September and October Goals and Progress

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Ponichiwa
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Ponichiwa » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:19 pm

I haven't posted in a while. I've been in a funk for quite some time with regards to balancing riding against the nonstop demands of work, working out/dieting, family... none of this is unique to me. You all get it, I'm sure.

I'm at the point in my career where the decisions I make now have massive impacts on where I end up in 30 years. Stay late or go home and ride? I feel like I have to choose to stay late and finish whatever because if I don't, there's certainly someone else who will and I'll be left behind. If I "opt out" of the competitive stream now, that means a potential loss of a scary amount of money over the rest of my career. Truly scary. And the worst thing about it is there isn't a single large decision at play here (i.e. take this job vs. that one)-- it's just a bunch of little ones that stack up (volunteer for that project, stay late this night, etc.).

But I keep looking at for-sale ads for horses, ostensibly for "my next prospect" even though I know I don't actually have the time to keep my one horse in consistent enough work to go up the levels. So over the holidays I'm going to do some serious thinking about my ambitions in both the career space and in horses.

I have had some lovely rides this month. None of them have been heavy in the training space. My barn is doing a holiday drill team performance during our holiday party, and riding around in a group atmosphere has really helped Kiwi with some of the reactivity issues we've had (as well as helping me loosen up and stop taking my riding too terribly seriously).

Sigh. You know?

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Sue B » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:10 pm

She was very looky and tense to start but by the end of the ride she was completely focused on me and I could comfortably sit what was actually a much more forward trot than she usually offers. This also tells me that if I can't comfortably sit her trot even when she's moving out well then it's likely I don't really have her working properly.


Impirini, that's it exactly!!! Now you know what it is you're looking for. :) :)

Ponichiwa, btdt, have the t-shirt to prove it. The end result of my journey was that I lost my competitive fire but gained a deeper love and understanding of dressage. I also discovered that I am quite happy being a rural veterinarian (used to aspire to be a criticalist/emergency specialist) because I get to deal with all kinds of crazy things that stretch my brain and skills in ways I never thought possible. Thirdly, I became a mom 15 years ago to a boy who has no interest in riding; which has become a major diverter of my limited available riding time and the best, most fun thing ever! Bottom line is that I changed my riding/training goals to better fit my life track and thereby eliminated one source of stress. My 2 horses live out 24/7 on 12 acres of hilly pasture where they keep a certain level of fitness and where they are available to me at a moment's notice. My now 6 year old is still at Intro level and my 12 year old is still waiting to have flying changes installed. Two years of financial and time limitations really slowed my training goals. OTOH, both horses are happy and healthy and super fun to ride. Once I get fc's on Rudy, he will rock 3rd lvl because I've spent so much time at 2nd lvl, and once I start showing Tio, he'll do just fine because he hasn't been rushed through the basics. Meanwhile, folks here on this board keep me inspired to improve my riding every ride and give me hope that one day, I 'll get back out there and show. Keep doing the fun stuff with your pony and one day you'll look up and realize the funk has lifted. Hugs to you in the mean time.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Gwen » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:23 pm

Chisamba wrote:Gwen, I used to hunter pace with a lay who had an Icelandic. He was super fun out on trails.

Some horses do not enjoy trails and never will. Trying to enjoy yourself on trails while riding horse that prefers the safety of a sandbox, can be unpleasant. One thing most trail riders Icelandic riders and endurance riders do is give their trust to the horse. It's opposite of dressage which is micromanagement.


Thanks Chisamba - Yes, my friend who I trail ride with says her first horse is like Callie - even now at 17 he worries and worries, he used to be terrible on the trails. After years of work and exposure he doesn’t spook as obviously anymore (I’ve ridden him, it’s more of a subtle sudden back drop and a step), and looks dead quiet (as Callie does - she looks like a 1 but feels like she can drop and spin at any moment). But he’s not happy on them.

I’m finding Callie needs way more reassurance than I expect her to, maybe because she seems so generally self contained and uninterested in outside input? But she relaxes most when on a totally loose rein with near constant pats on the neck. When she’s really tense gentle pats on both sides of the neck at the same time are most effective. But if I go much more than a few minutes without a pat and reminding her what a good girl I think she is, the tension starts building up. This makes me think that she probably needs a LOT higher rate of reward when training too.

