuff her while she's fighting him.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby emmalou » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:01 pm

I saw that on the news this morning. I have no idea how you would handle a teen that refused to leave the room when asked. That's certainly not it unless I suppose she had a weapon or something, which they haven't claimed.

I don't know that I would consider this as our society failing. I'm sure stuff like this has been going on forever. With technology these days we get to see it and I think it's dramatically changing our society and policing.

Around here, school resource officer seems to be a pretty in demand job for officers tired of patrol. Regular hours, take home car, etc. I think this guy just royally screwed himself due to lack of patience and getting his knickers in a twist over a girl not following his orders.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Spiritpaws » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:30 am

The brute force of that resource officer is absolutely out of line. Clearly the teacher and the school administration don't know what to do when a stubborn kid says No I Won't.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby angela9823 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:33 am

Spiritpaws wrote:The brute force of that resource officer is absolutely out of line. Clearly the teacher and the school administration don't know what to do when a stubborn kid says No I Won't.
What do you do?

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chancellor » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:21 am

I'm curious too. What DO you do when a kid simply says no? Unfortunately, I think we are going to see more of kids saying no and more adults not knowing how to handle it. I think we are raising a society of kids who just don't give a damn.
My company has a program for college interns and has a summer full of interns. We have done this for the last three years. I'd say MOST of these college age kids are lazy and surly.
We had one girl who went on to get a job at a local science company who quit ONE day after starting work because the work was too hard.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby angela9823 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:23 pm

My husband sees it too. He hired some college age kids (not actually IN college though) to clean dishes. Most quit the first day. These are kids that the parents want out of their house. They have no ambition in life and hoping to just get them some kind of job.

AOL has another article on this event this morning (as do other news stations) that have brought out three videos and students discussing what happened. The students interviewed said this particular lady did not want to put away her phone when asked by teachers and admins. She was then asked to leave the room and would not do that either.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chisamba » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:28 pm

i looked and looked and did not see a choke hold, what i saw, and even the eye witness said, was the closing of the computer, the moving of the desk and then a very rapid flipping of the chair, and pulling the student out and arresting her. perhaps it was excessive, but i would like to know if she even had a bruise.

i think it is outrageous that a student would refuse to leave a class room when asked by a teacher or administrator, and if she has not been hurt ( are there any pictures of bruises or injuries being discussed?) then i do not think excessive force was used. let me put it this way, if my Son broke a class rule and then compounded it be refusing to co operate, i would be okay with the amount of force used to remove and arrest. i do not believe in physical punishment, but i am okay with physical consequences. when he was little if he refused to move i would move him, of course when they are little it is easy to do a hug move to ensure compliance.

i was with a youth group once, going on a lovely trip rock climbing and we were hiking to the rock face. i was a chaperone, not even one of the leaders, and a couple of youth picked up sharp rocks and started throwing them at cows in the field alongside the road, really trying to hurt them. of course i immediately told them to stop at which they took great pleasure in picking up more stones and hurling them at the cows. i picked up my phone and started to call the police. let me tell you, at that moment if they refused to stop i would have quite happily wanted to cop to take them down hard and arrest them, hard enough to scare them but not hard enough to really hurt them. fortunately the threat of police was enough to make them put down the rocks and rejoin the group, but they complained for half an hour about ruining their fun and there was nothing wrong with their actions.

i do not know what i would do in the situation which i suppose is the obvious reason that I am no longer a teacher. it is actually easier to work with people that you know cannot reason and logic and deal patiently with outbursts and behaviour disorders than it is to work with defiance.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chancellor » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:32 pm

I read the story. It says that she needs to wear a cast on her arm. So whether it is broken or what I don't know.

We were talking about this topic the other day at work. I work with two PhDs who are not from this country (Not sure that matters). But, we all think that the kids today who have been raised in the generation of no one loses...everyone gets a ribbon, trophy etc for participation, are just abysmal.

They don't want to work. They have absolutely no respect for people including each other. They expect things to be done for them. This year was the first year we required them to take a test before hiring them to see how much chemistry/science they knew.

One kid handed in his test blank stating "This is chemistry 101 which was two years ago. I don't remember that." Well kid, I hate to tell you but it's been 20+ years since I had chemistry 101 and I got a passing grade on the test when I took it.

