Goals and Progress March April 2017

[Chisamba]

So suggestions accepted. Kimba is getting quite good at the more complicated things, but as we get better at those, she tends to loose her relaxation in the simple things. She gets rushy when offered the long rein, and sometimes tosses her head in a sort of "piss off" way, doing the simple stuff, so then i go back to working on the simple stuff, and then she seems to be bored with it and look for things to occupy herself.

I had been working on walk canter transitions, i feel like she does them quite well, but after doing one, or two, when i go to test her stretch to the bridle she rushes, gets a little downhill, if i resume collection and do shoulder in, mini half pass, anything engaging she is right there for me, but again, when i let her have a longer rein, she no longer has that nice elastic stretch.

I have tried changing more often and I have tried working her in the more complicated work longer till she is a little tired and might want to stretch.

thanks for any insight in advance.

[Sue B]

Hey Chisamba, regarding rushing during stretch; is it possible you are either collapsing your core or tipping forward ever so slightly? I know I sometimes struggle with not changing my seat/upper body when asking for the stretch and consequently have trouble with rushing too. If all the stars align and I remain neutral, however, I get lovely stretches. If only I could do it in the show ring. Lol

My goals for this challenge are first off, to ride at least 4x's a week both horses in and out of the arena. For the rider, I plan to focus on draping/wrapping my whole leg around the horse so so that 1) I cannot grip at all with my thighs and 2) I use my leg instead of rein to acquire "throughness". For the horse, I plan to insist upon excellent and immediate response to leg so that Rudy will keep his back up and base of neck soft and remain completely "through." The end goal being a return to solid 2nd lvl for this show season, and maybe dabbling at 3rd. For Tio, we are still at "legs mean go, reins mean stop" and "single leg means step sideways, single rein means turn." As his rider I have to focus on not tipping forward, staying light in the seat, and keeping my hands very quiet and forward. The end goal for this challenge is to canter all the way around the arena in both directions. If all goes well and I have time, I plan to debut Tio at TL this year or at least go to a few Derbies showing at the ground pole/ cross rail level. Wish me luck!

[Chisamba]

Sue B, my aid for remaining in self carriage with dropped rein is to remain upright, otherwise i ask for stretches the Anja Beran way. always have, so i have not changed the way I allow but she has changed her response. i can still ask her to slow down, without shortening the neck but i want her to maintain tempo as i feel it is an indication of more correct connection

[Dresseur]

Chisamba, here are my thoughts. To some degree, that she is right there for you when you do movements that require more engagement makes me think that when she is stretching, she is loosing engagement. Does she offer a good stretch in shoulder in or in the more engaging movements? I think that they way that you ask for a stretch with your position is good, but I would try to only ask for a little stretch to test before letting her go further down and out. I also would pay attention that she doesn't just flatten and rush by keeping the bow strung, so to speak, and that she keeps the arc out to the the bridle by keeping the hind engaged. I suspect that she may just be levering down and therefore losing balance. But, that's just a guess based on your description of how she feels when she's engaged in more collected movements.

[khall]

Question for chisamba, can you do uberstreiken in the collected work without Kimba rushing?

Rushing to me means she is losing her balance. I would also like dresseur suggested check the stretch within the more difficult work. I would also check to see in the collection she is not too powered up that when she stretches she falls forward. Yes we need engagement for collection but careful with too much forward and having to "catch" it. I go back to what Col "T" head rider of Samuer asked the riders that rode under him, a bit slower in the gait (trot especially) and longer in the rein/neck even giving a big release forward for a stride.

[piedmontfields]

I appreciate these notes, too, as we have been working through these issues over the last year+.

I do think this is a bit of the transition/strength-building process as you figure out what Kimba can truly maintain. It has struck me recently how much stronger Emi is than 6 months ago. As a result, she is much more able to maintain self-carriage, esp in the collected gaits.

To echo other ideas about technique, I did/do find it useful to stretch Emi down in trot (and then in canter) while *sitting*. This helped me use all of my aids to assure that she remains engaged. It was also a good thoroughness test to sit then go to working stretching trot and back up again.

[Sue B]

I agree Piedmont, I too find it easier to stretch the trot sitting. That was part of my point to Chisamba, but I guess she did not wish to have input from lil' ol' me.

Chisamba, so sorry to have responded, will keep my fingers quiet from now on. I responded because it is something I struggle with on Rudy, who is a very upright kind of horse (a clinician once called him an iberian TB, lol), and so I appreciated the question and a chance to think about the mechanics.

I rode both boys again last night. Tio's triumph was trotting thru the cavelletti without a change of tempo or rhythm. I have them double spaced so he tends to prefer bouncing his way thru in the canter, hence my pleasure at him for not changing rhythm. Everything is kinda 2 steps forward, 1 step back at this point, so we are making progress slowly. For my part, I am pleased that I was able to let him "spook n' dive" without grabbing at the reins or taking my legs off, so that silliness extinguished rapidly. Rudy was his usual hard-working self. My ds shot some video for me and I can see that I must spend more time getting him deeper in the beginning but when I compare to last year, he is starting the year with better shoulder swing so not all bad I guess....The canter is weak right now so I spend more time on transitions than actual cantering; should be back online in 30 days or so.

Moutaineer, I am still jingling for Lad and a speedy (and full ) recovery.

