Improving position, biomechanics?

[Dresseur]

Way to go, Flight!!! Keep us updated!

[khall]

Where's the like button? Yeah Flight!

[Sue B]

Great job Flight. As one who has struggled mightily over the years with my position, I know how hard it is to change, but also how rewarding.

[Ryeissa]

Hooray!

[Ryeissa]

http://dressagetoday.com/article/rider_ ... ics_081809

some ideas here about what I was talking about with the thigh.

[Chisamba]

I do not agree with Mary Wanless in everything,. For example I think open ribcage and flat back are better, however I do agree on many of her other points.

If a person hollows their back and sits behind the vertical, I can imagine scrunching being an exaggeration of the opposite to develop correctly, but not as a general instruction.

Not do I like there idea of bearing down, coughing, or pushing down with the seat.

I am also immensely amused by instructions like, open your hips ( not Mary Wanless, but another biomechanics guru) guess what the girdle is solid and the only way to open hips would need to dislocate them) and other strange Instructions. I have long used the lifting the knees, turning the thighs in and relaxed calves , I have never ever worked with Wanless or any of her students, so I am fairly sure it's not unique to her.

Still, I enjoyed the article thank you for sharing.

[Dresseur]

^ I agree. Although, I found this article to fairly fairly spot on with how I use my body, except that "bearing down" doesn't describe what I do either.

I AM trying to figure this out... typo perhaps?!
By emphasizing the uphill beat of the canter, Wanless had a rider use her thighs to pull her pelvis backward like a sling shot.
I can't imagine how you would pull your pelvis BACK, or why you would want to.

In any case, thank you for sharing.

[piedmontfields]

I AM trying to figure this out... typo perhaps?!
By emphasizing the uphill beat of the canter, Wanless had a rider use her thighs to pull her pelvis backward like a sling shot.
I can't imagine how you would pull your pelvis BACK, or why you would want to.

It's weird. But for a rider who is utterly on her crotch at the crest of the canter wave (basically falling down the crest of the wave), it might make sense.

[Chisamba]

I have used the expression of picking the horse up in the canter, but I agree, the slingshot image is not one I comprehend

[StraightForward]

I am also immensely amused by instructions like, open your hips ( not Mary Wanless, but another biomechanics guru) guess what the girdle is solid and the only way to open hips would need to dislocate them) and other strange Instructions. I have long used the lifting the knees, turning the thighs in and relaxed calves , I have never ever worked with Wanless or any of her students, so I am fairly sure it's not unique to her.

Maybe the expression is not totally anatomically correct, but many riders have tight hip flexors, and the leg does not have full range of movement, and could become more flexible, or "open," allowing the thigh to drape, and for the leg to come forward or backwards easily, as much as the rider needs it to, without disturbing the seat.

But we can already do these things, right?

[Flight]

To be honest I'm now not sure what I'm meant to be doing with my thighs.
I think having stronger thighs has led me to just gripping with them. I have thick thighs so now I think they actually do lie against my saddle enough on their own, without me tensing the muscle?
When I strengthen my thigh, my knee and heel tends to come up. I've now gone back to thinking keeping pelvis under and core strong, which seems to keep my hips and thighs ok, then I try and keep my whole leg long and relaxed downwards.

I wonder is she meant slingshot pelvis forward in canter, not backwards??

Those pics are eye watering, Straightforward!!

[Chisamba]

Okay, Straightforward me in any of those pictures where is the hip. Has it moved? If some one claims to be abiomechanics guru, shouldn't they actually know the difference between a hip and a thigh? Better still show me how to keep my thigh still and make my hips bigger.

The hip flexors are a group of muscles that allows you to lift your knee toward your body. The hip would be like a door hinge,. It allows the door to open and close without moving. Since muscles can only contract,. You are not even using the hip flexors when you stretch.

Muscles do not get tight for no reason, most of the time if a person gets tight in their hip flexors, it's because they are compensating for a weakness elsewhere, and unless you identify the cause, all the stretches are not going to fix the problem.

I have had the most progress when using an actual physical therapist, no a self proclaimed biomechanics guru.

[demi]

I'm thinking that a lot of how well certain ideas work for me depend a lot on my own conformation. I read MW's "Ride With Your Mind" years ago, and, while I could clearly see the improvement in the example horse/rider pictures, most of her corrections didn't work for me.

