July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

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Flight
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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Flight » Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:40 am

LOL I've done that before too Chisamba, got into the pool next to a top level swimmer - he just glided through the water and looked lazy doing it, whilst I'm flapping like a shot duck getting no where. :D

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby musical comedy » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:42 am

Flight wrote:MC you've ridden to GP (or close to it) I think? No, only a poor psg. I've never ridden a piaffe/passage except for the feeling one gets when a ground person is tapping from behind. That actually felt easy to sit.
I find my better trained horse easier to ride (medium level) than the prelim one. This might be due to type and size - the younger one is very big and bouncy, and he takes a lot of core strength not to bounce off over his shoulder if he sticks his head down, or gets on my hands when he loses balance! The other horse, I now have to remember to give him breaks when we school, before I was gladly wanting the breaks to rest myself. I can only speak for myself and my current old guy is the highest trainer dressage horse I've ridden and he has holes in his training that were never patched. I have ridden young, green horses easier than older trained horses and vice-versa. It just depends on the horse. I was 56 or so when I bought current horse so maybe a lot of my problems have to do with that. But he's really hard for me. Since this is a perspiration/progress thread, I'll just say that yesterday's ride was so disheartening that I don't even want to get on him again. I feel like a total beginner riding a green horse.

I thought as they get trained higher, they get lighter and more balanced to sit on, therefore less strength needed to ride??
No personal experience here; only opinion. Sitting the gaits is only one aspect of it. For me, it's when you have to keep it all together for the accuracy in the movements required in a test.

Chisamba wrote:Riding upper level is comparable. The constant but small engagement adjustments preparation and application may seem effortless compared to riding a lower level horse but it is neither effortless nor gimmicky.
Upper level riders doing nothing but sitting using gimmicks? That does sound like a gym rat opinion.
That's what I think too and the swimming comparison is a good one. Another is to watch a smooth profession hunter round. It looks so fluid and easy, but it is really hard.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Tsavo » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:26 pm

Well, in one of her articles or books, M. Wanless says that elite riders are doing things they are not conscious of and actually deny doing. So is it possible they are using mostly anatomy tricks without knowing it. That may be why you are skeptical of this possibility.

Anyone who tries to balance on a BOSU can prove this to themselves instantly. And it is not likely that this is the only gimmick out there. I think "talent" is really physical ability (like bringing the shoulder blades back and down) plus tact and timing with plenty of practice and experimentation. This is how young people can become the best in the world. They have exquisite physical ability plus a very good sense of tact and timing from experimentation and practice. If it was just the latter two things then we would expect mainly older people to be the best. But we don't see that. There has to be something else and that something else is physical ability to assume the position and know the gimmicks. I would be further ahead in riding if someone told me that balance was linked directly to the shoulder blade position. That's my opinion.

Let's not get caught up in words. Classical equitation involves shoulder blades back and down. You cannot argue with that. What I am saying is how it instantaneously improves balance and that this is not just some affectation. There is no need to romanticize riding. In my opinion it is mostly empirical knowledge with ad hoc reasoning tacked on and with a smattering of "just so stories". There are real anatomical reasoning for these empirical discoveries. We all have known that. I am just saying this one with shoulder blades is one that is night and day and instant.
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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Tsavo » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:34 pm

And I am not saying there is no effort for elite riders. I think their minds are going a mile a minute assessing each second of work.

I am saying my observation of a GP trainer working day in and day out for several years is that it appears physically less taxing to ride GP compared to say rehabbing a less trained horse. I would say just training up a non-rehab looks similar to the GP horse in terms of the appearance of being physically taxing. That is just my opinion watching the face, breathing rate, etc. of this GP rider day in and day out. YMMV

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Tsavo » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:21 pm

musical comedy wrote:Since this is a perspiration/progress thread, I'll just say that yesterday's ride was so disheartening that I don't even want to get on him again. I feel like a total beginner riding a green horse.


I am sorry to hear this. I have an older horse also and I have learned to manage my expectations. It is hard. I lost too much time with too many lessons and the wrong lessons and I fight bitterness often. My horse at his age has lost his excellent canter which used to be his best gait. And it is never coming back no matter how much hill work or arena work I do. It is still balanced and adjustable but it is nothing like it was in terms of silent bounce off the ground. I missed the window of actually doing something with that. I am bitter.

But he is still a medium horse in theory and is sound. He is sensitive and not a push ride which I really appreciate. He is perfect for me to gain ground finally in prep for my next and final horse. So while he will probably never advance more, I can still advance and hope to get PERFECT at everything he can do. And he is fun to ride such that I can drag my carcass out of bed early 5 days a week to do it. If he wasn't fun I would not be doing that I am very sure.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby StraightForward » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:30 pm

Maybe technique is a better word than gimmick? If an adjustment makes something both better and easier, that just seems like good technique to me.

