September and October Goals and Progress

A forum for discussion of training in dressage
Hot4Spots
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Hot4Spots » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:11 pm

And darn it, he scars easily. Thin skin, fine coat (half Arab). He's got a major (though surface) scars on his right hind leg and on his front right pastern from running through a fence as a weanling/yearling when chased by dogs. When he was at the colt starter's place as a 3 year old, he fell while playing with his buddies and scarred both knees. Hah. Maybe this big scrape will erase THOSE scars. :0( I'm having flashes of "Black Beauty" where they either got rid of him or potential purchasers rejected him because of his scarred knees.......??

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Red's Mom » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:26 pm

Hi, I am new to the DDBB, but an old UDBB member. I now have a very sweet willing 4 yr old TB gelding. He is so much easier to deal with than the horse I had before. You may remember him as Dutch. He is living in Texas now with someone else. My goal with my new guy, Red is to have fun, ride 4 times a week. By the end of October, I would like to be able to ride a well done Intro 3 test. In some ways, we are beyond this level, but in other ways we are not.

I have owned Red since last April and I have been working on improving gaits, especially canter, transitions between gaits, riding forward with a steady tempo, good geometry and proper bend. I am also working on turning him into a good trail horse. I would appreciate any ideas for exercises.

I would love to post photos and video, but I can't figure out how to do so. When I am able to post photos, keep in mind that myself or my horse are not Olympians, and I would like positive critic and suggestions for how to improve.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Dresseur » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:34 pm

Welcome Red's Mom (and Red!). Under the full editor and preview button, you will find an attachments tab. You can post images inline there - but there is a smallish file size limit and you can only do 3 attachments. You can also post links to any online photosharing site like photobucket. In terms of video, youtube links are best - there are other ways, like sharing FB vids (with privacy set to public).

I think that you'll find that everyone is supportive and open here, it's a good group!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Sue B » Mon Oct 02, 2017 9:33 pm

Red's Mom, WELCOME!!!!!!!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Moutaineer » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:27 pm

Ugh, Hot4Spots. You really do seem to be having the most rotten luck with that horse! Some of them are just accident magnets, I know. I hope he will heal up cleanly and soundly! (And yes, "broken knees" were always a big deal in Victorian carriage horses. I think it was because it meant that they had fallen on Macadam roads, while going at speed, and were probably an indicator of significant internal damage at the time. And of course they were deemed unsightly on a black carriage horse--a bit like having your front bumper hanging off nowadays, I guess.)

Welcome, Red's Mom. Not many of us are likely Olympic contenders :) I'm certainly not--even when I'm not in rehab mode!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:57 pm

Flight wrote:Demi hope the new trainer is really good for you!
Hot4spots thats a long rehab, hoping yours and Mountaineers continue to be well.

Rosie, that's recent vid? I see lots of good HP? :) And he looks really nice and active in that vid. Like you say he normally is at home compared to that time at the lesson?

I had my first lesson back since my knee, I was thinking it will be a bit hopeless but weren't not far off from where we were. He did get me to ride him more rounder, which was just by asking for a bit more flexion/bend, add a bit of leg for impulsion and getting that give feeling through his neck and body. He became so light, it was just little pressures with my fingers to get it. I think being up he was getting too set in the neck.
Here's some vid of us mucking around at home (before lesson). We fell out of the arena a few times before I got them to fit in!
https://youtu.be/rBY7FdWZYwc


lovely changes

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Chisamba
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:15 pm

Khall, so glad that Rip is staying healthy.

CB congrats and well done on your bronze.

Hot4spots, sorry about the slip, ugh

Everyone else seems to be doing well, improving, on the up and up.

Kimba and Deneb are both doing well. I have found that when i start working on something more demanding, it does show up small adjustments that need to be made on the easier work. For example canter walk transitions showed up that Kimba was balancing on my hand too much in the down, and her hind end needed to be ridden more under, so more forward into the down. My half pass work has improved the ten meter circles and both Kimba and Deneb have improved their balance, and cadence.

We have not even tried flying changes in any way, but we are working on improved counter canter and simple change to counter canter. This offends Kimba's sense of order, she thinks one should not be expected to counter canter. I have not tried counter canter transitions with Deneb yet, we are doing shallow serpentine to introduce counter canter.

improved half pass has definitely improved the walk pirouettes, i think it is all related to balance. No other explanation why work in one gait would improve different work in another.

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Flight
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Flight » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:13 am

Congrats CBo6!!!!! Great photos too!!

