Creaky. What to do?

Topic for older horses and older riders
boots-aregard
Herd Member
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Creaky. What to do?

Postby boots-aregard » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:16 am

Should I do anything about it?

I rode yesterday for probably the first time in 4 weeks and even though I had a good ride I'm sore and creaky today. I have a friend who is 10 years older than I am and she lives on Ibuprophen, but I don't think that's healthy. Is it? On the other hand, I'm rather pill averse in general, so maybe I should consider a little help.

What do the rest of you do when the creakies creak up on you?

User avatar
Fatcat
Herd Member
Posts: 277
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:36 pm
Location: Oregon

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Fatcat » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:21 am

boots-aregard wrote:Should I do anything about it?

I rode yesterday for probably the first time in 4 weeks and even though I had a good ride I'm sore and creaky today. I have a friend who is 10 years older than I am and she lives on Ibuprophen, but I don't think that's healthy. Is it? On the other hand, I'm rather pill averse in general, so maybe I should consider a little help.

What do the rest of you do when the creakies creak up on you?


Ibuprofen can ruin your stomach lining, and according to my doc causes leaky gut. I use Back on track products, voltaren gel for any specific owies, and a hot bath with Epsom salts 8-)
An attitude of gratitude brings opportunites.

TSB
Greenie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 9:54 pm

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby TSB » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:23 am

Ibuprofen is my friend. I don't like to take it too frequently but I will use as needed. If your horse was sore and creaky, wouldn't you want to make him/her feel better?

Linde
Greenie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:57 pm

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Linde » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:54 am

Depends on what part is creaky.

I really got hooked on using ice. After I had an injury, my PT guy revommended icing over heat. I still ice when my shoulders or neck muscles are tense. Haven't tried it on tight hips though, and I've read using ice on lower back muscle can make it seize up even more.

Icing not only cuts down the pain, but also relaxes "trigger" points/muscle spasm.

Other than that, getting some good stretching exercises can help. My PT guy also said to stretch after excercise, not before, it helped with my injury for sure.

demi
500 post plus club
Posts: 929
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby demi » Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:30 am

I get creaky after not riding for a few days but mostly it is tolerable. I try to average at least 4 riding days a week and this keeps the stiffness at a minimum for me. Occasionally i do take naproxen which works for me, but I try to live without if I i can.

i liked the article posted on the training forum about interval training. I try to do an interval training of sorts with my horse Rocky, but since she is only 8 yrs old, her physical needs are quite different than mine (not to mention that she's a horse!!). It's a balancing act at times trying to get our needs in sync but it is paying off as we develop our relationship. I do a trail ride once or twice a week and arena work the rest of the time. Sometimes the trail ride is a lot of trot sets, but other times, like after a hard arena workout, it's just a long walk.

As Rocky matures, she seems to be figuring out that I'm trying to make our work together pleasurable. As we get more in tune the creakiness lessens and that make sense to me.

goldhorse
Herd Member
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:20 am
Location: East Bay, Northern CA

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby goldhorse » Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:27 am

I take Biocell Collagen and magnesium. The collagen has helped with joint pain and the magnesium helps the sore muscles recover. These are my favorite brands:
http://www.amazon.com/Health-Logics-Bio ... l+collagen
http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Vitality- ... +magnesium

Ryans Friend
Greenie
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:50 pm

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Ryans Friend » Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:51 am

What is your usual level of activity? I have wrestled with creakiness for the last 20 years, since my early forties. I have found that greater activity levels lead to less pain and soreness in general. I think the biggest problem I encountered was the 2-3 hour commute daily to work: once that was eliminated, I found that pain decreased and limberness increased. I have also found that cross-training (such as cycling, walking, and free weights) decrease creakiness and increase agility. (I also experimented with Cosequin and Adequan to no avail. ;) )

kande50
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:28 pm
Location: Williamstown, MA

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby kande50 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:00 am

boots-aregard wrote:
What do the rest of you do when the creakies creak up on you?