In the article that Ryeissa posted, for example, the direction for how to plug the seat bones in, has the opposite effect for me. If I pull my legs up at a 45 degree angle over the flaps of the saddle, my back rounds too much and it places my seat "on my pockets". Personally, if I just lengthen my legs and don't tense them, gravity pulls my seat into a good position for me.

Similarly with rotating my thighs in from the position the article describes, I get the wrong feeling. I do rotate my thighs in (at least, when I'm riding well!) but it's with as long a leg as possible and not with my knees up.

Mostly, I don't do well with exaggerating a motion or position to get the feel. I do better just trying to do it right in the first place. I've heard the expression "it isn't practice that makes perfect, it's PERFECT practice that makes perfect".

I do however, understand, and can see that MW's stuff works very nicely for some.

[StraightForward]

Okay, Straightforward me in any of those pictures where is the hip. Has it moved? If some one claims to be abiomechanics guru, shouldn't they actually know the difference between a hip and a thigh? Better still show me how to keep my thigh still and make my hips bigger.

The hip flexors are a group of muscles that allows you to lift your knee toward your body. The hip would be like a door hinge,. It allows the door to open and close without moving. Since muscles can only contract,. You are not even using the hip flexors when you stretch.

Muscles do not get tight for no reason, most of the time if a person gets tight in their hip flexors, it's because they are compensating for a weakness elsewhere, and unless you identify the cause, all the stretches are not going to fix the problem.

I have had the most progress when using an actual physical therapist, no a self proclaimed biomechanics guru.

Like I said, the language being used isn't anatomically correct, but I think it gives most people the right idea. I just googled hip flexors and found this image:



When I drop my stirrups and bring my leg back with my inner thigh on the horse, I believe it is the tensor fasciae latae that will often threaten to cramp. Whether it's tightness, or weakness, or whatever, doing the stretch helps teach my muscles that it's OK to have my thigh in this more open position.

Why would this group of muscles become tight? No, not for no reason, but because many of us sit in front of computers every day, which is the same reason the posterior chain needs to be worked to remind it how to fire.

[Ryeissa]

To be honest I'm now not sure what I'm meant to be doing with my thighs.
I think having stronger thighs has led me to just gripping with them. I have thick thighs so now I think they actually do lie against my saddle enough on their own, without me tensing the muscle?
When I strengthen my thigh, my knee and heel tends to come up. I've now gone back to thinking keeping pelvis under and core strong, which seems to keep my hips and thighs ok, then I try and keep my whole leg long and relaxed downwards.

I wonder is she meant slingshot pelvis forward in canter, not backwards??

Those pics are eye watering, Straightforward!!

Its the thigh snug against the flap, not gripping. The reason this is key is that it supports the core, the weight doesn't drop into the stirrups and get too low.

I was told to have 70% of my weight in my thigh. Sounds weird, but my horse is very collected now with less overt-pushing. The bridge of muscles is lifted. I tend to carry a lot of weight in the stirrups.

What are you straightening the thigh? Am important part is having the proper bend in the knee.

Also I found the anchoring down in the saddle to be critical, I was floating too tall and up out of the seat- course it's also not grinding down the seatbones.

It's all best learned with a trainer, this is so hard to grasp in these abstract concepts!

[musical comedy]

Regarding the thigh and sling shot, I found this text from someone that blogged about taking a clinic with Wanless. Maybe it might help explain what she meant. I have only read pieces of Wanless articles and a few videos. I'm not a scholarly type, so she gets too detailed for my pea brain. I really love the way Heather Blitz is positioned, but I not sure that is all due to Wanless.

Canter - One of the most profound understandings for me came from realization that riders should be taught to have emphasis on the first beat. Pelvis and thighs are like a sling shot with the stone. Thighs pull pelvis backward at the first beat of canter. Pelvis keeps it's position, shoulders do not lean backwards or forward. The rider should send herself backwards with the thighs on the first beat of canter. This will lift the horse up on the haunches in every stride. There should not be any push forward or downward with rider's back or buttocks on the third beat of canter. With emphasis on the first beat the horse will not be on the forehand as much and will not drag the rider forward and down. Canter will become more rounded and uphill creating more of a lifting sensation on the third beat. It is hard for riders who pushed and slid forward for many years stop doing it all of a sudden. Focusing on the drawing pelvis backward on the first beat and being just passive in between will help. Pelvis should stay plugged in and not leave the saddle. If hip joints are locked pelvis will bounce up in the air. Mary's tip is to focus on being aware how much of your seat from the crouch to the seatbones is connected to the saddle. If only crouch stays attached to the saddle, think of spreading the attachment of your seat further back toward your seatbones. Bearing down is of paramount importance in canter.