Great that Rip is doing well Khall, did you work out what was wrong with Gaila?
Great with Laddie too Mountaineer. Not so good for you Hot4Spots - scary! Hope he heals up quickly for you.

Dresseur yay for Miro! That's a relief. Interesting report on Charm and the way you've all worked through the issues.

Abby, glad you can ride too, it is depressing when you can't do it and you are watching everyone else getting on with it.

Sue B sounds like yours are going well too. Snowing! We have finally got some Spring weather here, although we don't get that cold I was over the winter.
Welcome Red's Mum!! Definitely post some pics and vids :)

I've had a couple of people have a ride on Ding, one girl is an eventer and hasn't done a lot of dressage so I tried to give her a lesson. It's really hard trying to explain how to do things, riding is very much a lot about feel and timing so I struggled! But Ding was sooooo good, she loved him and even got a couple of nice flying changes! Another woman gets a bit nervous on her own horse, so we did a swap and within 5 mins she was cantering around on Ding smiling and laughing! She said she hasn't cantered like that for 2 years! She also managed a flying change :) I have to say I was quite proud of my little horse.

I had a working equitation training day on the weekend. Knee was a bit unhappy with a full day riding and walking about, but it's hard to know if pushing it a bit will strengthen it or damage it? I figure if it's not really painful or swollen, just a bit stiff it should be fine......
Anyway, one of the clubs members is a professional photographer and gets the best pics of everyone! Had to share this one!
Image

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby piedmontfields » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:32 pm

That is a wonderful photo, Flight!

I, too, get very happy when my horse works well for others to give feel and confidence. Given my wrist lay-up (I could ride, but am being patient for now!), I have the fun of getting reports from my working student helper. I have one of those horses that looks super easy and polite to ride, but once in the saddle people realize, hey, this mare is quite reactive and sensitive, and has a lot of specific buttons! But the student is figuring that out and having fun. I am grateful to have a skilled rider (eventer) with a good seat and open mind available to help!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby DJR » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:39 pm

Flight - LOVE the picture!!

piedmontfields - I hear you about a horse seeming easy to ride but having many specific buttons. My friend's horse is like that, and I think Panache *may* get a bit like that as he gets more fit. The explosiveness he showed at the show last Sunday made me go "hmmm" as I had, in my mind, come to think of him as an easy gelding to ride. I think he's not so much complex as tricky if he gets revved up. If he's not revved up, he's pretty straightforward.

chisamba - I was interested in your finding that the improved HP resulted in improved pirouette work. For Panache, who is just beginning his travers & working walk pir work, it's the opposite. He seems to find travers on the circle easier than in a straight line, and consequently his working walk pir and TOH is helping his understanding of travers (and HP). Jet was the exact opposite.

Welcome Red's mom (love that username, btw!) - we're mostly if not all in the same boat re: not Olympic contenders, but just devotd to our discipline and looking for ways to improve. Glad to have you here!
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby piedmontfields » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:25 pm

Welcome to Red's Mom! Since I am on lay-up but wanting to keep my horse active, I am doing a lot of hiking (around a 200 acre farm) with her these days. I am a big believer in hiking with the horse to teaching them about the great outdoors + listening to me when far from the barn (aka prep for solo hacking). I do use a rope halter and carry a dressage whip---in case I need to make a point. At this point, Emi is like a giant white dog walking at heel, but for safety I like having back-up!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:34 pm

Piedmontfields, I used to pony my young horses for miles, getting them used to leaving the barn, varied paths, things to see. It's great be it in hand or from another horse

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby piedmontfields » Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:53 pm

Chisamba wrote:Piedmontfields, I used to pony my young horses for miles, getting them used to leaving the barn, varied paths, things to see. It's great be it in hand or from another horse


A young horse trainer I know starts all of her horses with both in-hand and ponying on the trails. Every horse she produces is an awesome trail horse + whatever else they grow up to be. I'm a believer in the method!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Hot4Spots » Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:22 pm

Well, shoot. Maybe I'm borrowing trouble, since I'm still at work and haven't been to the barn yet today. Had resident trainer (not my trainer, but a nice gal) ice his knees today. She says there's more swelling, but he doesn't seem distressed. Talked to vet, she said, ride him, keep him moving, 1 gr. bute....but call me if the swelling increases, since that might indicate a need for antibiotics (possible cellulitis if that happens). Now I am going to be worring about THAT 24/7. *sigh*

