Goals and progress:. June and July.

[Rosie B]

Holy crap Flight. You say it's not fantastic. I disagree. HUGE improvement in the trot especially at the beginning after the half pass. Watch your weight in the HP (but I'm sure you noticed that too). He's way more active behind and is really starting to develop some lift and cadence!!! Go back and watch your videos from even 6 months ago and then watch this again.

[khall]

I can't watch it for some reason!! Argh

[Flight]

Thanks Rosie, yes he is what you've said but I'm now starting to be out of the point I've ever got to before! I haven't taken him to my instructor for over a week (weather) so I'll have to start getting more direction now, so I don't wreck it.
To me it looks like my weight is going to the outside in the HP? Yes, I noticed that and it happens not just in lateral work. My left leg is a good inch longer than my right and I think I brace a bit with it and push my bum over.

Khall, is the link now working?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Plw8Pz5Xs

[khall]

Yes, link is working and Wow!! fabulous work! Really showing good cadence in his trot and his canter and FCs look so good. Great job Flight!

I do have a couple of questions: Is his name really dingaling? There has to be a story behind the name. Also what is his and your young horse's breeding? I have not figured Ding out and I am guessing young horse is a WB?

Flight I have to say it is so fun to see someone working on very similar style of work that I have been taught but half a world away! Makes the world seem smaller.

[Ryeissa]

.

[Flight]

Khall - his name is really Deon, but I've had him since he was a weanling and he was very cute and silly (still is) and he just became Dingaling. He's rising 7 and is a Friesian cross Thoroughbred My other horse is a Andalusion cross WB.
Yes, it is cool to hear of others doing the same riding, especially as I'm still very new at it. In the end it's all after the same stuff, just different emphasis on how to get there.

Ryeissa - sounds like your new saddle is making life much easier for you! Love a good sitting trot

Ding as a yearling - always up to mischief

155088_458160739631_856706_n.jpg (74.37 KiB) Viewed 25389 times

[Kyra's Mom]

I have been having very nice rides on my girl. Kind of few and far between but for the most part is very steady.

Tonight I even got a really nice consistent baby half pass to the right. Left isn't as good (surprise...not).

I finally contacted the saddle shop in WA about the Prestige with the butt hole . I am in line for her demo saddle that she just got last week. That is exciting.

Happy riding all.

Susan

[Chisamba]

Kimba is just on an upswing. Developing collection, better balance, cleaner transitions, more even connection.

Acacia is more relaxed and elastic but likes to work to long and low,. We are beginning to develop lateral work to improve balance.

Deneb is having a witchy week,. Not spooky, just pushing boundaries.

[demi]

Keep the updates coming! I appreciate hearing about what everyone's doing. I also appreciated the encouraging words from so many of you when I posted pics of Emma. Thanks!

I've changed my program with Em a bit since I got pics taken. I have had three rides since picture day (Monday). I hate to sound like a broken record but I will repeat the basic program for my own sake: Short rein (#2 stop), forward, lot's of change in direction and gait. In addition, I quit using spurs, I lengthend my stirrups one hole, and I'm determined to get my core engaged.

Today all I did was trot in 20m circles and full arena while I stretched my legs down, rolled my thighs in, and tucked my seat, and engaged my core. I also, held the reins in the outside hand and pulled myself into the saddle with my inside hand on the grab strap, alternating between holding my self in with the grab strap and holding the horse with my core. I need to get away from using my legs for my own security and get back to letting them hang/hug softly. It was a little scary given my age and Emma's occasional big spooks. But I know from experience, the best place to be when a big spook occurs it DEEP in the saddle...I have to keep that in mind while my body re-adjusts.

I've read quite a few of the old masters and one thing they all say and it sticks in my head, is that once the correct basics are established, the advanced work follows easily. So my main goal for the rest of June and July, is to work on seat and position. That is all...

[demi]

I keep checking to see if the Soloshot 3 is any closer to shipping. It sounds like several of us may get it and that will make this thread even more interesting!

