Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

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Sue B
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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Sue B » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:27 pm

Flight, send me a link when you can, i would LOVE to watch it and be inspired about my own horse! I too wear my jacket in the heat; I think it looks much nicer than shirt only (I don't have a show vest.) Guess I'm just old school. Thank you for sharing the photos, your horse is starting to look like a body builder! :lol:

Impirini, love your posts. I am glad the video tip helped you with your riding. keep up the good work and share some pictures once in awhile. :P

Last few days we have had rain and freezing rain, so everything is under water and/or a skating rink. Supposed to be above freezing all week though, so maybe the ground will thaw a bit and soak up some of the water. Jingle for me. Meanwhile, on the first above freezing day without rain, Tio removed his Rhino blanket and completely shredded it. Turd butt! There are bits of blanket and filling scattered all over the north pasture now. He better hope we're done with the cold cuz I ain't buying him another one! :twisted:

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby khall » Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:13 pm

Flight wow!! That is fabulous! Your guy looks great.

I hate wearing jackets and here in the deep south with high humidity I would gladly do without at a show! In fact I tend to just show at schooling shows so I don't have to "dress up" (hate white breeches!).

The big guy abscessed where he impaled his frog with his shoe nails, vet came out and dug it out today. Doing very well with his treatments, please continue to jingle that he gets better with all of this! Throwing pretty much all I can at him to get him well. Going GMO free foods, herbs for support and naproxine along with the pred to help with the allergic response then the stem cells that I hope will address the scaring.

Went to the Bettina Drummond and Colonel Patrick Teisserenc (head rider at Saumur) and really enjoyed it. Loved Col Teisserenc, he was so much about a long neck and relaxation, reminded me so much of Mark. He would have the rider reach up with both hands to stroke the neck giving a big release each time. He did not want to see the horses with a short neck and compressed gaits, kept having them release the reins. Some interesting exercises for engagement, if the horse was not wanting to use a hind leg in piaffe he asked for it in HI or SI depending on which hind leg and which direction the horse was going.

Bettina asks much of both riders and horses. Some lovely lovely horses there from WBs to baroques, with higher level training. All for the most part had FCs, piaffe some passage and CPs, really good to watch her corrections to riders on seat especially in the piaffe. Shoulders are brakes, mid back is clutch and seat is driving aids. Soft leg, hard for some to execute. Glad we went, beautiful place (Maryal Barnett's place I think) She is learning from Bettina, bought a Portugues stallion who is just a lovely horse. Pretty black! Hilary Clayton was there riding on a cute baroque horse. The others were pro's that I was not familiar with learning from Bettina, often on Bettina's own horses.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:05 pm

I love seeing/reading the progress reports! Well done, Flight. And continued jingles for your herd, khall. Thank you for your clinic report---it sounds amazing!

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Gwen » Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:00 pm

Hello all! Finally registered, but have been stopping in occasionally since the other board went - so many familiar "faces"!

I just wanted to say that I love this thread series and the discussions that result, particularly reading about the trials and tribulations of every ride and the general tone of support and cheering of successful rides, and "ugh, been there" for the less successful ones. I get so much out of reading that I was feeling weird about lurking instead of participating.

My horse (Callie) and I are currently preparing to show 2nd this summer, and schooling 3rd with half a squinty eye at maybe showing 3rd by the end of the season, depending on (of course!) the changes.

For this month, goals:
- Sort out saddle issues!!! We are progressing and having good rides with current set up but the saddle isn't stable, so she's getting rubs under the back panels, seems to get pinched at the withers, and it also tends to slide up her shoulders. Trying another one tomorrow - sacrifices to the gods of saddle fit and sensitive mares are always appreciated!

- Get canter/walk more solid/consistent
- Get drama free changes more consistently
- Keep working towards more uphill balance and lightness in the contact - Callie is small (15.0) and quick, but built downhill so it's tricky for her.

In spite of the saddle issues we've had some very good rides this week. Two clean, totally drama free changes yesterday in our lesson, one in each direction!! And some really wonderful light and balanced canter SF, HI, and half pass today, without even a hint that she might lose balance and break into trot, which is relatively new.

My latest discovery is just how quick and light my half halts have to be to keep that feeling of lifted shoulders with the hind end coming under, and how much EASIER (duh) everything is when I get it.

An exercise im finding really useful right now has been half pass away from the wall to quarter line, leg yield back, or vice versa, in trot and canter, maintaining the same bend throughout. It lightens Callie up a lot, and it helped me refine my aids and really better understand the aids for HP in particular.

Anyway, greetings, thanks for the discussion and for letting me join in!

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Gwen » Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:53 pm

Khall, thank you for the clinic report, I was thinking of it and gave the both hands up to stroke the neck after our first change yesterday, which I think helped release tension from the effort and made the change going the other way (the hard way!) more willing and smooth. I had been letting her walk after a good change, but I think she appreciated this more, it maintained flow and focus much better.