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:31 am

When horses i have had the care of had Cellulitis is usually exceptionally painful, the horse will jerk away if touched, Its quite apparent, so if he seems his normal self, just big in the knee area, he is probably still okay. Hope it all heals well.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Red's Mom » Wed Oct 04, 2017 3:45 am

http://s347.photobucket.com/user/FleetDreams/library/
These are from last May. I got Red in April. He had just turned 4.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Moutaineer » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:18 am

You both look great, Red's Mom. He's a handsome guy and you have a lovely solid position on him.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Oct 04, 2017 1:13 pm

Fingers crossed, Hots4Spots!

p.s. I bought my mare with a horrible scar across one knee (probably happened during her 4 "wild" years of doing nothing in a field). I x-rayed it well, found nothing and brought her home.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Hot4Spots » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:22 pm

Well both knees and part of lower left leg filled, but I rode him for 35 mins, mostly walk, three sets of four long sides of the arena at trot. You better believe I did NOT let him stretch his head/neck down when riding down the driveway!! He seemed fine and swelling much reduced after ride, though still present. Cold hosed knee for 15 minutes. Trainer will ice him again today, and then we'll just go from there (must buy a new tube of Desitin, using it up very quickly)

Red's Mom - Pretty boy. I do like a chestnut with chrome!
Last edited by Hot4Spots on Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Abby Kogler » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:54 pm

Reds Mom, he is beeyouteeful!! And you look really happy. Nice!

Hotty, Hope he continues to do well.

Catching up, catching up, catching up. Seems like there is mess everywhere but I am making progress. I am have another nice shed put up next Monday yay and that will be another place that I CAN PUT THINGS AWAY. I cant wait.

I have a rehab client coming in today which should prove interesting. Hes got lots of issues plus PSSM so we will peel the layers.

Riding wise I have ridden every day except yesterday. I am still working bareback as that really strengthens my tummy and lower back...trotting bareback is a good test of the lower back, pelvis, asymmetry. I can do everything trotting bareback (SI, traver, renvers) but I cant do it in a saddle posting very well yet. I know it will come and I have to say I am just happy being able to be out there. The evenings are so beautiful and its just a great feeling to feel like life is getting back to 'normal'.

Carry on all, I really love reading the updates and seeing everyone's photos.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Hot4Spots » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:50 pm

Abby, I used to ride my old horse, Erik, bareback all the time. While he had sharkfin withers, he also had nice shoulders and a round back, so he was pretty comfy. I didn't have any health issues, but I did find I did a lot of things -especially lateral work - better bareback. He was also completely trustworthy, the type who would shift over and "catch" you if you became unbalanced. Sadly, I don't feel I can trust present guy bareback. He's just too hyper-alert and inclined to spin/run first and ask questions later. He's much better now than he used to be, but if it weren't for that characteristic of his, I wouldn't be rehabbing a suspensory injury. :0(

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby DJR » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:12 pm

Yay, I was selected for the Stephen Clarke clinic the weekend after next. So excited! I'm going with Jet.
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Imperini » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:30 pm

Hooray for those of you with good soundness/rehabbing news and hope your boy's knees heal quickly and easily Hot4Spots.

Lovely pics everyone, it's so fun seeing everyone!

Looking forward to hearing your clinic report DJR :D

I've been extremely pleased with pretty much all of my recent rides and I think I may have finally put together the "getting Paloma to pay attention and move when asked" puzzle. For her I've been making sure that we just cruise around a big open field often which she seems to enjoy (no nearby trails so it's the best I can do without going off property). For me I started incorporating more no stirrup work which helped get me into the saddle instead of just on it if that makes sense and in return that seems to have given me much better control of my leg along with a better feel. Which then of course helps with "getting Paloma to pay attention and move when asked." Funny how these things all go together like that.

While I've had my moments of frustration I'm finding myself so grateful for Pal. She makes me think and work for everything but I also feel like I've learned more about my riding and working with a horse in general (as in building a partnership) than I ever have in all the years before and I know this is just the beginning.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:37 pm

DJR - how exciting, can't wait to hear all about it!

Imperini, glad you're having such a great time with Pal. It sounds like you and she are a wonderful match. :)

I took Annabelle to the haul-in arena last night and after burning off just a bit of nervous energy on the lunge line, she settled right down and was a star. The arenas there are quite a bit bigger than at home, so I took advantage and did some big canters each way. The right lead is pretty tough for her, and she's been doing a little hop on the lunge to get into it. She did this under saddle and it was the most polite little crowhop I've ever felt. She is so cute that way! We did a little head to the wall LY as well, since we don't have good walls at home. Then we went to a smaller outdoor arena to walk and cool off, and other than looking at a couple things, she was fantastic and never spooked. Planning to get up there again next week to do some more canter sets, as she seems to have lost enough fitness from her time on the injured list that cantering in the smaller arena at home is too hard under saddle right now.