I had my first lesson with a new instructor on Miss. Green Banana yesterday. I run and go to the gym and do riding-specific exercises - granted I'm not in tip top shape right now - and I was definitely getting winded and asking for breaks with the amount of work it was to keep her working properly, and especially supporting her enough in the canter. I'm riding in a jumping saddle right now, and it seems to engage a whole different set of leg muscles, but the back and core are always needed in one way or another.

So as far as the progress topic - I really liked my lesson, and will probably continue with this person. She had me getting Annabelle more connected than I was on my own, but I was still comfortable with the head position she said was where she wanted her. It was definitely not curled or broken in the neck in the name of roundness. We worked on coming down from trot to walk more slowly and then trotting on again if she inverted and lost connection. She also had us do a walking TOF, and then trot out of it, which helped her get the idea of outside rein, as well as being in front of the leg. It was a challenging exercise for her, as she was still trying to figure out where her legs were in the lateral movement by the time we asked to trot out. We also did some baby LY in trot. Overall, it gave me a feel of what to shoot for over the next few weeks, and confidence to ask for more than I have. If I ride her that way consistently, I think she'll be ready to put in a decent TL test in September.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Chisamba » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:32 pm

Tsavo wrote:And I am not saying there is no effort for elite riders. I think their minds are going a mile a minute assessing each second of work.

I am saying my observation of a GP trainer working day in and day out for several years is that it appears physically less taxing to ride GP compared to say rehabbing a less trained horse. I would say just training up a non-rehab looks similar to the GP horse in terms of the appearance of being physically taxing. That is just my opinion watching the face, breathing rate, etc. of this GP rider day in and day out. YMMV


That doesn't mean that what they do is artificial, for show and without intrinsic value.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Tsavo » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:53 pm

Chisamba wrote:
Tsavo wrote:And I am not saying there is no effort for elite riders. I think their minds are going a mile a minute assessing each second of work.

I am saying my observation of a GP trainer working day in and day out for several years is that it appears physically less taxing to ride GP compared to say rehabbing a less trained horse. I would say just training up a non-rehab looks similar to the GP horse in terms of the appearance of being physically taxing. That is just my opinion watching the face, breathing rate, etc. of this GP rider day in and day out. YMMV


That doesn't mean that what they do is artificial, for show and without intrinsic value.


I never said that. I don't think we disagree if you stick with what I have stated.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby musical comedy » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:57 pm

StraighForward, which one is AnnaBelle? Is that one you bought at as 2 year old? If so, is she back from the trainer now and with you?

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Tsavo » Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:57 pm

StraightForward wrote:Maybe technique is a better word than gimmick? If an adjustment makes something both better and easier, that just seems like good technique to me.


Maybe.

At this point in my riding I am so far beyond words. Words can be an impediment. Only the thing matters, not what it is called.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Dresseur » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:46 pm

I've been following along with interest- will post a lengthy reply when I have some time to actually sit and think on it :)

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Tsavo » Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:24 pm

Dresseur wrote:I've been following along with interest- will post a lengthy reply when I have some time to actually sit and think on it :)


Looking forward to hearing your ideas.

I don't know if there are any GP trainers on this board but I would love to hear from them if my observations of that one GP trainer is usual in terms of effort level between riding her GP horse versus some of the rehab cast of characters I saw her work.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Moutaineer » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:16 pm

Walker and I had a clinic/lesson yesterday with probably the best of the local trainers. I think she's going to come to the barn once a month or so and help us all, which will be great, if it happens.

The day started with ridiculousness. Walker is a wily old bird, and having watched me turn the trailer round the previous evening and load it up, he knew something was up, especially when I came out to get him at an unusual time of day for us to go ride.

The long and the short of it is that it took me 45 minutes to catch him, during which time he ran around and got hot and sweaty and then rolled in the manure pile... which isn't a good look for a mostly white horse.

A few frantic phone calls to switch spots with another rider gave me time to get him more or less cleaned up and over to the barn.

Walker is in pretty good shape from a soundness and wind perspective, especially bearing in mind he is 21 and has been largely out of work for 2 years until about 2 months ago. He's got a great neck and topline down to mid-saddle area, then things don't looks so good. His hind end has always been a bit weak, and it has deteriorated with the lack of work.

Trainer was really interesting. She has a couple of oldies in upper level work in her barn, so she knows how to work with them, and to be fair to them, which is always something I worry about with him. I haven't ridden him with her before, though I have ridden Laddie with her.

Her observation was that our fundamental problem is he simply doesn't understand that his back is a bridge. He's using his front end and his hind end as separate entities and isn't getting the connection between the two of them. So we spent 45 minutes working on connection at the walk and at a little, sittable, not much effort for him pony trot. (Pony trot or not, my abs are somewhat shocked today... I haven't ridden seriously since February.)

