Aids during canter

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Iminthebarn
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Aids during canter

Postby Iminthebarn » Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:02 pm

I struggle with understanding of the timing of my leg aids during canter. I use my outside leg to get the outer hind more underneath, and I use my inside to get more inside hind underneath. I think I should apply the aids when all the legs are off the ground. And I believe I should be using my inside to create more jump, also when the legs are off the ground. Is this right? Or should I apply my aids when the inside fore hits the ground? Recently a judge commented that the timing of my aids in canter needs to create some self-carriage and lightness. Would anyone like to discuss this? TIA.

galopp
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Re: Aids during canter

Postby galopp » Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:41 pm

The placement of the legs (inside closer to the girth/outside back) for the depart is not about what they do during the canter. The inside leg is the 'gas', the 'fluffed' of the quality of canter. And outside leg is passively down and back (if used the horse will easily become crooked). The aid to energise comes during the weight being phase, right before air time. Pushing the horse with the horse is already in the air cannot change the folding of the joints.

Self carriage and lightness are a different topic, that comes because the hh fold all the hind leg joints, the horse goes into the effect of the outside rein, and the inside rein can then test the validity of the self carriage.

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Chisamba
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Re: Aids during canter

Postby Chisamba » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:05 pm

most often when judges comment on timing of the canter aid, they are talking about preparation and accuracy, it is unlikely that they can see when you actually applied the aid, they mostly can see the result.

However for training, refining your canter aid is important now, if you ever plan to do tempi changes.

The horse pushes off into the canter with its outside hind leg, that is commonly accepted as the first stride of the canter. You should have a good connection with the outside rein ( this connection is achieved by slight inside flexion and inside leg. So you have inside leg to outside rein, then you slide your outside leg back, as the outside hind leaves the ground ( this is how I do it, Galopp always argues with me about it) so that when the outside hind hits the ground it folds and pushes off into the canter stride.

but honestly, in practicality, its about the horse understanding that a transition is coming, so its all about the preparation. if your prep is correct even if your timing is slightly off, the horse will still take the canter when its hind foot pushes off the ground

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Re: Aids during canter

Postby kande50 » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:35 am

I've never corrected my horse for offering to canter (just don't reward him for it) so he canters easily. And it does seem to be mostly about positioning, because I most often get canter when I'm trying to get shoulder in so am bending him to the inside and using my inside leg.

I've also been working on bending him and then asking him to trot from that position, so can no longer help keep the trot and canter cues straight just by keeping him straight for trot and bent for canter.

I haven't been working on canter at all lately, but when I do he offers canter even more easily, so I usually spend some time just trying to clear up the difference between the cues for trot vs canter.

galopp
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Re: Aids during canter

Postby galopp » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:58 am

Whether one chooses to depart from inside or outside leg is not the question however. And I think a case can be made for both. For sure the leg positioning is the same regardless. But the OP was asking about aids DURING the canter, and the 'accelerator' for sure is the inside leg.

As far as positioning (in position or to shoulder fore/etc), it is useful because the horse is straightened as a refinement. That said, the inside rein may suggest lateral flexion, but it should not be about bending. If there is too much bend (esp in the neck) the horse will fall over the outside shoulder.

Iminthebarn
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Re: Aids during canter

Postby Iminthebarn » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:05 pm

Thank you for your replies! Yes, it's the aids used DURING the canter that I was curious about. I'm very happy with my transitions, but I'm now on the perpetual path of IMPROVING the canter.

khall
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Re: Aids during canter

Postby khall » Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:23 pm

I found this very helpful.
https://youtu.be/Fbbm_U9MdPc

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Chisamba
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Re: Aids during canter

Postby Chisamba » Mon Oct 10, 2016 8:25 pm

my apologies. I misread. During the canter i use my seat, usually lightly, to ask for the horse to move more uphill and in balance, if i use my legs i use them at the same time, in position, yes, i apply the aid when the horse is in the weight bearing phase, i will use more of one leg, or the other if the horse is carrying its hind left or right, and i wish to straighten them, i too discourage extra bend, because the horse does not develop uphill if its outside shoulder is out of alignment. one must have flexion to effectively use the outside rein. however all aids, degree and application really depend on what the horse is doing, and what the rider wishes to accomplish. as usual the least aid needed should be used

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Re: Aids during canter

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:01 pm

Iminthebarn wrote:Thank you for your replies! Yes, it's the aids used DURING the canter that I was curious about. I'm very happy with my transitions, but I'm now on the perpetual path of IMPROVING the canter.


as far as aids to improve- similiar to gallopp- fluffing inside, create the inside/outside arrangement (based on your horses' asymmetries)- but generally the old standard inside leg and hip forward/outside hip back. Think of doing HI with out doing HI.

I use my seat differently as far as sitting in the saddle, but that is not quite the question you are asking, right?

the biggest things that helped my horse's quality of canter, besides getting a better seat overall was not hanging on both reins and really giving one side if I am taking the other, and sitting into the bend with that side of my body- thigh, seat bone, hip flexors, abs (upper and lower). Sort of the idea behind why shoulder fore is so helpful.

I try to fluff the inside of the horse when the inside hind is just going to come off, but I'm not the best with timing.

Bats79
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Re: Aids during canter

Postby Bats79 » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:13 am

Position for the best return of energy from the hindquarter to the forehand and into lift is shoulder fore with balance. Inside leg for energy unless the horse has a bad problem with moving to the outside and in that case both legs at the girth for energy. Hands should be receiving, up and forward.

Legs should be returning to passive asap prior to counter canter and then lateral work.

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Flight
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Re: Aids during canter

Postby Flight » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:03 am

I just use inside leg during the canter, but they have to be responsive to your leg otherwise you get nothing. Occasionally I will tap with the whip on the inside behind my leg to get a bit more energy. I tend to do it on the 'up' stage of canter, but now I will have to think about when I should be doing it :) Good topic!


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