Jingles and healing vibes for your horses!

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby paownyc » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:15 am

khall wrote:Went to the Bettina Drummond and Colonel Patrick Teisserenc (head rider at Saumur) and really enjoyed it. Loved Col Teisserenc, he was so much about a long neck and relaxation, reminded me so much of Mark. He would have the rider reach up with both hands to stroke the neck giving a big release each time. He did not want to see the horses with a short neck and compressed gaits, kept having them release the reins. Some interesting exercises for engagement, if the horse was not wanting to use a hind leg in piaffe he asked for it in HI or SI depending on which hind leg and which direction the horse was going.

Bettina asks much of both riders and horses. Some lovely lovely horses there from WBs to baroques, with higher level training. All for the most part had FCs, piaffe some passage and CPs, really good to watch her corrections to riders on seat especially in the piaffe. Shoulders are brakes, mid back is clutch and seat is driving aids. Soft leg, hard for some to execute. Glad we went, beautiful place (Maryal Barnett's place I think) She is learning from Bettina, bought a Portugues stallion who is just a lovely horse. Pretty black! Hilary Clayton was there riding on a cute baroque horse. The others were pro's that I was not familiar with learning from Bettina, often on Bettina's own horses.


I was there, too! And, I also really enjoyed the Colonel.

Hilary Clayton's horse is a Lusitano. His barn name is Donzi, and I agree that he's really cute!

It was at MaryAnn MacPhail's. Wasn't it gorgeous?

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Chisamba » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:09 am

Gwen, so happy so see you participating again.

Khall, the clinic sounds inspirational.

Flight, I too would like to see your test links.

I let Kimba play in the indoor. I took various pictures of her trotting as she offered, of her own accord, various different postures. Ir gave me a chance to see her back, and carriage.

I will share when I have a chance.
Last edited by Chisamba on Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Anne » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:50 am

Hah hah Chisamba, I'm trying to imagine the lovely Kimba 'iffeting' in the arena! Looking forward to the pics :-) [yeah yeah, I'm sure it's meant to be 'offered'!]

Very much enjoying everyone's updates. Flight, what a super score for your first medium test!! Khall, the clinic sounds super, you guys are lucky to have access to such interesting teachers.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Chisamba » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:51 pm

I am sorry Anne, i am really bad at self editing my posts when i post from my phone, however i think i might like the word iffeting. I shall adopt it for when the horses iffet around in play :)

first pic, Kimba was very up and still full of snort. I will call this one her iffeting trot. I find it interesting to see the posture of her head and neck, the scope of her stride, and the shape of her back. to me she looks glamorous and active, but not in a way that would carry a rider well.
Image

in this trot she has relaxed and is offering more of what i might call a working trot. A slightly lower more relaxed posture and a difference in the muscle tone over the back.

Image

and in this photo she is stretching through the topline

Image I have been trying to get her to offer this posture two or three times a ride, because i like how she is still uphill but you can actually see the back muscles " fill in" as it were, and be more engaged.

in still photos Kimba is actually built downhill and when i started her she was a pacer, particularly when asked to canter, so I do like the natural grace of her trot now.

this one is just for fun, vroom vroom.

Image

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Chisamba » Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:52 pm

I edited the above post three times, if i still have mistakes in grammar and spelling, i simply apologize and bow down do the superior grammarians.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby PaulaO » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:50 pm

The picture of Kimba using her back is extremely educational. Thanks for posting.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Anne » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:31 pm

apologies definitely not needed! I love the photos, and I reckon iffeting is a great term for Kimba's big trot. Thanks for putting up the photos :-)

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Moutaineer » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:57 am

We've been doing some iffeting, too. Particularly last night. They didn't get to go out yesterday because the entire property was a sheet of ice, so he was pretty perky anyway, then the wind started howling and the hail was pounding down on the roof of the indoor... Well, shit, it was go to focused work or die.

A good lesson this evening. We worked on canter collection, more collection and yet more collection, and straightness, (small squares with quarter pirouettes at the corners, straight lines between, hard work!) and then had a bash at the canter half pass, just for giggles. And, it would seem to be our easy thing :)

We had an impromptu super nice, clean flying change in our difficult direction tonight, too. Whilst it shouldn't have happened when it did, it proves to me that it can be done, and that of course the quality of the canter, collection and straightness are indeed the key...

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Dresseur » Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:56 pm

I love iffeting! Perfect word!

Gwen, welcome back, and Flight, please do share!

Everything has been trucking along pretty smoothly in my world except for the 2s on Gala. I'm twisting or something, she's not straight enough - can't put my finger on it, but the 4s, 3s and 1s all work. It's like there's enough time in the 4s and 3s for me to fix things and not enough time in the 1s for things to go wrong. :lol: So, the 2s have just enough time for things to go wrong and not enough time for me to fix... :oops:

With Miro, we had a lovely 3 days at Andrea's. He's been doing all of the right things, but there was something that I wasn't in love with in the feel of his back. It had the slightest sag too it, just a bit casual if I had to put my finger on it. I finally had Andrea sit on him to feel it, and she agreed - so the order of the weekend was to quicken up the hind end a bit to really have him drive up and fire with those hinds. That made all of the wobbliness go away in the lateral movements and really cleaned up the transitions. And, his small lengthenings, which are always impressive even at this stage of the game, felt amazing. What I find to be interesting are these 2 pics. The first is day 1, the 2nd is day 3 with the adjustments to quickening up the hind.