Here is your link:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/us/south- ... est-video/

PS. Angela, thanks for putting this in the hot topics forum instead of the Obs Lounge!

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chisamba » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:39 pm

Chancellor wrote:I think she has a broken arm Chisamba.


well then i would go to say that is proof that excessive force was used, and I will change my mind. i think he should have removed her, but not with sufficient aggression to actually hurt her. There are ways to physically ask for compliance minimizing the likelihood of injury, and if you are working in a school you should be both educated to use them, and be willing to use restraint not aggression.

i am okay with using of physical force to ask for compliance but not to the point of injury

i searched all over google, and could only find a statement that she had rug burn but was not injured? do you have a link to the indication of injuries? ok okay , i finally found the lawyers claims of injuries, he does not actually say she has a broken arm, just that it i in a cast, and back and neck injuries, coming from the lawyer, if i were the judge in the case, ( which is clearly building up to a lawsuit) i would need to see the actual medical reports, and probably from more than one doctor.

so my feeling is, if she really is injured, it was definitely excessive force,
the still pictures enhanced and taken from the video do show more than the original video
she would not have been in the position to be hurt if she had simply complied to a reasonable request in the first place.
Last edited by Chisamba on Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby angela9823 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 12:43 pm

Chisamba wrote:i looked and looked and did not see a choke hold, what i saw, and even the eye witness said, was the closing of the computer, the moving of the desk and then a very rapid flipping of the chair, and pulling the student out and arresting her. perhaps it was excessive, but i would like to know if she even had a bruise.
After seeing video #2 and #3, I agree with you about the choke hold. I also don't think it was. Seeing the other two videos I amend what I thought I saw in the first.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chisamba » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:05 pm

So to answer the original question, where did we go wrong? i think that in more than one place.

I think that it is increasingly evident that police officers should be taught, as much as possible how to enforce physical compliance with the least likelihood of injury, however with the understanding that these people are targeted and at a higher risk than a normal person. is a big officer at risk from a petite schoolgirl, no, then he should have the sense to know that restraint is needed.

i also think that there is a sad lacking of co operation and an strong sense of entitlement that seems to have become more prevalent in society. perhaps it is not more prevalent, maybe it was always so, and I just did not know it, but i do know if i were pulled over in a car, arrested, or asked to do something in school i would never have even considered being defiant. was it they way i was raised? was it simply because i am by nature sort of a rule follower? i do not know. but the stone throwing incident i had with the teens shocked me, it shocked me that someone would throw stones at animals and it shocked me that they would refuse to stop, or even increase when asked to stop, so i am not convinced of the innate goodness of teens, and realize that teachers and police are not automatically safe, simply because they are in school.

this particular incident did not look as though there was anyone at risk, it was simply defiance. I think that is where the line is crossed, if the behavior of some one is putting others at risk, there might be an excuse for excessive force, but not in a situation like this.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby CanadianTrotter » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:25 pm

I blame the outcome of the incident on the system.

Why would any school have only one security person to deal with possible problems?

If there were two responsible and able bodied people to remove the threat there would have been much less force needed and much less struggle. Not to mention that the daily pay for two officers would be much less than the lawsuit that will come out of this.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chancellor » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:30 pm

CanadianTrotter wrote:I blame the outcome of the incident on the system.

Why would any school have only one security person to deal with possible problems?

If there were two responsible and able bodied people to remove the threat there would have been much less force needed and much less struggle. Not to mention that the daily pay for two officers would be much less than the lawsuit that will come out of this.


But parents don't want to pay to have two (or more) resource officers in the schools. Currently something like 80% of my local taxes go to fund the schools. I have no children.
My nieces' school's library is staffed by volunteers because the schools can't afford librarians.
It's all well and good to say "Why would any school have only one security person to deal with possible problems? " but it is quite another to fund the solution.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby emmalou » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:39 pm

Our high schools have one Sheriff Deputy assigned to each school. They are not security officers. We used to have what we called "narcs" as well, but I don't know if they still have those with a police officer being assigned to each school. When I was in high school the "narcs" were guys that had graduated a couple years earlier.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby CanadianTrotter » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:41 pm

Chancellor wrote:
CanadianTrotter wrote:I blame the outcome of the incident on the system.