[Moutaineer]

Ultrasounds all very clear and clean as a whistle, no issue with the meniscus of any of the ligaments. A little bit of fluid in the joint but nothing of significance, so he's just managed to give it a really good tweaking. He looked a bit better on the lunge today, too.

So he got some HA and cortisone in the joint to calm it all down and is on restricted turnout and rest for the next couple of weeks. Fingers crossed, he should be good to go after that.

You could probably hear the collective sigh of relief from everyone, including the vet, a mile away.

Phew...

[Sue B]

That is GREAT news, Moutaineer.

[Chisamba]

Good to hear Mountaineer.

On other news I think I solved my rushing problem.

[piedmontfields]

Really good news, Mountaineer!

Chisamba, it is not polite to solve your problem and not share your discovery. Please share!

[khall]

Thank goodness Mountaineer!!

I find out how Rip is doing Thurs, hoping all is still clear. A little concerned because he has been snorting some, but not like he was at his worst. I am getting paranoid with any little thing that Rip does, the other horses too!

Lunged my filly and Gaila yesterday and worked Jo off the top of the round pen, letting her see me up above her. She could care less:) Gaila looked fab yesterday on the lunge. She is getting so much better with her carriage in the canter, can't hold it too long but up and so much better in balance. Happy with her so stopped with just the on line work. Biting flies have been bad.

[Srhorselady]

Great news Mountaineer!

[Flight]

Good to hear Mountaineer!

Chisamba, would love to hear how you solved the rushing problem.

[Chisamba]

Really good news, Mountaineer!

Chisamba, it is not polite to solve your problem and not share your discovery. Please share!

Sorry, i was at the barn with no wifi.

I unintentionally allowed her to learn that she can ignore the half halt on a long rein. Ie each rime she rushed i shortened the rein again instead of rebalancing her with the longer connection.

So i did several transitions with the longer rein to remind her that a half halt is a half halt regardless of rein length. Duh me.

[piedmontfields]

So i did several transitions with the longer rein to remind her that a half halt is a half halt regardless of rein length. Duh me.

Helpful update! And smart mare.

[Ponichiwa]

Sorry, i was at the barn with no wifi.

I unintentionally allowed her to learn that she can ignore the half halt on a long rein. Ie each rime she rushed i shortened the rein again instead of rebalancing her with the longer connection.

So i did several transitions with the longer rein to remind her that a half halt is a half halt regardless of rein length. Duh me.

Juuuuust the reminder I needed. Kiwi has similar tendencies with regards to rushing and accepting half-halts regardless of rein (or neck) length. Thanks!

Good news from our side. We successfully executed 2 clean and uneventful changes on the long side without any sprinting/spronging/porpoising/bucking. First step towards tempi changes: check. Next: CONQUER THE WORLD (of 4th level).

[Chisamba]

Sue B. I am sorry if I sounded dismissive. It s not my intention. I simply wished to explain how I asked for the stretch and had not changed it. Next time I need to start with "I appreciate the suggestion But I'm not sure how to apply it because....."

[Chisamba]

Khall, re uberstriechen, better in canter than in trot

[Moutaineer]

I rode a Friesian last night. He's kind of a rehab project/schoolie my trainer has, so she was happy to have me get on him.

I can ride him a couple of times a week until Laddie is better, which is exceedingly generous of her, though in truth he needs the work and some more competent riding than he normally gets as she doesn't find much time to get on him.

Safe, sweet, but OMG, suppleness and bending are not part of his lexicon, so that's my project. He is however, very seat-reactive, (once he realizes that you are actually asking for what you are asking for, not just wiggling around up there like most of his riders!) and he has a lovely uphill canter.

[Sue B]

Chisamba, no sweat, I was probably being too sensitive that day as well.

Moutaineer, so funny about the Frieisan. Hard to bend a "cart horse" isn't it. lol No offense intended to Friesan riders, they really are fun horses to work with. Friend's daughter took her small red Frieisan all the way to PSG, I believe, starting when she was 9 or 10 and the horse was like 5. They are quite the team.

[khall]

Back from the vet with Rip (and Gaila too unfortunately!). The scope was not as good as last month but still way better than Jan one. So vet is supposed to contact company with stem cell treatment to see if we need to do a few days each month of the treatment. I know I cannot afford the full 2 week treatment each month, gulp, that is $1100 for 2 weeks twice daily. Maybe they will give frequent user discount? So a bit bummed about today. Plus Gaila has had just a bit of a runny nose for the last month or so, until last night, went to work her and pouring snot just from left nostril. Possibilities were: bad tooth, sinus issue or guttural pouch infection. Turns out raging sinusitis requiring a hospital stay. She had to have a hole drilled through the skull into her sinus cavity and have it flushed, multiple days. Sigh, I really like my vet but I really would like to not to need him so much. Especially since it is a 2 hour plus trip one way.

Vet definitely wants me to keep working Rip, even maybe bump it up a bit to build his upper respiratory track up. So will need to do some trot set type stuff to help build wind. Nice ride on the guy yesterday, much better than last Sun when we had the 4 wheelers behind our farm running around. He is fine if he can see the equipment (worked him next to the landscapers Tues going with weed eaters and blowers) Took me a bit to get him to calm down and a move to the field farther away from the wheelers.