Working largely on a 20 meter or smaller circle, shoulder in, leg yield, keep the hind end moving, keep the connection. He has a tendency to chatter on and off the bit. You know you've got the connection when he stops chattering and his ears go floppy to the sides, and you can feel his back come up under your seat.

Working on all this, I remember how seat-responsive Walker can be. I can "suck" him into connection with my core and seat and, (Tsavo :)) my back and shoulder blades. (Hence the screaming body and abs today.) I don't have to use my hands much. Neither of us can maintain this for very long, but we get short burst of really nice stuff.

Our homework is to keep doing it. I've been out clearing thistles (and bear poop...) from my neglected ring this morning so we don't have to go to the barn to use the arena all the time. I'm enthused to keep working with him, especially as all this is stuff that will transfer to Laddie once he's back to work.

Walker seems none the worse for wear today, tootling around his paddock in his normal cheerful way, so I don't think we over-did it.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Ryeissa » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:52 pm

I hear ya Moutineer, I sometimes wonder.... what a cheeky guy.

My horse isn't old, but then they show up all fresh and ready, and you wonder how much they can really do :) Sounds like very good work all around.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby piedmontfields » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:01 pm

I am enjoying everyone's updates and reflections. I think we need another thread on "gimmicks" "techniques" or what I like to call "secrets of riding." :D

Had a couple of great rides in the cooler temps here. Emi is feeling strong and capable, for which I am so grateful. I have started to ride with spurs sometimes and it is fine by her. I think when I (occasionally) use them she prefers it to an overly loud leg aid. Had super canter work today and we are back in the groove of our trot homework (aka when you don't have a great trot, guess what you get to work on--in one way or another--every workout). Those of you with horses who have a natural 8 or 9 or 10 trot---be grateful and ride that big trot!! lol We really have to push to get something like a 7 trot.

I also enjoyed exploring canter HP with changing flexions and canter HP to canter plies out in the fields today.Both really help get the pelvis working (hers). It is fun to do this in a big long field because you can repeat multiple times down a "long side."

I'm noticing that it is getting easier and easier to switch gears between working, medium (-ish in trot, real in canter) and collected gaits. Like Mountaineer's Walker, Emi is very responsive to the seat. My abs are sore in a good way after a week of too hot temps for doing more than walking in the shade!

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby musical comedy » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:19 pm

piedmontfields wrote: I think we need another thread on "gimmicks" "techniques" or what I like to call "secrets of riding." :D
I was going to suggest we have a spin-off thread so as not to take the progress thread off course. What should we call it?

I discovered a 'gimmick' just today in my ride which miraculously was improved from yesterday. I expected him to be really stiff because I did more cantering and schooled changes yesterday. It was one of my better rides. LOL, I was trying to do Tsavo's shoulders-back exercise.

I didn't realize Mountaineer was out of the saddle for so long. My horse and I were out for close to 6 months. I'm surprised we are back as well as we are. It's hard bringing old rider, old horse back. I now have 87 rides in. The old saying is for every month off, it takes that many to get back to where you were.

Today the weather is glorious!

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Ryeissa » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:26 pm

I am seeing more reach into the shoulder/articulation in the front legs, but it's sort of hard to know for sure.

This all derives from a lot of slow walk work placing. ever. foot. down. deliberately. and. not. flinging. himself. around..... we wanted his front to stay under him so his sternum would lift. He used to fling his front legs out too far and fast, being the very very motivated and enthusasitc guy that he is!
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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Moutaineer » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:32 pm

MC, I retired Walker from serious work 2.5 years ago--just couldn't keep him sound. The rest has done him good and so far he is staying in one piece. Laddie is my "new" horse with whom I was set to go 3rd level this year, who has been out since the end of February with a strained ACL, and is probably out for the best part of a year.

So I've been dinking around with Walker for the past couple of months or so since the weather has been nice (he lives at home,) but not really putting much effort into it, while Laddie is on handwalking only (at the eye-wateringly expensive barn...) Which is where I am about to head out to now.

Good idea to track your ride count. I should start doing that.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby piedmontfields » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:36 pm

Mountaineer wrote: Good idea to track your ride count. I should start doing that.


Yes. It is both validating and sobering!!

(a good month to me is 20 rides. July was 18, but I traveled too much.)

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Ponichiwa » Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:33 pm

My GP horse was both easier and harder to ride than greener horses. Easier, because he and I had so much history together that he knew what I meant when I asked for things, even if I wasn't spot-on accurate with my aids. I did train him myself but ultimately it felt like he took some initiative to do the work, and could anticipate my intent/direction. Additionally, I could "think" my aids and he'd be there with a response, like he was tuned in to my frequency. Green horses, or re-training prospects, don't have that same level of understanding of nuance and are tougher rides in that respect. You've got to be very strong in your own position/timing/tempo so as not to be sucked into the baby horse vortex of leaning forward.

