How do you introduce spurs?

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khall
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How do you introduce spurs?

Postby khall » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:49 am

Though I have ridden in spurs before, not in many years now. Just gotten lazy I guess. I've always used them to refine the leg aid, the whip is to amplify the leg aid. But I have never had any particular way I've introduced them. Cedar has a program of progressive introduction and education to the spur. Was interesting. One spur for sideways, other spur to stop. Spur on for engagement then soften in trot halt transitions.

What do you guys do with spurs?

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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby piedmontfields » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:19 pm

I am not an expert! But I'll share experience as I went through this last year. I now wear spurs sometimes. I hadn't ridden Emi in spurs at all, but I thought they might be helpful to jazz Emi up a little for more challenging work. So I just put them on and barely used them for many rides. I did lots of quiet hacks with them at first.

Personally, I use the spur mainly for collection/asking for more activity behind and occasionally as a little backup for sideways. I do not use it for forward (that is leg, or leg + whip). I once rode a spur trained horse (spur to stop) and it made no sense to me at all. I know western traditions have different approaches to spur training.

I have a working student ride my horse when I am out of town for long periods and she uses spurs in a different manner (i.e. for forward). It takes about one 20 m circle to remind Emi when I'm back that leg = go, not spur = go (and she is much more relaxed about that approach, as she holds more tension when the spur is used too much).

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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby Dresseur » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:17 am

I use them to refine my aids. I don’t introduce them in any special way, as long as the horse understands that both legs mean go and one leg means move over, I figure I’m ok to use a small spur if I want to. But usually, once I start lateral work, then I’ll put one on, not before that. I don’t do special leg placement. I want the horse listening to my seat and legs, and if I have to be that precise that the horse won’t do x, y or z if my leg isn’t in an exact zone, then I’m not on board- because hey... I make mistakes. Of course, I expect a GP horse to be ridden much more precisely, but if I put my leg on a GP horse or a young horse, they better move away from it, or forward if I put both legs on.

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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby Tsavo » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:28 pm

It is my understanding that spur is used mainly for bend. I use it to lift the rib cage to allow bend when then is needed. After seeing a video with Gal wearing only one spur, it dawned on me that I was only using my right spur so I stopped wearing one on the left for a while. My horse is coming back into work after several months off so I am not asking for much and don't wear spurs now. When he was working, I would usually wear spurs but rarely used them. But they were good when I needed them so I usually wore them.

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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby tlkidding » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:31 pm

As soon as the horse WTC, turns, and stops, spurs and whip go on until they are no big deal. Then they can go away or come back as needed.

I rode my horse from years 4.5-10 without spurs and put them back on when we needed more lateral response. I still don't use them much in the winter since they don't fit on my MH winter boots. I have little rounded POW nubbins and just got a longer pair of rounded POWs to see if they will help me achieve more with less aid but am being a weenie about trying them out.

I would recommend if you have a sensitive horse, probably pull them when you first start the changes.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Steffen Peters says whip is for forward/engagement and spurs are for lateral aids.

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Chisamba
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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby Chisamba » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:08 pm

Not on topic but I have always wondered if spurs are not for forward, and yes I've heard the mantra, why grand prix riders use them I extended gaits, and for piaffe and passage. ;)

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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby musical comedy » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:37 pm

Chisamba wrote:Not on topic but I have always wondered if spurs are not for forward, and yes I've heard the mantra, why grand prix riders use them I extended gaits, and for piaffe and passage. ;)
Maybe because they ARE for forward. When I first started eventing, I showed up at my first x-country school w/o spurs. The clinician immediately noticed and told me to always wear them jumping, and especially x-country. Take a look at top eventors (Ingrid for example). They all wear spurs, and it isn't for lateral work or refinement; it's for GO. When you think about it, whether it be using a spur for lateral work or using it for engagement, it still means go. No matter what it's used for, it's not to be overused such that it dulls the horse.