Rest. I'm not a pill person either, so if I overdo it I just take a day or two off until I feel like getting going again. Some moving around helps, and I have to go out and do chores anyway, but sore muscles make me feel tired so I usually just drag around until I feel better.

gypsy still flies
Greenie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:30 pm

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby gypsy still flies » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:06 am

Hot epsom salt baths really do work. Magnesium gets in and loosens muscles with no adverse effects to digestive track. Topricin and Sport Gel are great topical anti inflammatories. Drinking a lot of water helps lubricate joints more than I thought. A kale smoothie with grapefruit, lemon, lime, pineapple, papaya, ginger, tumeric and fresh ground black pepper fights inflammation. By switching to stirrups with a wider foot bed, I have been less sore and creaky after my rides.

I take 2 Serratia daily and 500 mg Naproxen when needed if all else fails.

User avatar
Chisamba
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1874
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:33 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Chisamba » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:19 am

I am curious, why do you think pain is better for you than shirt term pain relief?

People are different, I have our tolerance for ibuprofen or naproxin. I will however take Tylenol.

Ice is good, at pain relief, warmth is good to prepare for exercise, so v warmth before, ice after

Magnesium, fish oil, etc are useful nutrition additives.

kande50
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:28 pm
Location: Williamstown, MA

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby kande50 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:47 am

Chisamba wrote:I am curious, why do you think pain is better for you than shirt term pain relief?.


For me it's the ying-yang thing. I feel like I need to have down days to appreciate the up days (need to experience sorrow to be able to experience joy, need to balance inactivity with activity) so don't medicate if I don't need to because that interferes with "the way it needs to be". Course that's a lot easier to accomplish now that I'm retired so can give the serotonin receptors as much time as they need to recover. :-)

boots-aregard
Herd Member
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby boots-aregard » Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:02 pm

Interesting question. I was kind of referring to soreness, not actual pain, but to answer the question, I guess I figure pain is the body's way of saying "Don't do that!" and if it's saying don't, maybe I shouldn't? I mean, one of the reasons we don't immediately cut all pain in an animal with an injury is that he'll go out and re-injure himself. The pain slows him down and tells him to lay off. Works the same in people, yes?

Gypsy, I was liking your ideas until you got to kale. KALE???!!!!???!!?! No! ;)

Rhianon
Herd Member
Posts: 311
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:20 pm
Location: Vancouver Island, BC, Canada

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Rhianon » Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:31 pm

Wow! Something on a horse board that I'm an expert at. :lol:

Let's assume your after-work creakiness is the usual combination of sore joints and sore muscles. Maybe some arthritis lurking in the joints.

Thing is, if you are sore you instinctively move less. Then you stiffen up, and things get worse. The trick is to get yourself just comfortable enough to do some light activity--walking or water exercises to keep the joints moving and the muscles strong.

Treat Ibuprofen as the serious drug it is. I totally over-did it for years, and my stomach will never be the same. At this point I can occasionally take 200 mg if I take it with rinitidine. But a little Vitamin I to get you comfy enough to move is a good idea IMO.

For me, warmth (hot tub or bath/shower) then walking on an easy, flat surface helps stiffness a lot. I accept that I will have soreness as a part of life, so I reduce the stress around it. I also do "body scan" meditation--my latest big find in pain management--but that's kind of off in another direction.

Canyon
Herd Member
Posts: 451
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:29 pm
Location: CO

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Canyon » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:46 pm

I have been doing Classical Stretch workouts for a while now. They have really helped to keep my back happy, opened my hips so I don’t notice them when riding, improved my balance, strengthened my abs – can you tell I’m a fan? If I get lazy and don’t do a workout for a few days, my body complains.

Our local PBS station has the program on at an ungodly early hour M – F; I record the episodes and save the one I like. You can also buy her CDs or try some of the mini workouts on the website. Sometimes I need to turn down the volume because Miranda can get to talking about herself or clients :lol: .

boots-aregard
Herd Member
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby boots-aregard » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:53 pm

I should note that I go to the Reflexology place to get the "foot massage" (which is actually an all over light massage) anytime I have $30. More expensive than Ibuprophen, but more wonderful, too.

Montymum
Greenie
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Montymum » Mon Oct 12, 2015 9:52 pm

For general creakiness I use a Turmeric/Oil/Black Pepper mix as per this information: http://www.turmericlife.com.au/ The site was started as a facebook page by an Australian veterinarian, when I joined in April or May last year 35,000 people were following and now it's close to 122,000. Therefore they decided a webpage might be a good idea.
I have now used the mix for more than a year for myself, my 3 horses and our dog and I have only had positive experiences. Other people I have recommended it to have had good success as well.