On the other hand, GP is all about extremes. Extreme collection, extension, lateral work, number of changes, etc. Not easy stuff, that.

Shifting gears to goals... my goal was by the end of July, ride through a 3rd level test. I did it! Was it pretty, no. But all of the pieces are there and we are getting more fluent in the transitions between them.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby musical comedy » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:06 pm

piedmontfields wrote:(a good month to me is 20 rides. July was 18, but I traveled too much.)
20 rides IS a good amount. What I do is print out a calendar and just circle the days I rode in red. Before my layup I kept a daily journal. Now don't laugh or roll eyes, but I have to track my rides and other things because my memory is bad. Old age I guess. When you don't work and hibernate on the farm, each day is the same. So I forget if I rode yesterday or not if I don't write it down. I honestly often don't know what day it is and neither does DH.

Mountaineer, I knew about Laddie on stall rest and that you started back your senior, I just didn't realize you were off that long before starting Walker back. The really bad part for me is that during my time off I didn't exercise either because I was fretting about my health. I'm really out of shape.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby kande50 » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:56 pm

musical comedy wrote:I don't like the lack of control when being lunged. I mean the loss of having reins and being dependent on the lunger. I suppose it is a trust issue, more of the lunger than of the horse. It's just that horse can for any reason misbehave, I feel I can control that better with my reins than a lunger can on the line. The key is to have a good lunging horse. Mine wouldn't be. Also, I think I've already said that I don't like the idea of horses going round and round and round in a circle. It isn't good for their limbs. jmo.


I decided way back when I first started riding that I wanted to develop my seat, so have always been happy to let go of the reins.

And if it wasn't for the repetitive circles, which I also think are a bad idea for horses, I'd enjoy lunge lessons. In fact, one of my favorite exercises used to be jumping through grids without reins or stirrups, although I've always been much happier about giving up my reins than my stirrups. :-)

I think it's because I've always loved the idea of horses running wild and free with me just along for the ride, so I'm always trying to create some version of that.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Srhorselady » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:02 am

A quick response for those who asked about ballet and riding. Since I learned to ride as an adult once I understood what I should be doing anatomically (had up down lessons for a while plus instructors who didn't explain the position I should be in) it took me over two years of working both on and off a horse to change my automatic out rotation to in. My riding progression matched the change in my muscle memory. The other major problem was short hamstrings due to being on my toes. Ballet is very athletic and keeps you fit but is NOT good exercise for riding. I think gymnastics would be much better.

On the question of whether riding an upper level horse is easier than a lower. Of course it depends on the horse. I have/had a prix st g trained school master (now retired) and he was both the easiest and the hardest horse to ride. IF you knew what you were doing and he knew you knew (tricky devil occasionally) he was easy, fun, and strawberry jam to ride. He took the lightest aids, he was rhythmical and balanced. It was like floating with minimal effort. However, if he decided that I wasn't on my best game that day everything took tremendous effort. You had to work to earn this from him and sometimes it was every ride to get to the strawberry jam. With my less advanced horses sometimes they didn't know how or made mistakes or most often I made the mistakes. So it was work of a different kind.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Srhorselady » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:10 am

Oh one other comment about the ballet. In ballet you frequently balance on one leg not two and in positions with your torso laid back, forward etc and using your arms as part of the balance. You learn to shift your center of balance. Again not wonderful for riding.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby kande50 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:12 am

musical comedy wrote:When you don't work and hibernate on the farm, each day is the same. So I forget if I rode yesterday or not if I don't write it down. I honestly often don't know what day it is and neither does DH.


I take care of a couple of friends' dogs while they work so have to keep track of days and drop off/pickup times. Good thing too, or I'd be completely lost in time and space.

I'm not riding seriously enough to videotape my rides anymore, but did up until this summer, and kept most of the footage so that I could go back to see how often I rode, how long, and what I worked on. Not that I went back and looked at very much very often, but the record was there if I wanted to see what we'd been doing.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby StraightForward » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:37 am

Well poop.

I headed out to the barn early this morning looking forward to practicing the things we worked on in our lesson yesterday. I put Annabelle on the lunge for a few minutes because she usually needs to cough a few times when she starts working, so I prefer she do that when I'm not holding the reins. Something got her amped up and she bucked a few times and bolted, then slipped and went splat pretty hard and scraped some hair off of her stifle and got a small abrasion. She popped up and trotted off like nothing had happened, but I decided to cancel the day's ride, walked her a bit and washed her down with Sore No More. This evening I went out to check on her, and there's a pretty significant swelling in that area, so cold hosing and bute it is. She was not head-bobbing, but seemed a little short at the trot. Jingles that it's nothing serious appreciated. I will probably get her to the vet in the next day or two for radiograph and/or ultrasound, given the location of the swelling though. We don't need any stifle problems.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Moutaineer » Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:22 am

Well, crap, Straightforward... VERY STRONG jingles for NO stifle problems!!!

