Goals and Progress May/June 2017

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby piedmontfields » Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:52 am

Rosie B wrote: Last night, every time I tried to sit and hold with my lower legs, Bliss would jam up even more. I realized that I was trying to hold everything too tightly and that made my seat bones positively grind into his back. When I released the holding in my lower legs to just a "breathing contact" and allowed myself to feel softer in the hips, my back could stay straight, my chest opened, my seat started feeling like it was floating up over his back and the up and down movement in his back was really exaggerated.
It also makes me wonder if I've been squashing/grinding his back in walk and canter as well. So I plan to play with it and see what happens.
Hope this is helpful.


This is helpful!! I have been realizing that my sitting trot is getting more correct as Emi's trot improves (or is it vice versa). I may have been less of a wiggler in the past, but I think I was a "squasher." I'm having trouble explaining it, too, but it's like some parts of me are more still while other parts are more fluid in movement. I also get the feeling more often of being "sucked into" the seat during trot. When I have this feeling, it is very easy to be fully upright with shoulders down the back.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby demi » Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:23 pm

This is such a good thread. Thanks everyone for contributing. It is definitely hard to describe what we are feeling sometimes. For me, just making an attempt to try, helps me sort it out in my own mind. Also, trying to understand what others are describing helps me sort things out. Some of this stuff would be easier to see on video, but that, of course, is not often possible. I still wait for the soloshot but I find it tedious just posting pictures, so trying to post video might blow a fuse in my brain...

For all the horse and riders doing well, cheers! and for the ones that are having health issues, hang in there! I was glad to read that Callie is feeling better. I hope Miro's problem is minor.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Chisamba » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:35 pm

Hello all, my update from the show is that is not as a bad as it seems once you are on the horse and in the ring. It was very warm, 96 F or 35.5 C . I did have a couple of bobbles, In two of the three classes we did not have smooth canter transitions. In the third class she her not smooth transition consisted of a huge buck which the judge really did not like. First level test 3 has quite a lot in in, 10 m circles in trot, halts, canter serpentine, and leg yield. I really tried to go for more, in the trot lengthening and on the second one had a couple of uneven steps ( oh the pacer in her coming out) However i was quite pleased with both of us. I think we will progress with more focus on what is needed. The judge comments were very useful, so i was happy with that too. Oh, scores were 66.1 , 65 and 62.5 ( the buck class). We did ribbon in all three classes.

Image

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Josette » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:44 pm

Congratulations on your rides and surviving this wicked heat wave! Lovely pic too!

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby musical comedy » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:55 pm

Congratulations! Couldn't you have picked a better photo. :twisted:

I saw the Class List. You had some very tough competition in that First 3 class. You should be very proud.

Chisamba, how long does it take you to get to the Sussex show grounds? That is a horrible drive for me. I went there once 30 years ago to a hunter show.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Chisamba » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:19 pm

musical comedy wrote:Congratulations! Couldn't you have picked a better photo. :twisted:

I saw the Class List. You had some very tough competition in that First 3 class. You should be very proud.

Chisamba, how long does it take you to get to the Sussex show grounds? That is a horrible drive for me. I went there once 30 years ago to a hunter show.


here is another bad one, lmao. Extended canter. My friend who was grooming for me got three or four far away pictures so i do not have a lot to choose from. Image

The video from my phone is even further away.

MC it takes me fifteen minutes, my barn is in Lafayette, which is right next door to Augusta. Its very convenient.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby musical comedy » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:59 pm

That's a good jumping canter. You've got that arm straight line issue that you worried about fixed too.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Flight » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:31 am

Congrats Chisamba!!!

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby demi » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:41 am

Fabulous Chisamba! and Good girl Kimba!!(except for the buck!!!) That's a real success story. Your smile says it all!

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby mari » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:58 am

Lovely photo Chisamba!
The aim of argument or of discussion should not be victory, but progress. ~ Joseph Joubert

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Rosie B » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:04 pm

What great pics Chisamba! And congratulations! Did it feel good to get back in the show ring? :)

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Dresseur » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:26 pm

Ok, I'm finally back in front of a computer lol! Chisamba, I love the pics and glad that you both did well!

So, regarding your question with Charm
Dresseur, i am interested in your approach with charm, as I am always trying to produce safer riding horses for my clients. However i am not sure what you meant by "chatter" and bumping the horse up in side reins.


My longing surcingle has several attachment points. See this old pic of M...
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Most horses are at the triple (the ring one up from the one behind the stirrup), it puts the mouth about level with the point of the hip - this is where I had Charm. The one at the stirrup bar is low, this is typically used for horses that want to invert, the one above the triple is usually for horses that want to duck or carry themselves low, or have a very steep neck angle. The lowest ring is for long lining or double longing, the highest rings, above the wither at the top of the saddle is for ground driving.