I entered her in two Intro tests at a league dressage/event derby weekend after next, so it was nice to see her doing so well off property. Now she just needs to stay in one piece for the next ten days!
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:55 pm

Sending jingles to all that need it, and it's great to hear about everyone's progress!
I am showing sunday, a very small show, and going between apathy and nervous. I am so fortunate to have friends to go with me, and I think did a much better job selecting tests that will allow me to show him at his best- the dirty fuzzy fall horse that he is :) oh well, I'll have to put away my Type A-ness....LOL

Training is going great, I can tell I am getting a much better response to my seat, including L/R shaping effects of the seat aids (both inside and outside).

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:38 am

Hope you have a great show experience, Rye. I think when you are confident about your training (approach and the work you've put it), you can really lean on that foundation in a show setting.

As the person to a very pale grey mare, I hear you on the simple showing challenge of showing up not brown!! :lol: :D

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby kande50 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:48 pm

piedmontfields wrote:
As the person to a very pale grey mare, I hear you on the simple showing challenge of showing up not brown!! :lol: :D


:-D :D :D

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:18 pm

piedmontfields wrote:Hope you have a great show experience, Rye. I think when you are confident about your training (approach and the work you've put it), you can really lean on that foundation in a show setting.

As the person to a very pale grey mare, I hear you on the simple showing challenge of showing up not brown!! :lol: :D


Its been raining....ugh! I'm so glad it's not a formal setting. Cream and brown anyone?

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:02 am

Ryeissa wrote:
piedmontfields wrote:Hope you have a great show experience, Rye. I think when you are confident about your training (approach and the work you've put it), you can really lean on that foundation in a show setting.

As the person to a very pale grey mare, I hear you on the simple showing challenge of showing up not brown!! :lol: :D


Its been raining....ugh! I'm so glad it's not a formal setting. Cream and brown anyone?


Ok, by some miracle he cleaned up well....and we won all our classes! horray! he was SO GOOD!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby DJR » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:11 am

Well done, Rye!! Any photos? That's awesome. :D
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Red's Mom » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:09 am

I took Red over to the local stable last Thursday night for a group lesson for the first time. There were 3 other horses and riders. They were all on school horses. On the way over(10 min trail ride) Red spooked when we were almost to the arena. Not sure why he spooked, I think there was a squirrel on the hill. We got there about 20 minutes early to walk around. When the other horses were on their way over to the arena, he spooked again. After that, he settled and we did fine in the lesson. I did not stay for the entire hour. The lesson started at 6:15 pm. I left at 6:40 pm. I intentionally left early because I didn't want to ride in the dark, and also I figured for the first time, I could skip the canter portion of the lesson. However, I did ride him for at least 20 minutes in my arena at home before I rode over for the lesson.

We worked on counter bend on a 20m circle, back to regular bend on both sides for most of the lesson, then we worked on slowing the trot for half the circle, then quickening the trot for the other half, and counting how many steps it took for both.

Red is really easy going, and I was surprised that he spooked at all. I expected him to be a bit looky, but these were light in front, partial spin, head tossing spooks. I raised my voice at him, and shortened my reins and got reprimanded by the instructor.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby cb06 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:33 pm

Congratulations!...and yes, by all means, pics!

Ryeissa wrote:
Ryeissa wrote:
piedmontfields wrote:Hope you have a great show experience, Rye. I think when you are confident about your training (approach and the work you've put it), you can really lean on that foundation in a show setting.

As the person to a very pale grey mare, I hear you on the simple showing challenge of showing up not brown!! :lol: :D


Its been raining....ugh! I'm so glad it's not a formal setting. Cream and brown anyone?


Ok, by some miracle he cleaned up well....and we won all our classes! horray! he was SO GOOD!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Dresseur » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:56 pm

Congrats Ryeissa!! Red, it's so nice that you can trail ride over to your lessons. It's so good for warming up (even if he found things to spook at lol).