I have used the expression of picking the horse up in the canter, but I agree, the slingshot image is not one I comprehend

Yeah, me too. The problem for some is being able to use terms to define what we do and/or for others to understand those terms or imagery.

[Ryeissa]

Thanks MC!

It's funny, I hate reading about MW since it's so abstract at times....

but her ideas have been a MIRACLE in my riding and just what I needed. My trainer is very much a "here, I will move your shoulder here, FELL THAT? ok, now show me you can do it again" sort of trainer. It makes sense to me this way.

If you can't take MW try Jen Truett out of Dancing Horse Farm in the midwest somewhere (Ohio?) also shows GP in FL. She is one of her only students in the US that is "certified"

[Josette]

Thanks MC too! I don't understand the sling shot image either. What you wrote in blue is very helpful! Now that description and detail I can understand.

[Dresseur]

It's the pelvis backwards that I really don't understand. I'm assuming she's not talking about tipping the pelvis back... But maybe she is??

I can see pulling the pelvis forward on the upbeat, brining the horse's hips along with. What am I missing in the description?!

[Flight]

I think it's like the 'backwards egg'. I'm pretty sure when I was reading some of Mary Wanless stuff, I remember reading somewhere that your motion with your seat in canter was like a backwards egg. So, yes she does say seat does go backwards on the first beat, then forwards but thinking more of an oval/egg shape, rather than just forwards and backwards.

I sometimes overdo things that I read, and am better off with an instructor on the ground watching what I do.

The best thing so far has been tucking my pelvis more under, but I was and am very hollow backed! Even on the ground, in front of a mirror, I can't totally flatten out my back (even feeling where the bones are through the fat!).

[Chisamba]

If I have an arched back rider,. I have then stand against a wall, legs apart with enough room for a horse heels pressed to the ground.

Now bend your legs and lower slightly. Ok now push your lower back against the wall and feel which muscles it takes. Work out how to flatten your back, now turn your toes in, like snowploughing.

Make it muscle memory.

[Flight]

If I have an arched back rider,. I have then stand against a wall, legs apart with enough room for a horse heels pressed to the ground.

Now bend your legs and lower slightly. Ok now push your lower back against the wall and feel which muscles it takes. Work out how to flatten your back, now turn your toes in, like snowploughing.

Make it muscle memory.

Yep! I've done this!! Actually, I was pondering in the shower about riding and was practising against the wall

Definitely the flattened back and the snowplough is making me feel more secure, like once I have that, I don't have to keep concentrating on keeping my seat. I'm pretty excited to be honest and I'm hoping it's the answer because I don't want to have to go back and work out what I'm doing wrong.

[mld02004]

Having audited a MW clinic I think it is hard to convey some of her feelages into the written word. When she aligns people on a horse there can be miraculous results. That said, I find some of her book stuff tedious and some of it can overly stiffen you if overdo it.

[Flight]

Having audited a MW clinic I think it is hard to convey some of her feelages into the written word. When she aligns people on a horse there can be miraculous results. That said, I find some of her book stuff tedious and some of it can overly stiffen you if overdo it.

I think it would be great to audit a clinic, as a few videos I've seen, the change in riders and horses look to be fantastic!

[Bats79]

To be honest I'm now not sure what I'm meant to be doing with my thighs.
I think having stronger thighs has led me to just gripping with them. I have thick thighs so now I think they actually do lie against my saddle enough on their own, without me tensing the muscle?
When I strengthen my thigh, my knee and heel tends to come up. I've now gone back to thinking keeping pelvis under and core strong, which seems to keep my hips and thighs ok, then I try and keep my whole leg long and relaxed downwards.

I wonder is she meant slingshot pelvis forward in canter, not backwards??

Those pics are eye watering, Straightforward!!

For me, being a larger size, the emphasis is always to sit balanced and not "pop" myself anywhere. One of the things you quickly notice when starting horses under saddle is that the young or green horse feels EVERYTHING. Horses that require an active seat do so because they have stopped listening to confusing information and balance. So I always think, FIRST sit in position, then sit STILL.