Flight, Ding looks good. I saw you leaning to the right in half-pass as Rosie pointed out and you saw, too, but the half-pass still looked good! Personally, when I engage my core correctly (and it's HARD work to do it right!), the whole problem of collapsing or leaning to one side of the other solves itself. You mentioned having one leg shorter but I don't think that's much of a problem. I have scoliosis in my lower spine which showed up when I started having bone densitity screenings. I have always had to stretch my right leg longer in order to even things out. It's fairly easily worked around.

[Flight]

Thanks Demi, I will try that today (engaging core more) to try and stop the lean

[Rosie B]

I can't believe we're less than 2 weeks in and already have 2 pages!! It's nice to have such an active thread.

Yesterday I had my last ride until after baby. I was going to stop today, but we had a good ride yesterday so I'm fine to stop there. I video'd so I'd have something to keep me going over the next few months. I did my best to get a little bit of everything we're working on, but it's not all as good as it could be... But there's medium trots, LY, SI, Tr, HP, collected canter, w/c/w, t/h/t, collected trot, and some walk pirouettes, if you manage to sit through all 7 minutes. lol. I was quite pleased with some parts... but the laterals weren't super. I think by the time I got there he was a little tired so couldn't carry through as well with the hinds so they are really baby laterals but I am still pleased as there is no loss of rhythm or impulsion for the most part.

https://youtu.be/ZvxyBOOO6ow

From now on it's longeing, long lining, and in hand work only! And I'm excited for that, too.

And for fun, here's another video from almost exactly one year ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KizTzNhlrw

I'm pleased with the progress!

[demi]

Rosie, nice video of your last pre-baby ride. I watched "all 7 minutes" twice! and watched the older vid, too. It looks like you are in a really good place with him and it will be interesting to follow your in hand work. On the latest vid, I appreciated how you praised him vocally for the walk-canter transition. They really seem to know it when we are genuinely pleased and he looks like he enjoys working for you.

[Moutaineer]

I too have not fantastic video to share, so not to worry, flight!

I rode through the whole of 2.1 at the end of my lesson yesterday and my trainer videoed it for me, which was as enlightening as ever...(excuse the farmhand look. Believe it or not it was cold and foggy when we started the lesson... I was about dying in a flannel shirt by the time we were done.)

I seem to have learned the lesson, mostly, about shorter reins. Which has led to a much more consistent connection and far better trot work including some very nice right shoulder in, though some not so fabulous left shoulder in (but still, not appalling), and considerable improvement in the mediums--which though conservative, were respectable.

God only knows what happened to the counter canter--we've been nailing it in both directions. I think we were both getting tired, I lost focus and just lost the collection. And as we are working on "thou shalt not break when you feel like it," there was some not so pretty stuff there. That's our big practice point for tomorrow evening!

The simple changes need a bit of polish, but they are getting there. And I feel like the canter is pretty straight, which is a major achievement as his go-to evasion when I got him was to swing his bum in and travers whenever he didn't quite feel like doing what you asked.

Funny story, I've been really struggling with the 10 meter circles, and feeling like I was running out of room in the simple changes across the centerline, and commented to my trainer that the ring felt narrow. She assured me not. So I measured before my ride on Sunday and we are actually a full 6 ft narrow! That's a lot of missing space! We will be moving the fence in the near future... but that involves a bit of work as there are weeds that need to be extracted. But I feel that the simple changes will be much easier when we actually have room to straighten between the two half-circles, and 8 meter circles are a bit challenging for us as yet!

His mouth isn't actually open, btw, his teeth are together quietly, no clacking or champing, just his lips rolled back, which is just strange. I think it's his focus thing. If anyone can suggest a cure that doesn't involve tight leather straps, I'd be interested to hear!

https://youtu.be/_HaMtHJNBAc

[Dresseur]

You guys make a really nice pair. Have you ridden this test at a show yet? Overall, you'll need more energy.

Places where you will specifically get dinged...

Accuracy- you're leaving points on the table. I know that you said your ring was narrow, but almost all of your transitions are early, which means that the judge cannot give you a high score for the movement. Make sure you do transitions etc as your shoulder hits the letter, make sure when you turn across the ring to B that you are straight.

Transitions- in your lengthenings, there has to be a clear difference at 2nd level. The trot lengthening was very modest, and in the canter and trot there was no clear transition at the end- those are part of the score and you will loose many points for that.