The first pic is very nice, but the second that you compare it to the second pic, you can see that it's a bit underpowered, a bit downhill in the shoulder, whereas the second pic looks strong, connected and very uphill in the shoulder. The feel in the bridle was much better too, while he's a tiny bit more compressed in the 2nd pic, he was actually much lighter in the hand and all I had to do was allow. Goes to show you how important the hind end is.
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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby khall » Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:53 pm

Very nice change dresseur! You can definitely tell in the second pic that Miro is engaging his sling, the bottom line is shorter than in the first pic. I agree with the bit of compression, would like to see a more open throat latch, but really really nice change.

Glad the clinic report helped with your ride Gwen, I so enjoyed how the Col taught.

Chis- fun pictures! Some good comparison photos there.

paownyc that was a gorgeous facility, gave me covered arena envy! I loved the differences between the two in teaching. Some great horses and nice riding to watch.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Sue B » Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:14 pm

So it snowed 6" on Tuesday then warmed up and started raining. Schools now closed due to flooded roads. This is why I
STILL can't ride despite it warming up . Hope these pictures cool you off a bit Flight. I know you guys are in the middle of summer.
Sorry the pictures are so big, not good at resizing.

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Road to my house, neighbor's field running into my pasture!
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My arena next to my Mom's little house
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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Flight » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:19 am

Khall, continuing jingles for your lot and hope the abscess heals up easily.

Interesting pics of Kimba, as well as being just pretty too look at, it's good to look more closely at the muscling etc. Thanks for sharing.

Dresseur, again you talk about stuff I need to work on. I've noticed this 'sag' in my horse and even at times if I pause video his hindlegs are out behind. So, I've got to concentrate a lot more on his hind end. It's a slow process with me learning it all for the first time, and not truly appreciating how much you need these basics until you move on. Then you have to go back and fix it. Oh well, it's definitely a up and down learning journey for me!

Wowee more snow pics! Yay! So pretty :)

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Gwen » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:44 am

Quickening the hind end is also something we are working on, particularly as we're really starting to spend more time in collected canter and all the work that comes out of that. I'm still learning what the goal is in terms of feel - that collected =\= slower, for example, but also that quickening the hind end doesn't mean quickening the tempo, necessarily. So tricky!

We worked on the square with 1/4 "pirouettes" (I don't think they counted as real ones, lol) the other day, and I started to feel how much I need to keep the inside hind active and stepping under to make the turn correctly, which helped me understand what a collected canter *should* feel like - just a slower canter definitely wasn't going to cut it!

Dresseur, was there anything specific you worked on to encourage the quicker hind end? I'm assuming transitions within and between gaits?

Does anyone else have any favorite go to's?

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Dresseur » Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:38 am

Flight, if you can feel that, you have won half the battle! I was feeling it, and my instinct was that he was being lazy behind, but didn't want to start jazzing him up without talking to my coach first since I don't want to over face him.

Gwen, yes, you're absolutely right with the collection =\= slow and that the hind end can be firing without making the temp hectic. In terms of what we did:
#1. In hand work (trot/halts). This was for 2 reasons. One, you can get the hind to snap up since you are touching with the whip, and you can do the transitions pretty rapid fire and make sure that the horse is not landing in your hands. This is a game changer for a lot of horses.
#2. Sharp transitions under saddle again trot/halt. What he was doing was not quite landing them, and then rearranging his feet to be square. We got a bit more exact - that he had to land it, not just rearrange his feet. These were also quick, we treated the halts almost as pauses so that he was instantly ready to move off again, and then took the time to settle the trot before asking for another halt.
#3. Transitions within gaits - this wasn't a huge focus just because he's not really collecting at this point. But, when we came off of the small lengthenings in trot and canter, I made sure that he didn't slow down at all.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby khall » Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:24 am

This is a timely and interesting discussion re engagement and lift via activating the hind legs. I have been concentrating on this with Rip (before his treatment) both under saddle and on line, somewhat in hand but that is harder for me. Asking for energy from the hind legs but making sure I do not stop him in the front. Rip is not one to power through me so I can activate without having to hang onto his face, in fact I can let a drape in the rein a bit. I don't use my seat to activate but think of "fluffing" him up with my calves. Gallop years ago talked about this and it stuck with me, the fluffing that is! I have spent much time getting Rip light to my leg aids so I can use light aids to activate him. I also use half steps for engagement and activity. You end up with really engaged canter from half steps!