On the plus side her trot work feels good. Stronger, better balanced, more confident, so that’s promising. She can also see deer and continue to walk on a loose rein, which is a big deal.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Dresseur » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:25 pm

Miro is still doing well, we're up to 10 mins walk each side and 8 long side trots. And today, I got on and walked him two large circles!!!!!!!! It felt like heaven being back up there, even though I'm very down and out with the flu. He's like a sofa right now, so weak in the back- we've got a long way to go. But IF he's sane, I can start doing some of the walking ridden, as well as some of the trot long sides.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby DJR » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:59 pm

I went to see how my 3-yr-old is doing at the trainer's place. I moved him there at the beginning of the month, and today was the day to back him for the first time. Finn had other plans, though, and got quite nervous feeling the weight in one stirrup when he took a couple of steps forward. He had a mini-explosion, but the trainer was able to work him through it and repeat the process until Finn felt relaxed again, which happened within 5 minutes. He ended on a great note with the same exercise finishing with success, so that's great.

Normally I start my own youngsters, but with my injuries this year (SI in May, then broken finger in July which is STILL not fully healed!) I elected to have him professionally started. I'm glad I made that choice! He'll be with the trainer until he has completed six weeks under saddle, then will have the winter off to be a horse & grow.
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby kande50 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:49 am

Ponichiwa wrote:But I keep looking at for-sale ads for horses, ostensibly for "my next prospect" even though I know I don't actually have the time to keep my one horse in consistent enough work to go up the levels. So over the holidays I'm going to do some serious thinking about my ambitions in both the career space and in horses.


My thinking on this issue now is that it probably doesn't really matter what we decide to put the most effort into, because both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I chose to forego the career so that I'd have at least some time to pursue hobbies, and that worked out well for me, but I think if I'd chosen to concentrate on a career I would have ended up equally content with that decision. Either way there's going to be a certain amount of frustration because there's never enough time and energy to do it all.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:18 pm

Gwen wrote: I’m finding Callie needs way more reassurance than I expect her to, maybe because she seems so generally self contained and uninterested in outside input? But she relaxes most when on a totally loose rein with near constant pats on the neck. ..She can also see deer and continue to walk on a loose rein, which is a big deal.


Gwen, I share these thoughts in an attempt to convey just how different we and our horses can be. I hack my mare alone all the time, over hill and dale (see other thread where we were doing hill work amidst 15+ deer). HOWEVER---I would say that she needs reassurance on a very regular basis. This can be verbal, or a neck touch--or a lot of leg. I can't tell you how many times I say "well done!" "I'm proud of you!" "What a brave mare!" "You can do it!" on our jaunts. I'm sure she gets neck touches every couple of minutes, if not more often. And I really don't mind providing her this support and encouragement--I like petting and talking to my horse :D . I accept that my mare is simply not a very brave horse---however she is an obedient horse and she trusts me. So we have a lovely time out and about.

I almost never ride on a long rein outside the ring. Well, that is not quite true, but I don't spend long periods of time on a long rein. I give her regular stretches and then connect her again. She is much more confident (and makes better choices) when "in hand." For those used to quieter, braver, more confident horses who will trundle along quite nicely on a long rein, this practice seems odd. But it works for us--and we are able to enjoy exploring the world together!

I hope Callie continues to improve and you find a satisfying path forward for all.
Last edited by piedmontfields on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:40 pm

Ponichiwa wrote: I have had some lovely rides this month. None of them have been heavy in the training space. My barn is doing a holiday drill team performance during our holiday party, and riding around in a group atmosphere has really helped Kiwi with some of the reactivity issues we've had (as well as helping me loosen up and stop taking my riding too terribly seriously).

Sigh. You know?


I do...I would love to do a drill team performance at our barn. I think it would be good for Emi, too.

I may write you directly on the job/career pressure... :D

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Flight » Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:33 am

I've got my soloshot3 now, who else was getting one?

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:38 pm

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby DJR » Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:31 pm

Ryeissa wrote:I hear ya all on the "juggling" ideas- for me my job is not out of control hours-wise, but I have health issues to deal with that I have to manage (makes riding hard sometimes) + my other commitments.


This is very timely because I'm struggling with this now, too. October is always a super-busy month for me work-wise, and this year is no different (perhaps busier!). I haven't ridden in 8 or 9 days now and it really affects me: feel depressed, almost desperate, yet there simply aren't enough hours in the day. Yesterday I *could* have ridden at least one horse, but I was exhausted so I fed the farm early and took it easy with my daughter (who is sick now with a bad cold, so she isn't riding either). I felt SO guilty because I "could have ridden", yet am realistic that I need to be gentle with myself & that rest is important.

It's so hard to juggle work & mom duties. And with the weather getting colder/blustery it doesn't inspire me to get out there after dark and ride!

But, the thought of not being where I want to be with the two horses is enough to get me back out there I think. Plus, I have a clinic this weekend so I need to get out and shake the cobwebs off them. Tomorrow. Today, i work 12 hrs so forget riding after that sort of a day.
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Abby Kogler » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:52 pm

Flight wrote:I've got my soloshot3 now, who else was getting one?