I had a very interesting series of lessons this weekend. First and foremost, the changes are finally, FINALLY getting secure enough that for the first time, I was able to experiment a bit with my position and how I was riding the changes in the 3s. I'm also able to get 2s pretty reliably at this point and I'm really feeling her pushing against my leg and am correcting it - which means the changes are straight and I'm not swinging her head/neck around and I'm not twisting all over the place. I get down on myself for not feeling the issue before, but, for whatever reason, I was not ready to feel it before even though intellectually, it made sense.

The other very fun part is that I'm starting to work on some of the transitions for GP. I can do all of the individual movements - but the transitions are the hard part. So, for instance, I can do a canter transition from walk or trot or even halt, but a canter transition from passage???? Or a transition from extended trot to passage???? Yikes! So, we're working through the specifics on what the rider has to do to create these different balances and to indicate what gait. Gala, as Andrea's personal GP horse (having been trained to GP by her, and basically being ridden exclusively by her for years) expects very specific aids. So for instance, in the passage, the position is ramrod straight and a bit firm - shoulders down and pressed back, deep leg, hip pressed toward the pommel (that forward intent that I've talked about before). To transition to piaffe from that, the back softens, and you give subtle leg aids bring the hinds further under and increase activity. To trot out of passage, same thing, you soften your back but without leg aids and give a bit forward with the hands. On Gala, the canter aid is basically to push forward with the inside hip a bit with a firm back. So, I naturally thought that I would go from passage (firm back) to canter (firm back) and it would just work. Instead I just got a very, very stuck passage. So, what I have to do is passage, half halt and soften my back, half halt, and give the canter aid. Mind blown!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby DJR » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:29 pm

Dresseur, that's awesome! I can just picture (and almost feel) it by your description. I found it interesting & helpful to read what you wrote because I'm at a more basic level regarding all of this. I'm schooling 3rd/4th level and have only recently realized how much I was doing in the saddle to try to get Jet to hear my aids. As my instructor says, "as much as necessary, but as little as needed".

My aha moment was on my more novice horse when I was asking for walk-canter. My instructor asked me to do it again, but to sit incredibly quietly this time. I suddenly realized how much I was lurching (that may be too strong a word), and how little he actually needed to understand the aid. I was duped into the fact that I've trained him since he was backed, and so I still think he's a baby and needs way more hints at what I'm asking. Anyway, when I just sat still and asked with minimal & correct aids, wow. He not only did it, but I felt his back so much more come up and into the canter!

This isn't exactly what you're saying, Dresseur, as your post is about more of the nuances of aids & transitions within/between gaits. But for me it starts with the basics I think. It's the same with Jet. Yesterday I tried doing the least possible to ask for his newly found flying changes, and he was so much straighter and more on point. Wow, felt so good!

I envy those who can sit on a GP horse and feel confirmed upper level movements. I've never sat on a proper passage or piaffe, for example. I think I may need to look around to take lessons on that sort of horse to help me as I continue to move up with my horses.

Love all of this. It's these aha moments and these "wow" moments that keep me coming back!

Red - I think it's fabulous that you can hack over for a lesson. And, I hear ya about the spooks. My "steady eddy" throws that in once in awhile and it shocks me (on top of the mini-adrenalin rush that spooks bring). I guess Red has lots in the tank! LOL
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Dresseur » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:56 pm

DJR, that's one of the things that I love about my mentor's way of teaching. It is ALL about basics - no matter what level horse I am sitting on. It could be a very green 4 year old or Gala and the questions I need to ask myself are still the same. Is the horse straight (even in bending :lol:), is the horse responding to my aids (at whatever level they can), and do I have enough energy coming up from behind so that no one is hanging on the bridle? The thing that changes horse to horse is how nuanced can I get and what is the individual feel of each horse.

So, to break it down a bit, a green horse will not understand leg the way Gala does - but whether I ask for a leg yield or a steep half pass - it still boils down to whether or not the horse moved off my leg. The green horses are also more black and white: Leg will mean go or move over. To Gala, leg can mean move sideways, put your haunches in, bend around my leg, go forward, energize, come more under. Green vs GP also means aids become more or less layered. You have to be clear no matter what - BUT, I can't firm my back up and expect the green horse to understand what that means, but they will understand a firm swing of the hip in posting trot or a leg aid backed up with the whip. I also find that you feel balance shifts in a huge way. It's EASY to tell if a green horse fell onto the forehand, it's not so easy to tell when Gala comes down in the shoulder a very slight bit until I ask for something and nothing happens. So, I can practice feel even on the green or less gifted horses and apply it to Gala.