The next thing I do is try and make sure that my hips are loose enough that the horse's rib cage can move my legs. This might mean that I have to move my legs a bit to get them out of the horse's way for a while, but my legs have become much lighter and my horses have stopped wobbling from side to side to try and avoid pressure that I didn't even realise I was using. My whole leg is now much lighter and longer and the horse's reaction to my leg aids are subsequently more elegant and supple rather than staid or slow.

[demi]

To be honest I'm now not sure what I'm meant to be doing with my thighs.
I think having stronger thighs has led me to just gripping with them. I have thick thighs so now I think they actually do lie against my saddle enough on their own, without me tensing the muscle?
When I strengthen my thigh, my knee and heel tends to come up. I've now gone back to thinking keeping pelvis under and core strong, which seems to keep my hips and thighs ok, then I try and keep my whole leg long and relaxed downwards.

I wonder is she meant slingshot pelvis forward in canter, not backwards??

Those pics are eye watering, Straightforward!!

For me, being a larger size, the emphasis is always to sit balanced and not "pop" myself anywhere. One of the things you quickly notice when starting horses under saddle is that the young or green horse feels EVERYTHING. Horses that require an active seat do so because they have stopped listening to confusing information and balance. So I always think, FIRST sit in position, then sit STILL.

The next thing I do is try and make sure that my hips are loose enough that the horse's rib cage can move my legs. This might mean that I have to move my legs a bit to get them out of the horse's way for a while, but my legs have become much lighter and my horses have stopped wobbling from side to side to try and avoid pressure that I didn't even realise I was using. My whole leg is now much lighter and longer and the horse's reaction to my leg aids are subsequently more elegant and supple rather than staid or slow.

YES! Thanks for this post, Bats 79. I have to constantly remind myself to just sit still because I tend to be way to active with both hands and seat. I like to think of letting my legs breathe with the horse. It requires a lot of core to keep a position which allows my legs to breathe with the horse, but the results are worth the effort. Huge effort to make it effortless...go figure!

[musical comedy]

I wonder is she meant slingshot pelvis forward in canter, not backwards??

No, I don't think so. I thought about this for a bit and then tried to understand it and do it. Whatever I did had a very positive improvement. Was that luck? Was it what Mary means? Was it somethign else I did 'right' that I don't understand? Who knows.

I don't do well with explaining things in words. And really, it seems Mary doesn't either . I will try though. You know how many of us were taught to use our seat in canter? Think about what many do when their horse is about to fall out of canter. They sort of swoop with their seat/pelvis. Well, this is NOT what Mary wants. The swooping is done with the thigh. You've got to have 'knee down'; always think knee down and it's pretty impossible to get in a chair seat. So knee down, bring thigh back a bit, and swoop forward. The sling shot. It sort of resembles the way polo riders post the canter, in case anywhere here is familiar with that.

Probably this is clear as mud and there will be some . It works for me though, and on a horse that would prefer to be labored at the canter.

[kande50]

Probably this is clear as mud and there will be some . It works for me though, and on a horse that would prefer to be labored at the canter.

I think I only "pump" at the walk, which is likely because I'm always trying to get my horse to put more energy into his walk so have gotten into the habit of exaggerating the seat aid.

It was the first thing my new instructor wanted to work on, which puzzled me because I thought I was just following. But after I worked on it and got him going on his own, I could see that not only had I been pushing every stride, but I'd been rounding my back so that I could push more easily.

Oddly enough, I don't do it in either the trot or the canter, and don't think I do much of anything during canter strikeoffs other than give with my hands so that I don't grab him in the mouth? I'll have to pay closer attention next time I ride.

[Flight]

MC, I've tried what you are saying a couple of times now and I think I get it! Even if I haven't quite got it, it's made me feel more secure in the canter, less loose movement in my seat and thighs anyway...

[Josette]

Yes - I just came in from an early ride (extreme heat here) and tried some canter. The knees down is easy for me to maintain with sitting trot but not the case with the canter. Granted we are working on our transitions as some days there are good ones and today - well not so good. So if I slip back in the saddle it is tricky to adjust. Maybe if I quickly stand and move my seat forward I can adjust my knees down. I notice my guy seems to canter best with my legs lightly closed on his sides. I am practicing in maintain light contact.

off topic - I find my trainer has super long legs so I THINK she cues him a bit different than I do. I do not place my leg far back for canter depart - so some rides I have to remind him that "short rider" is on board and this is how I do it. I suppose he needs to be versatile to tune in as our leg lengths....

demi - since I am such a literal interpreter sometimes semantics have gotten me into trouble. I now prefer "following seat" which I think of as soft elastic hips following the horse. Never pumping seat. My "still seat" can shut down a horse so I use it to transition down. So still seat for me means none following the horse. I've made all the mistakes over the years and then have to start over to fix myself.