When I am using the word chatter (my word for it, probably not the best word, I'll have to have a think on if there is a better way to describe it) is a very quick head flipping or ducking as a result of locking up the back and sucking back. That is the most visible symptom. In Charm's case, he was not flipping his head at all, but, he was locking up his back up, which to me creates a distinctive short circuit - like static in the line, which is why I call it chatter... like radio chatter or static. I couldn't figure out why he was doing it though. The shape on the line was good, everything seemed to be smooth. But, what I found was that in the riding, I was riding him a bit more "up" in the neck than in the longing. So, he stopped moving though his back, which would cause a short circuit, which would make him stop up and get really behind me.

So, I put the side reins up one turret (the same placement as in the pic of Miro above). Very quickly, we saw that rather than move smoothly out and back within the gaits, (like an accordion for lack of a better term), he tried to duck. So, I put the longe line under his chin to remind him to stay in an uphill shape - and then I could really see the short circuit. He couldn't move into a slightly bigger trot, he would jam the back and pop into canter. I also did in hand work with him. First trot/walk, then trot/halt, then one step of rein back so make sure that he wasn't locking up in the back. When all this became smooth, that's when I opted to try riding him again. The feel was 100% different - super safe, nice and swinging. The ONLY time I felt the old issue crop up was when he tried to duck down and I was asking him to come back up in the bridle - but, with the work on "forward is the only option", he moved smoothly out of the resistance.

I will note, this horse had a full vet work up, is 100% sound... but was trained in draw reins and very long and low, so his back imo was "frozen" in that position. Also note, this has been about 6 months of work... not a quick "slap him in side reins and put him in an uphill shape" process.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Chisamba » Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:32 am

As humans we can easily overdo things. IE too much long and low, or too much up and out.

I do like longing without and side reins sometimes, to see where the horse naturally puts himself when I like the action of the back most.

It is often confirmation related. Horses built with very laid back shoulders and uphill often do well a bit lower in head and neck to gain the back. Horses built downhill or level, or built to gallop, often have to learn to come up and over to free up their back.

However it is my opinion that the back works best as a suspension bridge, ie neither concave nor convex, but able to elasticize between the two which seems to go against prevailing opinion.

Often where I ask a rider to place the head has less to do with dressage, and more to do with balance, safety, and rider and horse well being.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Ryeissa » Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:51 pm

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Moutaineer » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:06 pm

Laddie update...

Rechecked today, prior to his second stem cell shot, 3 months from injury. Sound and symmetrical at the trot on the lunge both ways. He was pretty stiff all over, but as he's been on 15 minutes gentle handwalking and tiny paddock turnout for the last 3 months, that's kind of what we expected.

So I get to up the ante with the handwalking, add some trotting, a bit of jogging on the lunge as long as he behaves himself, and start to get him moving his body more.

Vet wants to see what the canter looks like in 3 weeks when we do the next round of stem cell.

Progress!!!

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Chisamba » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:25 pm

Great update to hear, Mountaineer. Rye, for several hours preceeding the show I really baulked emotionally...
But it did focus my attention on certain aspects of training in a positive manner

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby amygdala » Tue Jun 13, 2017 11:15 pm

chisamba quote

However it is my opinion that the back works best as a suspension bridge, ie neither concave nor convex, but able to elasticize between the two which seems to go against prevailing opinion.

Often where I ask a rider to place the head has less to do with dressage, and more to do with balance, safety, and rider and horse well being.[/quote]

THANK YOU for saying this, chisamba! i think these 2 statements are worth repeating!

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Rosie B » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:51 am

That's great news Mountaineer!!

peidmont wrote :
I also get the feeling more often of being "sucked into" the seat during trot. When I have this feeling, it is very easy to be fully upright with shoulders down the back.


I know this feeling because I used to feel that way with Prussia. I think part of the problem with Bliss is that I was trying to force this feeling by squashing myself down into his back. That sounds awful to write it out but that's what I was doing.

I've had a week now to experiment with the new lighter sitting trot and it's going super well. It takes a huge pile of core strength so when my core is tired from Pilates I can't sit as well. And I can't sit for long periods yet, but I can sit for a little bit longer each ride so that's great.

Bliss is loving it as well. He feels so soft and light and connected. I need to get some new video!!

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Imperini » Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:00 pm

I ended up catching a terrible cold just shortly around my last post, still dealing with remnants of it. Blah. So with that I kind of messed up my exercise on non-riding days but still managed to ride fairly regularly.