Riding the continuum is really, really expanding my mind.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby khall » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:27 pm

Dresseur, It is interesting the difference in the aids you use for Gala and what I have learned and done in the past. I have had the pleasure (sometimes embarrassment!) of riding 3 different GP trained (2 shown GP one had all the elements but never shown to GP) horses and have been able to take what I learned from them and apply to my own horses, even though mine are not GP!

The horses that I rode for passage it was closing of the thigh and knee for passage. One particular gelding had an incredible passage and there was a timing of the aids to get the most out of him. Close thigh, release along with a slight up half halt on the bridle. Could do it in double or snaffle mattered not to him. Soften the thigh for extensions. For piaffe it is alternate lower leg aid, slight calf, no thigh.

In starting passage, you ride medium on 20 m circle and half halt with thigh for passage. Use the energy and scope from medium and bring it into the passage.

DJR it is very helpful to ride horses trained higher than what you have ridden. Sometimes can be very humbling as well! One GP horse I rode, a Han stallion, had the roughest trot for me to try to sit. When I would try to sit I would close my upper thigh too much and get passage. I could easily ride passage to medium trot but for the life of me could not ride collected trot! Canter was no issue.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Rosie B » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:52 pm

Rye - congratulations! It must feel so validating to have your hard work pay off. What level did you end up doing? Were you happy with your scores? :)

Dresseur - thank-you for letting us live vicariously through you. It's always a pleasure.

Red's mom - what would the instructor have had you do? Were you unnerved by the spooks at all?

Bliss and I are carrying on. He's doing well. We have a clinic next weekend with the lady we cliniced with in May. I am very excited for that. :)

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Dresseur » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:30 pm

Khall, I think that there are probably more similarities than what it seems. Closing the thigh absolutely is part of my seat aids on Gala - I should have spelled that out lol. But, you can't JUST close thigh on her - the tone to the back muscles is a cue to her as well. If I just close my thigh - she will halt. But, close the thigh, and firm up my back and press forward (intent - not literally lean forward), hh/release - and she passages. And absolutely the timing of the upward hh are key. Andrea told me that for the first time, I'm starting to have Gala a bit more in the shape that she rides G in... a bit more open up front, and a lot of that has to do with me refining the timing of the aids. For piaffe, soft back, soft thigh, but leg aids together - you can't alternate on her - that will cause swinging since to her, if you move one leg against her, that means for her to move her haunches - also why you cannot cue changes with your legs - it's all from the hip - which is why her changes are so straight when she doesn't have an idiot on board lol.

I also find it incredibly fascinating that because she is built a bit downhill, and a bit long in the back, when she is uncomfortable, or moves me around in the trot - it means she is not connected back to front, or being a bit sloppy behind. It's a very distinct feel. But, because of the way that she's build, I have a hell of a time with the extended trot to passage transition because if she gets down in the shoulder or out behind at all - you have zero chance of hh that and bringing the hind legs under for a respectable passage.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby khall » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:51 pm

Just going through some thoughts more about this highly collected work. I am doing some of this with Rip, not to GP level, but soft versions of this. Was playing with piaffe both US and in hand, Saturday when I rode him. Have to approach him a bit differently than others I have ridden and/or trained piaffe with because of his neck conformation (comes out low). I have to do upward hh on him in piaffe to keep him up and open.

Yes to firming back but on the horses I have ridden it is not held firm all the time in passage but used in the rhythm of the aids. Does not mean you go sloppy and lose our own self carriage but definite timing of it. Also not really having to press forward with pelvis (not sure I like that picture anyway, it is the big thing that bothers me with your position, so close to pommel) horses carried their own motivation for forward movement. I was just refining that movement into higher collected work. The one with the best passage (really he had a spectacular passage, funny enough his natural trot with out training was rather shuffley) was trained in passage using trot polls to show him the mechanics of the gait and to build the fitness and strength for the passage. On a good moving horse with good to great mediums, you can use that scope and power to hh back to passage. My OTTB g was this way and with ease would medium on circle, hh to passage. He was one powerful big scopey mover.

For piaffe, when using alternate leg aids, both legs are back one holding lightly one applying aid so you do not get the swinging. The reason I use alternate legs aids to to influence the hind legs a bit more since when applying the aid as the leg starts to come off the ground is when you can add in more energy. It just really depends on the horse with this though and some do just fine with both legs applied. Both legs need to be slightly back though, not one forward and one back like with lateral aids. So there is a distinction there.