[Chisamba]

I agree with the sit still and relaxed, that way when you ask for something the horse can feel it without the static interference.

[musical comedy]

MC, I've tried what you are saying a couple of times now and I think I get it! Even if I haven't quite got it, it's made me feel more secure in the canter, less loose movement in my seat and thighs anyway...

It continues to work for me. My canter work has much improved.

Josette, it's interesting that you find it harder to do at the canter than at the trot. I guess it might depend on the horse's gait, and which one is easier.

This knee-down concept really hit home for me. In fact, decades ago when I first took dressage lessons it was from a British lady and she kept saying 'knee down'. At the time, I was so novice it went in one ear and out the other.

Also (and most won't like this), I am using my exterior thigh blocks a lot. So yeah...a crutch, but one that I need. I have been allowing my horse to destabilize (is that a word?) me. I admit, I am weak and unfit, but at my age it's likely not going to get bettter.

I agree with the sit still and relaxed, that way when you ask for something the horse can feel it without the static interference.

This is true, but easier said than done. That is why I have in the past noted that when we try and force a new position change, it creates tension that the horse feels and responds in a negative way. Once we get to a certain level, the smallest change in our body can affect the horse.

[Josette]

Thinking about this earlier ride when I had some difficult canter departs - I resorted to that swooping seat you described. I tipped forward so big mistake for my position. Frustrating as I want to try these posture adjustments but the heat wave is so bad now. I admit I'm upset about my transitions today. Some days they are really good but we need to get them consistent. It seems so hard when 2 riders are so different in height giving aids. I feel like I'm confusing my guy so I struggle with consistent rides.

[kande50]

Also (and most won't like this), I am using my exterior thigh blocks a lot. So yeah...a crutch, but one that I need. I have been allowing my horse to destabilize (is that a word?) me. I admit, I am weak and unfit, but at my age it's likely not going to get bettter.

Same here, and I'm probably not going to get much fitter either, so better the "bear trap" saddle than flopping around more.

Only problem with using the blocks is that it does seem to contribute to the appearance of a chair seat, not because I'm tipping or leaning back but because I tend to lift my thighs to use the blocks.

Not that it matters particularly at this point, as the big challenge now is to get out there and put the saddle on the horse and get on!

[demi]

Josette, you inspired me to ride this morning, Thank you! It is relentlessly hot here, nothing unusual for TX, and, after walking the dogs, I had decided to not ride. I came in, got another cup of coffee and read your post about riding this morning. It was only 8:15 here and I suddenly wanted to ride! I only rode for 20 minutes but both Emma and I enjoyed it.

I hear you about "still seat" and being a "literal interpreter". I am also a very literal interpreter, but in this case, "still seat" works for me. It's like Chisamba said, "sit still and relaxed, that way when you ask for something the horse can feel it without static interference", and I am assuming she uses "static" in the sense of background noise. Again, we are all so different, and combined with riding different horses, some of this stuff will work for some of us but not others. So we just have to experiment. For me, going back to what Chisamba said, if I am not completely still, not only does Emma not feel ME, but I don't feel her, either.

So my seat isn't literally still. Here is something I found yesterday that I had copied from a video by Kalman deJurnak (s?) He was the director of the Hann. Auction in Verden quite a while ago. I loaned the vid out years ago and never got it back, and I can't even remember what the title was. All I know is that I was very taken with the instructions and the riders in the video. So, when I read what I copied, it sounds contradictory, but it isn't if you remember not to take it totally a literally....

So here is what Kalman said:

"ALWAYS, and over, and over again,

SIT,
Absolutely still,
In the middle of the horse,

And always swinging in the rhythm, together with the horse, with a completely independent hand, on the front of the seat.

The still lower legs; the effective, active, driving lower legs, without disturbing the horse, produce harmony."

I hope my punctuation is okay. I can still hear him saying it. I love the end ..."produce harmony". It says it all.