I must thank you Dresseur for the thought/idea of thinking about sitting to the front of my saddle at the canter because I think it's helped quite a lot. Sometimes it's just matter of getting the right visualization going. Of course I am still frustrated with my body because I can't make it do what I want all the time but I have to remember that it takes time and while my physical limitations might prevent perfection improvement is still improvement. I haven't had any pictures or video recently so I guess that will be the big tell but P feels quite nice at the canter so I think that's a good sign. I've always preferred trotting to cantering but lately I find myself wanting to canter more and have to make sure I don't over do it. She does have a lovely canter to ride anyway, it's one of the things I loved about her when I first tried her.

Things in general have been going pretty well though I feel like she has some tenseness through her body that makes her resistant and rigid and I'm not handling it quite right. Sometimes we really get going forward, swinging and soft and then everything feels great, I can easily sit the trot, lateral work is nice, etc, but we spend the majority of the ride getting there so only get maybe 5-10 minutes of that. With show season in full swing and my rides limited to fairly late night and weekends I've not been getting lessons as often as I'd like and I feel like I need more concrete goals at this point as well. I sometimes wish I had the time and money to be in a regular program and I go back and forth with how much do I want from this and how bad do I want it to just being happy to be able to ride.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Kyra's Mom » Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:35 am

Chisamba...Love that smile. Congrats on the good showing.

Yeah Mountaineer. Still jingling that the progress continues.

The butt (mine) is feeling better all the time and I am dying to get back in the saddle but really do know better. If the improvement continues, I may try it in about a month and at least to do some walk work and get her over on the track and get some miles.

In the meantime, I am trying to keep her from getting bored to death and not torque her legs off with endless lunging. I have done some cavaletti, some long reining and a lot of days, I just take her for a walk. I haven't ever gotten her out of the arena a lot due to my circumstances and she isn't the most comfortable in the big outdoors so we have been walking down the road or on the canal bank. Yesterday, we went down the road and met two Jersey steers and a bunch of goats. There was snorting and bugging eyes but she stuck with me and didn't come unglued. Probably the most agitated she got was walking back when she spied the cute little palomino paint from across the road that had a really big fly mask on.

So again no real concrete goals other than getting her some kind of exercise. We had a little hiccup the last two weeks because the trimmer got her just a bit (or a lot?) short. Luckily I have boots for her and she was pretty comfortable in those. I will have to have a discussion with her. She is a great trimmer (really) she just has a drive for perfection and this time of year, here, you might have to have a bit of funkiness showing for the sake of soundness on our hard ground.

Happy riding all.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Flight » Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:15 am

Mountaineer, good news on Laddie. Hoping that it continues!

I had a competition on the weekend, very interesting because I scored a 71% and 73% (Australian medium level) for my tests and only a couple of weeks ago I scored in the low 60s for the same tests. So, all different judges but dramatic change!
I was talking about making more of a plan for my training a little while ago? Well I decided to work on shoulder in and medium trot, and definitely increased the scores on these. Still struggling a bit with half pass to get the bend and not have him bobble when I ask too much. Our flying changes are becoming so much easier now and straighter which feels very cool! In all the FC, only stuffed up one when he started to anticipate and I went "oh ok just do it", and then he was late behind but I clearly felt it and made sure we were together for the next one.

The biggest thing that made the difference was my instructor hopped on the day before and I got to watch and then feel my horse afterwards. He speaks of being electric to the horse when they get behind your aids, then getting a release to the aids. It's hard to explain, but when I got back on, my horse felt way more up in the wither and the base of his neck was fatter and I barely had to do anything! He was so 'there'. Was amazing! I tried to video the piaffe he was doing but my stupid phone only recorded white. When I try and piaffe I get this little dribble, but I was like "is that really my horse?!".
Anyway, I tried to get that feeling in the warmup, I can get the go but not the same amount of release after, so I think my timing and feel is still poor. But I feel it's a big game changer to how I've been riding and the feel that I've had with my horse until now.

No more comps for me for a while now and next month I'm getting my knee fixed which will mean 8 to 12 weeks NO RIDING!! ARghhhhhh.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Moutaineer » Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:11 am

Flight, good luck with the knee. Painful having to take that amount of time off, but if it all goes according to plan it should be worth it.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Rosie B » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:52 pm

Flight that is fantastic! You must be so pleased. It's a pity you need to lose so much time to your recovery. Will someone be able to ride Norsey and Ding for you while you recover?

I got some new video last night. I think it shows some progress - better connection, better bend. The sitting trot doesn't look as good as I was hoping but he was a smidge behind the leg at times yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnHryuq ... e=youtu.be

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Gwen » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:56 pm

That's a wonderful report Chisamba, congratulations! I'm sorry I couldn't be there! Mountaineer that's a super update on Laddie! And Flight good luck with your knee!