For passage to canter, to me this is where the leg aid can help get cleaner transitions. I too normally just use a hip for canter aid but it is in conjunction with inside leg forward and outside leg back. So the horse understands the leg placement for canter. I have been using soft passage to canter for Rip to get more engagement in the canter. This is where I just use the leg aid for canter so I do not have to move too much in my seat position in the soft passage. So here go from legs together to inside leg forward and outside leg back. Has worked like a charm with Rip.

Glad all are rocking along, congrats Rye with Riot! Welcome Red's mom (I remember you with Dutch on UDBB) nothing like a good TB!

Trying to get a good bit of work in here. Dang tropical systems keep coming through, Nate had a short visit and brought much needed rain but also brought the heat and humidity (and gnats) back after nice last week:( Supposed to be 90 and dew points in the 70's some this week. Hard on my getting fuzzy horses.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby DJR » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:59 pm

How does one use trot poles to train passage?
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby khall » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:26 pm

DJR you put the poles closer together, just a few initially, hh going into the poles applying the passage aid (thigh, hh, upward lift of rein) to establish the aid and allow the poles to elevate the horse's way of going. The trainer eventually would have 15 or so set up in a row once the horse got strong enough. Deep grass will also give you that effect or trotting in water. Key to it is not over doing the work.

This was on a horse with not the most natural of gaits. He had so much heart and try though that he made it to GP. Was pulled out of a bucking string from a rodeo as a 4 yr old and trained to FEI successfully. Seriously fun horse as long as he did not throw those bucks in! I had him do so going from one corner to the other across the diagonal bucking with me thinking sit back!!!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Flight » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:21 pm

Interesting discussion with the higher movements as Ive started them with mine, but very early days. The aids my instructor is trying to get me to do (I'm pretty unco!) are similar to how you describe Khall.

I had my first dressage comp back since my knee, and really I haven't had that much time off. He was good in the warm up, but the second we go in to do our test he just dies! I'm always up against this problem and then I work really hard to keep him going and exhausted by the time I've made it up the centre line! He had no med/ext paces and I was so disappointed! I rode like crap.
I asked my instructor about what I'm doing to cause it and he thinks that when I go in to do the test I start sitting a lot "neater" and it essentially blocks him, especially as he isn't an active horse. I think I need to sit quiet and let him stop, then correct it. But it's turned into a vicious cycle that happens each comp. I've got some vid on youtube if anyone wants to see it let me know. It's not the best.
Some pics though, he is a good pony and always well behaved to take out.
dingyoung10 copy.jpg
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dingyoung5 copy.jpg (59.95 KiB) Viewed 25872 times

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:32 pm

Rosie B wrote:Rye - congratulations! It must feel so validating to have your hard work pay off. What level did you end up doing? Were you happy with your scores? :)


Yes, I like 70% :) I also did a course, Riot stayed with me and I hope to do more HJ stuff in time. He used to regress in his contact/get tense so this is huge.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Flight » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:34 am

Congrats Ryeissa!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Dresseur » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:29 am

Wow! That's so fantastic Rye!!!
Khall, interesting discussion, thank you! I will say, I'm not physically sitting forward in my saddles- if you look at pics, I'm in the "sweet spot", and not up on the pommel, but I'm also not letting myself fall back on the cantle. The only time I look not even in the saddle is when I'm in one that is too large for me, then you will see more saddle behind than in front. God, if I sat on the pommel I'd die at the end of a riding day lol!!!

I'm on my phone, will upload a pic later.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Red's Mom » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:08 pm

Twice now I have written posts that have disappeared! I don't like to write well enough to have to rewrite posts!
Congratulations to Ryeissa and Riot!
What the instructor said to do when Red spooked at the lesson was to not raise my voice, not haul on the reins, and to put him to work. All good advice. I don't recall yelling, but I did speak sternly, I may have shortened the reins or at least one of them, once he stopped, I asked for forward. It all happened pretty quick and this being from a horse that doesn't normally act this way.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Red's Mom » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:25 pm

I think I may have overwhelmed Red when I took him to the lesson last Thursday. Keep in mind that he turned 4 last April. I rode him at home, W/T/C both directions for about half an hour, then rode/walked the trail for 10 minutes to get to the stable, walked around the arena before the lesson for about 20 minutes, Then rode in lesson for about half an hour. I normally ride in total for about 45 minutes.

He is beginning to accept contact, but I don't make him be on contact the entire time I am riding. During the lesson he was expected to be on contact the entire time. We did have one short break during that time. In the last 10 minutes of the lesson, he began tossing his head to try taking the reins. Instructor wasn't happy. I think he was just done.