[Josette]

demi - thank you for your explanation for how you use still seat. It is Very helpful. I really like what you wrote about Kalman. Consistent harmony is the GOAL for all rides. Definitely a mantra to repeat each time I mount up and we start our ride. The next several days will be miserable heat. I am so motivated to work on these position adjustments so very frustrated with the weather. I had finally accomplished some decent sitting trot and had some lovely canter work the other week. I was hoping to get it back with suppling and work on transitions.

[Chisamba]

Josette, you inspired me to ride this morning, Thank you! It is relentlessly hot here, nothing unusual for TX, and, after walking the dogs, I had decided to not ride. I came in, got another cup of coffee and read your post about riding this morning. It was only 8:15 here and I suddenly wanted to ride! I only rode for 20 minutes but both Emma and I enjoyed it.

I hear you about "still seat" and being a "literal interpreter". I am also a very literal interpreter, but in this case, "still seat" works for me. It's like Chisamba said, "sit still and relaxed, that way when you ask for something the horse can feel it without static interference", and I am assuming she uses "static" in the sense of background noise. Again, we are all so different, and combined with riding different horses, some of this stuff will work for some of us but not others. So we just have to experiment. For me, going back to what Chisamba said, if I am not completely still, not only does Emma not feel ME, but I don't feel her, either.

So my seat isn't literally still. Here is something I found yesterday that I had copied from a video by Kalman deJurnak (s?) He was the director of the Hann. Auction in Verden quite a while ago. I loaned the vid out years ago and never got it back, and I can't even remember what the title was. All I know is that I was very taken with the instructions and the riders in the video. So, when I read what I copied, it sounds contradictory, but it isn't if you remember not to take it totally a literally....

So here is what Kalman said:

"ALWAYS, and over, and over again,

SIT,
Absolutely still,
In the middle of the horse,

And always swinging in the rhythm, together with the horse, with a completely independent hand, on the front of the seat.

The still lower legs; the effective, active, driving lower legs, without disturbing the horse, produce harmony."

I hope my punctuation is okay. I can still hear him saying it. I love the end ..."produce harmony". It says it all.

Yes that is what I meant.

I too enjoyed the de Jurenak video.

[demi]

I am really concentrating on getting the "static" out of my aides. I am becoming aware of just how noisy I am in my communication with Emma. I always thought I was a quiet rider so I didn't work on getting even quieter. I've already notice that my rides are more enjoyable and how necessary it is to get the background noise out. It is worth the time and effort to make this improvement.

[Beorn]

It's fascinating to read how people describe their riding experiences. I tried really really hard to learn from reading MW and others, but ended up stupidly stiff and heavy in the end (and frustrated!). My current instructor has no safety zones or boundaries with showing me *exactly* which muscles in my seat, legs, thighs, abdomen, etc. need to be engaging, and when. She will stick a hand places and make me show her that I can USE that part of my body to stay quiet so I'm not over-loading the horse with inputs.

And the fear that she will do it again makes me pay particular attention to the feeling so that I can recreate it.

That said, she's also got no problem with students copping a feel when she's riding if they're really struggling to understand the sequence of muscle engagement.

It's not perfect, but my horse is happy and working better than he ever has. He's actually got his own balance now, and I don't feel like we're the staggering drunken fools as often.

[Chisamba]

Since one can only " cop a feel" when the horse is in motion, and then it's not as if you could put your own hands under your seat to feel how you are sequencing muscle engagement, I find the above mentioned post pretty unlikely to actually help riding.

I have both seen,( and used) a trainer put a longer line around riders hips, stand in front of the horse and tug to help the rider find the muscle engagement needed to half halt while maintaining relaxed hips and legs.

Hand under the crotch should feel nothing but weight,. No twerking or humping, belly dancing needed you are the still partner, the horse us dancing.

[Ryeissa]

Since one can only " cop a feel" when the horse is in motion, and then it's not as if you could put your own hands under your seat to feel how you are sequencing muscle engagement, I find the above mentioned post pretty unlikely to actually help riding.

I have both seen,( and used) a trainer put a longer line around abusers hips, stand in front of the horse and tug to help the rider find the muscle engagement needed to half halt while maintaining relaxed hips and legs.

Hand under the crotch should feel nothing but weight,. No twerking or humping, belly dancing needed you are the still partner, the horse us dancing.

you can have core "tone" sitting still, and should.