Don't remember who said it but the sucking into the back feeling on medium trot I LOVE but can't always get, I feel like I only get it when I remember not to let go too much in front, give a few quick upward half halts, and insist on GO. But especially in a show I get worried about breaking into canter so I don't push the trot enough, and I worry about not getting the forward so I release too much and lose all the energy and get "not enough uphill balance" because I've dumped her on the forehand. But the first time I felt the sucking in feeling I laughed out loud, it was amazing - it almost feels like a different gait!

Rosie that is a LOT of trot to sit! Goodness, I'm impressed! He's up in the air for at least an hour before he comes back down! I wouldn't even know where to start on that.

We had our first show this past weekend, the ulcerguard is making a HUGE difference for Callie, she's cribbing almost not at all, and is more relaxed in the outdoor ring than she's EVER been. We've always noticed that she's a lot better at away shows than at home, and now I'm wondering if it's because we always do a preventative ulcerguard dose before we go away! We'll go back to rescope in a month to see how the ulcers are healing, but it's really exciting to feel like we know what her specific symptoms are so we'll know when a flareup is happening. Although I may never take her off it again, certainly going down to a maintenance dose but she's so much happier on it I don't know why I'd risk her being in pain again. Other than all the $$$$ of course!

I'm pretty happy with our first 2-3 attempts, Saturday it poured rain all morning so while we didn't have to ride in the rain, we did have to ride in the mud which Callie wasn't thrilled with. So our first trot medium was... let's say conservative, and the second one I was so determined to get more but she broke into canter as a result. Sigh. Also I was pretty intimidated by riding at second level, so I was frozen and just trying to get to the next movement instead of thinking and riding, and made a number of mistakes and was generally disappointed in myself. But we ended up in first place with a 62% (it was a very small class, one rider excused himself so I think there were four of us?) so I guess we didn't do too badly.

I went into 1-3 with MUCH more confidence, I KNOW that test and I rode it the way I SHOULD have ridden 2-3, with much more uphill balance and confidence, and ended up with a 68% which is I think the best we've ever done at that level? 3rd behind two pros (including my trainer!), so I'm super happy about that.

The next day I went into the 2-3 with more confidence and was determined not to freeze and to sit up and ride the WHOLE test no matter what, and I think we had a better test with fewer errors, still ended up with a 62% (2nd place), with improved scores and comments (different judge) in the lateral work, but got hit hard on the canter/walk - as expected! - and lengthens, also as expected. But I felt MUCH more positively about it all, and like I'm starting to get a hang of the test and more particularly the kind of warmup we both need.

So we've qualified for regionals at 1-3 and 2-3, next show we're going to attempt a freestyle for the first time!! Not sure if we're doing 1st or 2nd, trainer thinks maybe 2nd because she's small and agile so we can do some fun choreography.

I think if we focus the next month primarily on adjustability, particularly within the gaits, particularly in canter I think we can improve by a lot. I think it's our biggest hole right now - I use too much hand to bring her back, because I'm not making a point of getting her to focus on my seat, so I lose the forward and the jump and close her up too much in front so she can't come under, and then we collapse into our halts and walk transitions and she gets bracey and tight.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Gwen » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:12 pm

A few (carefully curated :lol:) photos:

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I want to put focus in my workouts on correcting my (probably smartphone induced) shoulder rounding, as Dresseur suggested in a couple of places, I think learning to really pull my shoulder blades back and down will help firm things up and make it easier to influence her via my seat. Also have to figure out how to correct the left side collapse and weighting the right seatbone way more than the left.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Gwen » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:17 pm

In other news apparently someone in the warmup asked my trainer if Callie was for sale! My barn manager jumped in and was like NO. NO SHE IS NOT. The poor woman said "well what if I ask her directly" and BM said "knock yourself out but it's not going to change the answer." :lol: :lol:

She's right, love my pony too much to even think about it but it's a good feeling to know other people think she's as great as I do.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby mari » Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:46 am

Rosie - I agree with Gwen, that is a lot of trot to sit! Lovely video.

Gwen - Well done! She is very very pretty! If I'm ever in a position to get a 2nd horse, I definitely want a dressage pony!

Odin was off with a cough and a snotty nose for 2 weeks. He was in light (walk) work last week. I attempted a dressage school yesterday. He was SO strong, and SO full of himself, so clearly he's feeling better. Did not do my neck any favours, so it was a short and quite frustrating session.

He was heavy in my hand, and unfocused, and also very onward bound, which is my least favourite combination. I did loads of transitions to get him listening and lighter in front. It worked to a degree, especially the exercise where you trot to the corner, halt just before, and then trot off nice and actively through the corner. I threw in some rein-backs as well, and they were lovely and straight, instead of 3-legged drunk, so that was good.