The counter canter was very nice! Each transition is scored separately, so be accurate there and the free walk, encourage your horse to come out more- that score will take a hit too.

Overall, I think that you'd be in the 57ish range if you ride the test as is, depending on how generous the judge is.
Disclaimer: based on my experience with a bunch of scribing and watching my trainer take a sales horse in the ring riding this exact test on a horse show virgin for a 70%

Hope this helps!!

[Rosie B]

Thank-you demi - you are very kind. Your comments always manage to lift me a bit.

Mountaineer - I love the farmer look! And your whole test was very pleasant and steady. You and Laddie look good together. I enjoyed watching and I watched parts more than once. There are some things I really liked - the feeling of harmony, the steady tempo, and the steadiness of the shoulder-ins.

Agree w/ Dresseur re the mediums. Even if you don't have a great medium, you can increase your points by 'ring craft' - ie making very clear transitions. Really collect before AND after every lengthen to maximise the difference. This can turn a 5 lengthen into a 6 or higher if the transitions are good. In your first medium trot especially, it started out fairly well but by the time you reached X it had petered out. A good exercise that I like for this is to gather as much as you can in the corner, ride the medium boldly to X, then at X, re-collect quickly, and ask for the medium again - so you're essentially riding two mediums. It also helps them learn not to fall on the forehand during the mediums because they're expecting the collection at X.

When he broke in canter on the diagonal, even if this was during your test at a show, don't just accept it. Return to walk as soon as you can, reorganize, and transition back to counter canter. Although you'll take a ding on the movement, it won't be any less than if you DON'T fix it, AND you might get a better rider score. I had this happen in a test once and I fixed it calmly and smoothly, and ended up with an 8 for rider effectiveness with the comment 'good correction'. In your simple change after the second diagonal he trotted through, which would cost you major points. Again - fix it!

Some things you can work on immediately that will help for higher scores next weekend:
* Forward and back in the SI - establish SI then ride a few steps MEDIUM in SI and then back and MEDIUM again to get more lift and better connection
* trot/almost walk/trot transitions.... LOADs of them. These are SUPER for getting them hotter off the leg and getting a more honest connection
* Forward and back in canter on the 20m circle. Think pirouette canter when you come back and see how much you can get.

Lots of nice stuff going on here!! And good luck this coming weekend!

[Dresseur]

^ agreed!!
And the thing about fixing stuff immediately in the ring is you won't affect the movements directly after the error. If you don't fix, not only do you get a very low score for that particular movement, but it will affect the next movement or two.

[Moutaineer]

Thank you, that's all helpful stuff.

It was a bit "meh. Safe..." But to some extent that's what I was aiming for, and we cooked him in the lesson more than I would in a warm up. He will have a lot more ooomph in a strange arena, that I do know. So will I. Indoor warm up, mercifully!

So, onwards, forwards and upwards!

[Rosie B]

Oh! One more thing... your might get dinged for keeping him on a contact during your free walk. He has a tendency to get a little deep, and based on my recent scribing experiences (and some of Janet Foy Brown's videos), judges prefer the horse to be on a LOOSE rein. Even if the walk is lovely, if the horse is deep and on a contact, it can only score so high.

[demi]

...It was a bit "meh. Safe..." But to some extent that's what I was aiming for, and we cooked him in the lesson more than I would in a warm up. He will have a lot more ooomph in a strange arena, that I do know. So will I. Indoor warm up, mercifully!

So, onwards, forwards and upwards!

It sounds like you know what you're doing. Good strategy. I watched the vid and I think you're in a good place with him. This is just the first show and I think aiming for "safe" is exactly what I would do, too. Conservative now, will pay off in the long run. A year or two down the road I suspect you will be a really fancy pair! He is a handsome boy and will be quite the star someday, I think.I just hope you give us the chance to vote on a blingy brow band for him!!

Good luck this week end. Is it one day or two?

Remember the "horse ladies" are cheering for you!!!

[Moutaineer]

Thanks, Demi!

And yes, RosieB, I agree on the loose rein for the free walk... Not quite sure what happened in my brain there as he does tend to curl given half the chance.

Ugh, I've just go my ride times. 8.30 ish Friday and Saturday. I am SO not a morning person. Sigh.

