What changed? USA and guns

carpevita
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What changed? USA and guns

Postby carpevita » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:47 pm

So in an effort to quit bickering would anyone like to discuss possible reasons for the extreme gun violence in the recent past?
I'll start.
My theory (one of many) is that many kids are not raised knowing how to use and respect weapons. Not as many kids grow up on farms or in hunting households and do not have the same level of unconscious competency that they might otherwise have.
Sort of like how the kids of fishermen aren't squeamish about fish guts.
Meanwhile, most kids also spent a ton of time playing violent video games--so perhaps the combination grows a certain type of person who sees the glamour of video violence but has no real life comparison.

I also wonder about the effects of years of mental health medication, artificial food ingredients, vaccine ingredients, antibiotics, etc etc.

What do you think?

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby outsiderein » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:43 pm

I'll play.

I agree with much of what you have said (not so sure about the link to vaccine ingredients, which have not changed substantially over 40-50 years).

I also think anger is a big one. I think a lot of Americans are angry, and because it is pretty darn easy to get a gun (background checks are only useful for people who have already done something of high concern), and a gun is SO effective, it becomes their tool of choice to make their statement to the world. But the American anger isn't just the realm of mass murderers. It shows in our politics as well. Why are so many Americans angry? Because even if they aren't particularly aware of it, their economic prospects have dimmed. And this is especially true for those with little education and who live in economically depressed areas. Good jobs have been transferred overseas, and tax dollars have been funneled into expensive wars rather than into our own economy. I think there is a lot of hopelessness, especially among the young. College tuition is now so high due to lack of public funding, that the debt incurred offsets the economic advantage of having a degree. These become people who feel they have nothing to lose.

I hope Code3 chimes in here, because she knows about a lot of new research on who these shooters are and what drives them. I think that will give us more insight into what the underlying causes really are. I don't think any of them can be written off as just plain crazy.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby carpevita » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:56 pm

Thanks so much---I love a discussion which looks for answers!
As for the cause, are most mass shooters lower income?
I know there are a million factors, parsing them out is the challenge.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby WheresMyWhite » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:22 pm

I think it is also the sense of entitlement that many younger people seem to feel. I should have that better grade or the better parking spot or the cutest girl or whatever. It's me. It's mine. It's all about me.

For the younger children, they no longer grow up around guns to learn and *see* how dangerous they are. They don't know what *dead* really means. After all, movies, TV, video games, the hero often comes back to life so death is more of an abstract thought. They've never seen a dead deer or dead turkey. Beef comes shrink wrapped at the store. Cows are an abstract idea that sing and dance on TV.

I am personally not for reporting all people that have mental illnesses as that seems to me to be a violation of their privacy. I would be in favor of stricter reporting requirements with possible criminal charges if someone knows that a person with a mental illness has shown/displayed/vocalized behavior that could be considered a danger to themselves or others.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Tuffytown » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:27 pm

The thing I would disagree with is the sense of entitlement. I think it pervades all age groups and is widespread, not limited to younger people.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby khall » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:55 am

I can relay my personal experience with being raised around guns and raising a son who is now 15 around them. I grew up with guns that were out in the open, hung on racks and displayed as well as knives, bows etc because my dad was an avid hunter for many years. I never saw them as being anything glamorous and have hardly even held a gun. My sister did not get into guns until she became a police officer, she was an excellent marksman and liked the handguns, neither of her girls were interested in guns.

I have a son and I tried to insulate him from guns as a young child but as a boy it was in his genetics and a stick would become a "gun" . So as a youngster he was given a BB gun and was only allowed to shoot it under adult supervision at targets. He also joined cub scouts were safety and responsible gun use is taught. He later graduated to a 22 and now even has a 50 cal muzzle loader that my dad gave to him. He now rarely even shoots anymore, still under adult supervision with safety first and foremost.