Youre kidding!!!! You got yours?!

I was an early buy...Maybe mine will come soon!

What do you think? Have you set it up?

I cant WAIT!!!!!!!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Gwen » Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:49 pm

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Beautiful trail ride today. Callie was relaxed and happy, but our trot work in the field ended in a massive bolt, easily the worst I’ve ever ridden. She completely lost her mind. No trigger - no cars, no deer, no wind, no sudden rustles or snaps, and we weren’t alone, my friend and her horse were standing in the middle of the field. We were tracking right and as usual she was heavy in the right rein, I was doing the usual inside leg, take and release of the inside rein, etc, but she couldn’t hold the bend and was twisting her head to avoid it. She broke into the canter, I asked her to come back to trot and then next thing I knew we were galloping for the barn. Managed to turn her with difficulty, I didn’t want to force a sharp turn as I wasn’t sure she would be able to stay on her feet. It took several circles before she slowed to a canter, and several more before I could get her to walk without trying to buck.

My hope is chilly fall day spirits, but while the reaction may have been exacerbated by the cold she’s been having funny moments like this in the past week and I’m suspicious that, particularly given the unevenness in the reins and unwillingness to bend, her neck is still bothering her.

On the plus side it was an experience that in previous years would have left me shaking for hours, but it had almost no emotional effect on me at all. I felt a bit sick in my stomach when I realized that she really, really, really wasn’t going to stop any time soon :lol: but once she stopped I was fine.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby DJR » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:13 pm

Gwen - well ridden! My heart was in my mouth reading your description. That's what my Fjord-x pony mare did in the spring and I ended up ditching (at the gallop) because I was so worried about her getting tangled up in the oncoming fence or hedge or gate (we were in my super-large outdoor arena at the time which is easily 200 ft from fence to fence). Scary as heck, and unlike you, I panicked because I COULD. NOT. STOP. HER. I've never, ever had that before in all of my decades riding, and I hope I never do in future!
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Gwen » Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:11 pm

It’s the worst, right DJR?? I remember that thread, it sounded awful.

I kept thinking “she’s going to listen to me in a second, really, any second now... hm. I take it back, I’m pretty sure she’s not going to listen to me after all!” :lol: Luckily we were in a big field and I didn’t have to be worried about a gate or hedge, so there was room for her to both go and then make a big wide turn when I realized I’d need to find the brakes another way.

I had to decide whether to turn right or left - she was on the right lead (if that’s what you call it in a gallop!), but that was also the direction of the barn so I thought if I turned her that way and couldn’t end up stopping or turning her at all we’d be doing that down the driveway which seemed like hands down the worst possible outcome. So I went left - probably best because she was on “counter gallop” so couldn’t motercycle as effectively. By the third circle, I think, she was somewhat interested in my input, and by the fourth or fifth my friend was talking to me as though it was over. :lol: It didn’t feel over! But I did then turn her into a right canter circle, which was fine except that she wanted to bunch up and buck instead of settle down into a trot or walk.

Honestly my biggest concern was that she was going to do some real damage to herself and come up dead lame! I don’t think I’ll know until tomorrow. Seemed fine when I put her away, but I suspect the effects won’t be fully felt until later.

She’s done this occasionally in the past, but never like this, only a few strides, or across the dressage arena or something. This was next level. I don’t really know what to do at this point, other than to not ride out alone in case something happens and I need someone to call 911, and to do our rehab work in the indoor from now on! :roll: I think I should probably talk to the vet again about whether we should try injecting the neck? Maybe I should see if I can get her to react similarly to bending or bringing her neck up in the indoor, and if I can’t maybe I chalk it up to fall weather? I’m going to be honest, while it’s something I feel capable of dealing with, it is not something i am *interested* in dealing with, you know? But I don’t have much of a choice, and don’t see any alternatives at the moment.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Red's Mom » Fri Oct 27, 2017 2:20 am

Hi Gwen, When I read about your horse bolting with you, my first thought was-what a naughty horse, then I thought it could possibly be from pain. You said she has a problem with her neck? What sort of problem? I had a mare that was diagnosed with arthritis in her neck. She would spook over something small, tweak her sore neck, than bolt from the pain. At least that is what I think was going on.

I had another horse that was just naughty, and found that if he bolted and bucked that sometimes he would be able to throw me. When he began trying this every time I rode, I sold him.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Flight » Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:50 am

Gwen, sorry I liked your post because I saw the photos and was all like "ahhh beautiful" but then kept reading, and I don't like the bolting! Glad you're ok.
Can you do some flexions with her at a halt until she's moving really nicely with no resistance? You have probably gone through all of that anyway. Scary stuff! I used to ride a bolting horse as a kid, I got used to it weirdly enough, but in hindsight my horse needed a bit more training!