Why would any school have only one security person to deal with possible problems?

If there were two responsible and able bodied people to remove the threat there would have been much less force needed and much less struggle. Not to mention that the daily pay for two officers would be much less than the lawsuit that will come out of this.


But parents don't want to pay to have two (or more) resource officers in the schools. Currently something like 80% of my local taxes go to fund the schools. I have no children.
My nieces' school's library is staffed by volunteers because the schools can't afford librarians.
It's all well and good to say "Why would any school have only one security person to deal with possible problems? " but it is quite another to fund the solution.



Higher taxes?

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chancellor » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:49 pm

I would certainly vote hard against paying higher taxes than I already do. How about having parents teach their kids respect for people in authority?
This officer should be disciplined but what about the brat of a girl?? She shows no respect for principal, teacher nor police officer...She was mistreated BECAUSE she had no respect.
Parents need to teach their kids to respect those in authority. It's time to take some personal responsibility.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby emmalou » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:49 pm

I'd rather have a librarian, art program, more teacher aids, etc than more security officers.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby CanadianTrotter » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:59 pm

Chancellor wrote:I would certainly vote hard against paying higher taxes than I already do. How about having parents teach their kids respect for people in authority?
This officer should be disciplined but what about the brat of a girl?? She shows no respect for principal, teacher nor police officer...She was mistreated BECAUSE she had no respect.
Parents need to teach their kids to respect those in authority. It's time to take some personal responsibility.



Higher taxes to employ more people in security vs forcing parents to take personal responsibility.

Which of these options can be dealt with faster?

You want parents to become more personally responsible for their kids, yet many of those parents leave guns loaded and laying around their houses. A parent has to be responsible in order to teach responsibility.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chancellor » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:41 pm

So we continue to legislate common sense and no one develops any?

In 10 years will others be arguing how we need to make stronger laws so that little Susie can't take the car out at 6 years old because her parents left it running?

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby WheresMyWhite » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:39 pm

Chisamba wrote:well then i would go to say that is proof that excessive force was used, and I will change my mind. i think he should have removed her, but not with sufficient aggression to actually hurt her. There are ways to physically ask for compliance minimizing the likelihood of injury, and if you are working in a school you should be both educated to use them, and be willing to use restraint not aggression.


I am not saying LE was correct in their behavior but resistance is much easier than restraint. One person resisting can hold off multiple people attempting to restrain (yes, even LE trained in restraint techniques).

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby WheresMyWhite » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:39 pm

Chancellor wrote:In 10 years will others be arguing how we need to make stronger laws so that little Susie can't take the car out at 6 years old because her parents left it running?


Oh, wait... more legislation... where have I heard that before???

:evil:

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby angela9823 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:12 pm

My thinking on what the officer should have done - handcuff said girl to the desk. Remove cell phone. Pull girl with chair out into the hall. Call parent. If it were MY parents that answered the call, I would have been carted off to jail anyway.

I also don't understand why the school is allowing students to carry the cell phones. DD's highschool required students leave cell phones in their cars or at home. They went through security scanners to get in the building and if a cell phone was on your person, it was removed to be given back and the end of the day on first offense; parents had to pick it up on second offense and on third it was not given back until the end of the school year. They weren't allowed in the school just like they are not allowed in our courtrooms.

That school is already in one of the highest taxed areas in our state (#3 if I remember correctly) so I don't think that is the answer.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chancellor » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:18 pm

angela9823 wrote:My thinking on what the officer should have done - handcuff said girl to the desk. Remove cell phone. Pull girl with chair out into the hall. Call parent. If it were MY parents that answered the call, I would have been carted off to jail anyway.

I also don't understand why the school is allowing students to carry the cell phones. DD's highschool required students leave cell phones in their cars or at home. They went through security scanners to get in the building and if a cell phone was on your person, it was removed to be given back and the end of the day on first offense; parents had to pick it up on second offense and on third it was not given back until the end of the school year. They weren't allowed in the school just like they are not allowed in our courtrooms.