Canter was disastrous. I was not really comfortable enough to sit on his back, so it was more of an 5 minute wrestling match, undoing all of the ground I had won with the transition work before. So I collapsed in a frustrated heap, grumbled a bit, then picked up the reins and ended with some unexpectedly obedient walk lateral work - leg yield, a bit of baby half-pass, and my favourite combo of travers, SI, renvers down the long side.
The aim of argument or of discussion should not be victory, but progress. ~ Joseph Joubert

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Dresseur » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:09 pm

So, I'm not sure where this goes, but since it's progress - I'll put it here. The last few weeks I have been helping my coach, Andrea Velas, move into her own facilities. It's bitter sweet for me, since I loved the Pennsylvania Riding Academy from the moment that I took my first lesson there over 10 years ago. It was a turning point in my own riding and I will always feel nostalgia towards that farm. But, unfortunately, the situation became untenable for her and I and others couldn't support the personal and training decisions that were being made, so I whole-heartedly threw in my cap with her. I've always felt that she was content to let Paul have the spotlight, even though she ran the show behind the scenes, so I'm happy to see her own growth and evolution.

In total, we moved 16 horses (3 schoolmasters, 9 horses in training, 2 personal horses (Gala and Audaz -who belongs to her amazing barn manager who followed her from Lost Hollow), and 2 sales horses), and 3 dogs plus an insane amount of gear into a gorgeous old bank barn near Spring Grove, Pennsylvania. The barn has an indoor, so in total, she lost 2 days to the move and then was back up and running - or should I say riding :lol: :lol: . There is still construction going on - a new tack room, round pen, modifications to the pastures, the addition of 6 stalls and 2 grooming bays (thankfully that was done by the time the horses arrived 8-) ) All in all, it was a huge undertaking, but I'm incredibly happy for her. The atmosphere is quiet and all the horses have settled remarkably well and lessons have already resumed. She'll need to add the farm to her website once she has the tackroom completed, but I'm so excited for this next chapter.
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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby musical comedy » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:33 pm

How beautiful Dresseur! Will Andra live in that lovely stone home? Are you moving your boy there (I hope so)?

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Dresseur » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:38 pm

MC, yes, she bought the whole property, so that's her new home! The barn is relatively well organized, but her "house stuff" hasn't even begun to get unpacked. Nikki (the barn manager) is in the same boat. Horses first, organizing houses 2nd lol! And, as far as moving Miro, it's a bit far for me, but I'm hoping that I can move closer due to a job change on my husband's part, and that I can keep him there. For now, I need to be able to get to him over lunch hour(and a half lol) so he's staying where he is.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Moutaineer » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Beautiful place, Dresseur!

Mari, it's frustrating that they fall apart so quickly, but he'll come back together quickly too, I'm sure. Just you be careful with your neck!

Laddie is funny. After 3 months of strictly enforced handwalking only, we are now allowed to trot a few long sides every session. He was really unsure about it to start with--"Can I do this? Is it going to hurt?" But now he's "woohoo! I can move!" (I, of course, have to keep up with all 17 hands of him and stay out of his feet and stop him smoothly in a straight line... and as it is hot out, and I'm recovering from the upper respiratory thing from hell, I'm a wheezing wreck by the time we are done. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, I guess!)

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby demi » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:29 pm

Flight, congratulations!! Ding looks like a real educated fellow in that pic. I remember the vids quite a while back when he was just learning changes. You've come a long way.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Sue B » Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:57 pm

Great updates everyone...Flight, Rosie, Gwen, Dresseur, Moutaineer, Impirini and everyone else whom I've forgotten. I love reading your posts and seeing all the wonderful pictures.

So I can finally post that I have now ridden 5 days in. a. row!!!! Yeah, not much of an accomplishment unless you factor in the crazy weather and my schedule. Lol. The horses are great (of course) and, in spite of my hit-and-miss riding, they seem to be progressing. Still trying to catch a time when ds can video me though so I can verify. Working without stirrups while riding Rudy this spring, has really helped to solidify and center my position, which in turn, has made me more effective, duh. Just for the fun of it, I ran Rudy through 2nd Lvl 3, and was shocked about how simple it was and how well it flowed. I'm thinking it's another sign that we will be ready for 3rd lvl next year. Meanwhile, I continue to work on those mediums in all 3 gaits as a means of further improving collection. The other day a dust devil popped up in the newly cut hay field next door, lifting clumps of alfalfa up into the air just across form my arena where we were doing a right lead medium canter down the long side. Startled, Rudy did a quick stop-90 degree right-90 degree left-canter on. :shock: He did it so smoothly and so quickly that I swear I never moved. That's when you know your horse is truly "on the aids." :lol: Meanwhile, Tio has now learned to take the canter both directions and without the aide of a voice cue. He still feels awkward in the canter but that's only because he hasn't relaxed his back yet. On those rare occasions when he relaxes, his canter becomes quite lovely to ride and I look forward to being able to school him longer in it. Until then, we do a ton of t-c-t all over the arena. Not to be out done by Rudy, Tio also is beginning to show some talent in the sudden leaps to the side; although is is not nearly as smooth or athletic feeling. The nice things about his spooks, though, are that he doesn't come uncorked if I lose my seat nor does he spook at the same think twice. Also, the other day I surprised him (on purpose) by asking him to hop over a low (18") jump we had been circling in front of. He responded by stopping in front of the jump (not surprising), briefly looking at it, and then hopping over it and the next jump 2 strides away. This bodes really well for my plan of taking him to really low level event derbies. :P