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Kyra's Mom » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:37 am

Straightforward...crap. Hopefully just a bruise and she will be fine. I had a youngster once that went splat on frozen ground and landed on her knees. The next day, one looked like a football. I hauled her to the vet and luckily no fractures. He put a pressure bandage on. She ways being quiet in her pen so I turned her out for a snack a couple days later...yeah, she ran right out of her bandage and I didn't even try to redo it. I should have done some in hand grazing but wanted to get pens cleaned too. She was fine thank goodness.

I thought riding would be fine (butt wise--mine) to start a walking program but not so fast. It wasn't the only insult to my butt that day but I have been more sore since. With the hot weather, I am just not worrying about riding. Between the soreness and the heat, it just isn't enjoyable.

That said, I am making a better effort on doing some ground work. Today I had a really nice liberty session in the round pen. We worked on transitions. We warmed up with W-T-W and T-C-T. Then I made it a little more interesting. I had her halt from trot or canter, back up 2-3 steps then canter off immediately. Usually I have to step closer to her to get the back up because she likes to present her butt to me then spin and take off the other direction. We had one discussion about that but I was able to reposition her with my body then back and canter. Other than that one she was spot on and I just hung out in the middle of the RP. She ended up a with a lovely active trot with nice (for her) suspension. She showed nice self carriage, stretching properly through the neck with no under muscle sticking out. She was pretty pleased with herself as was I.

With not riding much this year, I also been working on ground manners. Kyra is 15 and I have done lots of ground work and NH since I got her as a coming 2 y.o. Even then, she can take over in a moment. Things like bolting through gates, leading me, thinking she knows what I want before I ask her. I realized that I have not been particular enough about my requests. She has made a lot of progress in learning to wait for my request instead of throwing out what she thinks I want and usually at light speed. She truly is starting to look to me and I think it will transition nicely under saddle when I can get back to riding. She is certainly much more pleasant to be around and work around.

Happy riding all.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby mari » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:07 am

I'm jumping a bit more than I'm doing dressage at the moment. The forward seat is easier on my neck.

Two weeks ago, we zoomed through a gymnastic exercise *very* enthusiastically. He never looks very fast on video, but he is unstoppably deliberate and strong. Last week Thursday we did a lot of cavaletti in the lesson, and another grid exercise. He was really good overall, although also very strong. A friend took some video, which is so helpful, wish I could record every ride...

Because he's so strong, I tend to sit up too quickly after a jump. Definitely need to stay a bit softer and forward on landing. In the first video, he was not at all focused on the last upright, tanked me to it, and had to twist his back end to get over it. Nearly unseated me! But overall, I was so happy with this ride. The fearfulness I've regressed to over the last year was so much better, and I could think and ride and enjoy my horse :D

https://youtu.be/6hE-j4cvmvE

https://youtu.be/ACv0L2D6cn4
The aim of argument or of discussion should not be victory, but progress. ~ Joseph Joubert

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Dresseur » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:47 pm

I'll post my other thoughts on the new thread, but in the meantime. Progress on Gala!

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And a few vids:
This is doux passage. Gala has never had the best passage - and if you take her to a larger "grande" passage, she hollows in the back. Out of this doux passage, the transitions in and out of piaffe are smooth and stay round and under.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VITwv3USQs

3s, no stirrups
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JemhGT1RAMo

2s. Sort of looks like I MAY know what I'm doing. The misses where because I didn't set up enough (edited to add... whoops, HERE are the two's... I accidentally posted the 3s twice.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JemhGT1RAMo
Last edited by Dresseur on Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:00 pm

Edited to remove link
Last edited by Ryeissa on Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Dresseur » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:28 pm

Ryeissa, it's a lovely walk! And if you are straight, you're ahead of the game!

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby musical comedy » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:55 pm

Ryeissa wrote:^^ I am NOT following that....ugggghhh ok, here it goes....sigh.

Look my horse can walk in a straight line- LOL

https://youtu.be/mU4nR_o3_A4

for me this is definite progress and shows more deliberate steps, and better articulation of the shoulder.
The walk is great. I'd like to have it. However, you look so like you're walking on eggs (for lack of a better term). I mean, you look like you are afraid to move for fear of screwing it up. Can you go from that walk straight into sitting trot and then back to that walk again?

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby demi » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:24 pm

Ryeissa, that walk looks good! and thank you for sharing it. I think you are moving very nicely in harmony and balance with Riot. I would put money on you being able to go right into sitting trot and back again.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby demi » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:42 pm

Nice vids Mari! I can only remember his still photos jumping, so when i saw the vid I was surprised at what a forward boy he is.