That school is already in one of the highest taxed areas in our state (#3 if I remember correctly) so I don't think that is the answer.


But what if they need to get a hold of Little Johnny emergently? They HAVE to have cell phones...
Insert sarcasm emoticon here.

I agree with you. Cell phones should not be allowed in schools.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Code3 » Wed Oct 28, 2015 9:53 pm

Many years ago I supervised the School Resource Officers Team. There was one officer in each of our five high schools. They are a great resource and liaison, and do much to build trust in the community. I totally support having officers in the schools.

This deputy was out of line, IMO. What about talking to her some more? What about calling another officer and using pain compliance holds? No, those aren't pretty either but you aren't risking injury by throwing someone to the ground (with their desk) and dragging them across the room. The girl was wrong but the officer's reactions only made it worse. He overreacted.

And what about the other girl, who objected to what was happening, also getting arrested by this officer?

Craziness.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Avola » Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:01 pm

FYI the officer has been fired. Apparently he was in the habit of slamming students into the ground with no apparent provocation so this was not the first time something like this happened, only the first time it was caught on video. Good riddance. That was definitely out of line.
Was the girl wrong? Yes. But I'm glad this guy was let go as I don't believe violence is a deterrent for anything.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby xhltsalute » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:42 pm

I can't imagine losing my mother when I was 16. That poor girl! She wasn't hurting anyone, including herself, she was just being insolent. Giving her TLC would have helped the situation much better than assaulting her.

While Lott reiterated his belief that the student "started the whole thing," he stated that Fields has been terminated from the Richland County Sheriff's Department because the internal investigation determined that the maneuvers used on the girl were a flagrant violation of the department's policy. "The student was not a danger and Officer Ben Fields treated her as if she was a physical danger," Lott added.

Pretty much boils down to this. Given the speed he was fired they knew they could not spin it IMO. No she was not a danger to anyone & the deputy was not in fear for his life.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby angela9823 » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:08 am

I have more friends on Facebook siding with officer than not. I'm ashamed that this many people think it okay to treat a human being like this. Another officer said it is illegal to handcuff someone to an object. Really? So it is perfectly "legal" in his mind to sling a minor, but not legal to handcuff her to an object if he thought she was a physical threat?

The sad part is that the people that post how right the officer is are the same people that post videos of horses being trained in alternative methods - treat them with kindness instead of scaring them. They post clicker training videos of dogs and how positive reinforcement is a preferred method. But we can't treat people with the same kind of compassion. I think this is what is wrong with society. We can see how wrong this punishment is for animals; we can't see how wrong it is for people.

Xhltsalute, where did you see this girl lost her mom at 16?

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby emmalou » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:05 pm

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.2414901

I don't see this on any MSM. Huff Post and others have run it citing an interview with NY Daily News. Curious why a respected attorney and politician would do an interview with that rag.

Isn't Todd Rutherford a member of the SC House angela?

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chancellor » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:19 pm

Avola wrote:FYI the officer has been fired. Apparently he was in the habit of slamming students into the ground with no apparent provocation so this was not the first time something like this happened, only the first time it was caught on video. Good riddance. That was definitely out of line.
Was the girl wrong? Yes. But I'm glad this guy was let go as I don't believe violence is a deterrent for anything.



Agreed. This was definitely out of line. There was no need for that amount of violence on his part. However, I hope that the girl was disciplined as well. And I mean, harshly.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby KathyK » Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:44 pm

xhltsalute wrote:While Lott reiterated his belief that the student "started the whole thing"...

"She started it!" Are these adults or 8 year-olds? Children can be naughty, insolent, exasperating, and downright awful at times, but slamming them around like that doesn't help them. If a parent was seen inflicting physical violence like that on a child, I think there would be harsh consequences. Law enforcement is supposed to be trained to handle situations like these. I don't understand how anyone can defend this (now fired, thank goodness) officer.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby emmalou » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:11 pm

He stated something to the effect of....we must not lose sight that this student initiated this situation by her actions. She is responsible for initiating this action.... And he absolutely did not defend the officer. Quite the opposite.