Thanks Flight for the well wishes, Rip is sound after the abscess, getting tired of the twice daily nebulizing treatments (I am too!) still have 7-8 more days to go. Looking forward to seeing how he has responded to the treatment when I can put him back into work.

I have been lunging my filly just a bit and working with her on releasing to the caveson at the stand still. She can be a bit of a fireball, but has the lovely paces that I hoped to get with the crossing.

Stay safe all who are in the storm path both east and west coast.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Moutaineer » Fri Feb 10, 2017 6:26 am

Sue B my stalls look like your neighbor's field at the moment. I've spent the evening outside in the dark with a pickaxe again trying to make drainage channels through the ice. It's still 48 degrees here at 11pm, and the 4 feet of snow we've got laying around everywhere makes a lot of water when it starts to melt so fast.

My home horses are standing around on their ice mounds feeling put out. I can only do what I can do.

Laddie is a "power through your hands" kind of horse, and it just gets worse if you hang on to him. He's making me learn how to make a truly effective half halt, but to then return to immediately return to neutral without throwing the front end away.

You hit third level and suddenly you can't cruise it any longer, you've got to become a thinking rider! (I think I may have said that about second level too, though...)

Khall, I'm glad Rip is feeling better. Sometimes it just all seems to come at once.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Gwen » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:00 pm

Moutaineer wrote:"You hit third level and suddenly you can't cruise it any longer, you've got to become a thinking rider! (I think I may have said that about second level too, though...)


Ha - yes, for sure! We showed Training/First last season, managed to make it to Finals (at Training), and while we were schooling 2nd throughout and using lateral work in our warmups, I definitely get a bit tunnel visioned trying to perfect a test and a level for showing purposes. I enjoy showing because I need the motivation and the external deadline to keep pushing myself to improve, and in general don't fuss too much about show perfection at the expense of training progression, but when we qualified for Finals in particular I wanted to do the best we could after hauling all that way to not embarrass ourselves!

Anyway, when we got back my trainer said "ok, enough of that cruising around", and I suddenly felt like we had to get on our big girl pants and WORK. I had to readjust my feel of what "through" was, and think and react so much faster, I had to demand more out of my position and body - hello sitting the medium trot!! - and brain, noticing and adjusting *before* losing the shoulder/hind end/outside rein/etc instead of after! And so on. It's so interesting, and tricky because I've now caught up to Callie's prior educational and we are learning together, poor girl!

On the plus side, spending a year on Training, and then another year on 1st (while still showing Training), was necessary for my education and Callie's strength and brain, so I think it was (and of course is theoretically designed to be) very good preparation, and not a waste of time.

I started taking Pilates last year, but this winter I've ramped up my once a week class to 3x and I think it has directly contributed to my ability to keep up. Not just the stronger core and increased flexibility, but the better body awareness and body control has been so important.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Chisamba » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:26 pm

So this week was canter cavaletti week. I was trying to get the feeling of bigger jump in the canter, and better balance. The goal was to sit the canter caveletti, not to half seat , light seat or tip forward. It was a very interesting self study in allowing the hips to follow the horse, and allowing the hands to follow the bit. My goal has been to do more poles and cavaletti since there is a lot of snow on the ground and the indoor can become a bit stale.

Anyway, the take away from the exercise is that jump and activity comes from balance, and that both of my horses might be a bit rushed in the canter. When i slowed them way down coming in, they were able to have plenty of jump, and stay in balance. If they came into the line too quickly, they lost balance. It was also quite a lot more tiring to both the horses and me than I anticipated

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby exvet » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:10 am

We had flu come through our barn which the stinker pony and Jr, the coming 3 year old caught. So my work for the last few weeks has been centered on Mr. Stang, the mustang and the stallion. We've been putting tons of miles on the trails and both have done great. I finally rode stinker pony last Sunday on a trail ride, he was still coughing occasionally (thought he was past it). This weekend though seems to be shaping up rather well. Rode stinker pony last night, still working on passage and the flying changes mostly and he tried so hard. Then today we went on another gorgeous trail ride, stinker and stang. Then I decided the time has come....................

Image

I briefly lounged JR who remembered everything from a couple of months ago. I then mounted and dismounted 3 times with sitting for a few minutes patting down his sides and all over while I sat there. He was so good. His sire was so easy to start and his uncle was the easiest I've ever started. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this one will fall in line with his genetics (dam was pretty easy to start/ride too.....)

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Chisamba » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:47 am

JR looks so grown up and handsome

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby exvet » Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:01 pm

Thank you! He's a typical gangly, weedy and obviously right now hairy little guy at his age; and, even though you can't tell with this picture, he has a ton of bone and is wide sprung. He'll look like a real welsh cob in about 2 years LOL. He got his mother's neck & shoulder and his father's back end; so, regardless of what he ends up maturing into 'that' combination is already proving to have a lot of elasticity and scope of gaits (a lot like his full sister who has an enormous uphill trot). Trail riding seems to be the main discipline in my life right now so we'll see whether or not he eventually makes it to the dressage arena but at least I know the parts are all fitting in with each other in a manner that makes it reasonably doable ;)

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:25 am

What a nice update, exvet! Hope the flu is completely gone soon.