Dresseur, I So enjoyed watching you and Gala. I never knew there was a difference in passages, so obviously, I'm no expert, but the one you had her in looks very harmonious. I look at dressage horses for the artistic picture they present and yours and Gala's is lovely.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:29 pm

musical comedy wrote:However, you look so like you're walking on eggs (for lack of a better term). I mean, you look like you are afraid to move for fear of screwing it up. Can you go from that walk straight into sitting trot and then back to that walk again?


Yes, I can do transitions, as someone who is overly floppy on a wiggly/active horse I have to work hard to not be pulled about.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby mari » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:42 am

demi wrote:Nice vids Mari! I can only remember his still photos jumping, so when i saw the vid I was surprised at what a forward boy he is.

Thanks demi! He's a machine, I just hang on for the ride :lol:

Ryeissa - that's a lovely slinky walk!
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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby khall » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:55 pm

Glad all are riding and doing well. Nice videos of Gala dresseur. Mark called the small passage petite passage. Small, active, elevated trot that is easier to move in and out of the piaffe I can see. Curious about the 2's, you said you did not set them up is why the misses. Does Gala have trouble keeping the form in doing the changes? I cannot see that she gets strung out or on her forehand in the 2's. It has been my experience that once the horse knows the tempi changes, as long as the rider keeps the horse up and active the changes are a matter of counting correctly. Timing the aids correctly. The 4's IMO are the hardest because of the time in between them. For me the 2's had a flow to them which made them easier. I did ride a FEI horse that would snort during changes at some point across the diagonal, that would make me miss the changes!

I am actually able to do more than in hand work this week!! Our weather has moderated with less humidity, so while we are still upper 80's to 90, dew point in the 60's makes it feel very bearable. I even rode Rip the Sunday at 4 pm and was fine. Hoping to get more worked today if not too crazy with the workers on the farm doing arena repair and general clean up around the flower beds etc. One more day of decent weather before the rain moves back in. We have had some nasty storms with close lightening to the point it was running me off the mower. That coupled with getting in hay off the field (355 bales without DH and DS!) meant not much done last week or so.

I did take Rip back last week and had him scoped, all is still looking great!! Down to twice weekly oral meds:)

Moutaineer and chisamba hope the hand walking is still going well and both Laddie and Deneb come back just fine. SF, your mare too! Goodness horses can be frustrating!

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Dresseur » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:08 pm

khall wrote:Glad all are riding and doing well. Nice videos of Gala dresseur. Mark called the small passage petite passage. Small, active, elevated trot that is easier to move in and out of the piaffe I can see. Curious about the 2's, you said you did not set them up is why the misses. Does Gala have trouble keeping the form in doing the changes? I cannot see that she gets strung out or on her forehand in the 2's. It has been my experience that once the horse knows the tempi changes, as long as the rider keeps the horse up and active the changes are a matter of counting correctly. Timing the aids correctly. The 4's IMO are the hardest because of the time in between them. For me the 2's had a flow to them which made them easier. I did ride a FEI horse that would snort during changes at some point across the diagonal, that would make me miss the changes!


Oh no, she knows what she's doing :lol: :lol: She's just not overly helpful. It's me not having experience with the changes. So, it's a timing thing and set up as in not making sure that I'm not twisting her and I. I find that because of MY twisting, I have to push the r/l change through a bit harder. It's getting better, but she lets me know when I'm not straight or if my timing in the count is off by doing what you saw in that video. As you can see, I can get right back on count. I just need more saddle time and confidence. With Andrea, she can go forever in those big, expressive changes. She assures me that once I get it, the rhythm of the 2s will be easier than the 4s and 3s. She also says that the 4s are the hardest. Right now, 2s are hard for me. Enough time for stuff to go wrong, not enough time for me to fix it. But, a month ago I was only able to do a couplet of 2s. So, it's getting there!

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Ponichiwa » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:15 pm

I always thought the 1s were the hardest. You get 0 time to fix the underlying canter at all, so things can go sideways (sometimes literally) pretty quickly. Additionally, make sure you install a good "off" button. Otherwise there will be 1-tempis everywhere. Ask me how I know.

Cool front coming in this week (hurray!), which unluckily means rain in the afternoon every day starting today (boo, as I only have access to an outdoor arena). Win some, lose the rest.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Dresseur » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:20 pm

In my limited experience, for me, on Gala, the 1s are easy - as long as I am straight and have the right canter she's a machine. The question was if I could move the hip fast enough (assuming the horse is following the hip, not being cued by the spur or outside leg back or whatever). I had no problem with that movement. That is also the off button. Hold your hip in the lead you want and Gala will stop the ones.

In any case. Because they're easy for me, I'm not allowed to practice them. It's 4s and 3s and 2s with no stirrups. If I'm having a decent day and not twisting, I get to pick my stirrups back up for the 2s.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Chisamba » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:12 pm

I too found twos more difficult than the ones.

Mari, Rye, and Dresseur, enjoyed all 3 videos.

I have been coasting on my beasts as the focus has been on getting g my 4H team ready for the fair.

I have not even done my weekly video. Deneb is in walk training recovery from the kick, and Kimba and I are attempting to make all second level work seem easy.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Ponichiwa » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:40 pm

Wonder if it varies horse to horse as well as rider to rider. I'm a sample size of one with a horse sample size of two (with the changes to ones, but only one that did 15 in a row), so essentially am presenting the worst research data ever. However, once I got the 4s, the 3s came pretty easy. Once the 3s were solid, the 2s fell into place. It was a massive step-change from 2s to 1s for me and Bucky.

Starting to think this may be a me-problem.

And another thing. Did a training ride in the double with Kiwi the other day. Maiden voyage of actually doing work in the double instead of just cruising around the fields allowing her to get used to the idea of lots of metal in her mouth. I'm using a very short-shanked curb and minimal curb contact (sag in the curb rein for now). The major difference I notice is she's much more sucked back feeling in the double vs. snaffle. Thoughts? I'm toying with the idea of thinner bits (currently going in a 16mm bradoon, 20mm curb) but wanted to throw it out there for general cogitation before throwing down $$$ on bits.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Tsavo » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Ryeissa wrote:^^ I am NOT following that....ugggghhh ok, here it goes....sigh.

Look my horse can walk in a straight line- LOL

https://youtu.be/mU4nR_o3_A4

for me this is definite progress and shows more deliberate steps, and better articulation of the shoulder.


I believe this would be considered and EXTREMELY pure walk. Very nice.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby musical comedy » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:52 pm

Ponichiwa wrote:And another thing. Did a training ride in the double with Kiwi the other day. Maiden voyage of actually doing work in the double instead of just cruising around the fields allowing her to get used to the idea of lots of metal in her mouth. I'm using a very short-shanked curb and minimal curb contact (sag in the curb rein for now). The major difference I notice is she's much more sucked back feeling in the double vs. snaffle. Thoughts? I'm toying with the idea of thinner bits (currently going in a 16mm bradoon, 20mm curb) but wanted to throw it out there for general cogitation before throwing down $$$ on bits.
At the dumb advice of a trainer I was using, I put my horse in a double before he was ready for it. We got along ok I guess, but he was never really through and 'taking me' in the double. Eventually I went back to the snaffle and stayed there. I could probably have moved back to the double but didn't see a point because I wasn't on the fast tract of showing.

While like anything there are different opinions on this. Mine is that a horse really needs to be solidly moving into the snaffle bridle before adding the double. Think about it. If they are not solidly into the snaffle, for sure they are going to be even less so in the double. Also, the curb is there for a reason, right? The horse needs to move into the curb in order for it to be activated properly..

In Kiwi's case, maybe she just needs more time to get used to the two bits. You don't say how new this is to her and what kind of contact you had in the snaffle.

As far as thin bits go. I used to just hate how heavy my double bridle was. I thought, gee...all that weight on his poll would have him wanting to drop it. I went and bought thinner Neue Schule bits. They are so much lighter than the old Sprenger ones. Unfortunately, as you know bits are expensive so maybe you could see about finding some to borrow. The pony probably needs a small size making it more difficult.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Flight » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:41 am

I"m a bit behind so might be disruptive to the thread, but wanted to say thanks MC for answering my questions. I do like hearing stories/advice from people who have ridden beyond the early levels.
I hope Annabelle is ok Straightforward, and Kyra's mum - sorry that your bum's still sore, any indication how long it's likely to take to heal and not be sore?

Mari - cool vids! Do you event at all? He's certainly keen!! I think you ride him well, especially if he's so strong.
Dresseur - lovely! The doux passage was great to watch (especially as I had started passage with Ding). You can see her staying engaged. My guy definitely does the dropped back thing but it's early days and always something that will be worked on. Love the changes. I've played with them on Ding too, it's harder than I thought it would be and my timing is pretty bad :D
LOL Ryeissa! But nice vid, yes definitely a good walk.
Was wondering how Rip was, Khall. Great that he is still doing so good.

When I first used a double on Ding, he was definitely backed off at first. It took a little while for both of us to get used to it. I kept the sag in the curb rein and just working on going forward. He can be a bit of a leaner in the snaffle so I do like how lighter he is in the double.

I'm now in week 2 of my knee rehab, off crutches and kinda thinking I want to try riding. However I tried to drive my car and it's a manual. Couldn't lift my foot off the clutch even an inch. So, when I can do that I might try riding the smaller horse 8-)

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby mari » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:32 am

Flight wrote:Mari - cool vids! Do you event at all? He's certainly keen!! I think you ride him well, especially if he's so strong.

*snip

When I first used a double on Ding, he was definitely backed off at first. It took a little while for both of us to get used to it. I kept the sag in the curb rein and just working on going forward. He can be a bit of a leaner in the snaffle so I do like how lighter he is in the double.

I'm now in week 2 of my knee rehab, off crutches and kinda thinking I want to try riding. However I tried to drive my car and it's a manual. Couldn't lift my foot off the clutch even an inch. So, when I can do that I might try riding the smaller horse 8-)


Nope, I'm too chicken for eventing! I have a friend who takes him out for cross country open days, and he has a blast.

Flight - I can sympathise with just want to get on the damn horse already, but don't rush it! Once you're on, you'll probably be fine, but I found the most wrenching things to be getting on and getting off, even with my steady eddy horse at a mounting block.

I have such mixed feelings on double bridles... But I've never trained a horse to a level where they should be ridden in one, so I'm not sure my contrariness actually counts for anything :lol:
The aim of argument or of discussion should not be victory, but progress. ~ Joseph Joubert

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Ryeissa » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:09 pm

piedmontfields wrote:
Mountaineer wrote: Good idea to track your ride count. I should start doing that.


Yes. It is both validating and sobering!!

(a good month to me is 20 rides. July was 18, but I traveled too much.)


yeah, I like to be somewhere around that as well- 17 rides. I always track why I don't go, to see how much was heat/weather issues, illness, and how many were 'because i didn't want to"- luckily few of those. Helps me stay accountable and understand.

I note things like clinic or show watching that interrupts my riding, too, but that does help me progress to some degree.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby kande50 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:33 pm

mari wrote:I have such mixed feelings on double bridles... But I've never trained a horse to a level where they should be ridden in one, so I'm not sure my contrariness actually counts for anything :lol:


I can't imagine having a horse light on the bit in a snaffle and then somehow getting him to take up the rein on the curb the way it's done now, which may be why so many horses are trained to take such a firm hold on the snaffle right from the beginning, so that they're used to taking the pressure when they're put in the double?

When we were kids we all rode in Pelhams, but I found that what happened was that I'd keep slipping the snaffle rein and ride with the curb because the horses were so much more responsive to it. I knew it wasn't right though, so started tying the curb rein to my saddle and leaving it on my horse's neck where it was handy if I needed it (puny, mostly clueless little kid on tough little horses).

Now I've come full circle and ride my mule in a curb out on trail, because I no longer have any plans to show him so am not as concerned about creating mouth issues, and because he can stiffen his neck and be a bull when he decides that he just has to leave right now. When I was stronger it didn't matter, and the only time I picked up the curb was if he was crowding the horse in front of us on a narrow trail, but now I'd just as soon not find out whether I'm still strong enough to stay with him when he takes off. :-)

My horse is different though, because he's sensitive and will go right to jumping around and rearing if he feels the need to go and feels blocked, and I very much want him to stay sensitive so doubt I'll ever ride him in anything other than a snaffle.

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Re: July/August Perspiration and Progress Thread

Postby Imperini » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:32 pm

Thinking good thoughts for those of you with horses on rest and/or recovering as well as those recovering from their own repairs. Also glad to hear that Rip is doing well khall.

Apparently I'm a bit of a slacker when it comes to this thread but I actually have been riding just as regularly as usual with the exception of this past weekend that I was out of town for and Pallie and I were both off for 4 days. That's the longest either of us have had off since the holidays in December. Went out and rode last night and other than being a bit lazier and some "dramatics" which was really just being a lookie little giraffe, nothing actually bad, when a trailer came in to pick up a horse and a big tack cabinet. The horse was not as interesting but the cabinet HAD to be stared at. In any case I don't think I ever have to worry about her coming back bonkers after time off.

Lots of interesting discussion this go around too, much to think about. I had been considering that I might want to see about some lessons on a schoolmaster/upper level type horse sometime too so it's interesting that it came up here too. I was hoping it would allow me to get a better feel of certain things as well as just being nice to ride different horses sometimes.

As far as progress I really feel we've made some good steps in the right direction recently. There's good and bad but overall I'm happy with the changes that are occurring. The frustrating things are that she seems to become dull really quickly and easily so if I'm not on top of things, not quick enough or don't insist on the correct responses then she will happily revert to pokey plodding. It's pretty tiring so apparently I need to be in better shape. The stretching and light exercise I've been doing is not cutting it. I also think that because she's so wide it's harder for me to be clear with my leg aids but if I could shrink my legs a little that could help. The good is that pretty much every ride these days ends on a good forward note it's just the amount of time that it takes to get there needs to be shorter. She's much much softer and her way of carrying herself is changing since I started working to put a stop to the fiddling with my hands and just focus on having a nice steady contact and going forward. What I found most interesting about that is that when I first started with her if I picked up the reins she backed off a lot and it would also feel like an argument and resistance but these days when I pick up the reins she's just soft. She does want to hollow quite a lot on the left rein so we're working on improving that and as always I'm still working on improving my position.


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