The Soloshot3 -well I have had a few issues. I think for everyone that's waiting, hopefully a few bugs have been ironed out and when you do your first update it will all work fine.
Here is some vid though with the SS3. I'd started doing 4x changes and I sucked at the counting! Was hopeless. Today we nailed it!! Now, watching video, I can see that I'm going to have to be aware of controlling the canter between the changes too... gah! So much to do in dressage!

https://youtu.be/FR97-YG0O1w

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Gwen » Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:05 pm

Red’s Mom: we recently discovered mild neck arthritis between C6/C7, and she has reduced range of motion in hand to one side. It did not look serious enough to inject, but she’s had three shockwave therapies and the ROM didn’t improve, and I’m still getting unevenness in the reins. I’ve been doing carrot stretches before every ride, but it’s not making much of a difference. I suspect the cold mornings are aggravating it? She was very even and comfortable in the reins on Tuesday, but it was much warmer that day. Last two days have been chilly and I’ve noticed a difference in attitude (especially yesterday! :lol:) and rein weight.

I’ve noticed that when she spooks or gets quick and I ask her to come back with a quick take-release, it raises her neck and that’s when she gets more explosive, so I suspect it is related to the neck, rather than her getting upset at being asked to listen.

Flight: I liked the photos too! And the majority of the ride, other than the last five minutes!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Gwen » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:06 pm

Another trail ride today (with a buddy) she was a little worried but by the end was very relaxed, including watching and passing some deer without any trouble. I think we have to practice solo trail rides, to see if we can get to the same level of relaxation on her own, but i am concerned that I don’t have the temperament to do it well, to be honest.

I tried getting her to react badly in the indoor, and while she did not want to bend right, and was heavy, she didn’t react dangerously at all, so I suspect she was extra keyed up about outside. I am going to pursue more aggressive treatments though, and see if we can help her feel like she can use her neck normally.

Trail riding photo from this morning.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby khall » Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:50 pm

Gwen that was so scary to read! The bolting incident, agh! Be careful. Beautiful pictures though!

I am hoping to venture out on a trail ride next month with some like minded friends, both have nice calm horses so I am hoping Rip will be ok. I do not like riding the wild and wooly anymore and will get off and walk if I have to.
Tried to get video of Rip working piaffe/half steps to canter the other day but my friend who was operating my phone had trouble dang it. So wanted to share. Will try again at some point but right now my life is on the crazy train.

Something I ran across that you Gwen and I am sure others (Tsavo) might be interested in:
https://thehorsesback.com/c6-c7-malformation/

Tsavo was wondering if neck arthritis would explain the different lameness you have been having.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:06 pm

I had a horse that became very unreliable because she would lift her head in response to a start, and that would trigger neck pain, which would trigger bolting. She was retired. it would happen in pasture too. I hope the neck pain becomes stable.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Gwen » Fri Oct 27, 2017 7:56 pm

Thanks Khall, that was an interesting read! Good luck with the trail ride, and I hope to see your video soon.

Chisamba - this is my concern/suspicion as well. Going to talk to the vet next week, and am crossing my fingers that getting more aggressive with treatment will get her some relief.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Tsavo » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:34 pm

khall wrote:
Something I ran across that you Gwen and I am sure others (Tsavo) might be interested in:
https://thehorsesback.com/c6-c7-malformation/

Tsavo was wondering if neck arthritis would explain the different lameness you have been having.


That is a VERY interesting article! Thanks so much for posting it. I think there is some possibility of an association between malformation of C6 and(or) C7 and club foot formation. I am now considering offering my horse to the vet school after I lose him to investigate this since so little is actually known about clubfoot.

My horse was sound with a PD block so the issue is one or more of the following: "the heel bulbs, frog, bars, navicular bone and bursa, palmar aspect of the coffin bone and joint, and part of the second phalanx (short pastern bone)."

That lameness aside, I have long wondered what is up with my horse's neck. His neck cracks like people crack their knuckles when he brings his head to the side. I am not sure that indicates anything bad, though. In re nuchal ligament, I am focused on moving that a lot and making sure it is on the correct side and being able to flip it when I try to flip it by changing flexion alone. To the extent his nuchal ligament is "behaving", I think that doesn't rule out C6/C7 malformations.

What does tend to rule out malformations in his case are his complete willingness to square up and being very balanced in lateral work.