I love the comment "oh I have to think! It's third level". I am totally there. It is funny to me that as we up the work load and experiments, Emi is more into offer passage and piaffe than ever. For her type, I think it is just an expression of trying.

In simple matters, I just came back from a weekend beach vacation (Georgia sea islands) and Emi is perfect. Happy, no injuries, no worries. I love our new barn!!

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Dresseur » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:37 pm

Sigh, yesterday was a kick in the breeches on Gala. The order of the day was trot/passage transitions and it took 45 minutes to figure it out, and while the lesson was learnt, I don't know that it's sunk in. Sigh. I should start a blog :cry:

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Moutaineer » Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:26 pm

Yay, exvet. So nice to have a horse with a good mind.

Dresseur, that's the way it is, isn't it? It'll work out.

On a positive note, we are all heartily glad that the culture on the abscess under the chin of the horse belonging to the barn scapegoat (there's always one in every small barn, and I guess whilst it's her at least I know it's not me...) game back as negative for strangles. It's been a PITA keeping some measure of biosecurity between the barn and the horses at home--one of my old men is 34 and a bit fragile, so I was being cautious.

So. seeing as it's been spring here all week, I switched out of my winter boots with their thicker soles and can apparently no longer ride. What's up with that? I need to ride without stirrups and lengthen my leg, I guess, instead of the quick and dirty fix of jacking them up a hole...

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:12 am

Saw a much more "real-ish" medium in the mirror today. Set-up was lots of canter work including plies and half pass, followed by "miles" of shoulder in/renvers/travers/shoulder in around the arena. Then the diagonals were just there. Thanks to this group's advice if I felt her start to fall down in the extension, I asked for a step of sideways or shoulder in and got her back quickly to continue on the diagonal.

Fun ride in high 60s weather (which is weird).

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Ponichiwa » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:19 pm

Some lovely progress happening. Good job, everyone!

I've mentally recalibrated myself (again... slow learner here, apparently) and am having some fun rides again. However, like Mountaineer, I've swapped out boots after retiring a sad old pair of Ariat Vsports. Now I'm back in slightly stiffer tall boots, I actually have to use my core. Surprising that a change like that makes such a difference in how I sit.

Kiwi is back to happy. She's been cantering up to me to be caught in the field (10ish acres), which is a welcome change from cantering the other way. We are not going to be doing 4tempis by the end of the month, but we do have clean and expressive (but not euphemistically so) changes and that's a win.

It's funny what happens to the things you forget to work on. I had taken Kiwi's extended trots for granted because for a while it was all I could do to get her to trot at a normal working pace. Now that we've been schooling working/collected gaits more consistently, the mediums have gone *poof*. So yesterday when we had a successful half-steps to medium transition without canter steps or going sideways or random goofiness, I was overjoyed. Could have sworn I've already learned these lessons but, well. Nothing like relearning, huh?

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Moutaineer » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:07 pm

We've got some noticeably better, and straighter, collected work going on at both trot and canter, which is grand. However, our little horsie brain seems to be full at the moment, so we can't cope with managing our body in collection AND flying changes. Two steps forward, one step back... This too shall pass.

I have a lesson with trainer's trainer on Saturday, maybe we can address it then.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Dresseur » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:38 pm

I'm lucky enough to be in an area where we got a break from the February cold and got to enjoy temperatures in the mid-60's this weekend. That meant riding outside!!! Miro was, as always, a rockstar and as always, we found ourselves with an audience! I swear he's going to think he needs an entourage everywhere we go :lol:

In my work with him, we had to get a bit strict about him being quicker behind. I really, really feel a difference in how he's using himself and there is a steadiness in the beginnings of the lateral work that wasn't there before. The canter has always been a bit of a bug-a-boo for me a rider. I know that I've said that before, but for the first time, I think that I'm getting somewhere both with my position and with what I need to be feeling and reacting to in the canter. I had a very interesting conversation with Chisamba about some of the break downs in the canter work on Gala and when I explained the troubles that I was having - basically losing the bascule in the canter - she mentioned that she sees a lot of riders get slow outside hands (Chisamba, if you want to elaborate or if I've missed anything, feel free). The gist was that you cannot anchor the outside hand in the half halt, or get too slow with the half halts on the outside. So, her suggestion to me was to try to make the outside hh match the inside hand, so don't let it get slower than the softer inside hand. It has to stay in the same tempo so that it doesn't become an anchor. The visual of this was that by the time the mane starts leaving the neck, I had better have released the outside rein.

