Stages in developing trot

A forum for discussion of training in dressage
demi
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2218
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Texas

Stages in developing trot

Postby demi » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:51 pm

I am excited that I am getting started in videoing my rides. This could be a great thread if we can add video clips. The feedback I got from posting a clip of Rocky's current trot on the Pony Trot thread, made me realize that I need to think about developing the trot.

I am not sure what to call our current trot. It is the trot I do all the time right now so maybe working trot? Instead of going into the background of what I've done trotwise on her, I will just start from where we are now.

My trainer has only ridden her 4 times so far, but the progression has been very interesting. The first time, she just cantered her (I would call it more of a gallop) for the whole lesson. I think she was just showing Rocky that she (trainer) was in control and it worked. She has Rocky's attention and respect. The second ride, a week later, she started at the canter again but quickly went to trot. The trot she did was much longer strided than my steady, shortened trot. It was very steady, but covered a lot of ground. The other thing I noted, was that her head and neck were lower than where I ride her, and she rode her BTV, which she didn't do the first ride at the canter. It was not Rolker by any means whatsoever, but it was definitely BTV. Again, I think she was still establishing her leadership. Then, on the third ride, two weeks later, she did mostly trot, starting with lower neck and head BTV. Then less than halfway thru the ride she put her up and open. It was a much longer strided trot than I do with her, it was steady, and powerful. Finally, yesterday, on trainer'r fourth ride, she started her at walk on the buckle! It was a nice, relaxed, active,and forward walk. Quickly, she went into a big trot, up and right on the vertical.

Obviously, Rocky has more range in her trot than I am able to get out of her. But the steady shortened trot that I do with her, is "my working trot" and the much longer, stronger trot that the trainer does is "her working trot".

Trainer hasnt even started to talk about trot development. She said I need to do a lot of haunches out. She said what ever I am doing at home is fine for now because Rocky is improving.

So as for trot work, I am going to start to lengthen a bit. Probably to start with, just going from the steady, shortened trot, spiraling down from a 20m circle to a 10 in the corner, and then change direction across the diagonal and asking for a few longer steps as we cross X. I will try to figure out where to place my iphone to get some video.

piedmontfields
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2735
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:41 pm
Location: E Tennessee USA

Re: Stages in developing trot

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:30 am

Demi, your video clips are inspiring me to look into cameras! I think it is just so rewarding to see progression. And I love seeing the variety of horses on this board with so many capable riders-trainers.

I have been convinced by trainers like JJ Tate that an "international trot" can be taught. I've seen her transform so many horses---from dinky little blah trots to quality GP trots. I suspect you will start to get more of what your trainer gets in trot when you do more canter. The canter always improves the trot (I think it is just a biomechanical benefit).

For some horses, short diagonals work well for opening up the trot. For others (often hotter ones), think about really building the amplitude/power of the trot on the short side. If it gets wild, well, you have a wall + corner to help! For my short-backed mare, canter work and trot lateral work (including "circle of death") have transformed our basic "soft jog" into genuine varieties of trot.

I look forward to your updates.

User avatar
Flight
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1811
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:39 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Stages in developing trot

Postby Flight » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:17 am

It sounds like she was getting the activity first, then stretching more over the topline, then having her up and balanced? (rather than leadership/control)
I've found our trot has definitely changed and the better connection and the more use of the hindlegs I can get, the better the trot.

demi
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2218
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Stages in developing trot

Postby demi » Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:53 pm

Flight wrote:It sounds like she was getting the activity first, then stretching more over the topline, then having her up and balanced? (rather than leadership/control)
I've found our trot has definitely changed and the better connection and the more use of the hindlegs I can get, the better the trot.

You could be right. Maybe that’s why she told me to do lots of haunches out, to strengthen and address the hind legs.

Dresseur
500 post plus club
Posts: 867
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:16 am

Re: Stages in developing trot

Postby Dresseur » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:09 pm

The trot is a gait that can change dramatically through training. But, the horse has to have the strength to carry to create the amplitude and loft that is so spectacular to watch. Even horses that present as flat or shuffle-y can improve dramatically in reach and scope of the stride. But, as other posters said, the key to this is strengthening the hindquarters and creating actions that fold and flex the hind legs. Lateral work is key to this, but also trot/halts. Many, many, many trot/halts. The other component is that you have to train a horse that is through enough to accept the half-halts and let them through their bodies. So that when you touch the reins, the whole of the body changes, not just the front. This will "ride the withers up".

I do most of my work in an energetic working trot. Every short side is a chance to refresh the trot, and also to train the response that when I ask a little more, the horse has to give a little more. The short sides help the horse not splat down on the forehand or run. If the horse is advanced enough, and there is no chance of the horse hovering in the gaits, you can add a bit of a passage feel to get that "show trot".

Where I find people struggle the most is with developing the medium and extended gaits. Some horses don't have great mechanics and they don't swing through their backs, so when asked to lengthen, they just move their legs as quickly as possible. Horses like that have to be taught another way to move. So they do get asked to move out, to the point of breaking into canter - because those few steps right before they break, they finally cut loose, move through the back and punch out through the shoulder. You can build on those moments. But I find that most people try to prevent the break, and therefore never get to those few steps. I've personally used that technique and ended up with a horse that consistently got 7's (started at 5s), and I've watched Andrea use that technique on many, many shorter moving horses, and I'm always shocked at the transformation.

piedmontfields
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2735
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:41 pm
Location: E Tennessee USA

Re: Stages in developing trot

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:28 pm

Dresseur wrote: Some horses don't have great mechanics and they don't swing through their backs, so when asked to lengthen, they just move their legs as quickly as possible. Horses like that have to be taught another way to move. So they do get asked to move out, to the point of breaking into canter - because those few steps right before they break, they finally cut loose, move through the back and punch out through the shoulder. You can build on those moments. But I find that most people try to prevent the break, and therefore never get to those few steps. I've personally used that technique and ended up with a horse that consistently got 7's (started at 5s), and I've watched Andrea use that technique on many, many shorter moving horses, and I'm always shocked at the transformation.