I think gun safety and responsibility need to be taught at a young age, and parents need to be aware if the child is responsible enough to handle using a gun. They need to be taught they are not toys and to never point one at a person. They are not used to kill indiscriminately, only if hunting to put food on the table. DS has never hunted though he has expressed an interest at one point in doing so.

I do agree guns are too accessible and easy to come by, I am for more stringent background checks and waiting periods. I do feel certain guns have no business on the open market ie assault rifles. I do not want to arm teachers, open carry is silly to me unless you are in a rural area that you need it for protection (Alaska for bears being one) don't bring your pistol to Kroger for goodness sake! The produce won't jump up and bite you! I don't think the average joe blow carrying a gun has the necessary training to make life and death decisions with that gun.

Gun control is just so complex here in the US but it definitely needs to be looked at under a microscope and with open discussions.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Chancellor » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:12 am

WheresMyWhite wrote:I think it is also the sense of entitlement that many younger people seem to feel. I should have that better grade or the better parking spot or the cutest girl or whatever. It's me. It's mine. It's all about me.

For the younger children, they no longer grow up around guns to learn and *see* how dangerous they are. They don't know what *dead* really means. After all, movies, TV, video games, the hero often comes back to life so death is more of an abstract thought. They've never seen a dead deer or dead turkey. Beef comes shrink wrapped at the store. Cows are an abstract idea that sing and dance on TV.

I am personally not for reporting all people that have mental illnesses as that seems to me to be a violation of their privacy. I would be in favor of stricter reporting requirements with possible criminal charges if someone knows that a person with a mental illness has shown/displayed/vocalized behavior that could be considered a danger to themselves or others.


Damn, where's that like button when you need it?? :lol: :lol:

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Figgy » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:00 pm

artificial food ingredients are responsible for gun violence?

that's a new one

I thought that people shooting other people with guns was the issue?

next you'll be telling me that vaccinating your children against childhood diseases such as whooping cough and polio causes gun violence.

Yes, there is a cultural aspect.

Years ago I watched an old black and white western, an American western, and the story was about a sheriff dealing with the baddie coming into town - in this western, the sheriff solves the problem through talking to people, arresting the person, rule of law and communication

In a modern western there is so much dramatized gun violence that its almost pornography, the gun is sexy, the actors do all sorts of amazing tricks with their bodies, there's lots of yelling and bullying behaviours and not a lot of rule of law - I wonder if guns and solving problems with a gun has become too much of a cliché in society?

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby carpevita » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:42 pm

figgy this discussion is an attempt to suss out what has changed (if anything) in the recent past which might give a clue to this behavior.
nothing is sacred when thinking and asking the question imho.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby KathyK » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:33 pm

This piece by Malcolm Gladwell sheds some important light on the subject of the epidemic school shootings.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/ ... l_facebook

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby outsiderein » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:40 pm

Tuffytown wrote:The thing I would disagree with is the sense of entitlement. I think it pervades all age groups and is widespread, not limited to younger people.

I'm not sure that is the case. I worked (recently retired) on a college campus, and I frequently heard faculty talk about how stressful it was to deal with the expectations of some students that they were entitled to an A even when their work was sub-par. In the interest of building self esteem they have been told all their lives that everything they do is GREAT!!! They cannot handle any suggestion that they are anything else. Nor can their parents. Faculty are under a lot of pressure to keep parents happy so that the university doesn't lose an income source. I heard this from many, many faculty members, a fair number of whom have been teaching for more than a decade. So although entitled people have always existed, I think it is more pervasive and widespread now than it was before. I think faculty also live in fear of retribution, and disgruntled students with access to firearms. We had one scare, and the reaction was telling.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Tuffytown » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:55 pm

But if the parents are acting this way as well then the entitlement is not just the young people. I agree is is an increasing problem but entitled kids come from entitled parents.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby WheresMyWhite » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:56 pm

Figgy wrote:In a modern western there is so much dramatized gun violence that its almost pornography, the gun is sexy, the actors do all sorts of amazing tricks with their bodies, there's lots of yelling and bullying behaviours and not a lot of rule of law - I wonder if guns and solving problems with a gun has become too much of a cliché in society?