Speaking of squaring up, I have been doing an experiment with my horse while grazing. Since he has a club (RF), he will usually have that foot back and will sometimes skip the left ahead rather than step forward with the right. I wanted to see if that was habit and not physiology. I started treating and praising him when he stepped the club forward. Every time. I was silent when he stepped the other foot forward. I was going to start a thread where I would post the percentage of time spent with the club forward starting with a baseline. The experiment was so successful so quickly that I never got a baseline but would estimate the baseline as the club being back 80% or 90% of the time grazing. Now, he will graze with the club forward almost half the time just from the rewards for doing so. He will also do it facing downhill which puts more pressure on the leg. He will also graze with the feet at about the same position. Between that and the club forward, I think he only has the other foot forward about half the time which is now what I assume a non-clubfooted horse does.

My conclusion is that his grazing now is mostly habit and that I changed his habit in a very short time. If I stopped praising bring the club forward, he would probably go back to the baseline but I don't intend to stop praising him.
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Gwen » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:54 pm

Callie almost never squares up. She almost always stands with one front foot back and the hind leg on the same side forward. That bit definitely jumped out at me. She will halt square under saddle, but left to her own devices, she does not generally stand square.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Tsavo » Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:02 pm

Gwen wrote:Callie almost never squares up. She almost always stands with one front foot back and the hind leg on the same side forward. That bit definitely jumped out at me. She will halt square under saddle, but left to her own devices, she does not generally stand square.


Does she have a club?

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Gwen » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:11 am

Not as far as I know - doesn’t look it and I’ve never had a farrier or vet mention it.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Tsavo » Sat Oct 28, 2017 1:26 am

Is it always the same foot back or is it about half and half?

I have been assuming that normal horses stand 50-50 randomly but I wonder if that is correct or if they have habits about which foot is forward without dealing with a club.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Sat Oct 28, 2017 12:35 pm

Four days this week and today will make five. I'm on a roll! haha. I feel stronger in the saddle and am looking forward to my lesson on Monday.

Yesterday was very windy, 35 mph gusts. I decided it would be a good day to do double longe/in hand stuff and then just sit on her afterwards to remind my muscles, ligaments and tendons. The wind and cool weather brought out Rocky's Arabian side and she started off passaging. I loved watching her. She got a little carried away a couple of times but quickly settled down to some nice work.

With winter approaching, and having found a special trainer, I am considering putting Rocky into training...

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:09 pm

My first horse, Rye, had a club foot and diagnosed neck arthritis --it was inadvertantly found in a nuro exam, when she was very sick, but explains some issues...(It was in no way related to the neuro disease) ust wanted to mention it!

She had a lot of arthritis everywhere, so who knows... if they have in one area, they likely have it in more places. JMHO

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Tsavo » Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:33 pm

Ryeissa wrote:My first horse, Rye, had a club foot and diagnosed neck arthritis --it was inadvertantly found in a nuro exam, when she was very sick, but explains some issues...(It was in no way related to the neuro disease) ust wanted to mention it!

She had a lot of arthritis everywhere, so who knows... if they have in one area, they likely have it in more places. JMHO


How did they diagnose the neck arthritis?

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Moutaineer » Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:06 pm

It's pretty easy to diagnose with x rays.

However, if you x ray a bunch of asymptomatic horses, a lot of them will show up with some arthritis in their necks. Doesn't immediately mean anything sinister. A bit like kissing spines--diagnosis du jour.

Severe cases are usually pretty obviously neurological, like wobblers, or may show shoulder and front end lameness, depending on which nerves are being impinged on.

A lot of it is man-made in dressage horses, by crank and spank riding, or through breeding practices (there was a thread in the breeding section of COTH about neuro issues in dressage horses), so they may or may not not have a prevalence of arthritis anywhere else.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Tsavo » Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:58 pm

Thanks Mountaineer. I didn't know that stuff about the prevalence of "silent" neck arthritis.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:31 pm

While yesterday was intimidating to watch Rocky do this incredible passage on the double lounge, today, riding her, was soft and quiet, but the underlying power was still assured.

Yesterday I was worried about getting through the winter. Since I am investing in a trainer, I feel that I must keep Rocky working at the bare minimum of 4 times a week, with the optimum being 5 times a week, which includes trailering out for the weekly lesson. I know I overthink things...

Today, I think I can manage a weekly lesson while keeping her at home. I know having her i training with a GOOD trainer would advance her much faster and better than just hauling out for weekly lessons, but Rocky is like my child :oops: and its so hard to Imagine not having her in my back yard...