[Ryeissa]

I forgot to mention that I had a friend jump Riot last weekend and he was good as gold! Why is this important? Last winter he got really upset and nervous jumping and started to take off on me and got really spooky (too many changes, too fast).
He was my good "dressage pony" and had a great work ethic. He seems much more settled like his old self. I was a bit nervous about testing him but it went well.

[kande50]

Ugh, I've just go my ride times. 8.30 ish Friday and Saturday. I am SO not a morning person. Sigh.

Shame, because there are probably plenty of morning people who got scheduled later in the day who would love to have your times.

[Chisamba]

Well, today I worked on an exercise I used to reserve for my upper level horses with all of my girls.

The premise is a figure of eight joining two twenty meter circles, with maybe two straight strides at x. This is done in sitting trot,. Stretching for 3/4 of the circle, riding uphill through the change of direction, and then stretching for 3/4 of the second circle. I did this in sitting trot,. Without letting the reins slip to stretch, in other words doing a direct release ( like Anya Beran does ).

I then did less stretch to a fifteen meter circle figure eight.
Then collected 10 m circles stretching through the changes of direction. I did this in trot and canter. It was very very enlightening as to the elasticity of my girls and the independence of my seat on my huge moving Acacia.

[Ryeissa]

Ugh, I've just go my ride times. 8.30 ish Friday and Saturday. I am SO not a morning person. Sigh.

Shame, because there are probably plenty of morning people who got scheduled later in the day who would love to have your times.

me! I hate long days.

[Moutaineer]

I rode this evening (in a howling wind, with the neighbors doing distracting things,) with all your enormously helpful comments rattling around in my brain. He was just so into it tonight, too, and we had a super nice, forward, attentive ride with lots of emphasis on accuracy and good transitions. And some very nice free walk

Thank you!

[Astral]

Well, I've gotten onto more of a regular schedule, but my updates are not as interesting as everyone else's!

After 6 months off and a certain amount of weight gain, I have no idea what my body's trying to do! Can I control my legs? Where are my hands? Do I have hips? What is core strength?

Aside from just generally being an out-of-shape lump, I think I've pin-pointed a few things. Because of the broken foot and ankle sprains, I'm VERY defensive about my ankles. Because of not being able to relax them, I'm pinching with my knees. Because I've lost so much core strength, the pinched knees are tipping me forward (plus, I think this newly-acquired gut is just pulling me forward anyhow ). So a big part of the game plan is to try to bring back my own fitness level, outside of riding. I'm obviously still dealing with the foot and ankle situation, but it's JUST that one part of my body: there's so much I can do for the rest of my body that's NOT in the healing process! As I start to put myself back together, I think longe lessons would be a great idea. While I don't have regular access to a dressage trainer around here, I do have a horse who's great for longe lessons, and just need a willing set of eyes on the ground...

My horse is going okay, all things considered. I don't think there's much to report on him until I get myself sorted. We're just doing a fair amount of trot work and figures at this point. Little bits of lateral work, but not much (because of me) and not much cantering (because of me). It's at a frustrating point, but at least we're moving forward...

[Chisamba]

I rode this evening (in a howling wind, with the neighbors doing distracting things,) with all your enormously helpful comments rattling around in my brain. He was just so into it tonight, too, and we had a super nice, forward, attentive ride with lots of emphasis on accuracy and good transitions. And some very nice free walk

Thank you!

Sounds like excellent practice for your show

[Chisamba]

Well, I've gotten onto more of a regular schedule, but my updates are not as interesting as everyone else's!

After 6 months off and a certain amount of weight gain, I have no idea what my body's trying to do! Can I control my legs? Where are my hands? Do I have hips? What is core strength?

Aside from just generally being an out-of-shape lump, I think I've pin-pointed a few things. Because of the broken foot and ankle sprains, I'm VERY defensive about my ankles. Because of not being able to relax them, I'm pinching with my knees. Because I've lost so much core strength, the pinched knees are tipping me forward (plus, I think this newly-acquired gut is just pulling me forward anyhow ). So a big part of the game plan is to try to bring back my own fitness level, outside of riding. I'm obviously still dealing with the foot and ankle situation, but it's JUST that one part of my body: there's so much I can do for the rest of my body that's NOT in the healing process! As I start to put myself back together, I think longe lessons would be a great idea. While I don't have regular access to a dressage trainer around here, I do have a horse who's great for longe lessons, and just need a willing set of eyes on the ground...

My horse is going okay, all things considered. I don't think there's much to report on him until I get myself sorted. We're just doing a fair amount of trot work and figures at this point. Little bits of lateral work, but not much (because of me) and not much cantering (because of me). It's at a frustrating point, but at least we're moving forward...

Be patient with yourself. For me I progress better with goals,. Challenging but in reach.

[Ryeissa]

Astral, I feel your pain! I'm not exactly out of shape but still feel like a lump many times!
We are all learning similar lessons!

[Flight]

Mountaineer thanks for sharing vid! I thought you do a great job and it is good reading the discussion about it in this thread. Good luck at your competition
I've got a 2pm time for mine on saturday (just a training day). I prefer mornings, although at least the frost/fog might be clear by then. I am pencilling before my ride though.

I had a good lesson with Ding yesterday, my instructor saw the vid that I posted and said it was ok, but I need to fix my hands and seat and start getting him more supple. We ended up mostly working on forward and how to supple that forward without pulling back with my hands. ... I feel like such a gumby and that I'm NEVER going to get it!
I'm also keeping on with the power yoga and making a determined effort to lose some kgs. Hopefully it will speed things up!

[Moutaineer]

I'm having no problem losing weight this week...

Looking at the day sheets for the show this weekend, I'm sharing a warmup with the FEI trainer who labeled my horse as "dangerous and unrideable" an "unable to canter on the left lead."

No pressure there, eh?

[Chisamba]

Well he looks sane and rideable and cantered on both leads well, so clearly you have done fabulous work.

[Rosie B]

Mountaineer - that just goes to show you how little that 'FEI trainer' really knows.

Relax, enjoy your horse, and relish showing him or her just how wrong they were.

Astral - it must feel nice to be back in the saddle!! Do you have a physiotherapist who can help you through the recovery?

Rye - yay for Riot!! I saw your videos before you took them down. You guys look so good together.

Chisamba - that sounds like a good exercise. What did you get from it with your girls?

[piedmontfields]

Well he looks sane and rideable and cantered on both leads well, so clearly you have done fabulous work.

Indeed!!! And maybe you can smile inside at your power to scare this trainer out of the warm-up ring at will.

Chisamba, I like that circle exercise---good reminder, and nice report on how it went with Acacia.

I have been realizing that the reason all the canter work Emi and I have been doing is so useful is that she is really willing to be rideable and let me "get into her"/sit into her at the canter. This means we can address a lot of issues at canter that are less accessible in trot (although that improves after the canter work).

[leheath8]

Just found this forum via FB and happy to see how active it is! Love these threads so am a bit late, but happy to join in!

Luna, my green 5yo Hungarian mare, has been, like many youngsters, taking several steps forward followed by a few steps back. Thankfully, we seem to be moving forward again the last couple of rides.

So June and July's goals:
1. I have been ramping up our riding so I would like to continue riding 4-5 times/week. I've been having some health issues that make this difficult, but I am committed to pushing through and am finally getting some medical assistance that I think might actually help me get better!
2. Bodyworker says she needs hill work, so we are committed to backing all the way up, in hand, and half way up, under saddle, the steep hill at the back of the barn every day I ride. I may be imagining it, but I think she is already showing improvement after only a few attempts. The wheat is also being harvested so we may have a field with hills to ride on soon.
3. We started jumping in April. She generally loves it and is pretty bold so I need to balance keeping her challenged without overfacing her because if she gets bored (or thinks she knows better than I do), so thinks up not so desirable approaches!
4. I need to push a little harder. I recently realized that I have eased up every time she finds something difficult and she has been taking advantage of that and we have been regressing rather than progressing. The last few rides I have been a little "tougher" and after some initial teenager tantrums, she has been really stepping up and we have had some great rides!
5. Our second dressage show of the year (third ever!) is this weekend. We are sticking with Intro walk/trot as the focus is on positive experiences and canter is still a rather "variable" part of our work! However, next weekend we have our first combined test (dressage and show jumping) and we have to canter in the dressage test. I think we will be ready...the goal is to stay in the ring for dressage and have a clean, positive first jumping show.
6. For the long weekend, we are going to adult summer camp. Our goal there is to do some trail riding and introduce her to cross country jumping.

[Chisamba]

Chisamba - that sounds like a good exercise. What did you get from it with your girls?

Deneb is willing to stretch but less willing to follow the reins back up and out for the working/ more collected part. How ever, since the exercise requires adjustability and responsiveness over shorter periods of time,. She had to focus on me more and forgot to be afraid of anything.

Kimba was the most proficient and adjustable. She was able to stretch and collect in the canter without losing balance or breaking. I was very pleased as she used to pace ( from her standardbred mother) and did not have a three beat canter. However she needs more ten m circles to improve as she wanted to allow her quarters to drift out in the circle.

Acacia is just not elastic enough in the contact, she would prefer to hollow on the transitions to longer and shorter reins.

The thing that was most enlightening was my sitting trot . I have taken a rather bad habit of sitting a little behind the vertical to try and sit the big movement,. Since I am the heaviest, I have ever been and am working on controlling my extra weight. Bad move. It puts me behind the movement !! When having to lean forward to allow stretch without slipping the reins, it brought my center of gravity low and between my thighs and I was able to sit right in the movement.

Today I had my son video me doing sitting trot staying vertical, not back. I sat MUCH better, but over compensated and let my shoulders round forward. I need to sit level in my hips and open in my shoulders. So more video tomorrow to see if I have found the sweet spot.

I am happily up to riding five horses a day,. So my fitness had improved, and I need to change the battery on my scale so I can see if my weight is on a downward trend.

On a light note,. I texted a friend to say I am working on the sitting trot, and my phone autocorrect changed it to " I am working on sitting torture ".

[Ryeissa]

canter is coming along! I'm so happy!!!

[demi]

Well, today I worked on an exercise I used to reserve for my upper level horses with all of my girls.

The premise is a figure of eight joining two twenty meter circles, with maybe two straight strides at x. This is done in sitting trot,. Stretching for 3/4 of the circle, riding uphill through the change of direction, and then stretching for 3/4 of the second circle. I did this in sitting trot,. Without letting the reins slip to stretch, in other words doing a direct release ( like Anya Beran does )...

Can you describe the "direct release (like Anya Beran does)"? I have been thinking a lot about rein length lately.

[demi]

....Acacia is just not elastic enough in the contact, she would prefer to hollow on the transitions to longer and shorter reins...

I think I am finding a similar thing with Emma. After looking at recent pics, I can see that she is coming from behind nicely but I am still blocking her somewhere because she raises her head and drops her shoulders. I have been asking for lots of forward and didn't realize that she was giving it to me! Now that I know I have plenty of forward I think I can give her a longer rein to see if that stops the blocking that I am somehow doing. I'll try to add a couple more pics that show what I am talking about. I'm open to any comments.

Pictures will be coming ...

[Chisamba]

https://goo.gl/images/knVWDB

She does a direct release, not lengthening the reins but following the horse forward with arms and torso. Allowing the torso to move forward tells the horse it is allowed to stretch.

If she lengthens the reins without leaning forward, the horse is supposed to stay in self carriage.

I had her book and did not enjoy it enough to buy a another copy when it burned, but I read and reread the chapter on the release, and the photos, and since I have an unconventional much criticised method of shortening the reins, practiced it. I find if I am offering release in the sitting trot, her method is far superior for me.

[kande50]

https://goo.gl/images/knVWDB

Interesting. Would you call that an elastic contact, or is that impossible to tell from a pic?

[demi]

I should have put these pictures in reverse order but it was a struggle just to get them posted! Anyway, if I let her have more room in the neck, she stretches into the contact (second pic, note my open little finger and elbow more forward). But when I take more rein (closed hand and elbow back more), while still keeping her coming from behind, She raises her neck, which I want, but hollows her back.....

Am I asking too much, too soon? or am I blocking her somehow?

Today I rode her for the whole ride in the longer frame and she was quite happy. All i can get in that frame though, is w,t, c and shallow leg yeilds.

