Lengthening the neck

[mld02004]

I have an Anglo Arab who is prone to getting really short in the neck when tense. She does the Arabian spooky high head set when tense. She also has a thick throat latch area which doesn't help. We don't have this problem in non-show environments (home or at instructor's), in fact she's often too long/strung out! At shows, she goes above the bit sometimes, or even behind it depending on her mood. It is difficult for me to fix at shows because I'm never sure what I will get until the show arena.

We are showing second and really getting dinged for the short neck even though the test is very accurate. In the past I've tried longer reins but then the connection isn't good. I feel like to go between really short or no connection. Any suggestions for getting her to relax and lengthen her neck while maintaining the connection?

[piedmontfields]

I don't have quite the neck "emergency" situation you are describing, but I am familiar with it from some Friesians in our barn! I have an Iberian WB and have some similar challenges.

Here is the basic toolkit I've been taught (thank you JJ Tate, Charles de K and students of the same!):

1. Whoa aka half halt or full halt if needed.
2. Give room with hands.
3. GO (leg on/back-up with whip if needed)

This series happens in quick succession. Basically, you are telling horse, no, not there---the door is HERE and GO!!!

Hope this makes sense. It takes tons of repetition, but it is amazing how quickly you can see a difference. There are of course also lesser degrees of this which can come into play when the shortening is less extreme.

I'll try to post in a separate thread about our connection progress, as your comments are familiar to us!

[Chisamba]

Well, in addition to the above, I have found keeping the poll up and the nose slightly ahead of the vertical into contact is key. This is not necessarily a high head, if the horse will work into a muzzle of the horse should not be higher than your knee, maintaining this with lifting the inside rein but not maintaining a held hands, lift and then return.

Then you do your half halt, or transition, without closing the throat. And then forward. So that the horse has ability took develop roundness from behind, not visa shortening there neck.

What is important is to offer stretch as a reward for good work.

It's quite difficult to describe.

[galopp]

Any horse which tends to have an arab type conformation which has a long neck/slightly high set/usually thin throatlatches (arab/friesan/etc) need to spend a longer period of time (not just minutes each day, but like 6 months) of sustaining a slightly longer but mostly more open posture. (Still mouth height of point of hip but following the hand again and again (and again) Work in hand helps: First very high until the more mobilizes the jaw and pushes into the hand, which will lower the horse. Then lateral flexility (in hand in millimeters, and on large figures). Those two things allow the rider to be able to then control the lengthening of the posture. Going above the bit is dealt with in the same manner. It sounds problematic but by making the horse much higher and more open (in hand) and ridden (if necessary) they will start to CHOOSE to longer/lower/open posture which gives the rider 'address' to the function of the hind legs.
. Until this happens imho collection is impossible, because they will merely 'give the neck' (shorten/compress) and not fold the hind legs.

[leheath8]

What galopp describes is how I work my young horse. She has a somewhat shorter neck and is naturally high headed (lots of Shagya-Arabian blood). She is also super unpredictable at shows (some days it feels like I'm riding a dump truck, other days a Ferrari, with no hint ahead of time of which I'll have when I get one!) so I understand how tricky that can be! Fortunately, she is getting more reliable through consistent mobilization of the jaw and teaching the horse to push into the hand as galopp describes. This allows me to develop a consistent response to my demi arrete, even when she is "up" at a show. Sometimes, I have to repeat that demi arrete many times, but it takes fewer and fewer "reminders" as she develops and it also allows me to actually harness the extra energy for more expressive gaits rather than losing it in tension.

[Ryeissa]

Yes, I could write a novel about this. Provide support but OPEN THE ELBOWS FORWARD while keeping them anchored.
It's sort of it's own problem but also a symptom of the whole horse.

Just don't baby the contact in an effort to get the horse "light"- they just keep floating farther behind.

[piedmontfields]

It sounds problematic but by making the horse much higher and more open (in hand) and ridden (if necessary) they will start to CHOOSE to longer/lower/open posture which gives the rider 'address' to the function of the hind legs.
. Until this happens imho collection is impossible, because they will merely 'give the neck' (shorten/compress) and not fold the hind legs.

Galopp, this a a great summary. I welcome commentary on my "lived experience" of this process. When I first started with my mare, I felt that I felt we needed to work in an open/above the bit posture. This was so different for her than the slack rein/behind the bit habits she had when she came to me. Then she began to seek a longer, lower posture and was willing to connect to the bit although it was in what felt like a "too low" position. This was the point that I felt like I was riding her "too round and too low", but things were also changing about connection and energy. I personally found this a confusing period. After some months of this, she became capable of actually connecting *and* using her hind legs at the same time---so her poll and wither are higher. So she now looks kind of "normal" (although it is a work in progress!) I don't think we could have started at the place we are now---just as you described.

[mld02004]

Yes, I could write a novel about this. Provide support but OPEN THE ELBOWS FORWARD while keeping them anchored.
It's sort of it's own problem but also a symptom of the whole horse.

Just don't baby the contact in an effort to get the horse "light"- they just keep floating farther behind.

Rye, can you explain about open/forward?

Totally agreed about babying contact.

[mld02004]

What galopp describes is how I work my young horse. She has a somewhat shorter neck and is naturally high headed (lots of Shagya-Arabian blood). She is also super unpredictable at shows (some days it feels like I'm riding a dump truck, other days a Ferrari, with no hint ahead of time of which I'll have when I get one!) so I understand how tricky that can be! Fortunately, she is getting more reliable through consistent mobilization of the jaw and teaching the horse to push into the hand as galopp describes. This allows me to develop a consistent response to my demi arrete, even when she is "up" at a show. Sometimes, I have to repeat that demi arrete many times, but it takes fewer and fewer "reminders" as she develops and it also allows me to actually harness the extra energy for more expressive gaits rather than losing it in tension.