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:43 am

ETA: much better photos here. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 2183534752

Today a local riding club opened up their trail obstacle course with lots of extra halloween decorations and people in crazy costumes. The pics aren't very good because there were only certain spook free zones where I dared to take out my phone, but what a de-spooking opportunity! The grim reaper was driving a Fjord with a giant spider on his back, and there was a knight in shining armor, and a mini donk being walked around by Shrek. Susan (Kyrabee) stopped by and we took Annabelle through a few obstacles, including the elevated bridge, and the ditch underneath it in hand. Then I decided to saddle up and school in the arena, away from the obstacles. She ended up being quite explosive on the lunge line, but luckily there is a round pen that we were able to excuse ourselves to so she could burn off her nervous energy. Then back to the arena and did some rather tense W/T and a little attempt at canter. When she did a flying leap on the right lead, I decided she'd had enough, so we took a little hack on the dirt track surrounding the obstacle course and headed home.

Tomorrow will be our first lesson since the end of July (different instructor), and I'm planning to haul her out to a state park next week to toodle around.

I also signed up for the Ritters' extended courses (16 weeks, then 14 weeks), so that will be keeping me busy with studying when not in the saddle as well.
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Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby kande50 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 11:16 am

demi wrote:
Yesterday I was worried about getting through the winter. Since I am investing in a trainer, I feel that I must keep Rocky working at the bare minimum of 4 times a week, with the optimum being 5 times a week, which includes trailering out for the weekly lesson. I know I overthink things...


When I was trailering out for weekly lessons I too, found it motivating, because I knew another lesson was coming up and I wanted to work on what I'd done in the last one before the next one, so I was much more motivated to get out there and ride.

Eventually, as I realized that what I was doing in lessons wasn't for me I did move on to local schooling shows instead of lessons, and found that motivating too, but if I could have found a training situation that worked for me that would have been my preference.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Tsavo » Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:58 pm

Moutaineer wrote: A bit like kissing spines--diagnosis du jour.


I meant to comment on this earlier but had forgotten.

I think you are correct that diagnoses come and go to some extent. This is pretty good proof that little that is ascribed to these fad diagnoses is actually known.

Now that kissing spines is on the ascendancy, I would like to know what that constellation of symptoms was ascribed to prior to this new diagnosis. I think some skepticism is warranted about kissing spies because in humans, there are also radiographic findings that are incidental because there are no symptoms.

Things like club foot where we really are still at the stage of "just so" stories that are hopelessly hamstrung by chicken-egg problems just never seems to gain any traction. The article about the C6/C7 malformations seems like a potentially fruitful area to investigate as a trigger for clubfoot because the asymmetries are real, can be quantified, and therefore aren't subject to flights of fancy. While not escaping the chicken-egg dilemma, the shoulder does appear to be involved in clubfoot and is suggested to be the cause by some experienced people. Watching and feeling my horse over the years, that is the strongest hypothesis for etiology in my opinion.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:18 pm

Tsavo wrote:
Ryeissa wrote:My first horse, Rye, had a club foot and diagnosed neck arthritis --it was inadvertantly found in a nuro exam, when she was very sick, but explains some issues...(It was in no way related to the neuro disease) ust wanted to mention it!

She had a lot of arthritis everywhere, so who knows... if they have in one area, they likely have it in more places. JMHO


How did they diagnose the neck arthritis?


X rays at a major university.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Tsavo » Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:21 pm

So were there any symptoms? What are the symptoms of neck arthritis? Are they agreed to by all?

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Abby Kogler » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:31 pm

Tsavo wrote:So were there any symptoms? What are the symptoms of neck arthritis? Are they agreed to by all?


Do you know how to use the internet? Its not hard.

Symptoms can include: stiffness, difficulty bending, lifting, lowering the neck. Spookiness. Rearing, not going forward, problems with changes. Refusal to jump or bucking or bolting on landing. Lameness. Symptoms can be myriad. It can also cause neuro issues, some severe. Symptoms also depend on where exactly in the neck the issue arises.

Think of your own neck. If it hurts, is stiff, and painful, what effects might that have on almost anything you do?

Clinical observations can be made. Others can be nuclear scans, ultrasounds, xrays.

There is proof now of a congenital malformation in some horses C-6 C-7. How prevalent that is is not clear. I think there is a relationship between the way many people ride and train and cervical spine damage. I have not done a double blind peer reviewed study including thousands of horses of every breed from birth to death in every discipline.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby exvet » Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:58 pm

There is proof now of a congenital malformation in some horses C-6 C-7. How prevalent that is is not clear. I think there is a relationship between the way many people ride and train and cervical spine damage. I have not done a double blind peer reviewed study including thousands of horses of every breed from birth to death in every discipline.

Yes there is and I agree on the second part as well. I too haven't done a double blind peer reviewed study on this (though I've done a few on other medical subjects ;) ) and over time I think the majority of vets who work with sport horses would agree. As you know studies take time and money and designing a study of this sort would be rather, well daunting. A retrospective study with some strict requirements would help get us there but there would still be some question of causal analysis.