Recently I lapsed for a while (don't ask me why but I did) and my health went backwards, achy joints in the morning, skin getting worse again etc so I am now back into the routine.

VBOpie
Herd Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 5:56 pm
Location: Southeast Virginia

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby VBOpie » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:25 pm

I agree with Ryan's Friend and Rhiannon - movement is your friend. Yoga, pilates, swimming - once I get going, I feel s-o-o much better. Same thing for our horses - I think our instinct is to decrease their activity, but movement is better - even if it is just walking.

digihorse
Novice
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:41 am

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby digihorse » Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:17 am

I do 3 Aleve (generic) every night. It helps to relieve the inflammation and let me sleep, and THEN I heal. Taking it during the day doesn't help me if I can't sleep. I also found a "better" Magnesium http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00014D5TS/ref ... 98819&sr=0 This is not the standard Magnesium Oxide, but Magnesium Taurate which has a much better absorption rate and a good multi-B vitamin.

bailey
Herd Member
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:42 am
Location: PNW, just outside Emerald City

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby bailey » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:31 am

Great thread, thanks for starting it.... I used to live on 'cowgirl candy' ie ibuprofen. Not good. Now I substitute exercise and especially yoga/Pilates, which has really helped. Like others, I use heat (warm baths) and ice sometimes. I also am able to ride more regularly, as someone else mentioned, which helps. When I remember, stretching before I ride also helps me.

The calmer I am, the stronger I am.

Ryans Friend
Greenie
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:50 pm

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Ryans Friend » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:26 am

As a cyclist and erstwhile gym rat, I used to depend heavily on NSAIDS (i.e. ibuprofen) for pain relief. But think about what research has proven: NSAIDS reduce inflammation. Which is nice. But what leads to muscle growth?? Inflammation. So use of NSAIDS for pain relief is a double-edged sword. Reducing pain may also prevent muscle remodeling. Pain due to joint inflammation (i.e. osteoarthritis) complicates the picture. Getting old sucks.

Chancellor
Site Admin
Posts: 720
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:26 am

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Chancellor » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:54 pm

digihorse wrote:I do 3 Aleve (generic) every night. It helps to relieve the inflammation and let me sleep, and THEN I heal. Taking it during the day doesn't help me if I can't sleep. I also found a "better" Magnesium http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00014D5TS/ref ... 98819&sr=0 This is not the standard Magnesium Oxide, but Magnesium Taurate which has a much better absorption rate and a good multi-B vitamin.



3? Aleve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy crap! That's a ton! Since I was diagnosed with fairly significant arthritis in my knees in my late teens, I also started taking anti inflammatories then too. And stupidly didn't believe them when they said to take them with food. My stomach is now a disaster along WITH my knees!

digihorse
Novice
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:41 am

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby digihorse » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:45 pm

Chancellor wrote:
digihorse wrote:I do 3 Aleve (generic) every night. It helps to relieve the inflammation and let me sleep, and THEN I heal. Taking it during the day doesn't help me if I can't sleep. I also found a "better" Magnesium http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00014D5TS/ref ... 98819&sr=0 This is not the standard Magnesium Oxide, but Magnesium Taurate which has a much better absorption rate and a good multi-B vitamin.



3? Aleve!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Holy crap! That's a ton! Since I was diagnosed with fairly significant arthritis in my knees in my late teens, I also started taking anti inflammatories then too. And stupidly didn't believe them when they said to take them with food. My stomach is now a disaster along WITH my knees!

Not really. They say to take 2. 2 isn't quite enough, so do 3.

Wicky
Herd Member
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 4:50 pm

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Wicky » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:29 pm

The prescription dose of naproxen is 2 tabs TID. Three once a day (if you are not sensitive to it) is probably OK - I say that because I used to do it. Now I don't because I am older. I would not take three if you are 60 or over, or have any kidney problems, or are using topical NSAIDs at the same time.

gypsy still flies
Greenie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:30 pm

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby gypsy still flies » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:52 pm

boots-aregard wrote:
Gypsy, I was liking your ideas until you got to kale. KALE???!!!!???!!?! No! ;)


Boots, you can substitute spinach for the kale if you like spinach better :D .