I have a question hoping for some help with a horse I ride sometimes. She is a boarder horse, youngish and sorta green, big TB/Perch and not the easiest horse to ride. She has much more pushing ability and I am trying to build more carrying ability with quicker WT trans. UP are not too bad, but down, geez she really motors on and kind of forgets you are up there. I am trying to use anticipation by doing W trans same place, but I would really appreciate it more if she would listen to my seat better. Not something I have had to deal with in a long time (funny enough the last horse I did was also a draft X) my horses are so good in their backs and listening to the seat aids. Heck if you quit riding Gaila just stops! Any ideas on getting this mare to not tune us out so much? She has a good mind but boy her quick twitch muscles are just not really there. Her in hand work is better left than right but both are still pretty good from where she started. Does not help her owner is maybe 100 lbs soaking wet! Mare is probably 1300-1400 lbs.

[Chisamba]

I am so sorry about Gaia, i had a horse that had that sinus flushing through the skull and she was such a head shy mess after, for years. I really really hope that the flushing is less painful now and she comes back to you her normal self.

Also sorry to hear about Rip. Stem cell is expensive, we did stem cell to recover a torn tendon and it was 6 K for the whole treatment.

For downward transitions, i get a really good halt on the ground. ( i admit, i use a sound, i do not say whoa but i sort of hiss my breath out, because i use breathing out for a down transition with my seat) once the horse transitions down in hand using the breath out noise, i apply it in saddle, gradually using less and less voice and more and more breath/ seat. not sure if you want to try this, but it has worked well for me for years.

[Josette]

I like to use a sound too. Many years ago, I attended a World Cup Driving Competition at Gladstone. The teams would come galloping out of the woods to approach an obstacle ( 4 in hand) and they had to SLOW down! I heard several drivers use a "Brrrr" sound like you make to describe feeling cold. I started using that sound on my guys and they responded quite well to it. Actually I used it when I did hunter paces and wanted to slow down. Clearly different from a clucking or kiss sound I use for a canter depart - no confusion.

[piedmontfields]

Mountaineer, I am glad you have a horse to ride as Laddie heals.

I have to share what one Friesian owner said to me when we swapped horses: "Wow, your horse is like a cup of espresso and feels like whipped cream in the hand!" To which I replied, "Your horse is like a keg of beer and feel like chilled fudge in the hand!" They are lovely horses, though, and the more sensitive ones truly enjoy lighter, responsive riding and action! I agree that Friesians are very lovely in temperament and enjoy the pampering that the hair requires.

Now I have to look up Anja Beran's action for the stretchy trot/canter (or Chisamba needs to describe it!).

Call me guilty to also using an exhaling sound as a "warning" to a could-be strong half halt.

Khall, I truly hope for all horsey health to simplify and improve for you!

[Chisamba]

I call it Anja Beran's method but I feel it's been around for longer, but if you search her name and stretchy trot it is pictured.

You do not slide the reins through the fingers. You lean forward and extend your hands toward the mouth. Your heels come up a little as you weight your toes. You can stand or sit.

We did not do the release in self carriage in our tests in SA, so coming to the USA I puzzled over how to differentiate between stretchy trot and draped rein maintaining collection.

So my solution was, sit up and maintain collection with posture, lean forward to allow stretch down and round. I had seen it done on YouTube. Then I bought Anja Beran's book and she describes it well, so I gave it her name.

[khall]

Chisamba I hope Gaila does not have any lasting issues after her hospital stay!! I was there for the first treatment and she handled it just fine. The vet Dan left a catheter in place and open to help the sinus drain even when not in treatment. They used torb for pain control and sedation, she was pretty drunk. There was a cyst in the sinus, a gelatinous blob that Dan was hoping would break down with the flushing otherwise he would have to cut a flap and scoop it out. He thinks though it will break down and flush out. Good grief if it is not one thing it is another!

Yeah, stem cell is expensive. I was kind of expecting a back slide, but was hoping for it not. I guess because of the syndrome which is progressive I am just hoping for a miracle at this point and with the last scope looking so good I was hoping I had it. Good news nothing is actively inflamed, this is from the previous issues. Now to get him doing trot sets, canter sets to build his wind up even more. Going to feel like I used to when I evented! Not sure how Rip will feel about it, he is not brave.

Thank you chisamba for reminding me to breath! Such a simple concept and I was just not focusing on it. Funny enough her trans down in hand are good and totally from my body and light. I think what I am dealing with is her owner getting handsy when riding, not applying seat aid first which is how I like to ride. Hand last if at all possible. That is why my horses are so responsive in their backs. (unless there are wheelers running about!) I even use the out breath working a horse on line for down trans and have used it on this mare on line to good results, so yes will remember next time to BREATH! That was actually one of Mark's very important reminders to riders and I am usually good at it, just got caught up I guess riding the big moose of a mare.

We are having lovely weather so hope to get some riding done now other than my vet trip again next Tues. Happy riding all!!

I have to say I am loving these threads, such good positive vibes here.

[StraightForward]

Khall, jingles for your horses! FWIW, my gelding had a big cyst in his sinus that was surgically removed about two years ago. He recovered nicely from the surgery and hasn't had any complications or recurrence. The only evidence is a thin line of white hairs where they went into his sinus cavity.