So, if I look back at my goals, I am making slight progress.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Flight » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:09 pm

Gwen - nice pics!! And congrats for your results at your show.
Dresseur, wow that place looks beautiful!!! Big move to do with all the horses etc, and I hope your trainer settles in well.
Mari, my horses can be a bit full of it when they have some time off like that, hopefully Odin settles for you after a couple of rides. Sounds like you finished on a good note though.
SueB, sounds like some good rides with your horses :)

I took little Ding to a jumping lesson because the big horse was dog lame, I think he might get little abcesses as there's nothing else obvious and in the past the farrier has found evidence of one later on. Anyway, I used to try and do some small eventing with Ding, but he chickened out when the jumps got higher than his knees and I think I pushed him a bit much too early. So, the lady I go to for jumping lessons is very good for getting your basics right and Ding seemed go really well. No stopping or rushing or being worried, so I was really happy.
Just a bit over the fog here lately. Every morning and lasting up til midday some days! Arghh winter!

dingjumplesson.jpg
dingjumplesson.jpg (71.43 KiB) Viewed 28595 times

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Rosie B » Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:57 pm

Congratulations Gwen! Those are great results! And you both look good. Callie is such a cutie. It's no wonder you have interest in her!

mari - Sound like you dealt with a bit of a difficult day well... Bliss can be a little loopy after some time off too. Those are great days to school lots of transitions like you did. Hope your neck is healing well.

Dresseur - WOW that place is stunning! Best of luck for everyone settling in post move and hopefully things work out for the best with Miro so that you can move him there too.

Mountaineer - Yay! I frankly would be intimidated jogging 17 hands of hot horse in hand... Hopefully he's being a very good boy for you.

Flight - sorry to hear Norsey is off. Hope he bounces back. Ding looks like he's having fun! I love that you jump them too. :)

Sue B that is awesome!!! Sound like you are doing some great work. You inspired me to take a run through 1-3 last night...it was definitely not perfect but it really highlighted what we need to work on. Mainly, a steady connection so that he is always accessible, adjustable, and attentive!

Happy riding to those in the saddle, and healing thoughts to those humans and equines who are in recovery.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Dresseur » Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:24 pm

Finally a Miro update, he's been very slightly off for about 3 weeks, no discernible heat/swelling/digital pulse, but last week I asked the vet to come out and make sure that nothing insidious was happening under the surface. X-rays and ultrasounds showed a pristine leg and hoof with no sign of a lurking abscess. He blocked sound at the heels so the vet suspects a very deep bruise and the remedy is simply more time off. So, bummer, but the boy is an absolute klutz in the pasture. In the meantime, I'm still getting saddle time on other horses, so I'll keep waiting. But, he grew again and he's looking fat (too fat) and happy so I can't wait to get back on him and work some of the weight off the air fern.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Ponichiwa » Fri Jun 23, 2017 2:23 pm

All, I'm impressed and inspired by the progress month-on-month and year-on-year. Gwen, I'm enamored with your pony. She's adorable!

Kiwi and I are checking in late for this one. In some respects, it's the same story as in months before: lots of job drama (turbulent times for my industry), inconsistent riding. However, we've had some absolutely great rides recently. I'm now allowed to "get at" her hind end in the collected trot and canter, to the point where I can ask for half-steps and actually get half-steps instead of this vaguely threatening feeling. Walk/canter, similarly, has gone from a hold-your-breath-this-might-be-a-rodeo (I do realize this is a counter-productive attitude, but hey I'm human) to downright civilized.

Downside of working more on the extremes of collection is that her short-neck tendency is reverting. So I'm channeling lots of the discussion from the Hands/Connection thread from a few weeks ago as well as reminding myself to give her plenty of breaks to honestly stretch forward. To be honest I think it's a strength issue and will improve as she gets stronger.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Ryeissa » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:35 pm

Yes, I've also needed to "sit towards the front of my saddle". Which is interesting, I tend to throw my shoulders forward to "try to stay out of the hole" and then my pelvis gets out of wack. When I sit towards the front in all gaits I natually have my seat balanced, I don't need to babysit my shoulders or pelvic angle. Interesting. My trainer said it was all 1/4 " so, not dramatic.