Josette
500 post plus club
Posts: 823
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:53 pm
Location: NJ

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Josette » Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:20 pm

Movement is critical for me or I get super stiff. Walking helps alot plus trying to get a few pounds off. Aleve for major discomfort. Melatonin if I can't sleep.

Pippigirl
Greenie
Posts: 37
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:57 pm
Location: Eastern Ontario

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Pippigirl » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:56 am

Montymum wrote:For general creakiness I use a Turmeric/Oil/Black Pepper mix as per this information: http://www.turmericlife.com.au/ The site was started as a facebook page by an Australian veterinarian, when I joined in April or May last year 35,000 people were following and now it's close to 122,000. Therefore they decided a webpage might be a good idea.
I have now used the mix for more than a year for myself, my 3 horses and our dog and I have only had positive experiences. Other people I have recommended it to have had good success as well.

Recently I lapsed for a while (don't ask me why but I did) and my health went backwards, achy joints in the morning, skin getting worse again etc so I am now back into the routine.


Interesting about the turmeric. I've been making the golden paste for my horse. She's been getting about 15mL/day. How much do you take a day for yourself?

westisbest
Herd Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:12 pm
Location: S. Alberta

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby westisbest » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:55 pm

Josette wrote:Movement is critical for me or I get super stiff. Walking helps alot plus trying to get a few pounds off. Aleve for major discomfort. Melatonin if I can't sleep.


All of that for me as well. I just started going to a group class "Zen Blend" a mix of yoga, TaiChi and Pilates. My gym has great group classes that are free with the membership. My balance has deteriorated. Have to work on that all the time. I take Melatonin most nights. Sleep is the most healing thing for me. A good 7-8 hours most nights.

demi
500 post plus club
Posts: 929
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby demi » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:46 pm

Agree about the movement. My DH who is 70 started working with a 74 yr old personal trainer (who looks like he's 35!) and it made such a difference in his balance that I started going, too. I can tell the difference after only 8 weeks. The big thing is the trainer pushes us harder than we pushed ourselves. Challenging our bodies(pushing them) seems to be a key at this age

westisbest
Herd Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:12 pm
Location: S. Alberta

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby westisbest » Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:34 am

demi wrote:Agree about the movement. My DH who is 70 started working with a 74 yr old personal trainer (who looks like he's 35!) and it made such a difference in his balance that I started going, too. I can tell the difference after only 8 weeks. The big thing is the trainer pushes us harder than we pushed ourselves. Challenging our bodies(pushing them) seems to be a key at this age


I lost my GSD two years ago October, got thrown off my horse two months after. No injuries to speak of, just as always, hammered my lower back when I landed. So I decided to get back to the gym, felt I needed to strengthen my body plus without beloved dog wasn't walking much, took out a membership and one day when I was limping along on the treadmill lol, a personal trainer stopped me, made me walk for him, told me my gait was out of balance. I signed up for 5 sessions with him. He was fantastic, got me doing stuff I had no idea I could do, running sideways lunges and stuff. Then unfortunately he wasn't able to stay there some issue with his liability insurance. I took a couple of sessons with another trainer but didn't click with her the same.. still have one left in the bank to use. But at least it gave me a bunch of new moves to use. The Bosu ball is great for balance, I try to get on it weekly.

Rooney
Greenie
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:30 am

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Rooney » Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:07 pm

Haven't read all the posts but enough. I'm cruising toward 62! :shock: :shock: I take no pain meds. I take no meds!! I work as a barefoot trimmer and some of my travels are 5 hour one way commutes! That is the hardest thing. Sitting in the car.
I have a personal trainer and I am in a spin class (just because fat is hard to get rid of when your older)!!
I hadn't ridded since April because my riding horse is also a broodmare and she was well along. I started riding her last Wednesday and I'm fine. I think the more you move the better you are.
I spend half of my day bent over horse's feet and the rest in the bloody car! I'm old, I'm rode hard and put away wet, and I work my body to ease. How about that!! The more I exercise/move the better I feel.

I think rehabbing horses feel the same. I do not work on any stalled horses! The more they move the better they do!