I had a lesson on Susan's mare this morning. I was a bit concerned that it wouldn't be productive, given that it's only my fourth time back on her after three months, but we both did well, and I got some good homework. I was less successful on the shoulder-in to 1/4 TOH she started me out on, so we went to haunches in on the circle, and then did LY -> SI -> HP from centerline at walk and trot, and finished with a little canter SI. She also gave me some pointers on improving the weighting of my seatbones (thinking more forward/inward with the weighted seatbone). I need to practice applying outside leg without tipping onto my outside seatbone. We were in the smaller indoor, so I was sort of running out of room to do much HP each time, but I'll definitely practice this in the outdoor when things dry out a bit. Looking forward to when she comes back next month and we're both a bit more fit and less rusty.

[Imperini]

I too appreciate the breath out suggestion for downward transitions. I never thought of it but figured I would give it a try because I sometimes forget to breathe at all so if I have to breathe for transitions then I have to remember to breathe and found it either does something good for my body and/or P has previous experience with it because it worked really well for us.

My half halt epiphany seems to have truly been an epiphany and I'm not only riding less handsy, which unfortunately can be/has been a problem for me, but she's going much better. I'm really happy with our bit change as well. I thought she might not like it but she seems quite happy and is even getting a little foamy lipstick which she never did before. She's also been quite attentive to my leg and seat lately and I haven't felt at all like I have an impossibly lazy horse. I still have some moments where she ignores me and I have to get better with my timing on correcting that but I think we're both still improving so overall I'm pretty happy with how things are going at the moment. I'm aiming for a show at the end of April where we'll do training level to dip our toes in.

The exciting work of the day today was successful counter canter both directions. In a lesson recently we accidentally did some changes when working on it (I was informed that even though they were clean I don't get extra marks haha) but then I realized her changes are very non-dramatic and I stopped worrying so much that she was going to change and lo and behold we have a nice counter canter. Woohoo! That was my goal from I think December

[khall]

Have done two days of trot sets with some canter thrown in and I like what it is doing for the big guy. Really feeling his back swing nicely! I have a 5 acre pasture that has roll to it so it is good training to settle going downhill and lengthen on the flat or uphill slopes. Rip can be looky and has been known to act on those looks, so there are times when we are incorporating sitting trot and lateral work as well as throwing in some serpentines on occasion. Some lovely light seat canter too! I am having a blast riding him this way and he seems to be handling it pretty well.

Gaila is now flushing clear so pick her up Tues.

Worked my filly on line the other day and asked for some canter, she was not sure she wanted to! I had to insist a bit, got her "big trot" boy she has a wonderful free shoulder! A couple of bucks but then got some canter too. She is going to have a big rolling canter but has the Lusitano "action" to it so once she gets stronger she will have a lovely uphill canter. Fun to see the beginnings of it all! This filly is by far the nicest horse I have bred, movement and mind wise.

[Kyra's Mom]

I have been able to ride a couple times. The first ride, walk and trot were good but the canter was tense and quick. My back was already stiff (and probably part of the problem with the tension and quickness) but it really wound up my SI joint on the left. It seems to be hell to get old . So, my next ride since the SI was still squawking, I stuck to walk and trot and worked a figure eight with some counter bending. True bend on one circle, then counter bend on the other. Then counter bend on the big circle to a 10m circle in true bend...back to the counter bend on the big circle. That went well and after a couple repetitions of the pattern I would release her from the figure eight and ask for a stretch which was quite nice. A nice firm stretch into the rein without speeding up. Then I ended with picking a line and doing a TOF on one end of the line then a TOH on the other end. She started out sticky so I reinforced my leg with the whip...of course then she started throwing herself around and over shooting the line. Eventually we got it just right .

I was able to watch Straightforward's lesson and man, if I do say so myself, she looked so nice. Active in her gaits, good self carriage and looked a pleasure to ride...I think I would like that horse Oh, she is mine . Not bad for 3 months off and a couple weeks of ground work and riding. I think slogging through the snow from our winter snowmageddon helped her keep some fitness. I also jumped on after Nika's lesson to try her saddle. I am always looking for something that is more comfortable on my butt although, until that spike comes out, nothing will work very well. She has a Black Country Vinici and I really liked it. It has a nice flat spot in the seat that had me squarely on my seat bones and took a bit of pressure off the tailbone. Of course, I have to get the surgery done and make sure I can ride again before I plop down $$$ for a new saddle but definitely one that will go on the list.

I hope everyone's horses are mending. Kyra is getting teeth done and shots on Wednesday so she will have a couple days off then easy work for the rest of the week.

Susan

[Moutaineer]

It's so nice that you and SF can work together on this, Susan!

Khall, that sounds like positive health progress.

Imperini, good stuff. It takes time to put the pieces together.

This Friesian I'm riding is going to make me handsy if I'm not really careful... bend, goshdarnit!

He's sweet, and I'm extremely grateful for the ride, and I know it's very good for me to ride other horses, and I'm not doing a bad job with him, but I want my own horse back.

On which note, I hand-walked Laddie this afternoon and he was tracking up beautifully in his huge walk on both hinds. He had his last bute last night so we shall see if he maintains that until the vet comes out on Tuesday and we can trot him up and see if I can get permission to tack walk him. Which I think is less likely to get me maimed than hand walking him. He is obviously feeling better as he is behaving like a big, fit warmblood again. Doofus.

[Chisamba]

I find your progress inspirational.

Khall, so nice that you are able to work out, we are still struggling to remove the ice off our outdoor arena, and the paddocks are not rideable at the moment. Glad to hear your mare is on the mend, and that you have time to work with your youngster.