For light entertainment... count the number of shots in an TV show that the actors get off without a reload. Revolvers are pretty much 6 shots (with a few exceptions). Semi-auto, usually 19-21 shots before a reload (depends on caliber and actual manufacturer/model). Leaves me often thinking "seriously" :) when I see some of the Hollywood nonsense.

But, nonsense like the Hollywood portrayal of guns and body armor does the public no good in terms of building false expectations and understandings. Same with crime scene investigation... you just can't get fingerprints off a brick chimney.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby WheresMyWhite » Wed Oct 14, 2015 2:57 pm

Tuffytown wrote:But if the parents are acting this way as well then the entitlement is not just the young people. I agree is is an increasing problem but entitled kids come from entitled parents.


Or entitled kids come from parents that weren't themselves entitled but want to give their children a better life than they had...

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Tuffytown » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:13 pm

Isn't that every parents goal? My depression era parents certainly gave me a much better life than they had. Giving me a sense of personal responsibility and humility was also very important them.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby outsiderein » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:12 pm

KathyK wrote:This piece by Malcolm Gladwell sheds some important light on the subject of the epidemic school shootings.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/ ... l_facebook

That is an excellent analysis. Scary, but excellent. Oddly enough, I lived in Waseca for a time. It is hard to imagine something so heinous happening there.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby saltheart » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:47 pm

While I agree with most of what has been posted heretofore, and I really applaud carpe's attempt to have a good discussion without all the vitriol (yes, I am guilty of it too) that accompanies most discussions on the topic, I am not sure that any of the current problems with shootings in the US can be solved by figuring out the why of it. For one thing, we may never figure out why it happens or why it seems to be on the upswing. I'm not sure it really is on the upswing - when you think about it, in the past we had a smaller population and we didn't have a 24 hr. news cycle. So this sort of thing may have been going on more than we realize. You can find school shootings going back to the 1800's in the US. We are 300,000,000+ now, so logically we are going to have more nuts going off. I think there is an "entitled" generation coming up. Participation trophies, anyone? But I don't see how believing that the world owes you everything your little heart desires is in any way correlated to killing people randomly. I also don't think movies and video games are to blame. Maybe in some instances, where the perp has serious mental issues or is too young to understand the difference between fantasy and reality. But when I was very small, all the boys played "cowboys and Indians" and had toy guns. Their heroes shot the crap out of all the bad guys (and never seemed to reload). There was more death and destruction in Saturday morning cartoons than there is in a lot of video games. Yet, these people did not grow up to become mass murderers.

My father had hand guns and I never, ever recall seeing one in the house. When I was 10, my dad took us to the rifle range and we learned to shoot bb guns. Had we expressed any interest, we would have graduated to .22's and beyond. Mostly, we were there to learn gun safety. I was an excellent shot, BTW. I don't have anything against sport (target) shooting, hunting within the law or any of the legal uses of personal firearms.

I think a whole lot of these things would stop, or at a minimum be greatly reduced if the US adopted laws similar to those in Australia or the UK. Knowing why, which we never really will, will change nothing if the culture does not change. Just MHO. Salty

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby boots-aregard » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:59 am

Have to break off some time to read Malcolm Gladwell's article, but I just wanted to pop in to say...

We have to be aware that there are several different TYPES of gun violence and the reasons therefore (and solutions thereof) may be quite different.

For example:

Drug lords and gang violence probably don't have the same rationale and cures as disaffected, loner, white-male massacres.

Also, kids killing people from unsecured, loaded guns probably won't have a whole lot of overlap with the first two subsets.

So, be aware when discussing "gun culture" that you're probably talking about a subset.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby WheresMyWhite » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:20 am

Boots-aregard, a very true statement.

Fixing the "gun problem" is not a single solution short of taking them all away and as many of you insist, that won't happen...