Eat well, move and do well! My experience!

Kyra's Mom
Herd Member
Posts: 436
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:04 am
Location: Sunny? Southern Idaho

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby Kyra's Mom » Thu Oct 22, 2015 5:03 am

Creaky...I just seem to be permanently broke :P . I'm not sure I would even be pasture sound if I was a horse which means... :o .

I have had one issue after another for several years. Hysterectomy in 2012 that did not fix the problem that prompted the surgery (chronic tailbone area pain thought to be due to a large sclerosed fibroid) :cry: . At least I don't feel like I am sitting on a rock anymore but it still hurts :P . 2 torn tendons in right foot that I tried to live with for 10 years.I finally found a doc (3rd one is a charm) to listen to me, got the diagnosis and got it repaired in 2013. Then the right hip starts hurting while I am rehabbing the foot. I thought it was soft tissue but it just wouldn't get better. Well it's better now because it is titanium and ceramic (as in replaced Feb of this year).
I have had persistent pain in my left foot that I thought repairing the hip would help...no. Tendonitis and a partially torn tendon in the same damned tendons as the right foot. I spent part of the summer in a cam boot to give it a rest. It is better but not gone by any means.

Anyway, my go-to pain cocktail is either 1-500mg Tylenol w/400mg of ibuprofen or 2-325mg Tylenol with 400mg of ibuprofen. For pain relief, one of my pharmacy publications recommended this combo as working better than either alone. I find that to be true. No, it won't do much for inflammation but I happen to like my stomach, kidneys and liver and try to avoid large doses of either Tylenol or NSAIDS. I occasionally use some Voltaren gel on my left foot.
I'm like digi...IF I can get sleep, I can deal with the day time pain. Any of it usually does improve with movement (except the left foot). Now that the hip is fixed, I have really not needed much in the way of pain relief. I had no idea how lame I was until it didn't hurt anymore.

I too need to find someone that will do some gait analysis and help straighten out my walking...at least as much as the issues will allow. Darned father (I inherited his feet). Of all the physical therapy I have had, none of them have suggested that. I guess just working on the part that PT was prescribed for? I really want to work on stuff over the winter so I can really RIDE next spring.

Susan

demi
500 post plus club
Posts: 929
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby demi » Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:50 am

Kyra's Mom wrote:Creaky...I just seem to be permanently broke :P . ... I guess just working on the part that PT was prescribed for? I really want to work on stuff over the winter so I can really RIDE next spring.

Susan


You really have a lot to deal with but you seem very systematic about it! I sure hope you are able to "really RIDE" in the spring because I want to see more pictures of you and your "ballerina". I very much enjoyed your post in the "tell us about YOU thread". Your horse is just beautiful (I have a soft spot for mares). The picture of you riding her looks like real dressage to me...harmonious, energetic, and carefully developed.

boots-aregard
Herd Member
Posts: 438
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:47 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby boots-aregard » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:31 pm

Well, after one of the heavy yard-work days, I was staying over with my daughter, and was SO MISERABLY STIFF after watching Project Runway (just sitting on the couch) that I could hardly walk to the bathroom. She promptly dosed me with Advil. Went to bed, felt a whole lot better in the morning.

So maybe the sleep + pill contingent are on to something. Either that, or it was my 5-year-old granddaughter's foot rub. (If she wants to stay up after her bedtime, she has to rub somebody. That's the rule!)

I haven't been THAT stiff in a really long time. It's astounding in some ways how terribly non-functional the human body can become. (Still haven't hunted down Tumeric, and am still shaking my head over that kale suggestion. Kale, my goodness. What are you thinking?)

fireantranch
Greenie
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:51 pm
Location: Georgetown, TX
Contact:

Re: Creaky. What to do?

Postby fireantranch » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:42 pm

Two Naproxen in the evening if I remember and I do very well. Love the soaks in the tub too. I still take Ibuprofen for headaches and immediate pain relief - 3 at a time on doctor's advice! I have a cast iron stomach, I will admit. My job involves lots of distance driving (fiber art shows, not a truck driver :)), and the riding keeps me sane and in relatively good physical shape in between. 62 (sigh - wish I could reverse the digits).


Return to “Senior Horses/Senior Riders”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests