Getting left behind at the medium trot

[lorilu]

Hi everyone! So today I finally diagnosed what is happening with my sitting trot - I am getting left behind!! THis was not an issue with former horse - but today, one handed reins and one hand on the pommel, I figured out why I have such a hard time sitting Bravo's bigger trots. I wind up behind the motion and at the back of the saddle.
SO I am looking for solutions.
Is it saddle? I know saddles work for some horses but not others..... Is it stirrup bar position ( Bravo is a round Lusitano; he is widest right where my leg should lay, and so my leg slips forward into the "groove" behind his elbow. I struggle to keep legs under me and in the middle of the saddle...)
ANy suggestions??

TIA!!

[Dresseur]

Lorilu, it's hard to tell without seeing a video or at least pics to see how you are sitting in the saddle. But, I hear you on the struggles of riding a wide horse.

However, in terms of the sitting trot and in the lengthened trot - you want to feel as though your pelvis is crowding the pommel. So, if you stand in front of a sliding stall or barn door. Crotch to sternum pressed against the door - you should be able to push that door in front of you without disconnecting any of those body parts - so, crotch to sternum presses forward together. That is the feeling that you want in the saddle - so you don't lead with your hips, and you don't lead with your shoulders.

To keep leg under you - simple exercise that I'm sure that you've done before... sit a few strides, stand straight up a few strides, rinse, repeat. That will be a self check for your leg. If your leg is not under you, you will fall forward or back.

So, for the extension (or lengthening or whatever level you are doing) - make sure that it presses smoothly out - I stiffen a bit and press forward (crowding the pommel a bit) and that is my cue to lengthen - then leg if the horse does not respond. If the horse jumps into it, you have a greater chance of being left behind. Then, the secret, ESPECIALLY if your horse is bouncing you around, I sit a tiny bit more on my thigh, so that you could slip a sheet of paper between my saddle and my bum. And I really, really engage my core and shoulders (lats) and hold my hips to the front of the saddle. That core strength and slightly more engaged thigh will keep you up in the saddle rather than falling back.

[Dresseur]

I also just read your post on CoTh about the mechanics of the sitting trot. (Rainy day and boredom at work lol!)
So, for the sitting trot, my description of crowding the pommel and pushing forward crotch to sternum is what I do in the regular sitting trot. When you add impulsion, you have to "hold" your core more - and you have to knit your shoulders (lats) together so that create very solid seat. (thigh to ribs). How much thigh you use is dependent on the horse and rider team. Some that are trying to pull or are a bit more jarring, I hold more. If the back is weaker, but they are ready to begin sitting trot, I sit more on my thigh so that I take the weight off of the horse's back. On a fully trained, very strong horse I sit more - but then my shoulders are even more engaged so that I can take the rein into my back - which leaves a wonderfully soft connection. So, it's said that you should always have either a passage or extension in the trot. For an extension, I just soften my shoulders a bit to allow the horse to go forward, for passage, I stiffen more (strong core, strong shoulders) and make sure the hinds are driving up. So, a big part of it is not JUST the core, it's how the shoulders knit everything together.

[Rosie B]

Thanks Dresseur! Great explanation.

[HafDressage]

Lorilu - You are sort of my twinsie right now. So now I am finally getting mediums on my haflinger, BUT they are SUPER hard to sit. While his trot is normally decent/nice to sit and I feel balanced (he's wide, but doesn't push my leg forward like the fresians and Andie's often do), the medium is a different story. In the mediums he increases power and knee activity (has lots of knee action naturally bc cart pony) and it's really jarring.

I will say that sitting up and coming forward in the saddle a bit as Dressur recommends seems to be the best for us and leaning back and letting my legs get in front of me (which seems nearly impossible to stop) is an absolute bounce recipe. I'm still experimenting, but so far the most successful thing is that I think about a gentle consistent squeezing the toothpaste tube with my leg and sitting up and nearly standing in my stirrups (not truly, but thinking that) to allow him to move without me bouncing on his back. I've tried about 100 other ways and so far I'm thinking this is really the only way to stay with the motion and keep my leg under me.

Also, I would say that checking your saddle fit is worthwhile. I used to ride in a nice Hennig and thought the big knee rolls really helped. I switched to a Lauriche that has smaller knee rolls, but is more balanced, and I have a much easier time staying at the vertical with my upper body (which is a challenge for me bc I'm a natural lean backer). So, finding a good saddle fitter that really gets you balanced over the back and not just locks you into your saddle with giant knee rolls will make a massive difference.