I have used the balanace ball (exercize ball) to work on my asymmetry and how core feeds into weighting the seatbones. I have to engage my hip flexor on the right side to keep my seatbones equally weighted. that is my internal issues, nothing with the horse, horses' motion, or movement.

[Chisamba]

Rye, I love balance balls and I really appreciate riders who use them, but core is not crotch imho. Unless I am misunderstanding what is meant by " cop a feel".

[Josette]

I've found these videos by Catherine Haddad very helpful for this topic. IMO this relaxed riding shows excellent harmony with a big moving horse. Following her tips made a huge difference for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tcB-71_B38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2gPxPuiExs

[Chisamba]

Have you seen her ride live. It is not something I would choose emulate. Perhaps body type has an influence with my size and boib type if u yo-yoed on the horse like her it works new pure ugly.

Also, your goal as a rider is to change the horses center of gravity so it carries it's weight equally on all four legs,. So her whole center of gravity center of motion things changes as the horse rebalances constantly.

I thought I going to love her when i started reading her blog, and went to see her in a show, mostly to see her. I prefer watching Peters, Graves, actually mangy many others and would rather, personally try to emulate and teach shall I say, traditional methods

[demi]

I've found these videos by Catherine Haddad very helpful for this topic. IMO this relaxed riding shows excellent harmony with a big moving horse. Following her tips made a huge difference for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tcB-71_B38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2gPxPuiExs

I liked the second video enough to bookmark it. Thanks for sharing it. Not all of her "tips" ring a bell with me, but the principal that she stresses, about loose enough hips to follow the motion of the horse, is the thing that I am focusing on right now. She even uses the word "static" which Chisamba brought out in the particular thread. As I commented in this thread, that's the whole focus of my riding right now. So again, thanks for sharing this vid!

[Josette]

No - I've only seen these videos. I try to search for riders closer to my body type (meaning no 36" inseam LOL!). Debbie McDonald is my height/build so I will look her up - plus Jane Savoie too. Years ago, I did audit an MW clinic but did get lost with some of her terminology. In a previous post, I mentioned I am a literal interpreter and like plain language descriptions.

demi - exactly! The loose hips description hit the light bulb for me when I realized I was holding myself too still. Again, relates to the discussion about being rigid and trying too hard to follow the movement.

[demi]

The whole language issue is the problem! Because I need to think "sit still" all the time. When I think sit still, I can't be stiff because stiffness goes against the motion.

[Dresseur]

This may throw a huge wrench in things - and it could just be semantics, but IMO, I don't want to follow and absorb movement. I want to direct and create through my seat and aids. That does not mean that I'm nagging every stride for something, but I am taking that forward and using it. I want to use the movement that is inherent in the horse's back to amplify the gait and make the movement more expressive. Of course, the horse has to be strong enough to act on these aids, and be trained to understand these aids, but that's why the training is progressive. It's riding every stride vs following.

As an aside, I agree with Chisamba, I really enjoy what Catherine Haddad has to say, I would never seek to emulate her as a rider. More often than not, she is in a chair seat, and her horses usually show quite shortened necks or overbent postures. Even in the demo link, where the horse has more room in the neck, it's breaking at the 3rd.

[Sue B]

Sorry, in advance, for diverting, but chisamba , your posts crack me up. You must have autocorrect on or something.

Carry on.

[Ryeissa]

Rye, I love balance balls and I really airboats riders who use them, but core is not crotch imho. Unless I am misunderstanding what is meant by " cop a feel".

autocorrect gone wild! Hahahahah..............

Right, I am talking about the tone we need to allow us to sit straight.

This involves an active core, which to me includes the abs, pelvis, and seat. This is a core as the center of the body, much more than just ab muscles.

The reason we put the hands under the seatbones on the balance ball is to feel the uneven weight. It's not about the crotch at all, it's about feeling the whole side of the body tilted. The solution for this is in the core/trunk.

I also like the balance ball as it loosens up my back and neck. The bouncing brings blood flow and looseness while the motion gently allows my muscles some resistance as I attempt to stay in a good posture during that motion. It's not for everyone, but this program has been a miracle for me, I'm riding better in the last 6 months and made more progress than in the last 10 yrs.

Of course, this is just one sliver of the program.

This has allowed me to be sill and relaxed. I don't get as tired after riding, or as sore. Its really positive tone/positive tension.