Kyras Mom and SF, great to know you can work together!

Mountaineer, it really is useful to ride different horses, even if it can also be frustrating, every horse teaches something and i find that translates well when i get back to my own horse. Glad to hear Laddie is walking well.

Imperini, I love to hear of others epiphanies. Its what makes dressage rewarding, there is always something more to learn!

I tweaked my back, yes, age is darn irritating when it comes to fitness/pain. So i was unable to ride the second half of the week. However i was so happy with Kimbas work, just before i tweaked it, less happy with Acacia. Deneb has been as fresh as can be, I suspect the spring changeable weather has a little to do with it, but also i think i need to work her a bit harder.

Its nearly the end of March, I have to decide upon show entries, and i find my self stressing about it. Maybe i do not have to show, to be happy ? Maybe I am just being chicken shit.

[Sue B]

Ugh, I have to ride in a show or two this year but first I have to sort out why, once again, my membership is not current in USDF even though I renewed last November! Gotta renew USEF too. Oh well, it's only money, right?

So I did get one ride in this weekend. With Rudy, I decided I was asking too much too soon, and so I backed off, choosing to work on "slow" trot without stirrups. Being a TB, Rudy is inclined to rush off and hollow his back some, and so we did the opposite of slow, cadenced trot. On my part, I rode sans stirrups and endeavored to keep my hands quiet and forward, controlling bend and tempo with seat and legs. It was a bit trying, patience wise, to both of us, but in the end I believe we got some quite nice work with good lateral and longitudinal bend. My only concern is that for some reason, my back muscles were sore, not my abdominals. Hmmm, no video so no way to check my position.

Tio worked on the usual baby stuff of round circles, forward off a soft leg, and try to listen to hh. The cool thing is, I can trot him through the cavelletti both directions with really nice stretch and absolutely no change in tempo. Riding down the road or in the hay field is still a work in progress, however, as he still has a tendency to want to bolt away and possibly bronc it up a bit. A younger me would not have minded, the now older me is sticking to walking in hand.

[Gwen]

I was gone again for a week taking my daughter to my parents, so I'm just getting back in - I keep trying to compose responses to people but my memory is atrocious - I'm so glad Laddie's lameness is not more serious, and enjoyed reading all the back in the saddle/epiphany/training progress posts!

Just ran through 2-3 for the first time, on my own. Need to clean up the walk/canter/walk transitions, and get better at convincing Callie that I really just want CC, not a change. But I was pleased that I remembered all of it! It doesn't feel too overwhelming which is nice.

I had a nice reminder of how far the two of us have come, as we went past one of the doors and something hit it (her hoof? It sounded like a rock hit the window, but that seems unlikely?) just as we were passing, it was a big loud boom. She of course got us out of there quick, but circled back immediately when asked, and while she was clearly thinking about it the first few times past it, settled back almost instantly. I was so pleased with her, and with me. That's the kind of thing that would have left us rattled in the past, but as soon as I said "no big deal" and asked her to keep working, she said "ok", loud and clear.

I never thought I would show at all when I started this journey with Callie, and continue to be surprised by how fun I find it. More than the fun though, I think the showing has really helped us build a relationship and to build up trust in each other. For me, there's nothing quite like getting dropped at a show ground and having to rely on each other to navigate through it and keep our heads. It's like an Outward Bound trust building exercise. And I need to be "forced" to take risks like that, I like my comfort zone a lot. It's comfy in there.

[Moutaineer]

Laddie update. About 95% better, walking solidly sound, still a small toe drag on the RH at the trot, so haven't even bothered to look at the canter yet. I think we might get to see the vet tomorrow, but I'm assuming another couple of weeks of leisure for him. There's no rush, I keep telling myself... (We really did want to go to the Idaho Dressage Festival in late May, but I'm not holding my breath. Something always happens to stop me from getting to that show!)

[Dresseur]

I've been a bit MIA on updates. LOTS going on in work and horses. This weekend I'm going to be making my PSG debut and I'm feeling nauseous just thinking about it. The work has been good, not great. The learning curve incredibly steep. I have breakthroughs and then lose them. I can do changes beautifully then I can't do them at all. So - frankly, I'm terrified. I have run through the test successfully, with no major errors, but I just don't trust that I can get myself together for show day since I am an incredibly nervous competitor. I'm trying desperately to change my inner dialogue to tell myself that I'm excited, not scared - so far I'm not fooling myself lol.

For Miro, we keep plugging away. Some of my breakthroughs on Gala have translated and suddenly M is riding like a more mature horse and the quality is increasing. Shoulder in, haunches in and counter canter is very solid, shoulder in to renver is coming - just bobbles a bit, and the baby half-passes feel like they will one day be a highlight. Our undoing will be the walk pirouettes Let's just say that he relishes any opportunity to get tight and short in the back and prong around. Not bucking, not rearing or any naughtiness. It's hard to describe, he'd just rather push himself around with his shoulder and spin, and getting tight allows him to lever off of his shoulders. Mind you, these beginning walk piris are incredibly large. I'm asking for a step or two of haunches in on the circle and even with that, he gets tight, starts pinging and tries to spin it in. At home, we have the problem solved by and large, I can keep him stepping up and under for 3 steps on a 20 meter circle and I can ask him to stretch FDO within the movement. When he is away from home, and a bit tight, as in the recent clinic - it becomes an issue. SO, this is going to take a long, long time to keep him relaxed AND be able to close them up.

And that's where I'm at. I'll report back after the show.

[Gwen]

Good news on Laddie! And good luck dresseur, I'm sure you guys will be fine!

We are so close on the changes... so close. We were going to stop working on them as we gear up for showing 2nd level, but they are SO close we're going to see if we can get them confirmed (with me, I think they're quite confirmed with my trainer). I discovered last lesson that just because Callie thinks they are a big deal doesn't mean I have to and that helped me stay relaxed physically and mentally which really helped. She's still hopping up and down a bit trying to sort out her hind legs in one direction, but no bucking (knock wood) so that's good. LOTS of anticipating, which is less good, but that's always been a thing for her.

This is complicated by the fact that my ability to tell what lead we're on is a bit hit or miss, so that doesn't help!! So frustrating. I know I should be able to feel it or at least see from the shoulders, but I have the weirdest mental block about it.

[khall]

Hoping Laddie continues to heal and now your tush too Mountaineer!

Dresseur, go have fun showing PSG! Interesting on Miro, think he is channeling his inner bull fighting horse? I have never seen a horse have that type of reaction to TOH.

Well Gaila is just fine after her hospital stay, no head shy issues at all. She was a bit concerned because she had stayed by herself in hospital, she is not fond of being alone. So a bit of screaming for her friends, but is settling again in the barn. Worked her a couple of times but have to say she is taking a bit of back seat right now with having to do treatments with Rip.

So Rip gave me a scare last week, working him I could hear his breathing being rough. Really concerned me that his upper airway was closing even more. Thankfully he is on the stem cell therapy again, full 2 weeks and I am seeing positive results again already. Still riding him and asking for trot sets and canter when I can to push his fitness and build his wind. Then yesterday I asked after some long trots and gentle serpentines and lateral work decided to play with a bit of piaffe. He gave me several times true piaffe with elevated poll! I have had trouble when asking for half steps he wants to roll over his shoulders, so I just gently asked with light rein for him to stay up in his poll and activate behind and there the piaffe was!! So excited and yet I am still so worried that with the NCS it is not going to end well. Vet has decided after consulting with Rood and Riddle (vet interned with R and R) airway specialist that we will try injecting stem cells directly into upper airway tissue. We are in uncharted territory. I have had others who are dealing with this syndrome reach out to me about the stem cell nebulizing treatment, saying their vets are not recommending it because it does not work. Ugh I know it made huge changes with Rip, they just did not hold. But he did not slip back to what he was in January.

Still playing with my filly and she is kind of learning canter, she has a big stride and would rather trot big than to canter on. Will have to play with her some more see if we can come to an understanding. Still absolutely am in love with her!! What an incredible mover she is. Has enough WB and TB in there to open that stride up but has the baroque in there to add animation. She is just so smart and willing too. So different from the WBs who really like to test boundaries.

Also had an interesting ride on the TB/Perch X the other day. We are trying to get her to use herself a bit better, activate her hind legs without diving in the front and still listen to the seat. So she took the activating to mean go forward full steam ahead and owner did not quite know what to do. I got on and just did a couple of arets saying no you cannot roll over your shoulders and plow on, carry your big self yet stay active. WOW did she step up to the plate! She is a nice mare, just different than my WBs and not the sharpest tool in the box but very kind. Got some nice sitting in the T-W trans where she carried herself, listened to the seat and stayed light and up. Very happy and owner was also able to do the same which was nice.

I really don't know what kind of goals I am setting other than to get and keep Rip healthy. Keep on with the filly and Gaila as much as I can.

Hope the weather is improving for all, good riding!

[Borrowed Freedom]

Ok so jumping in here. My main goal to take Delilah to a show will probably be move to May just so she can get back into work after being off.

I guess other than that is getting her lighter infront and improving her strike off into the canter on both reins. She's got that typical young horse habit of wanting to throw her weight on the inside shoulder and run into the canter. Currently I'm using a ton of half halts and transitions to get her sitting back more. I've actually got a cool exercise I do with her for lightening up where I ride a loop over x and in the loop we play with the speed of the trot. Initially the exercise was used to get her reacting more to my leg to go forward but I've found it also gets her more in sync with my seat and hanging less in front.

Other than riding I also do a ton of canter trot transitions with her on the lunge.

[Dresseur]

Khall, continued jingles for Rip and your herd. Mountaineer, keep us updated on Laddie's progress as well!

Khall, it's funny with Miro - it's not the actual movement per say... it's the walk I think and what he does with his back. But yes, he is incredibly agile and I think he would be stellar at working equitation - I have it on my list of things to try!! Put it this way. The very few times he spooks, he levades, does a 180 and stops facing the other direction. And it is VERY slow, VERY controlled... not a quick spin.

So, the walk - when I first got him, it was very lateral looking - you could take footage and see that it was in fact, pure, but the look was lateral. This was 2 things - one, he wants to be a bit tight in the back,- he almost gets a spanish walk going on. Then, when he would let go, he would just sag his back down. Two, his walk was HUGE. It easily over tracked by 2 hoof prints when he was younger. So, he needed to grow into his walk.

We left the walk alone, and as he got stronger, it improved and now there is no hint of lateralness. But, when he gets tight, he does the spanish walk thing and then just starts almost triangulating instead of continuing to walk forward. And this is on a loose rein. So, in trot, I can maneuver him very well, he doesn't get tight, he just flows. In the walk, he gets tight and then gets stopped up. IF he were EVER to be naughty, he would chose to go up. So, we are very, very careful to make sure that he flows forward. So, a step or two, and then forward.

But, what we are keeping in mind is this tendency to lever up. This will play a role in the pirouettes, it will play a role in half-steps, and eventually piaffe, and it will play a role in changes. He will not buck, he'll be a leaper. So, relaxation is key - but not so relaxed that he drops the bridge of his back.

[Ponichiwa]

Kiwi isn't a baroque horse, but does have very similar flat-spin tendencies. I've had some spooks and attempts at half steps that looked like the Top Gun scene where Goose dies (spoiler alert). Same as Dresseur, I've had to be pretty careful of not overloading the hind end and asking for too much collection, especially in walk and canter. Generally this means interspersing collected work with very extended work, as Kiwi finds relaxation through movement. I had a trainer call it "auction trot", and it appears to take a lot of tension out of her back and neck that can creep in from bouts of collection.

Which is timely, because that's really what I've been working on lately. Yesterday we schooled half-steps from the trot, exiting into medium or extended trot to keep the power and dissipate tension. In our last challenge thread I'd mentioned that I lost the ability to do really nice relaxed mediums from the collected (or super collected) trot. Well:

THEY'RE BACK.

AND I GOT 4-TEMPIS YESTERDAY. Which, uh, weren't the straightest or prettiest in the world. However, they're there, and they weren't even pronging or spronking or whatever ridiculousness I've had in the past. Victory.

So to reward Kiwi's exceptional efforts yesterday, we went for a nice long walk through the pastures. Crossed some streams, walked up and down some gentle hills, moved some cows out of our way, and got to see my boyfriend lose control of his border collie and their 6 sheep momentarily. So that was fun.

[khall]

Dresseur that is very interesting re the walk, big yet can get tight. I am used to big walks but with the WBs they are not always quick enough behind. One of my focuses on both Rip and Gaila (TB/Perch too) where the baroques tend to be quicker with their hind legs (why they find piaffe easy) and I can see this in my filly. She does not have that big long walk (BTW with the long walk often the horse will hyper flex because it is too long and they drop their sling, had to be careful with Rip in this) but does have an active pure walk that she naturally keeps her hind legs under her leading to easy W-T trans even at her young age. I know with the baroque's especially the full they can be weak in the back/loin area and take time to develop there. Don't think I will have that issue with my filly, she has a strong back/loin and longer hip than many of baroques do. Wonder if that is what is affecting Miro? Weakness there. Asking for compressing the hind leg lead to no I cannot? Very different from my WBs who get sticky or loses the march. Why I am excited to actually get piaffe with Rip!! That will help strengthen those hind legs immeasurably.

I hear you on the going up! I have seen my filly do this in play not so much in work. She tends to do capriole instead! Now Gaila will go up, never under saddle, but her go to when something bothers her or she is high. Can be very spectacular. Rip does the leap up all four legs, high as he can go. Again not under saddle, in fact Jillian asked me that last clinic, she was prepared to be very impressed! I said no I know better to throw a leg over him when he is acting like that!!

It is just so fascinating the different issues the horses will have due to breed or conformation. I am hoping I am up for the challenge with my filly, first baroque experience. So used to WBs after so many years. Though I prefer to ride a light and maneuverable horse which WBs are not always so adept with. My filly's dam was light, enough TB in there to give her that ease and lightness.

[Dresseur]

I'll try to explain his conformation and tendencies, because I agree, it's fascinating to see pre-dispositions in horses and how they manifest. Body wise, he is maybe a touch long behind. He now has a massive in neck on him. This pic is from when he was 3, so very undeveloped yet. I need to get a newer conformation pic of him.

IMG_8432.JPG (88.71 KiB) Viewed 24925 times

His sire looks like this - more short coupled - but Miro has a carbon copy of that neck, especially as he matures:

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miro-festivo.jpg (145.88 KiB) Viewed 24923 times

(FYI, hands were a moment of giving forward and testing - not normal hand position

Movement-wise, Miro is maybe a bit freer in the shoulder, a bit slower behind, not as baroque/round in the joint articulation, but that may come with time, strength and training. But, for a PRE, he has a tremendous capacity for extensions, which his sire seems to also possess.

So, he is decidedly not wanting to be quick behind, however, he comes under very, very easily - which basically predisposes him to triangulation and leveraging up with the shoulders, not the hinds. He IS quick with shuffling his feet to give the illusion of doing something correctly. So, for instance - w/t transitions he likes to do a quick shuffle of hinds and pull himself forward with the shoulders rather than step cleanly into it (not an issue under saddle, more on the longe). The walk, canter, walks - he gets "stuck". So he brings the hinds WAY under and leverages WAY up in front - which looks very impressive, and you would think it's correct if you saw it and didn't have an eye for that sort of thing, but it's actually not correct. Trot/Halts, he comes well under behind - but then does a quick shuffle of the feet to strike a pose rather than just nailing the halt.