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby CanadianTrotter » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:22 am

WheresMyWhite wrote:I am personally not for reporting all people that have mental illnesses as that seems to me to be a violation of their privacy. I would be in favor of stricter reporting requirements with possible criminal charges if someone knows that a person with a mental illness has shown/displayed/vocalized behavior that could be considered a danger to themselves or others.



If you have educated yourself about mentl illness then you would know that anyone with a mental illness can slip into a psychotic state, especially if they partake of any drugs or alcohol.

How can a person with a mental illness that has shown/displayed/vocalized behaviour that could be considered a danger to themselves or others be enforced with stricter reporting requirements? On the hopes, good graces and honesty of someone reporting their behaviour if they have actually shown it?

I guess if you've been diagnosed with depression all I would have to do is report you to the gun authorities if I perceived you to be a danger to yourself or others?

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby saltheart » Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:54 pm

"Fixing the "gun problem" is not a single solution short of taking them all away and as many of you insist, that won't happen..." Yeah, but the concept sure seems to scare you. And "fixing the gun problem" has been an overwhelming success in Australia. Why can't you admit that we've never tried it, so you have no clue whether or not it will work? We've tried everything else and it is time. Sorry that inconveniences you.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby WheresMyWhite » Fri Oct 16, 2015 3:46 pm

saltheart wrote:"Why can't you admit that we've never tried it, so you have no clue whether or not it will work?


You are right, we haven't tried it - we being the USA.

Clearly death by guns would go down assuming that it would be possible/feasible to get a relatively large percentage of guns off the streets.

Then there would be no going back to what was or even a mid-ground ... they'd be gone for good. I personally am not willing to support that approach.

Part of me still believes that one of the reasons the founding fathers made an amendment addressing arming the populace was their recent history with an oppressive government.

Do I think our government is oppressive now? No, I don't. Do I think they could sure become that way if society wasn't armed, the thought had crossed my mind...

You are more than welcome to call me an idiot or a whack job or whatever you like - I believe what I believe and your opinion of me makes no difference to me...

PS - and for the most part, the 'you' above is not directed at saltheart but the larger, global you... :)

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby KathyK » Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:49 pm

WheresMyWhite wrote:Part of me still believes that one of the reasons the founding fathers made an amendment addressing arming the populace was their recent history with an oppressive government.

An oppressive government that was not their own. There's a big difference between "arming the populace" and a well-regulated militia. I don't understand why you can't wee that.

WheresMyWhite wrote:Do I think our government is oppressive now? No, I don't. Do I think they could sure become that way if society wasn't armed, the thought had crossed my mind...

Paranoia. Besides, what good do you think "society's" hand guns will do against the tanks and chemical weapons the government has at its disposal?

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Figgy » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:29 pm

WheresMyWhite wrote:
Figgy wrote:In a modern western there is so much dramatized gun violence that its almost pornography, the gun is sexy, the actors do all sorts of amazing tricks with their bodies, there's lots of yelling and bullying behaviours and not a lot of rule of law - I wonder if guns and solving problems with a gun has become too much of a cliché in society?


For light entertainment... count the number of shots in an TV show that the actors get off without a reload. Revolvers are pretty much 6 shots (with a few exceptions). Semi-auto, usually 19-21 shots before a reload (depends on caliber and actual manufacturer/model). Leaves me often thinking "seriously" :) when I see some of the Hollywood nonsense.

But, nonsense like the Hollywood portrayal of guns and body armor does the public no good in terms of building false expectations and understandings. Same with crime scene investigation... you just can't get fingerprints off a brick chimney.


why would I want to focus on the number of shots the gun gets off? and yes, I realise most crime scene shows are pure fiction, the characters are constantly whining about their cases being thrown out of court because if real police officers were as shoddy as the ones on tv, they'd be out of a job. The rule of law people.

However - the original point is - culture. What we see on social media and on the tv does influence our perception of normal.