I have to say, I had the best canter on Miro that I've ever had. It felt uphill, straighter and more pliable in a good way and I was lucky enough to have some video to double check what I was feeling. The pics are a sequence from one of the long sides :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jixWL0YqU94

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And testing it by giving both hands forward. I will say that I have more work to do to get him to carry the neck out, I love the position he's in when I tested the connection, I clearly have to give more to keep riding that out.
M_canter.jpg
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Also, a clip of where his trot is going. This was after the canters, so a bit wrangly at first, and then it settled nicely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOmrvLLTFz8

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Chisamba » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:46 pm

I enjoyed your videos Dresseur.

Ponichiwa, i too find that when i am really concentrating on one thing, others slide a bit and need to be revisited. I do not think it is possible for me to progress all three gaits equally at the same time.

Mountaineer: good luck with flying changes in collection. Its better, i suspect to have a bit of jump and get them in the more forward gaits, and then rein them in ( see what i did there) for smooth collected changes :)

We too had lovely weather and were able to work in the outdoor riding area for the first time this year. I was happy that Miss Kimba was quite ready to go to work, we even trotted through some snow and lots of puddles without qualm. It was a really nice change of pace from some of the other horses who acted as though they had never been outdoors and never seen a puddle, you know how horses can be to a change, lol.

I am still working on using video to analyse and improve my progress, and am thinking of trying to get a clinician to our small barn for an injection of oomph for all of us. That said I have put out a few feelers.

I do want to show Kimba this year, having only taken her out twice, and done training level, I am just not quite sure where to start, perhaps first level, she is working quite well on collected gaits, transitions, shoulder in, etc. In my ambitious youth I used to wait to show till i was ready for third, claiming in my arrogance that true dressage only started at third.

I might be a lot less arrogant and ambitious now .

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Moutaineer » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:20 pm

"True Dressage" in the show ring is only going to happen with a horse that is happy and comfortable going to shows, IMHO. So getting out there and doing it at the lower levels is pretty important! (Same goes for riders :))

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Gwen » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:19 pm

I'm enjoying reading all the updates! Sounds like it's been a good week or two of rides.

I've been super sick so didn't even see my horses for a solid week, but I rode yesterday - still very weak. Had a lesson today and i seem to have regained some vigor because I made it through, including attempting what felt like a gazillion changes. The up side to being sick is that my trainer gets on her, so Callie seems (for the time being) to be over the "I can only change if I buck" stage. So now I just have to figure out how the heck to ask for them! I tend to overgrip with my leg when Im unsure, which of course muddies up my leg aid. But we got some - not all by any means! - but some, and none with a buck so I'll call it a win.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Gwen » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:46 pm

On the plus side, I was so happy yesterday with how easy the canter lateral work felt, in the past it's been tricky but she really seems to have developed the strength and balance well. We did canter SI, 10 meter circle to HI, and it was so easy it may as well have been in trot. so I'm super pleased with the progress we've made this winter on that.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby khall » Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:16 am

I was able to ride Rip this week and he felt great. Just a bit of snorting from the upper airway issue but nothing that disruptive. Was able to WTC with some lovely lovely collected canter work made me very happy! Trying to work him lightly until he is scoped on the 27th, please jingle for a good scope!

Have been riding my mare Gaila Rip's full sister. Had some nice SI R which is her difficult side and good trot HP both directions. She is so funny though, all this "work" is a bit much for her and if I quit riding she just stops! Gaila would rather be sitting on the couch eating bon bons I do believe. She knows a good bit though, just encouraging her to keep at it. One of the smoothest trots to sit I have ever owned.

Rode my older mare Gallie just bareback for kicks, all the lateral work is still there no trouble. She is a funny old gal with a good motor.

Lunging my filly still and working her off the top of the round pen some. Need to drag out the toys that I use for despooking exposure. Big ball, tarp etc.

edited to ad: dresseur I have found in the canter that I get a much better canter when I can have a bit of drape or at least a lighter contact. Rip gets actually more collected with better clarity in the gait. It is too easy to compress him with the reins, which stops the hind legs from staying active. Even just lowering the hands a bit to soften the rein is often enough without having to give forward both hands. I do like the uberstreiken though, to test their carriage.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Imperini » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:04 pm

We moved barns today so the rest of the month will probably just be adjustment time. She made me laugh because she's on individual turnout for the moment to get settled into the new place but she's next to another paddock of horses. I showed her the fences and then let her go, all the other horses were running around and she watched them for a minute then spotted hay. So all the horses right next to her are running around like maniacs and she's standing there quietly munching on hay in a brand new place.

I felt like I had made good progress in more forward with less ask but I have to say I had just the most awful ride last night! :lol: Can't win them all I guess. It got "warm" this last week (woohoooo) so she has no cold weather energy and I could barely even keep her cantering when I first asked for it. I ended up just kicking her up into what would probably not be described as a gallop but it was the best I could do and then I got some better work after that to call it a ride, but I was disappointed and frustrated for sure.