In terms of sitting trot mechanics. I recently had an instructor recommend allowing each seat bone to sort of make a circular downward scooping motion as each respective hind leg comes forward - to encourage the hind leg to come further under. This was new to me and while I typically just think sit centered, when I find myself feeling "on top of the horse" instead of with the horse, I now think about allowing each seat bone to do this and it sort of sinks me back into the motion.

Anyway- I hope something in that ramble helps. Good luck and let us know what works for you.

[lorilu]

Dresseur, wonderful and helpful posts. thanks.

[lorilu]

and Hafdressage too!! thanks!!

[Chisamba]

it reminds me of a funny story. I was training a horse for a client and she would get quick but not strong mediums on her mare. So eventually I put her on my horse to do a medium, and behold, she got quick but not bigger. So after a couple of attempts, as she hit the diagonal my horse went, oh wait, i know what we are doing, and did an extended trot across the diagonal.

Her rider slipped right off the saddle and ended up on her back behind the seat. literally slid right off the saddle. i gave her a "bucking strap" and had her hold on, while she accustomed herself to the amount of core riding it took to go with the medium.

[lorilu]

Chisamba that's funny.... my core is strong. Just don't know what to do with it! Is it little crunches below the waist?

[DJR]

I'm so glad to have read this thread. Methinks that I have been riding mediums incorrectly for far too long. I love the description of "crowding the pommel". When I've ridden in clinics with Jacquie Brooks, she talks about that but in a different way. The phrase "crowding the pommel" crystallized it for the first time for me. I can't wait to try that imagery when I ride next!

I big Friesian/Percheron finds all medium gaits hard as he tends to quicken and flick (carriage horse) his front feet instead of lift through the withers and lengthen. I'm pretty sure that my seat has inadvertently contributed to this. Thanks to this thread, I intend to try sitting in the saddle differently now for my mediums!

Chisamba, that story about ending up behind the saddle is hilarious! Too bad you didn't get it on video!!

[Chisamba]

People do different things to sit big trots. Some close the thighs and lighten the seat making "a bubble" to sit on above the saddle.

Many sit slightly behind the vertical.

It often depends on the horse. Some horses have very easy mediums to sit, and some have a lot more bounce. As the horse is learning it may have moments of being on the forehand, which feels one way, and then come uphill, which rides different. It is my opinion that there is no magic formula to sitting well at the various phases of trot.

All I know is if you sit more, and often enough it eventually becomes easier than posting because of freeing the timing of the aids.

Do 2 or 3 strides of medium regularly, the transitions develop the gait anyway. If your shoulder in starts to slow, three strides of medium toward the centerline, resume shoulder in on centerline. Your ten M circle needs oomph, spiral out, do medium, half pass in to an improved 10 m circle. Sandwich your medium between two lateral exercises. The correct application of leg and seat aids before and after short medium trot will help you teach yourself to be with the horse.

Then take it longer.

Most of the time when people tell you how to do something, only when you actually get it right do you understand what they meant anyway.

Riding, you learn by doing. As much as possible as often as possible a bit at a time.

[calvin]

This is a really great thread. Thank you all for your input - I find this timely, and extremely practical and helpful.

[chantal]

My instuctor has me point my belly button at the ear of the front that is forward at the time which leaves space under your seatbone for the diagonal hind to come forward. It's kind of a dancing movement, back and forth, to accommodate the movement. And yes, the core is strong. I could only start truly sitting the trot when I learned to pull my abdomen back, not lean back with my shoulders or fall behind the vertical. Literally my midsection back just a bit to absorb the movement. And to encourage bigger movement, I then think about that specific seatbone "going forward" (which it's not) to meet the hind leg that is moving forward. All of this while maintaining a strong frontline (your own) to support the movement.

However, your position won't be stable if you cannot keep you lower leg back. Think about pushing your knees down and letting your lower leg relax back. I used to fight the sitting trot every moment with everything, including my leg. The more supple and relaxed my leg is, the better my results. But that means keeping your knee where it needs to be. ( I would describe my thigh as supporting and supple, not tightening.)

This is what works for me. I couldn't even truly sit the trot until I figured this out a couple of years ago.

[lorilu]

Thanks, Chantal. SOmething seems to be clicking recently, maybe reading all the suggestions is having an effect....... I am going to try the pointing belly button idea.

[lorilu]

Thanks, Chantal. SOmething seems to be clicking recently, maybe reading all the suggestions is having an effect....... I am going to try the pointing belly button idea.