Smoking, I rarely see smoking portrayed in Australian tv, and in the street, less than 15% of Australian's smoke (hopefully we can get rid of smoking altogether one day), I'm always shocked at the portrayal of smoking in international film content. Swearing - Australians swear. A. Lot. Americans who visit are always delighted and horrified at the amount of swearing content in our media. But hey, some of our prime ministers have been dedicated droppers of the F bomb.

Guns as a problem solving method. One thing I notice about a lot of American film content is poor communication and conflict solving skills, and guns. Guns everywhere. Guns are sexy, guns solve problems. This sends a message.

Then, I read about an 11 year old boy who solves the problem of not being able to play with his 8 year old neighbour's puppy by getting mum and dad's gun and shooting her. So, the kid has learned the lesson. Guns solve problems.

I also saw some statistics about the number of deaths each year in the US where the shooter has been 2 years old or less. Mum has left her loaded gun in her handbag and let baby play with her handbag. Dad has left his loaded gun on the lounge while the kids are in the loungeroom. Really?

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby martha sc » Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:05 am

oh, yes, on the 11 PM news just now, in NC today, we have a 2yr old dead from a shotgun blast, gun was on the coffee table at the babysitters, not quit sure how the gun went off by it'sself, since guns don't kill people, people kill people, or what ever the gun nuts think this week. I am so disgusted.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby MaggieMae » Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:11 pm

martha sc wrote:oh, yes, on the 11 PM news just now, in NC today, we have a 2yr old dead from a shotgun blast, gun was on the coffee table at the babysitters, not quit sure how the gun went off by it'sself, since guns don't kill people, people kill people, or what ever the gun nuts think this week. I am so disgusted.


And a few days ago, a women drove a car into a crowd of people at a homecoming parade, killing 4 people and injuring 47 others. One of those that was killed was a 2 year old. Eleven of the injured were 13 years old or younger. It appears intentional on the drivers part. It has been on the news, but there is no screaming frothing outrage from people that children are dead. A two year old child is dead. Because some crazy person chose to kill them.

How long would it have taken for a thread to have been started here if that women had used a gun? I would say about 5 seconds. I guess it only matters when people are killed with guns. Other forms of murder of children are okay. :roll:

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Chancellor » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:38 pm

MaggieMae wrote:
And a few days ago, a women drove a car into a crowd of people at a homecoming parade, killing 4 people and injuring 47 others. One of those that was killed was a 2 year old. Eleven of the injured were 13 years old or younger. It appears intentional on the drivers part. It has been on the news, but there is no screaming frothing outrage from people that children are dead. A two year old child is dead. Because some crazy person chose to kill them.

How long would it have taken for a thread to have been started here if that women had used a gun? I would say about 5 seconds. I guess it only matters when people are killed with guns. Other forms of murder of children are okay. :roll:


Everyone has their hot button topic...plus the media sensationalizes gun topics so it makes the news more so than the story above.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby MaggieMae » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:59 pm

Chancellor wrote:
MaggieMae wrote:
And a few days ago, a women drove a car into a crowd of people at a homecoming parade, killing 4 people and injuring 47 others. One of those that was killed was a 2 year old. Eleven of the injured were 13 years old or younger. It appears intentional on the drivers part. It has been on the news, but there is no screaming frothing outrage from people that children are dead. A two year old child is dead. Because some crazy person chose to kill them.

How long would it have taken for a thread to have been started here if that women had used a gun? I would say about 5 seconds. I guess it only matters when people are killed with guns. Other forms of murder of children are okay. :roll:


Everyone has their hot button topic...plus the media sensationalizes gun topics so it makes the news more so than the story above.