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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby Tsavo » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:13 pm

To the extent that Gal rides legs away pretty much, if you can get through a test without leg, you probably can get through a test without spur. :-)

And I will repeat what I noticed and my GP trainer confirmed... she does NOT work on forward with her GP. If he is in the ring working, he is forward. Like breathing. Like a behavior. She wears spurs all the time but I have rarely seen her use them, especially on the GP horse.

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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby tlkidding » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:02 pm

Chisamba wrote:Not on topic but I have always wondered if spurs are not for forward, and yes I've heard the mantra, why grand prix riders use them I extended gaits, and for piaffe and passage. ;)


I think it's more that there should never be any nagging with the spurs for forward. If you are spurring every stride to keep the horse forward, you need to fix it with the whip.

Of course if you use your let to get the horse more forward or to ask for more engagement, the spurs are involved. I think the statement is more to correct the mindset of the rider - don't put spurs on expecting them to keep your horse more forward. You'll just make the horse dead to the spurs like they are to the leg.

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musical comedy
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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby musical comedy » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:12 pm

Tsavo wrote:To the extent that Gal rides legs away pretty much, if you can get through a test without leg, you probably can get through a test without spur. :-)

And I will repeat what I noticed and my GP trainer confirmed... she does NOT work on forward with her GP. If he is in the ring working, he is forward. Like breathing. Like a behavior. She wears spurs all the time but I have rarely seen her use them, especially on the GP horse.
Ideally, yes, the horse should be forward and not need encouraging. The spur is there to back up the leg only when needed. (What Tlkidding wrote in the post above). Have you asked your trainer why she wears spurs.

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Chisamba
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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby Chisamba » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:07 pm

I admit that at times when i get on my horse without the whip, she says, you put your leg on, oh you must be kidding, but if i have the whip in hand and i put the leg on, she says, I am sure you mean it. Horses are better than I am at perceiving the difference in me. So obviously i use the whip to reinforce the leg, whether it means forward or sideways. I could obviously improve my application and specificity.

My always mantra is horses always go as you ride them. They do not read the manual, if you use seat for lead change or if you use leg for lead change, the horse does what you do. If you train voice for forward and whip for sideways, the horse will go as you ride it consistently. whenever there is a discussion about anything aids related, the only truth is keep doing what you do consistently, and what you can progress with because trying to change things without extreme focus is hard for humans and leads to inconsistencies in how you ride your horse.

in other words, take the advice that you are comfortable with and that most easily adapts to your personal approach and application.

The rest is more about showing, if you plan to show and are going to be judged then expect to be judged by the agreed upon standard and the general interpretation of that standard.

If you ride for your own pleasure and are not planning in being judged, you can interpret aids, posture, and progress any way you like. You can teach piaffe before your horse ever had a stride of canter. You can never canter at all if you choose. Heck you can teach canter and never trot, if you choose. self evaluation has that freedom.

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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby Tsavo » Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:45 am

Forgot to mention I know a GP trainer, has all her medals, who does not train with spurs. She wears toy spurs in FEI classes.

The rule requiring spurs at FEI while simultaneously allowing toy spurs at FEI is in the running for dumbest rule.

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Re: How do you introduce spurs?

Postby kande50 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:59 pm

Tsavo wrote:

The rule requiring spurs at FEI while simultaneously allowing toy spurs at FEI is in the running for dumbest rule.


So many rules, and most of them dumber than dumb.

How about Rule #1: This is what the horse should look like when he's doing such and such correctly, and Rule #2: Train the horse however you want and ride him in whatever gear you prefer, because we can see when it's correct and we can see when a horse has been trained harshly, and when we see abysmal work the scores are going to be so low everyone will soon figure out that harsh or shortcut training methods won't get them anywhere.

And then require judges to give scores that accurately reflect the quality of the work, and teach them about the halo effect and how to avoid falling for it.

Any additional information included in the "rules" should be about what the horse should look like when he's performing the movements in the tests correctly.


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