I believe part of my issues are also because I've made some minor changes to my position and after riding a certain way for so long it's really taking some effort to change. Firstly I tend to lean back too much, which is funny because as so often happens my first horse was not appropriate for a beginner and I spent a long time after him working toward not leaning forward defensively and guess I took it a little too far. I also tend to draw up my heels and move my leg back when I try to use it, so I'm trying to be really mindful of not doing that, unfortunately it's not made any easier by the lazy polka dot monster! haha Finally I tend to end up with my hands in my lap so trying to remember to keep them out of my lap as well as bend the elbows when I post so my hands aren't all over the place (it seems a lot different when my hands aren't in my lap). All these changes are making me feel like a horrible floppy blob who has no idea how to ride :D In turn I think Pal is noticing I don't feel entirely secure all the time and is using the opportunity to expend less energy. I figure at some point though my body will get with the program and then maybe Pal too.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Gwen » Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:58 pm

Khall, I'm so glad to hear your crew seems to have recovered well! I know what you mean about the feeling of getting lighter for more self carriage in the canter, I've felt that as well with my horse. The lighter I can get in the contact, the better she carries herself.

Imperini, I have struggled with very similar issues - my mare likes to get behind the leg, and i also lean back too much (after always being too forward!) and draw my leg up when I'm not getting the response I want.

We've largely solved this by getting really disciplined about go is GO, and she is responsible for keeping the gait without me. This meant (and occasionally still means!) more direct confrontation than I am generally comfortable with - she really liked putting around ignoring my leg, it was a lot less work, and she definitely objected to the new world order. But I was spending too much of the ride coaxing her forward, letting her "warm up", and the next thing I know it's been 30 minutes! So we had to change the pattern, and have rides where she was forward from the walk on, and I tried to notice every time my position was being compromised and then made that her problem instead of mine. :lol:

I need to remind her every ride, but the reminders are less dramatic and happen from the first time I pick up the rein. Now I can just sit with a draped leg and she motors along, for the most part.

I guess what I'm saying is, you have to take the "lean back, bring the leg up" option away. You have to notice when you want to do it, realize why you want to do it (she's not reacting) and back up the correct leg aid with whip or spur instead. Or at least, that's what worked for us!

Went back to basics today, and had a breakthrough where I realized that while I understand that the outside rein should touch the neck, and the inside rein shouldn't, too often the way I was getting that was by moving *my* hands in relation to her neck, instead of (duh) keeping my hands where they were and channeling her body (and ultimately her neck) where it should be in relation to the reins. So absurdly basic, ride the back of the horse to the front, inside leg to outside hand, etc. But I clearly hadn't fully understood what that mean before, or how to really get it! I love moments like that, and I'm excited about where this will take us.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Chisamba » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:38 pm

Image
Just to show that I have not given up on my lovely Deneb. Today is usually the day i take off from the barn, I still have to feed etc but i do not schedule lessons nor ride. But it was such a stunningly perfect day, lovely weather, no bugs, that i spent my day riding my horses and cleaning tack.

Of course my cleaned horses immediately rolled in the mud when turned out, but if that is what gives them joy, I really cannot complain.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Chisamba » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:05 pm

Lightness does not only come from the rider, the horse has to offer lightness too. If you ride the hind end forward into contact, the green horse will lean into the rein and the trained horse will feel the contact, and lighten to it by lowering the hindquarters and lifting the shoulder through.

There are several ways to get from the first to the second,. Often defined by the " nationality" of famous riders who use the methods.

My point however is that lightness comes from the horse, not the rider throwing away the contact.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby khall » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:50 pm

chisamba I have a very different view of how to achieve lightness then. I have found in my riding with Mark that when I lighten the contact that my horse goes in better self carriage and collection. One way I do this is to just lower my hands, the other is the true uberstreiken to check my horse's self carriage. I do not want my horse to have to rely on my reins to sit more behind that comes from my body position, not the hand. Riding with Mark was always about doing less so the horse did more and to have the horse so tuned into my seat aids so that the horse responded first and foremost to those aids and the reins were not applied. Rip is to this point for the most part. I can have him collect with my seat and leg aids not needing the reins at all, even able to do this on the lunge, harder in hand for me but can get it.

I don't consider what I do "throwing the contact away" it is lightening the contact allowing for greater self carriage in the horse, big difference than to just throw the horse away.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Dresseur » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:17 pm

I think that we had a thread ump lol....

In any case, I think that we can all agree that the lightening or release of the reins is necessary. But, horses aren't born trained, so, when you feel weight, you have to take a hh and release, while simultaneously energizing the hind so that the horse can lighten the shoulder. The end goal is lighter rein contact. For some it's a draped rein, but the process is IMO the same. If you just lighten, without doing anything else, the horse will naturally tip onto the forehand. You need to create a "barrier" to funnel the activity of the hinds and to change the balance/folds the horse's hind joints. If you don't, the horse just falls forward. Through repetition, the horse learns to tune into the preceeding aids and the horse learns to follow the rider's back and seat, but it doesn't start there.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Gwen » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:27 pm

What is a thread ump?

