DefinitelyDressage.com

Okay in my never ending "signing up for a show" panic, I need some advice on extended walk. I've been watching some videos, but there seem to be MANY interpretations of this exercise. Some keep their horses shorter, some more like a free walk. What is ideal? What are the judges rewarding?

Any online videos showing high-scoring/ideal (assuming hopefully the same) extended walks would be super appreciated.

Trying to make sure I'm getting the details right and not throwing away points.

I'll look forward to replies from others with more experience. My understanding is that the extended walk is on contact, unlike the free walk. However, that can be tricky to achieve, so maybe that is why there are so many "free walk versions" of extended walk in the ring!

It's definitely on contact. Here's the section on Extended Walk from Dressage Canada rules:

3.3 Extended walk: The horse covers as much ground as possible, without haste
and without losing the regularity of the steps, the hind feet touch the ground
clearly in front of the footprints of the forefeet. The athlete allows the horse
to stretch out the head and neck (forward and downwards) without losing
contact with the mouth

not in a show but i like this one

https://youtu.be/lCJ9gewfdRk

A horse should be allowed to bascule/telescope within the walk. The horse in that video is pecking/nodding up and down, and for me is over tempo, but with overstride, yes. Interestingly enough when the horse (at about 2:30) goes to collected it merely shortens but is not collected.

Chisamba wrote:not in a show but i like this one

https://youtu.be/lCJ9gewfdRk

Wow that is really nice! That horse is overstepping at least four hoof prints, maybe five. I bet that horse normally has a large overstride that she pushed out further with training. My horse, not in that class of horse, will come out and overstride 2-3 hoof prints (on contact) without being asked to extend. I have done several types of walk which helps to get the horse to differentiate one from the other in my opinion. If he didn't naturally have that overstride, I don't think I would be able to do a lot with the walk.

I have brought him back into work recently and we do lots of walking. It's going to take some time to get strong enough to get back to where we were if we ever do.

galopp wrote:A horse should be allowed to bascule/telescope within the walk. The horse in that video is pecking/nodding up and down, and for me is over tempo, but with overstride, yes. Interestingly enough when the horse (at about 2:30) goes to collected it merely shortens but is not collected.

I would postulate that the reason the horse doesn't become more collected is because he's been taught to "collect his neck" by disengaging at the withers and overflexing at the poll? Wish I'd been able to see this years ago, although I am relieved that I listened to those who could see the difference so haven't taught my horses to do the same.

i love how certain people can criticize everything but never attempt to demonstrate anything

Chisamba wrote:i love how certain people can criticize everything but never attempt to demonstrate anything

Way better, IMO, than posting videos of cramped up, btv horses who couldn't sit and lift their forehands if their lives depended on it, because their riders have been convinced by the submission police that ifv postures (the only ones from which a horse can actually lift his forehand) are hollow and inverted.

DJR wrote:It's definitely on contact. Here's the section on Extended Walk from Dressage Canada rules:

3.3 Extended walk: The horse covers as much ground as possible, without haste
and without losing the regularity of the steps, the hind feet touch the ground
clearly in front of the footprints of the forefeet. The athlete allows the horse
to stretch out the head and neck (forward and downwards) without losing
contact with the mouth

Our USEF rules say almost the same thing except add that the nose should be in front
of the vertical.

I think it can be misunderstood where they say forward and downwards. It's downward as compared to the posture the horse was in at the collected walk prior to the transition to extended, but not downwards as in, for example, a stretchy circle. What you don't want is the neck dropping down from the withers or especially curling. Better to have a horizontal neck than that. I think the frame, the neck, the energy all are judged just as important as the overtrack. Also, the relaxation and the transitions in and out of it.

And yeah, as the OP has noticed, you'll get all kinds of extended walks and variations in the scoring.

I still struggle getting this right, it's definitely not a free walk, but it's more open and you keep a contact. I love that horses slinky walk in the vid, my horses do not have that big a walk! The comments I've received encourage me to have as much overtrack as possible, and quite active but with an elastic topline. When I start to push too much it can become a bit hurried and not as supple, so it's a fine line to balance it. I usually get 7s.

Flight wrote:When I start to push too much it can become a bit hurried and not as supple, so it's a fine line to balance it. I usually get 7s.

My instructor made a good point in my last lesson, which was that I shouldn't be pumping my seat to get a longer walk. I said that I felt like I was following the walk with my seat, but she said, and I agree with her, that whatever I was doing it was too much. And then she got on and started doing the same thing, because of course, it had become a cue so it worked.

It was a hard habit to break, so I started concentrating on lifting my chest/stacking my spine instead of "following" with my seat, and that cured the pumping, although I still need to convince my horse that he could put more energy into the walk without me having to keep reminding him.

musical comedy wrote: I think the frame, the neck, the energy all are judged just as important as the overtrack. Also, the relaxation and the transitions in and out of it.

I wonder how much latitude any horse has in terms of the frame and neck while they are overstepping 4-5 hoof prints. I think that amount of overstep might set some Limits on what a horse can physically do with other parts of their body given how extreme it is compared to a normal walk.