True. I just find it interesting that there has been discussions as to what is the problem behind "gun violence". Some have suggested it might be a societal or mental illness issue. Or anger issue. Many people come back and say it is all due to guns and if guns are banned, problem solved. The fact that this women ran into a crowd of people with her car suggests that maybe it isn't just guns. The investigation is ongoing, but they are questioning if the women has a mental ilness problem. That she seemed very deliberate in wanting to do harm to other people. So why are the people that are so afraid of being shot walking across a parking lot, not afraid of being run down by a someone with a weapon that is just as lethal. Why are people so upset that a kids are shot by a "crazy" person, but seemingly not so upset that kids were run over by a "crazy" person. Innocent kids are dead either way.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Chancellor » Tue Oct 27, 2015 7:28 pm

I think the answer to America's "Gun Problem" is some combination of stricter laws and better access to mental health counseling. Maybe more anger management for everyone.
9/11 was carried out without a single gun.

Bad people will do bad however they can do it. Maybe America the Free is TOO free?

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby CanadianTrotter » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:35 pm

MaggieMae wrote: So why are the people that are so afraid of being shot walking across a parking lot, not afraid of being run down by a someone with a weapon that is just as lethal. Why are people so upset that a kids are shot by a "crazy" person, but seemingly not so upset that kids were run over by a "crazy" person. Innocent kids are dead either way.


Because there are much fewer numbers of clear and intentional killings by cars than there are by guns?

I'm curious... is it more difficult to obtain, own and insure a car in the US than a gun?

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Chancellor » Wed Oct 28, 2015 1:51 pm

CanadianTrotter wrote:
MaggieMae wrote: So why are the people that are so afraid of being shot walking across a parking lot, not afraid of being run down by a someone with a weapon that is just as lethal. Why are people so upset that a kids are shot by a "crazy" person, but seemingly not so upset that kids were run over by a "crazy" person. Innocent kids are dead either way.


Because there are much fewer numbers of clear and intentional killings by cars than there are by guns?

I'm curious... is it more difficult to obtain, own and insure a car in the US than a gun?


No. It is far easier to get a car than a gun.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby CanadianTrotter » Wed Oct 28, 2015 2:05 pm

Chancellor wrote:
CanadianTrotter wrote:
MaggieMae wrote: So why are the people that are so afraid of being shot walking across a parking lot, not afraid of being run down by a someone with a weapon that is just as lethal. Why are people so upset that a kids are shot by a "crazy" person, but seemingly not so upset that kids were run over by a "crazy" person. Innocent kids are dead either way.


Because there are much fewer numbers of clear and intentional killings by cars than there are by guns?

I'm curious... is it more difficult to obtain, own and insure a car in the US than a gun?


No. It is far easier to get a car than a gun.


The driver's application/test is easier and less complicated to pass than a gun application/test?

Is the liability insurance for a car the same as a gun?

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Chancellor » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:08 pm

Any bozo who can pass a driver's license test can drive a car. In order to legally get a gun, one has to pass a background check. I believe some states require a firearm safety course as well.

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby WheresMyWhite » Wed Oct 28, 2015 3:42 pm

CanadianTrotter wrote:Is the liability insurance for a car the same as a gun?


In theory, every driver should have liability insurance. Yes, you can get it, you just might have to pay dearly for it. In practice, there are drivers with no insurance.

Someone else said they were tired of the gun/car analogies...

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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Tabby » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:13 pm

Chancellor wrote:
CanadianTrotter wrote:
MaggieMae wrote: So why are the people that are so afraid of being shot walking across a parking lot, not afraid of being run down by a someone with a weapon that is just as lethal. Why are people so upset that a kids are shot by a "crazy" person, but seemingly not so upset that kids were run over by a "crazy" person. Innocent kids are dead either way.


Because there are much fewer numbers of clear and intentional killings by cars than there are by guns?

I'm curious... is it more difficult to obtain, own and insure a car in the US than a gun?


No. It is far easier to get a car than a gun.