Yes, this is the technique that I've been taught and it has utterly changed Emi's trot. It felt kind of "wrong" when we started (as I was being one of those people preventing the break), but it has yielded results!

demi
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2218
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Stages in developing trot

Postby demi » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:29 pm

piedmontfields wrote:Demi, your video clips are inspiring me to look into cameras! I think it is just so rewarding to see progression. And I love seeing the variety of horses on this board with so many capable riders-trainers.

I have been convinced by trainers like JJ Tate that an "international trot" can be taught. I've seen her transform so many horses---from dinky little blah trots to quality GP trots. I suspect you will start to get more of what your trainer gets in trot when you do more canter. The canter always improves the trot (I think it is just a biomechanical benefit).

For some horses, short diagonals work well for opening up the trot. For others (often hotter ones), think about really building the amplitude/power of the trot on the short side. If it gets wild, well, you have a wall + corner to help! For my short-backed mare, canter work and trot lateral work (including "circle of death") have transformed our basic "soft jog" into genuine varieties of trot.

I look forward to your updates.

I am glad you’re inspired about cameras! I dragged my feet on using my iPhone because it wasn’t perfect :? And then there was all the internet stuff I would have to learn...But once i got the little tripod and the pocket remote, and actually got some footage, I really got a lot out of it. I can play around more with where I place it to get a better view for whatever I am working on.

And I think you are right about the canter. I have been trying to regain confidence after a bad accident four years ago, and with being out of shape from age and general slothfulness, I just wasn’t doing a lot of canter work. I knew Rocky needed it but I didnt want her to feel my lack of confidence. Having found the right trainer(I know I am becoming a broken record with this new trainer thing!sorry) Rocky can now get the canter work she needs, and I will gradually be able to start cantering properly again myself. And as you point out, the trot will improve accordingly!

So in the next week I will get some footage of our trot lengthening attempts. One of the problems Ive had in the past with trot lengthenings is being unable to feel small responses. So I would end up pushing too hard, asking too much, in attempt to feel if I was getting a response. This is where the camera will be so helpful.

I am excited. Yes.

demi
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2218
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:02 pm
Location: Texas

Re: Stages in developing trot

Postby demi » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:15 pm

Dresseur wrote:...

Where I find people struggle the most is with developing the medium and extended gaits. Some horses don't have great mechanics and they don't swing through their backs, so when asked to lengthen, they just move their legs as quickly as possible. Horses like that have to be taught another way to move. So they do get asked to move out, to the point of breaking into canter - because those few steps right before they break, they finally cut loose, move through the back and punch out through the shoulder. You can build on those moments. But I find that most people try to prevent the break, and therefore never get to those few steps. I've personally used that technique and ended up with a horse that consistently got 7's (started at 5s), and I've watched Andrea use that technique on many, many shorter moving horses, and I'm always shocked at the transformation.


This is very interesting. I can see myself in the category of trying to prevent the break, especially with my particular horse that would much rather gallop than trot. I will now be aware of the problem as I go forward (no pun intended).

User avatar
Flight
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1811
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:39 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Stages in developing trot

Postby Flight » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:36 pm

I tend to canter first now (after warming up) because the trot is so much better after the canter work. We do a lot of lateral stuff, in the beginning lots on the circle, lots up the long sides .. everywhere! Lots in walk when we started with my current instructor. Now in all gaits. Ding has changed quite a bit because of it.
We do SI, HI, SI, HI on a circle, then out into a medium trot and that's helped get better lengthenings too.

khall
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2515
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:47 am

Re: Stages in developing trot

Postby khall » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:48 pm

Flight Dins's trot is just amazing now! So much cadence to it. I am trying to improve Rip's cadence now that he is stronger. It is an energy thing with him and I have to encourage enough energy so he gets the lift and elevation but I also cannot let him get too closed up. I'm having to ride him out and up. I was also using a bit of the slower trot with long neck like dresseur quoted. There really are endless exercises to encourage better engagement, from transitions (skipping gaits, was doing T, H, T and C, H, C yesterday) to lateral work of varying patterns. Renvere to HI being one of my favorites, both on straight and bending lines. Half steps and piaffe of course are so important for strengthening. Want to give Spanish walk a try. Help with shoulder freedom. I have seen the trot them until the almost break to canter used for teaching the horse to let loose, Mark would not go there. He felt it was sending the horse out of balance, but I certainly know what the feeling is. I'm just not sure if it is the right technique for Rip. May have to give it a shot and see.

The beauty of this dressage work is all of the endless exercises we have at our disposal as our horses get stronger and more capable.

User avatar
Flight
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1811
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:39 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Stages in developing trot

Postby Flight » Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:26 pm

Yes, I used to do the trot faster until breaking into canter and it can give them the idea of taking longer steps, but that also taught me to chase it and get out of balance. It's been a lot more gradual with this instructor with emphasis on balance. And a lot more patience and just waiting for the horse to develop.


Return to “Dressage Training”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 51 guests