There is nothing about what he said that is not true. She defiantly refused the instructions/orders from a teacher, administrator and then a police officer. Should she have been ripped out of her desk and thrown across a room? Absolutely not, but she's 16, not 8. We all need to be accountable for our actions and understand our role in situations so we can learn and grow.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby xhltsalute » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:16 pm

Mother and G.mother are alive, per her attorney today.

https://soundcloud.com/joemadisonthe...e-madison-show

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby xhltsalute » Thu Oct 29, 2015 9:23 pm

emmalou wrote:He stated something to the effect of....we must not lose sight that this student initiated this situation by her actions.


Ultimately it doesn't matter if she "initiated the situation".

"...the maneuvers used on the girl were a flagrant violation of the department's policy. "The student was not a danger and Officer Ben Fields treated her as if she was a physical danger,"


The SRO was supposed to be the trained adult. Obviously he failed miserably this time and at other times by virtue of the fact he has multiple law suits against him.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby emmalou » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:29 pm

All I've seen is that he was sued years ago by a couple for excessive force and other things. The jury ruled in favor of the officer. He currently is being sued along with the district and numerous others by a student who claims he was unlawfully expelled.

It doesn't matter if her actions initiated the over the top behavior of the officer. Her behavior certainly does matter though. I read an article claiming this was perfectly normal teenage behavior. That's a big load of bull puckey.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby xhltsalute » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:19 am

It doesn't matter if her actions initiated the over the top behavior of the officer.


It most certainly does!!!!!! Again......."The student was not a danger and Officer Ben Fields treated her as if she was a physical danger," Lott added.

Pretty much boils down to this. Given the speed he was fired they knew they could not spin it IMO. No she was not a danger to anyone & the deputy was not in fear for his life.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby WheresMyWhite » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:28 am

xhltsalute wrote:No she was not a danger to anyone & the deputy was not in fear for his life.


??

In fear for one's life typically justifies the use of lethal force which neither applies in this case...

IMO, she was a danger to herself and others with her behavior. Would you have wanted to try to deal with her?

I have said before, I cannot justify LE's behavior (and obviously neither could they) but she was being, IMO, obnoxious and resistive.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby xhltsalute » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:40 am

It appeared the girl struck out at the officer, but after rewatching it several times it seemed obvious to me that she was actually flailing in response to being grabbed and was not consciously aiming punches at the officer.

But here's the thing. Even if she HAD been hitting at him, it is HIS responsibility to remain calm and control the situation without causing harm to the student.

Not only is he the adult in the situation, he is a law enforcement professional specifically trained, according to Sheriff Lott, to work in that environment.

If people cannot recognize that literally EVERYTHING this officer did from the moment that he placed his hands on that child is wrong, then they're either an idiot, a racist, a misogynist, or all three.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Snork » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:04 am

I don't know where we have gone wrong but something is turning in the society, and i think it has to do with raising very entitled kids. I don't know why, and i don't understand it, but i see it all around me, seemingly normal parents raising their kids to think rules do not apply to them.

My kids go to a private school with a well earned reputation of "the academic school." Not the "society" school, not the "old money" school, and not the "free for all as long as you pay" school (and we have all of those where i live) - nope, this one prides itself on their "kids will work hard and behave" mantra. You'd think it would attract the parent who looks for that kind of rigorous environment for their child - and it does seem to attract self-made highly educated, high achiever parents. Somehow, the discipline they apply to themselves does not always translate down to the kids. There are some fantastic families and then there are some ... As an illustration, during one of the "wine and cheese, adults only " evenings at school, I ran into my youngest girl's five-year old classmate. I was just annoyed enough that when she asked "Where is Snorkelette?" I responded with "This is an adults only event honey, Snorkelette was not invited." To which the girls parent nonchalantly commented "oh, we know, we know, but she just really wanted to come." Shocking as it might be, she was not the only kid there, at an event very, very, very clearly advertised as adults only, with self-serve alcohol.

Do you think these parents will side with the principal when the darling does not obey the rules at school? And why should she obey in the first place, when she's been raised to believe they do not apply in the first place? I shudder to think how the kids in the freely advertised entitlement schools behave.

emmalou
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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby emmalou » Fri Oct 30, 2015 1:35 am

Why can't we call them both out for their atrocious behavior? Yes, the officer is an adult and in a position of power so IMO his behavior was exponentially more atrocious. However, her behavior was also atrocious. Being yanked out of her chair and thrown across the room does not all of a sudden make her behavior okay.