In any event, I haven't really participated in any of these threads with much substance because of where I've been with my riding and work. I empathize with who are struggling with the juggling. I've been fortunate in being able to use modern technology to keep working around the clock and still get my riding in at least what I deem to be at a bare minimum.

Today I rode both of my guys and have to say I appreciate what dressage does for these guys so much. The Mustang gave me about as good of a right lead canter as almost any horse I've ridden. His canter both directions was balanced, properly cadenced and forward and he gave me his back!!! It was FUN! We still are working on the concept of straight and today I was able to insist on straight and forward, really forward. We're working on tempo and forward without running. He's coming along and I'm anxious to get him back out on the trail on a far more regular basis. My new house will hopefully be done next month. It's next to a huge preserve with endless trails that I can just ride out my backyard to so very soon, I'll have a chance to get back to my tried and true routine for conditioning. It's fun to see this guy blossom and realize that he's able to use his body in new ways. His play during turnout is reflecting his new found strength and coordination too.

Junior is coming along very nicely. He can be a snot at times but all-in-all he's progressing very well. He's starting to understand trotting forward into the hand and he's just hovering around reaching and seeking for the bit consistently. He's building his strength and stamina with someone on board. I long lined him the other evening and he was really working well into the bridle/soft hand. It's beginning to crossover to the under saddle work too. With the anticipated move next month, I hope to get Junior out on his first trail ride which I'm sure will be an adventure. Hoping that the winter/spring will see me back into going to a couple of shows too. We'll see but my riding is definitely starting to get back into it's old groove :D Recent evidence of this is that I'm stopping traffic again LOL. My current house, while in the middle of horse country, is very close to a very busy road and when I first had the stallion here before my daughter moved out with him, people would stop, pull over and watch us ride. Yesterday and today, I had the same situation with a few cars while riding both of my guys. Not sure if people just think I'm nuts or what......while it's odd it is getting me ready to get back into the show scene. Yeah!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby kande50 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:37 pm

Tsavo wrote: While not escaping the chicken-egg dilemma, the shoulder does appear to be involved in clubfoot and is suggested to be the cause by some experienced people. Watching and feeling my horse over the years, that is the strongest hypothesis for etiology in my opinion.


No history on the skeleton, so no way to know if it was in any way connected to a club foot, but when my horse dies I hope I'm still curious enough, and able enough, to dissect him to see if I can find anything similar.
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Tsavo » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:45 pm

That's a pretty interesting discrepancy you got there!

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Abby Kogler » Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:50 pm

Im not sure I would call neck arthritis and kissing spines diagnoses du jour. I think maybe people are getting smarter about the relationship between behavioural/training issues/problems/evasions and physical issues. Also improvements in technology mean more horses can be xrayed outside of the hospital setting, more study has been done on movement and weight and pathology (ie Hillary Clayton).

Prior to current diagnostic ability horses that may have have neck or spine issues were called cold backed, naughty, wild, willful, stubborn, and vets and owners played whackamole with lameness issues.

I have no idea if clubs are associated with cervical spine arthritis. I do know that what is often called a club is just a strong high/low and I have seen even severe of these diminish/disappear with correct trimming and body work and riding work.

I did not do a double blind peer reviewed study of thousands of horses of every breed in every discipline over a twenty year span.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby kande50 » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:08 pm

Tsavo wrote:That's a pretty interesting discrepancy you got there!


Too bad there wasn't some history on the horse to go along with the pic. I was given a couple of references, but either couldn't find the papers or didn't have access to them. Watson 2003, Lesniak 2013

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby DJR » Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:57 pm

This weekend was my monthly tune-up with my super-duper instructor, and it was very, very helpful. Particularly so on the heels of the Carl Hester symposium the weekend before. She teaches all the same basics as CH mentioned, but for me it was very, very helpful to watch more advanced (and properly trained) horses school the movements and some of the exercises. I can then better understand the "where we're moving to" part of the equation.

So, yesterday on my 6 yr old. Panache, we worked on travers to help solidify my position, especially the left travers (I find it hard to weight my inside seatbone for left travers). Carl Hester suggested to one of the riders in the symposium that they physically look at the horse's inside hind leg as they went into travers to ensure they were sitting properly. That was extremely helpful for me, and then my horse just magically did it (same with HP).

Today on Pan we worked on transitions within the trot, and WOW it was both revealing & a huge opportunity to move to the next level with his trot work. He has always dumped onto the forward for downward transitions, even since I started lunging him as a 3 yr old. I had been working on this, but today that AHA moment happened where I matched the feel of him sitting and the feel of him being forward (without fast) within the downward transitions. As a result, as we worked on it, his trot got better and better. I worked on going from an uphill semi-collected trot to a few steps of medium, and WOW what a great feeling. Jet, my other big boy, has never had a good medium so I've never personally felt the shoulders/withers lifting and the horse coming UP into the medium trot. Today was just a glimmer - Pan has a lot more trot to be developed - but it sure was exhilarating.