I've just been doing my lessons most weeks, lots of riding out (remember I live at an eventing barn, so full XC course, hills, etc)

Trying to focus on the relationship vs specific goals, but I always work on the same ideas- shape the horse with the seat, don't rush, outside rein, don't cross the withers with the reins, elbows at the side, don't sit too much to the right, etc.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:30 pm

I agree that this is a dedicated group, and I do appreciate the updates, stories and photos.

Since the Jeremy Steinberg clinic, I've been fixated on addressing gait quality first and foremost. I took his advice to heart that with the hard to connect horse, you have to power them up/get more engagement for the connection to happen. We are obviously works in progress, but this is clearly good advice for us. Movements are fairly easy when we are powered up! I feel like I have a much more expensive horse these days ;-)

I am also being better about consistently demanding a better "base" trot and canter. Emi is not always pleased with this in the first few seconds of a gait, but the new standard is getting much more normal. I like that and she is feeling good and strong. Her butt is huge :-0 ...as in bigger than we've ever managed to get it with good weight before! lol I feel so lucky to have her as my partner is this journey.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:10 pm

I was curious about this quote from page 17 of June USDF connection about biomechanics. It is speaking to when I move towards the front of the saddle, correct? However, I do not tilt backwards, I sit in level spine. I don't push down and smush with my seatbones, as we are sometimes taught in the driving german school. I found I actually sit a wee bit lighter in the sense I use more tone in the thigh so I don't plop on the back, I hold my own self so I don't sit deep into the horse. This creates a back that allows me to suction down, ideally, and stays balanced. I'm on the horse but not driving. I also have a lighter foot, 90% thigh and 10% seat pressure. 0% pressure in ankle. I tend to jam down too much into my ankle, which causes me to work against my horse. (I study Mary Wanless-esque type classical german dressage lately). My horse is very hot, reactive, wiggly and forward. I have to create stability first.

Anyways, here is the quote

"a following seat in dressage is more of a neutral spine alignment, as the rider moves up the levels they spend more time in posterior pelvic tilt which Dr Clayton calls the collecting seat.the rider engages the lower ab muscles and glutes and hamstring muscles and her seat bones glide to the front of the saddle...the pelvis is locked backwards allowing the rider to influence the horse"

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby musical comedy » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:20 pm

Ryeissa wrote:I was curious about this quote from page 17 of June USDF connection about biomechanics. It is speaking to when I move towards the front of the saddle, correct? However, I do not tilt backwards, I sit in level spine. "
I don't know what you're doing, but it doesn't sound like what clayton is speaking about. A picture is worth a thousand words. I'm a huge Claton fan, but I don't like the posterior pelvic tilt, and I have a history of riding like that which I am trying to break. That said, if done for an instant to collect, I'm ok with it.

Image

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:58 pm

musical comedy wrote:
Ryeissa wrote:I was curious about this quote from page 17 of June USDF connection about biomechanics. It is speaking to when I move towards the front of the saddle, correct? However, I do not tilt backwards, I sit in level spine. "
I don't know what you're doing, but it doesn't sound like what clayton is speaking about. A picture is worth a thousand words. I'm a huge Claton fan, but I don't like the posterior pelvic tilt, and I have a history of riding like that which I am trying to break. That said, if done for an instant to collect, I'm ok with it.

Image


I know what the posterior pelvic tilt is, Clayton said that collection maintains this tilt. I do not prefer to do this tilt when I ask for collection, but I do engage the abs in this same way but pelvis stays neutral.

I am asking more for feedback on the going to the front of the saddle since at least two others are experimenting with how that puts us in better balance.

I didn't realize that as we ask for ab engagemnt that also brings the seatbones to the front of the saddle, but i guess it makes sense.

For me, I have to correct the tendancy to have a back with too much arch in it, so my tilting is not for collection, its to create a neutral pelvis.

I don't tip it back or forward, well, mostly. I'm sure as I engage for a moment it might go back a tad, as you said. But I don't want to stay there.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Dresseur » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:35 pm

I have been taught to sit to the front or "crowd" the front of the saddle, especially in the canter work. The core and lats need to be engaged and for collection - on a horse that has been trained to follow the back, I bring my weight back a bit and the horse follows. But no tipping or bringing the pelvis out of a neutral position. On young horses or horses that need a bit of help, I will sit more on my thigh so that I'm not bringing the whole of my weight down onto their backs.