I suspect that what each person is doing to lighten the contact would feel a lot more similar in reality than the language used to describe it?

I agree Khall. Having only (finally) learned in the last year or two not to throw away the contact :lol: I remember what it feels like, and how my horse responds (gets too long and too heavy), so I know that's not what I'm doing when I lighten these days. And if it were, my trainer would not let me get away with it!

I definitely don't have the same level of experience as the rest of you, so I'm probably not describing it well. All I know is, my rein length and hand position stay the same but she is softer and more maneuverable, and feels more lifted, and my trainer is happy too. :lol: I have found, with this mare, that I have to be the first to "offer the olive branch", as it were.

My new and improved understanding of moving her body to the reins, with a much better more honest outside rein connection, made the changes better and more consistent yesterday (along with everything else!) but they still feel impossibly far from confirmed. I think I need to practice more canter departs, just to clarify the aid to myself. I feel like a hot mess every time I ask for the change, which definitely isn't helping her any. :roll:

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Dresseur » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:49 pm

Sorry, thread JUMP!
;) :lol: :lol:

Chisamba had started a thread about lightness and contact and I thought she meant to post her latest reply under that.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Chisamba » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:12 pm

Gwen wrote:What is a thread ump?

I suspect that what each person is doing to lighten the contact would feel a lot more similar in reality than the language used to describe it?

. All I know is, my rein length and hand position stay the same but she is softer and more maneuverable, and feels more lifted, and my trainer is happy too. :lol: I have found, with this mare, that I have to be the first to "offer the olive branch", as it were.
:

To me, this is a great description of the horse lightening to the hand.
Your rein length and hands remain still, and the horse is lighter and more responsive. ( Notice this does not exclude a light or draped rein).

I tend to be pragmatic. Not always well received in dressage discussion.

I train my horses to equate lightness with reward. Like clicking in clicker training, if you will, so that three horse seeks lightness as an understanding of the problem posed.

If I ask a horse to SI for the first time, and they make an attempted, I will offer lightness to show them that the attempted was good. I call it opening the door. However once the horse is trained to SI, I will apply the aids and the horse will offer a light response. Ie my goal in training is for the horse to offer lightness but with connection.

Dresseur I posted on this thread because this is where the conversation was leading. And previously, when I suggested moving theory to a new thread, I was assured that I was wrong and everyone appreciated the diversions.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Flight » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:22 pm

Nice updates everyone, I really like the pics and vids to see Dresseur. I really have to step up and watch carefully now for more subtle things. I've spent so many years doing training level that I have to remind myself that I'm not there anymore and to keep up! If that makes sense.

Great conversation about contact. I struggle with this with one of my horses. I'd love to have a light or draped rein contact, but he is just heavier and if I give too much he just lowers in front. It makes sense in my head now that the horse needs to offer lightness as well (and be rewarded for it).
LOL Chisamba, you can't win with where to post! But I appreciate the input wherever it is :)

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby khall » Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:12 am

Flight that is interesting that your horse lowers more in front when you lighten the rein. Not sure what to make of it. As for contact I don't necessarily change the length of rein, but to lower my hands a bit to lighten the rein, when I do this and activate Rip HQs he engages more and lifts up in his sling with a higher head carriage. He would much rather be down and low and I have to "fluff" him up to make him more active behind which raises his front end, head, neck and shoulders especially when I lower my hands. He has lost a good bit of muscle and weight this winter with what I have been dealing with, trying to work him back up some but judiciously. Not wanting to go too far until his scope Monday see what the vet says.

What Mark used to say with rein aids is you have up/down and rotate the wrist for your aids. If I go up and sustain it (I do do arets to help if Rip gets too curled sometimes) Rip will roll up, so I stay with a lower hand usually. And I lower to top of withers and activate for deeper engagement behind. Like dresseur I too will give forward both reins for a big release to check self carriage and to make sure I am not closing them up, keep the neck long.

Had a nice ride on him today, just playing a bit out in the pasture. I have some gradual slopes that work well for hill work both in trot and canter.

I do know what you are talking about chisamba with forward to the bridle, holding the contact and letting the horse lighten to it. That just does not work so well with Rip because he will roll up with that much contact, why lightening the rein while activating works for him. He and my mare Anna that I lost in October both would/will roll up with the contact, they ride a bit different than my other two who tend to go more above the bit than behind.

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Re: Goals and progress January Febuary 2017

Postby Sue B » Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:59 pm

Flight, some people when they try to give the rein or to lighten, tend to collapse their core a bit. Well ok, maybe not some people, but I have caught myself doing that. You must hold the front of your body up while softening and thinking forward with your arms, a concept I sometimes find difficult to enact. i try to practice while typing at the computer. :lol:

Once again, it is snowing here, but not too hard. The gates to my pasture are again drifted in and I was too lazy to dig them out this weekend i guess. Also I was a little sore from all the shoveling ds and I did on Friday. So still no riding for me. :x


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