IMO that is too big of a walk, while it is a clear 4 beat walk the horse hyper flexes and is too much on his shoulders. Looks like a walking horse walk. Would be very difficult to collect.

I would rather see a bit smaller walk, still with over tack but not this much. Easier to collect without messing up the walk.

khall wrote:IMO that is too big of a walk, while it is a clear 4 beat walk the horse hyper flexes and is too much on his shoulders. Looks like a walking horse walk. Would be very difficult to collect.

I would rather see a bit smaller walk, still with over tack but not this much. Easier to collect without messing up the walk.

if that is hyperflexion than i am skinny! Seriously. And the rider can collect him in the walk and if you look at her channel is used to demonstrate walk pirouette training too. However as i said earlier i look forward to your examples of perfection, particularly if you can demonstrate them yourself.

Heaven forbid if I disagree with you Chisamba! It is the mechanics of the big walk that hyper flexes the back of the horse, take a look at how far back his front legs go as opposed to how far forward they go. He is on his shoulders with his back dropping at full extension. He cannot with that big of a walk stay through his back, it is just impossible. Yes he is relaxed, yes it is a four beat walk, no I would not want that big of a walk for extended walk. As for me showing perfection, I NEVER said I that I am perfect, I just totally disagreed with your example, so shoot me. I tried to find an example, but have not had much time to do so. I will show on the goals thread a good example of a good free walk that was taken yesterday, but right now I have Easter to celebrate. I just do not appreciate you being so nasty this early on a Easter Sunday Chisamba.

The difficulty of extension in walk is keeping the connection and extending the stride. It should NOT just be a game of who has the most o.s., and very big walks are often very difficult to collect with properly folded joints. As in all lengthening of the outline, the horse should seek the hard and remained arced out to the hand opening and lowering but still 'on the bit'. And collection which follows in not just shorter strides it is more articulated ones with folded joints (that would allow entry to piaffe). Pushing a horse for more o.s. through the tempo is really problematic as it can end up in a lateral walk. The (lovely) horse shown is precipitously flexed/compressed in much of its work, so the 'pecking' is rather an expected result of that. And note that the tail (the extension of the spine) is not swinging within the gait which is telling. And hopefully here there is to be a discussion of how to improve training, and why things appear in the horse, and how to change them rather than who can do it perfectly. (It would be more important WHY they could.)mho

I just went and look at my Extended Walk marks on 24 dressage tests. I wasn't pleased with what I saw. There were a few 7's, but mostly 6's. One might ask why I didn't pay more attention to it. That would be because (I guess) I wasn't unhappy to get 6's at 3rd-4th level and paid more attention to those 5's (or lower). This is one place where all the different judges were in agreement on my horse. They almost all wrote "needs more reach behind". Ironically, a couple of the tests where I got 7's said he was active, etc.

My horse doesn't have the greatest natural walk, but I think what happened to me is that I took a rest break during the walk work. Make sense? One thing I never had to worry about was tenseness or jigging. Since then, I realized the importance of always schooling at home as though you were at a show. IOW, do not allow your horse to collapse and fall asleep during your walk breaks, because then some expect to do that at a show.

Therefore, I think it's good that OP is thinking about ALL the movements she has to do, because all are important. Especially the walk, with the coefficient..

A Stephen Clarke USDF symposium clip touches on the extended walk:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=56wfiFCP2Tw

With some commentary on common pitfalls and mistakes. I think the walk shown is a bit hurried initially but improves as they continue in the clip.

I just happen to think it is a lot easier to discredit than it is to achieve. I see it a lot in discussing riders that are actually riding. It is easier for me too. I attempt to focus on what is being done right rather than what is being done wrong. Even if i look at my own videos when evaluating my performances. what do we keep and what do we improve. I bet if the OP gave an extended walk similar to the one i posted they would get a decent score. If you think she needs a better example, please go ahead and post one. I. am. done.

Ponichiwa wrote:A Stephen Clarke USDF symposium clip touches on the extended walk:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=56wfiFCP2Tw

With some commentary on common pitfalls and mistakes. I think the walk shown is a bit hurried initially but improves as they continue in the clip.

thank you for posting and example

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hraoW5bEuUI
I prefer this movement in a horse, still big and loose but not so big as to be freaky like the horse Chisamba posted. Plus I just love the way Uta Graf rides, trains and takes care of her horses.

For me, looking at fabulous horses doing great extended walks doesn't really help me and probably many other ordinary riders. One good way to see how the extended walks are judged would be to looked at the individual movement scores for the National Championships. They were (still are?) up on either USEF or some other channel. Another place would be to look at those Del Mar results that had the individual scores noted. You could watch the test and see the scores.

IMO that walk is as big as the one Chisamba posted- I do think that the connection to the bridle is better with Uta’s horse, which makes it a bit more fluid, especially since Uta is not over riding the walk- which actually distracts from the first horse’s walk.