The biomechanical reason for this feeling of crowding the pommel is that people who sit to the back of the saddle have let their hips get behind them, which makes them sit with the shoulders leading the movement, legs in front, and a closed hip angle. In that position, there is no strength or leverage to the rider's seat and the rider will tend to be behind the movement, rather than leading it.

I read the article as well and in that quote, she says this:
the rider engages the lower ab muscles and glutes and hamstring muscles and her seat bones glide to the front of the saddle


I couldn't make heads or tails of that, because anytime you engage the glutes, you are popping yourself up out of the saddle, and the hamstrings afaik also should not be engaged. Any time I've felt my hamstrings, I've been drawing my leg up the side of the horse in a not good way. Sure, there is tone to the thigh, but mostly through the abductors and the muscles used to bring the thigh into contact with the saddle (that classic turned in leg position).

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby musical comedy » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:45 pm

Dresseur wrote:I couldn't make heads or tails of that <snipped>
This happens frequently when discussions are about someone's writing on how to sit and what to feel. Each horse is different; each rider's conformation is different; each rider's style is different. What works for one, won't work for another. Not everyone will be able to obtain the perfect 'classical' position. And really, anyone that has been riding under instruction for a long time ought know by now how to sit and what faults they have that need to be improved.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:10 pm

musical comedy wrote:
Dresseur wrote:I couldn't make heads or tails of that <snipped>
This happens frequently when discussions are about someone's writing on how to sit and what to feel. Each horse is different; each rider's conformation is different; each rider's style is different. What works for one, won't work for another. Not everyone will be able to obtain the perfect 'classical' position. And really, anyone that has been riding under instruction for a long time ought know by now how to sit and what faults they have that need to be improved.



Actually no, that is the direct quote that I typed from the magazine so not a mis-speak on my part. This is why I brought it up, usually Clayton is en pointe with her writing.

Here is the quote again:
"a following seat in dressage is more of a neutral spine alignment, as the rider moves up the levels they spend more time in posterior pelvic tilt which Dr Clayton calls the collecting seat.the rider engages the lower ab muscles and glutes and hamstring muscles and her seat bones glide to the front of the saddle...the pelvis is locked backwards allowing the rider to influence the horse"


MC:
Of course I know my faults, too much it seems!

as I said I am learning the benefits to sitting closer to the front of a saddle, for me it's 1/4" but prevents me from throwing my shoulders forward and keeps my pelvis neutral.

I was just wondering if the seat bones truely slide forward, and if this is what the others are discussing here by sitting closer to the front of the saddle.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Dresseur » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:16 pm

MC, I agree that while FEELINGS are hard to convey (strength of an aid, timing, the desired response etc, I think that we can talk specifically about engaging certain muscles groups since while proportions are different, we do all share the same anatomy. Because that was a direct quote speaking specifically about the hamstrings and glutes, which I do not believe you want to engage while riding, I am questioning it. (now, that brings into the equation what are we each being taught and is it correct or not :lol: :lol: )

That all being said, I wish there was a sensory swap so that we could all feel what the riders we want to emulate are feeling. It would be so much easier that way :lol: :lol: lol

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby musical comedy » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:43 pm

Rye, by 'someone's writing' I was referring to Clayton not you.

Dresseur, I know I should be ashamed to admit this, but I don't even know the muscle groups by name. Therefore, I don't know which one's I engage or don't engage. I know I do not sit as straight as you do Dressuer.

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Ryeissa » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:47 pm

thanks for clarifying MC.

I disagree that things are fluid and one rider will have a very different experience, mechanics work a certain way in the anatomy.

I don't think glutes is the correct thing to tense, I agree. I'll have to think some more about the seatbones and exactly how clayton wants them to move and if that is going to work for me. I suspect that no, I don't tilt them at all. I instead move my pelvis as a unit more towards the front. So I answered my own question!

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby musical comedy » Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:21 pm

I pulled this from a Euro article.

Richard Weis wrote:Trainer Richard Weis points out that a working seat and a collected seat have to be different because they are asking different responses from the horse. "Simply put, a collected seat asks the horse to express more energy with more lift," says Richard. "Not surprisingly, the horse gets this idea because the rider takes on the same features – more energy - more lift. More energy comes from a higher tone, more lift comes because the spring from that higher tone is concentrated vertically."
Therefore, Richard notes that a picture taken from the side of a good collecting seat would be narrower than a picture of a working seat. "The vertical intensity is achieved by the rider bringing the whole back forward in the saddle. The thigh drops more vertically back and down making a straighter hip joint angle," Weis explained.


source: http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/ ... sical-seat

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Re: Goals and Progress May/June 2017

Postby Ryeissa » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:36 pm

thanks MC, I'm going to do some more work on this topic, its very interesting. The more you know, the more you don't know...I guess! :)


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