The other interesting thing about him is that while he does have a tendency to get tight in the back, he is a gumby horse. Very, very flexible - which translates into not connected. We had to work very carefully, with a lot of tact to slowly connect him over time without making him tense. But he can overbend in a second and disconnect. And, more interesting... he actually has a tendency to get a bit wide in front - so, in the beginnings of lateral work - he did an almost balancé movement as he began the shoulder ins. So, come around the corner, ask for shoulder in, his first move was to throw the outside fore further out and bend his neck. With very careful riding, that is all but gone - but it is something that would have had serious repercussions later had it become habit.

So, like with any horse, he is full of contradictions. He is bred from PRE military lines - the stallions Vinatero III (one of the best bullfighting stallions in Spain), Lebrijano and well as Academio VII all make appearances close up in his pedigree, so quick and agile are his middle name

[khall]

Interesting dresseur!! Especially that Miro is not quick behind. So sounds like he wants to get over his shoulders similar to what Rip does when you say triangulation? I know with the baroque's it can be hard to keep them up and open, they find it easy to "pose" look like they are "on the bit". Rip wants to roll up (I feel like it is almost collapsing from the contact) and bury onto his shoulders. I have had to really work at keeping him OUT to the bit. I can even chase him a bit early on, not so much needed now, to encourage the activity to surge to the bit. I think the work of activating the hind legs now and riding with light contact (even going back to neck rope for help) has stabilized Rip in the front much better.

Yes it is my understanding that the baroques are excellent at being gumby horses, very flexible in their joints and bodies more so than the WBs. I see that already the little bit I have done with my filly, stepping under and being active I do not think will be an issue with her. Do you think Miro gets tight in the back when asked for forward or is it just in response to mental state? I did have to remind my filly going right to keep her energy up, took all of 2 lunge sessions and now she is great, that straightened her up and allowed for her to be in better balance. She gets tight from mental state on occasion but is short lived, too much work for her!

I have seen some baroques ridden similarly to WBs where they are ridden in too fast a tempo and get quick. Fine line I believe in energy without pushing them out of balance. My WBs on the other hand I almost have to ride up one notch their typical tempo to keep their hind legs active. Rip finally now has enough strength and understanding that I don't have to go there, Gaila is still in that spot though. TB/Perch that just pushes her onto her front end and she plows happily letting you carry her around if you will! So active hind leg without rushing forward is her answer. I bet it can be tricky with Miro to activate him behind without him rolling up and falling on his front end. I know you had said you were trying hard to keep him more up and open in earlier threads. Can he sustain a long neck with activity yet? The Samuer Col had the riders ride in a slower tempo but longer neck so the horse could balance without compression. Fun to explore what works for the different horses!

[Dresseur]

Yes. It's basically the goat on a mountaintop pose - very over the shoulders when he tightens up. And I would say that my criticism of the work with Miro is that he wants to be a bit short in the neck, but whenever I tried to ride the neck out, I would lose his back, and he would get a bit high and tight or just pose. So, I let him be a bit short and worked on the feel in his back. (I never pulled him in or rode with a rigid hand - that's just how he went). Now, I can ride the neck out - there is no posing and the feel is wonderful. Initially, we pushed him out into a bigger trot. Now as he gains strength, the tempo is slower, but the hind is driving up and that stabilizes the front and allows me to ride it out. So now, yes, he is able to sustain the activity and keep the neck long - but if I had tried to keep him slow in an effort to keep long neck above all else, I would have created an issue with the hind. And, if I would have rushed him off his feet, he would have really curled. I know that there are some schools of thought that are very rigid in making the neck long above all else, but IMO, on him, it would have been at the expense of the connection, and without a connection, I wouldn't have been able to work on the bridge of his back.

With Miro, it's definitely not in response to going forward. Forward ALWAYS fixes it. So, if he gets tight, I keep him moving... so, walk trots instead of trot/halts, trot/canters instead of walk/canters. And, I don't think it's all to do with the mental state. If he is worried, all of the work is a bit tight and then I have to keep transitions flowing, and I can't skip gaits. But, I can have a lovely ride, go to a few steps of walk/piri's (or early on, the walk/canters) and he would just tighten up. Again, I don't feel any naughtiness - it just feels as though he just closes up the base too much.

[Chisamba]

My mares are Lipizzaner x with Standardbreds, sadly that means they have the baroque front end, but the standie long back and low withers. it is really difficult for them to load the hind end in a balanced way with an engaged back. As a person who rode arabians or arabian x most of my life, working with the longer back is a challenge I did not have to work with in my other upper level horses.

It is very interesting the different challenges the different breed/ temperament/ conformations bring.

[Ryeissa]

Forward doesn't fix- I have to slow the rushing, then add forward/power. CREEP WALK. Otherwise he was just falling onto his shoulder/forehand and not connected.

[Moutaineer]

Bad news on Laddie, quite lame at his recheck this morning. I am out of town and didn't see it, but have set up an appointment for a complete work up next week when I get back.

[khall]

I am so sorry Moutaineer. I'll keep jingling for Laddie!

I understand where you are coming from Chisamba. All of my horses are quite short in the back with strong hip/loin connection and a good hind leg. That is the conformation I lean towards.

This is Rip as a 2 yr old, big solid guy even here. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater

My filly's dam Anna who I lost last Oct https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
Again big long hip (she was 1/2 TB) and strong loin.

My filly's sire Saphiro https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
I really liked his conformation for a baroque (like Miro's sire's as well, strong top line) he has a good loin and a pretty good hip for a baroque horse.