I agree with MC though, these are both horses that have 10 walks and unlikely to be achieved by most of us. I’m not sure if I have any walk clips of Gala in my tests from any angles that are good to see. She doesn’t have a huge walk, but scores well. Miro has a huge walk - and we do not push it, because it can go lateral if over ridden. Actually, when I bought him, it was lateral. He literally had to grow into it. I’ll try to see if I have any of him, although, he’s not doing a true extended walk.

Thank you everyone for all of the posts and comments!!! I especially really appreciate the videos.

So that first horse, his walk is naturally a 10 and honestly it's shocking to me that anyone can collect that walk without it becoming tense and lateral. So, I think the trainer is doing a pretty good job given the enormity of that gait. I will also note that the footing there is def too deep in the middle of the arena, so the horse is sort of slogging through it a bit. Thanks for the video Chisamba!

Uta Graf's horse also has a super exceptional walk in a slightly different way. Both horses have given me a better frame of reference for the frame I'm trying to acheive, so I think that is really helpful.

I really like the Stephen Clarke video as well. A little bit more normal of a walk, so easier for me to absorb how we might compare.

One thing I don't have to worry about is my lazy-pants horse rushing or hurrying. I'm FAR more concerned that the judge might nod off for a bit mid extended walk only to wake up 5 minutes later and realize we are just finishing our diagonal.

In general, even though he is super charming and pleasant to watch, my boy is not a huge mover, so we really need to pick up every point possible where we can. I'm hoping we can be competitive against the bigger horses if we keep things accurate, well-executed, and correct. I'm hoping for comments like "well that was pretty good for that fat lazy haflinger" instead of "wow she rode that fancy warmblood like crap."

PS. This thread totally made me miss the debates on the old UDBB. This forum is much friendlier and better behaved now, but I do miss the spice of UDBB a little bit.

I will try to get some video of Rip's walk, it will probably just be me videoing him on line since I rarely have anyone to video me (the ones I posted from yesterday my DH took because I asked him to and then the dang mare bucked me off, lol!) probably won't get DH videoing me again, ha.

Rip is a WB but does not have the movement of the horses posted above. What I like about Rip's and Uta's horse is that they don't drop down in the front, but keeps the HQs engaged and the front end going out rather than going over the shoulders. Rip used to stay down in his shoulders and have a big walk, but now after getting him more up in his shoulders and he has changed his posture, he stays engaged, stepping forward with the hocks coming forward.

So think about extensions, you must have collection in order to have extension. Collection means the horse is engaged and active and up in his shoulders, with extensions they should not lose that: engaged, active and up in his shoulders. Just with extension they should stand over more ground, but there should still be an element of engagement so the HQs are not out behind. Anyway I will try to get some video of Rip see what you think, don't mind the hairy beast, he is still shedding all that fuzz he puts on every winter.

Dresseur I don't feel Uta's horse is quite as big a mover as the bay, but it may be the riding more than the horse like you say. So maybe I am more upset about the riding of the horse that Chisamba posted than the horse. What I see is a horse pushed too hard and more than what he can handle movement wise. Uta's horse is just superb.

HafDressage wrote: One thing I don't have to worry about is my lazy-pants horse rushing or hurrying. I'm FAR more concerned that the judge might nod off for a bit mid extended walk only to wake up 5 minutes later and realize we are just finishing our diagonal.

In general, even though he is super charming and pleasant to watch, my boy is not a huge mover, so we really need to pick up every point possible where we can. I'm hoping we can be competitive against the bigger horses if we keep things accurate, well-executed, and correct. I'm hoping for comments like "well that was pretty good for that fat lazy haflinger" instead of "wow she rode that fancy warmblood like crap."

PS. This thread totally made me miss the debates on the old UDBB. This forum is much friendlier and better behaved now, but I do miss the spice of UDBB a little bit.

Your post really made me laugh! I know that walk / have that horse Lots of good thoughts on this thread--thanks.

I usually get pretty good scores in my extended (after the first test I rode it and was chastised for letting the reins out too much). Not 8s necessarily but consistent 7.5.

I usually think about letting the reins out 2-3 inches, maybe a little more if my horse is really marching on his own. I give one bigger leg aid right before the extended walk and the instant I start letting the reins out to get the hind legs going and then mostly maintain with a swinging seat and if he's a little lazy, a bit of alternating legs pushing the barrel back and forth.

They key in the judge's comments I've seen is to not let the neck get any lower than the withers but still let the reins out so the nose is in front of the vertical and there is a clear change in the outline from poll to tail between collected and extended walk. If you are not sure your extended walk is that good or isn't going that well during a test, collect the walk a little extra before and after so you can show a bigger difference (do this in all of the medium/extended movements). You also want to think about having a fairly quick tempo if your horse has a tendency to be slow in the walk (if you already have a horse with a quick tempo, don't speed it up). Always, always put your leg on when you shorten the reins and collect the walk - the more you practice this in schooling, the less likely you'll have jigging in the test and the better you'll show the difference between the walks.

IMO it's important to remember that the extended walk comes out of collection - it's not a free walk (or even a free walk on contact). It has energy and marches - and the haunches are not out behind......
and I have also been counseled to collect a bit more before the extended paces to not only build the power (my trainer says, "make them beg to go forward" but also to show a clear difference in the transition. )