Then on to Jet, where I did similar work but at a Third Level intensity. His ability to sit in the canter got better over the span of two days. And, more importantly, my feel of what it takes to keep him sitting improved tremendously. The result of this work was that we did some counter-canter to counter SI to flying change, and his changes got better and better. For a horse like Jet who is so big and canter is not an easy gait for him (nor are changes), it was wonderful to feel how he responded when I learned to be a more effective rider.

My instructor will be back in 5 weeks, so I hope to keep up the momentum. Jet's BIGGEST hindrance is his level of fitness, so the more I just suit up & ride, the better he will get. The same goes for Pan but in a different way for him. Of course, we're in the middle of a deluge of chilly rain (100 mm forecasted over the weekend extending into tomorrow!!!) so motivating myself to ride tomorrow after work will be hard. (Oh, to have my own indoor!!!).
formerly known as "Deanna" on UDBB -- and prior to that, as "DJD".

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Flight » Mon Oct 30, 2017 1:11 am

Coming to the end of this goal period and I think I've achieved some of mine.
Yes we can do Spanish walk under saddle.
Knee is going well and is fine for riding and I'll be back at work in 6 days (oh no!!).
Lost the weight that I put on and a little bit more so I can finally fit into these breeches that I haven't been able to fit into for maybe 2 years:
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The boyfriend bought me some long boots for my bday back in July and bless his heart, a half size too small and I couldn't do them up. But with the weight loss I can and I wore them to a comp on the weekend! Very excited! Might have to lose a little bit more as I think I could hear the zipper groaning :lol:

We won a garland on the weekend too! However, there was only 2 of us in the Amateur rider class so I can't really brag about it. I still have to work out how to warm my horse up properly, I over rode him again and worked too hard to make him go so he doesn't relax enough over his back and really swing like he can at home. It's not him it's me and I wish I could get it right for the poor bugger, he is a sweet horse.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Mon Oct 30, 2017 2:42 am

StraightForward wrote:Time for a new thread again; summer flew by!

Hoping for a cooling trend soon; it's supposed to hit 101 today.

Annabelle will probably be off for another week after hanging her leg in a fence last week. Her hock is still a bit puffy and warm, but showing a little improvement each day, and her bodywork session on Friday helped to put some other things right. In the meantime, we'll do a little groundwork, including work on ground tying.

Since she was out of commission for most of August, September will probably focus mostly on regaining the bit of muscle she was putting on in July.

Simple green stuff like improving steering, rhythm and baby lateral work, catching the correct leads and insisting on a nice forward, marching walk will be the order of the day. I'm hoping to introduce some tiny crossrails in October just to change things up a bit. The last event derby of the season is in mid-October, so I'd like to get to that, even if we're just doing the ground poles division.


Still have not taught Annabelle to ground tie. :lol:

She did get better and go back to work under saddle in late September, so we've had about a month of solid work this time around. We did make it to the event derby, but just did Intro A and B tests, no ground poles.

Yesterday we also went to the trail challenge. Today we had a lesson, but she colicked and we had to stop about 20 minutes in. It seemed to be a mild gas colic and she was fine after Banamine and about an hour of walking. The day after our last lesson she fell down and scraped her stifle, I'm worried that she doesn't appreciate having to work hard in lessons! :? At least I did get out of my lesson that I'm drawing my outside leg up in lateral work; once I got it down and back, the LY improved a lot. I think I'm going to start using my blunt spurs since my leg is kind of long on her, and I tend to be tempted to pull my leg up to apply heel.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Moutaineer » Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:21 am

I'm all verkelmpt this evening. My dear friend came over to the barn this afternoon to watch us go. As she was leaving she called me outside and gave me a very precious thing--her late GP mare's full bridle.

She said I'd be needing it soon. Very big shoes to fill.

We are progressing. We are at 35 minutes under saddle including 4 circuits in each direction at a trot. Laddie feels strong and happy. I look like a flapping dolly. But it can only get better :)

https://www.facebook.com/amanda.tricket ... 189118444/

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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby Linden16 » Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:11 am

Goals? To ride both horses 4 days each week. That’s it. I have a lesson with my long time coach in 10 days, and I definitely need to work both horses consistently between now and then.
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Re: September and October Goals and Progress

Postby mari » Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:33 pm

Thought we'd end the month off with a fun show. Odie came first in both classes, with my instructor.

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