Seriously? How then did Adam Lanza and his mother get all those guns? Whatever background checks they took were clearly useless. They sell guns in Walmart. Canadians go down to the US to buy guns and smuggle them up here without having a single piece of identification or history in the US from which to do a background check on. On the flip side, cars have to be registered and insured - something difficult to do if you had your license suspended for some violation or another, or if the car you wanted to buy failed to pass safety or emissions. And you have to renew that license periodically to keep driving your car and it can be taken away for any number of traffic violations.

I know someone said they were tired of the gun/car comparisons because there is rarely any intent to kill with a car. True enough. So why is the car so heavily regulated and the gun is not?

Chancellor
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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby Chancellor » Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:29 pm

So, just because you DON'T have a license or insurance, doesn't stop people from driving. All of what I said assumes that people are law-abiding. And many are not. People continue to drive cars that have failed safety checks etc.

I'm not sure how stringent the background check is for people to own guns (since I don't have one).

I will tell you this story though:
A few years ago, my neighbor's 14 yo son (16 is the age where you can get your learner's permit to start driving with supervision), came home with a friend and no parents were home. They decided to start making some french fries and put the oil on the stove to heat. Well, they then decided to take his dad's car out for a joyride. I'm sure you can see where this is going. The oil overheated and the entire house burnt down. It was a total loss. I mean NOTHING was saved (well except for the Dad's car).
Fast forward a few years. I heard that the parents of this kid got the kid a gun to go target shooting at the gun club which is up the street. In whose mind is this a good idea???
I support better background checks for gun ownership because no way should this kid have access to a gun.

KathyK
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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby KathyK » Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:34 pm

Chancellor wrote:
CanadianTrotter wrote:
MaggieMae wrote: So why are the people that are so afraid of being shot walking across a parking lot, not afraid of being run down by a someone with a weapon that is just as lethal. Why are people so upset that a kids are shot by a "crazy" person, but seemingly not so upset that kids were run over by a "crazy" person. Innocent kids are dead either way.


Because there are much fewer numbers of clear and intentional killings by cars than there are by guns?

I'm curious... is it more difficult to obtain, own and insure a car in the US than a gun?


No. It is far easier to get a car than a gun.

The average car costs thousands of dollars; the average gun costs a maybe few hundred. So in that sense, yes, it is far easier to get a gun than a car. There's a current news story about some guy with 10,000 guns. I don't think I've ever read about someone with 10,000 cars.

CanadianTrotter
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Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby CanadianTrotter » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:31 am

Tabby wrote:
Chancellor wrote:
CanadianTrotter wrote:
Because there are much fewer numbers of clear and intentional killings by cars than there are by guns?

I'm curious... is it more difficult to obtain, own and insure a car in the US than a gun?


No. It is far easier to get a car than a gun.

Seriously? How then did Adam Lanza and his mother get all those guns? Whatever background checks they took were clearly useless. They sell guns in Walmart. Canadians go down to the US to buy guns and smuggle them up here without having a single piece of identification or history in the US from which to do a background check on. On the flip side, cars have to be registered and insured - something difficult to do if you had your license suspended for some violation or another, or if the car you wanted to buy failed to pass safety or emissions. And you have to renew that license periodically to keep driving your car and it can be taken away for any number of traffic violations.

I know someone said they were tired of the gun/car comparisons because there is rarely any intent to kill with a car. True enough. So why is the car so heavily regulated and the gun is not?


thank you.

CanadianTrotter
Herd Member
Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:59 pm

Re: What changed? USA and guns

Postby CanadianTrotter » Thu Oct 29, 2015 2:32 am

KathyK wrote:
Chancellor wrote:
CanadianTrotter wrote:
Because there are much fewer numbers of clear and intentional killings by cars than there are by guns?

I'm curious... is it more difficult to obtain, own and insure a car in the US than a gun?


No. It is far easier to get a car than a gun.

The average car costs thousands of dollars; the average gun costs a maybe few hundred. So in that sense, yes, it is far easier to get a gun than a car. There's a current news story about some guy with 10,000 guns. I don't think I've ever read about someone with 10,000 cars.



Thank you.


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