Are you riding my horse at shows? Are you doing this work under saddle?

Thanks everyone, this is really helpful. Glad to know I am not alone.

[mld02004]

I don't have quite the neck "emergency" situation you are describing, but I am familiar with it from some Friesians in our barn! I have an Iberian WB and have some similar challenges.

Here is the basic toolkit I've been taught (thank you JJ Tate, Charles de K and students of the same!):

1. Whoa aka half halt or full halt if needed.
2. Give room with hands.
3. GO (leg on/back-up with whip if needed)

This series happens in quick succession. Basically, you are telling horse, no, not there---the door is HERE and GO!!!

Hope this makes sense. It takes tons of repetition, but it is amazing how quickly you can see a difference. There are of course also lesser degrees of this which can come into play when the shortening is less extreme.

I'll try to post in a separate thread about our connection progress, as your comments are familiar to us!

I think the tricky part for me is the give room with hands....usually I give too much or not enough! I feel like in an effort to lengthen I either give it all away or get too tight. The later usually happens at shows.

[piedmontfields]

It is tricky! I really think that it takes practice even off the horse (in your mind) and tons of repetitions on the horse. In fact, it can be shocking how many repetitions it takes! And you are correct that giving room is not dropping...but it is an "opening".

I do think refinement happens with practice. There's a point where you have to forgive yourself and try again if you lengthened the neck but lost the connection. It will come. It can also be very helpful to have someone on the ground give you feedback about whether the neck actually lengthened.

[Chisamba]

The stride will lengthen if the neck lengthens, but should not speed up.

That is how I tell true lengthening of the neck.

I think it's truly key to be able to do transitions without shortening the neck. Then you know your hind end is engaging in the transition.

[galopp]

I agree in part, if the neck lengthens AND the throat latch opens, then the stride can be freer (perhaps lengthen). But if the neck lengthens but the bearing stays the same, the stride will likely not change much. mho

Agree that the horse should stay out to the hand within transitions. But if the hind leg joints are flexing the horse might become more lifted/free.

[leheath8]

What galopp describes is how I work my young horse. She has a somewhat shorter neck and is naturally high headed (lots of Shagya-Arabian blood). She is also super unpredictable at shows (some days it feels like I'm riding a dump truck, other days a Ferrari, with no hint ahead of time of which I'll have when I get one!) so I understand how tricky that can be! Fortunately, she is getting more reliable through consistent mobilization of the jaw and teaching the horse to push into the hand as galopp describes. This allows me to develop a consistent response to my demi arrete, even when she is "up" at a show. Sometimes, I have to repeat that demi arrete many times, but it takes fewer and fewer "reminders" as she develops and it also allows me to actually harness the extra energy for more expressive gaits rather than losing it in tension.

Are you riding my horse at shows? Are you doing this work under saddle?

Thanks everyone, this is really helpful. Glad to know I am not alone.

Yes, I am now doing this work under saddle, but initially started in hand. Once the idea was established in hand, I transferred it to under saddle.

[Ryeissa]

Yes, I could write a novel about this. Provide support but OPEN THE ELBOWS FORWARD while keeping them anchored.
It's sort of it's own problem but also a symptom of the whole horse.

Just don't baby the contact in an effort to get the horse "light"- they just keep floating farther behind.

Rye, can you explain about open/forward?

Totally agreed about babying contact.

the elbows open and close. the hands need to be up and out in front of the withers. The trick is to keep the stable plugged in elbow while allowing it to open and close (the actual joint).

The hands physically move farther away from the body at times-- really really ride the neck long with in a short rein. It doesn't look like anything is happening, the hands don't float all over of course!

[mld02004]

Ah, yes, I know what you mean and I struggle with keeping it plugged in and close to my body. I have been really focusing on lengthening the neck while keeping the contact the last few rides and see some improvement.

[Ryeissa]

Ah, yes, I know what you mean and I struggle with keeping it plugged in and close to my body. I have been really focusing on lengthening the neck while keeping the contact the last few rides and see some improvement.

the horse should be pushing into your hand as you take them forward. Sounds obvious, yes, but that is the crux of this whole deal. that of course is a "whole horse" idea.

[Mareless]

Yes, I could write a novel about this. Provide support but OPEN THE ELBOWS FORWARD while keeping them anchored.
It's sort of it's own problem but also a symptom of the whole horse.

Just don't baby the contact in an effort to get the horse "light"- they just keep floating farther behind.

Rye, can you explain about open/forward?

Totally agreed about babying contact.

the elbows open and close. the hands need to be up and out in front of the withers. The trick is to keep the stable plugged in elbow while allowing it to open and close (the actual joint).

The hands physically move farther away from the body at times-- really really ride the neck long with in a short rein. It doesn't look like anything is happening, the hands don't float all over of course!

I try to visualize my elbows as being made of a piece of elastic. My lower arms (and hands) are attached to my upper arms by a piece of elastic where my elbows are. That seems to help me keep my elbows in place, but remember to follow the horse's mouth with my hands. In this mental image the elbows don't move, but they are able to 'give' in response to the horse, just as an elastic waistband doesn't move from it's place at the top of the pants or shorts but it gives in response to pressure.

[galopp]

The upper arms go from hanging vertically and through the shoulder socket and elbow joint allow however much the horse offers (early on). A 'complete' bascule. The degree of allow changes when following free walk (on loose rein and on long rein), to the changing balance of medium walk, to collected walk (the horse is more lifted and arched), but the hands to not stay out in front of the withers. It is like a push me-pull me; the horse takes the joints forward, and then the rider allows the return. (And the rider is following the mouth (the angle of a slide, not the ears (not horizontal).)