[demi]

Thanks, Chisamba. Good description. It makes sense and fits with the way I ride (I think!) (I hope!) (I WISH!)

[kande50]

Today I rode her for the whole ride in the longer frame and she was quite happy. All i can get in that frame though, is w,t, c and shallow leg yeilds.

I'm working on this now too, as my trainer wants me to ride Sting with his neck lower because she wants him to use his back more. I think I know what she's looking for, which I think is a better alignment of the spine so that the thrust from the back legs goes up through his neck to the bit (instead of out through a lowered chest under a raised neck--if that makes any sense?)

I'm fine with trying it because I like the idea of being able to get him to carry his head and neck anywhere, but have to admit that when I duplicate the neck and poll position that she wants (similar to your 2nd pic) it feels to me like he's dumping on his forehand more than when I ride him with a more raised neck (similar to your 1st pic).

I think I understand the concept of "leveraging" the front end up by keeping the bow strung, but was hoping that I could accomplish the same thing through lateral flexibility and figures rather than with a more direct "leverage".

I too, feel like I have enough forward energy now, even though I've been wimping out and riding inside where there's way less room, to avoid the sun and the bugs, so "enough forward energy" may just be an illusion because I've been moving so slowly for so long?

[Moutaineer]

Demi, I think you need to look at what you are doing with the rest of your body in pic 1 vs pic 2. YOU look so much more relaxed an in balance in pic 2.

[khall]

IMO the head and neck raise when the HQs lower from collection. If you try to ride the neck first you end up compressing the horse's spine which drops the chest down. Only through proper gymnastic exercises can the horse build the strength to sit behind and elevate the front. Those exercises include but are not limited to: SI, HI, renvere, HP, RB, transitions that skip a gait and ultimately piaffe. You need to be able to mobilize the shoulders with the longer neck so the horse can lift the base of his neck and raise his/her withers. If you are struggling to execute theses exercises with the longer neck, go to in hand work to teach the horse the proper rein aids in lightness, with the horse balanced between the reins and in proper flexion that allows for the inside rein to have a slight drape to it. I use SI in the beginning of in hand work to encourage the horse to step with his inside hind under his midline (not across!) which supports the core of the horse. As we work on SI both on straight and curved lines I then move to counter SI, which mobilizes the shoulders and encourages the horse to sit more behind as they open the pecks and release in the shoulders. I do this by shallow serpentines, advancing the haunches on the curve with the horse in SI, then as we change direction, no change of bend stepping across the front of the horse so that they shift away from you and move their shoulders in counter SI. I move up and down the arena in this exercise, using fairly shallow bends at first and steeper as the horse gets stronger. I do these exercise under saddle as well, starting at the walk of course but moving to the trot as the horse shows me he can.

There is no leverage there is no force, their is just systematic gymnastic exercises that strengthens and supples the horse leading ultimately to collection.

One point I would like to make is that I prefer renvere once the horse is able to execute this movement because in renvere the horse both mobilizes his shoulders which sits him down behind but also steps into the bend, which is superior to SI which steps away from the bend. Renvere is better at collecting the horse than SI for this reason. Renvere on a curved line is the ultimate lateral movement for collection.

[Chisamba]

Demi,. I do not simply take a shorter contact when asking my horse to work more uphill, I do a ten m circle, or shoulder in, or some balancing exercise that encourages the horse to step more under, this allows the horse to step under better, and this lift the withers which results in a shorter distance from elbow to mouth. Obviously it takes time, as Acacia is not quite there yet.

[kande50]

There is no leverage there is no force, their is just systematic gymnastic exercises that strengthens and supples the horse leading ultimately to collection.

The term "leverage" describes an action rather than the amount of pressure it takes to accomplish it.

[Chisamba]

A sidebar :

horse nor human could not function without leverage,. The action of muscle an tendon on bone to create motion is leverage,. Muscles only contract. So there is two, or more muscles, one contacts to move the bone via leverage on one direction, the other contacts, using leverage, to move the bone Three other way, simultaneously stretching the previously contacted muscle.

Sans leverage there would be no life.

Sorry, I might have misunderstood, my friend just told me you probably do not mean going end lowering, front end lifting, leverage.