Perhaps they fired him because they were as appalled as many of us and he violated policy, not that they didn't think they could spin it.

CanadianTrotter
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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby CanadianTrotter » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:43 am

xhltsalute wrote:
If people cannot recognize that literally EVERYTHING this officer did from the moment that he placed his hands on that child is wrong, then they're either an idiot, a racist, a misogynist, or all three.



Where's that "like" button others are talking about?

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby carpevita » Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:20 am

emmalou wrote:Why can't we call them both out for their atrocious behavior? Yes, the officer is an adult and in a position of power so IMO his behavior was exponentially more atrocious. However, her behavior was also atrocious. Being yanked out of her chair and thrown across the room does not all of a sudden make her behavior okay.

Perhaps they fired him because they were as appalled as many of us and he violated policy, not that they didn't think they could spin it.



Agreed, the girl bears responsibility for initiating the conflict. My question is this--who is teaching her to disrespect her teachers? Who taught her that it is ok to be so defiant and disruptive?

Obviously the officer over reacted in a big way, perhaps if I were the teacher I may have removed my entire class rather than deal with the kid who was causing the problem.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chancellor » Fri Oct 30, 2015 12:38 pm

That's a good idea Carpevita....removing the class. Although, where to go?

I said it before earlier in the thread. This is the generation of no losers...only winners and trophies for participation. This is not a healthy environment for children because it is NOT indicative of the real world. There will always be winners and therefore losers.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chisamba » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:15 pm

I work with people with behavior disorders, in other words at times they can be a danger to themselves and others.

I am trained in restraining techniques and when it is appropriate to use them. Having, on multiple occasions single handed restrained and brought down a level four person younger and stronger than me in a psych rage, I can with actual experience day that there were multiple ways to deal with that girl that did not included aggression, violence, or negative emotion.

I can say it with the experience of one who has had to lay hands on a person to restrain then from harming themselves and others.

This situation was not about restraint and enforcing compliance, this was aggressive .

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby angela9823 » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:18 pm

Chisamba wrote:This situation was not about restraint and enforcing compliance, this was aggressive .
That is what another friend has said on FB now as well. She was a security person/detainer person at a retirement home for mentally challenged. She worked as a security guard at a prison prior to that. She said that the first thing they are taught there is to NOT use aggression against inmates. You do and you find yourself in a corner one day. I would have thought the opposite actually. But she said they are taught other ways first even to the point of ignoring bad behavior so you don't incite violence on the other end.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby WheresMyWhite » Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:49 pm

Chancellor wrote:I said it before earlier in the thread. This is the generation of no losers...only winners and trophies for participation. This is not a healthy environment for children because it is NOT indicative of the real world. There will always be winners and therefore losers.


I agree completely. I don't agree with what the SRO did at all. It was uncalled for, ineffective and inappropriate and disciplinary action has already been taken.

It does not excuse the student's behavior. As Chisamba and angel9823 have said, "resistive" behavior can be a danger to themselves or others. People can get hurt. There were better ways to handle it but I also don't think allowing the student to have a physical meltdown isn't appropriate either.

LE that work in jails and prisons can, yes, learn to be "bullies" but they also can learn (because I've witnessed the results on the street) how to deal with inmates when it is 1 or 2 LE supervising 90-100 inmates. They learn how to work with the inmates, not against them. They learn how to de-escalate verbally. It can be done.

Good LE are good at their jobs. Bad LE gives them all a bad name.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chancellor » Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:27 pm

And the Good LE rarely make the news. Only the bad ones.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby KathyK » Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:31 pm

Good LEOs should not make the news. Extraordinarily good acts by LEOs should, and often do, make the news.

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Re: Where we have failed....

Postby Chancellor » Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:48 pm

KathyK wrote:Good LEOs should not make the news. Extraordinarily good acts by LEOs should, and often do, make the news.


My point is not that good LEOs should make the news. My point is that the bad ones do make the news and people tend to remember the bad.....not that there are thousands of very good LEOs doing a great job every day.


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