Instructor wants me to arrive at the lesson with a sweaty horse. She says he was not adequately warmed up upon arrival, and that is why he spooked. I am not sure I agree with this. the weather was cool, I rode at home, then walked for a good 20 minutes at least before he spooked in the arena. I think it is the fact that he is young, and the sights and sounds of the stable that he has been to only a few times are the reasons he spooked. Personally, I think he did very well under the circumstances.

Maybe we are not ready for the group lesson. I don't want to take away from the other riders who are on push button school horses. I got most of the attention from the instructor, albeit mostly negative! My husband was there watching. He says i should be happy, because i got a private lesson for the price of a group lesson.

My goal is to get him over to the busy stable, and have him ride around with other horses. I know he will get better. The other thing is that I have a short window of time to ride in these 6 o'clock lessons because we will be turning back the clocks soon, and it will be too dark to ride over.
The funny thing is, I have done the same thing before with other young horses. 20 years ago, I took evening classes at this same stable, and rode home in the dark even cantered home... I'm not that brave anymore.

Another problem I see is that many of the instructors at this stable do not have young horse experience and expect four year olds to behave like teenaged school horses.

Keeping horses at home has its drawbacks. One of them is that you really have no one knowledgable to talk with, so thanks for being here to read my ramblings!
Last edited by Red's Mom on Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby DJR » Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:50 pm

Red's mom - I agree with you. My 4 yr old needed lots of breaks during work, and I think that's just a good approach in general for most if not all youngsters. Their brains need a chance to catch up, and their developing bodies do, too. Riding him for 30 min in contact with only one short break is, to me, too much. Perhaps I'm too soft with my youngsters, but they generally only do 10 min of work before a good opportunity to stretch out and rest/think for a couple of minutes. I prefer to do that, or more rest breaks especially if they make a break-through on something, than to flood them. It sounds to me like Red did fine!

Meanwhile, I need to take my own advice with respect to my 12 yr old Third/Fourth level gelding, Jet. I got so upset with him during yesterday's ride because he gets strong & bargy on me sometimes. Lately, it takes the form of him blowing off hh's and ignoring the right rein in particular. Yesterday, I felt embarrassed after the ride because I took it personally & acted as though he "wanted" to do this. Once I'd gotten over myself, I realized that there is a reason for everything, and most likely his barginess is related to strength, anxiousness/anticipation re: flying changes, and the fact that even though he's experienced, this upper level work requires MORE intensity in how he uses his body and I need to be understanding of that with him. Easier said than done some days, especially when such a big horse ignores my aids!
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Red's Mom » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:13 pm

Deanna, are you the one with some draft crosses? I remember you from the UDBB. I have always been impressed with you and your horses. As I recall you also developed your own horse property.

I take a lot of stretch breaks, not only for him, but for me as well! Your horses are much further along than mine, but the same thing happens to me with Red. We are working on developing canter. He is stronger going left and can maintain a 20m circle pretty well, but going right, it feels like he gets bargy and strong, making it difficult for me to stay on the 20m circle. If I am at A or C circling, he practically runs into the fence when making a turn in the corner, he pops his left shoulder out and falls out of the circle. I find myself speaking to him in not so nice a tone and maybe too loud out of frustration. I need to work on being a quieter rider with my voice and more understanding that he just doesn't have the balance going right. Partly, I am afraid we are going to fall out of the arena when he gets so close to the fence! Any suggestions on helping develop canter? I have googled it and gotten some good things to do, but for those on the BB who've been there done that what worked for you?

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Dresseur » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:09 pm

Ahhh... the 4 year old pop and run and fall out of the arena routine :lol: :lol: :lol:

So, there are a few things... make sure you have enough energy to funnel him between the reins. If you are going at a funeral pace, it's easier for the green gumbies to wiggle away from you. Then, the young ones don't understand bending around the leg like the schooled horses do. So, make sure he's following the inside rein - when you indicate with the inside rein (a bit of an opening rein), he should follow. If he doesn't - DO NOT hold the rein, that gives him something to pull back against. Keep the inside rein lively and inviting. If he is still popping the shoulder, think counter bend and make your outside leg and rein a bit of a wall so that he can't go through it. If he's STILL popping through, hold your whip on the outside hand and either touch him on the shoulder, or sometimes I just swing the whip forward so that the horse moves away from it.

Hope that helps! Do know that it's totally normal for green horses to have steering issues like that.


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