Fussiness with bits in double bridle

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Fzybtfrm
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Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby Fzybtfrm » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:14 pm

I have a 14 year old hanoverian gelding going 4th level/Prix St George. He has been wearing the double bridle for about 2-3 years, off and on in between using a snaffle bridle. I have used it fairly consistently the last year or so. The shank on the curb is quite short, both curb and snaffle are small-ish (in diameter) as I tried a thicker curb and he couldn't seem to wrap his mouth around it. I train with the curb rein loose, as I don't want to rely on it or be tempted to use it too much. I complained about his constant mouthing of the bits at my last lesson, and of course he barely moved his lips the whole time! At home though, it is fairly constant mouthing of the bits, with occasional mouth opening. I just had his teeth done recently ( a month ago) no issues there. I got dinged last year at a show for him having his mouth open a few times during a test. He shows no other signs of stress or discomfort, tries very hard for me 90% of the time, just can't seem to keep his mouth still. Does anyone have any experience with this or ideas to remedy it? I kept thinking he would get used to it and quit being so fussy, and this spring have been riding in nothing but the double , even to trail ride, to that end. I can't really afford to try a bunch of different bits, and my instructor has checked the fitting and agreed it is ok. I have tried moving the bits up and down in his mouth to no effect. The curb has no port to speak of,its just gently curved upward in the center. Any thoughts or suggestions appreciated! TIA! :D

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musical comedy
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby musical comedy » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:54 pm

Sometimes things that have worked for a while stop working. I have a friend that bought a made GP horse. She rode him for several years racking up good scores and good work. All of a sudden, he starts with the tongue hanging out. Could never be fixed, and she retired him because of it.

Of course, that's not your problem, but it could be many things. Why don't you try going back to the snaffle only and see if his mouth quiets down. That would eliminate the bits as the reason. Even though you aren't activating the curb, it's still two bits and not the same as just a snaffle.

Also, the lower the port the more tongue pressure. (Yes, I know the disadvantages of a high port). When I quit riding in the double, I switched over to one of the Myler bits with a port, but is legal in dressage. My horse loved it because it removed some of the tongue pressure. It's the tongue pressure that some horses don't like.

galopp
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby galopp » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:10 pm

A loose curb chain means the curb is not as stable as it should be (it should prevent the bit from going more than 45 degrees/preferably less); if the chain is too loose a port can come forward into the palette or it is simply too much onto the jaw, so the horse opens the mouth. A thick or short curb means more pressure on the tongue and bars. My favorite bit is a sliding cheek one, which allows the bit to move slightly as the horse softly chest and swallows (so the horse should be moving the mouth). This is the only weymouth I use:
http://www.ridingwarehouse.com/Centaur_ ... -CWCB.html It is key that in all bits that the horse's jaw remains mobile in the jaw, that comes through (proper) lateral flexibility, asking and allowing self carriage, never a steady pressure (Do you use ubersteichen with the inside rein?) Remember the snaffle is to allow the horse to stay up/open/etc, while the curb (used rarely) is to allow the horse to come lower or closed. For a horse which is unsettled perhaps try 3:1 (three reins in the outside hand (held closed to the withers), and the snaffle in the inside hand). mho
Last edited by galopp on Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

khall
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby khall » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:11 pm

Dressage extension has a good try before you buy with bits. I know the double bits are expensive, but at least you could try them first without shelling out for multiple bits.

Srhorselady
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby Srhorselady » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:41 pm

I read somewhere (sorry too long ago) that some BNT used to put something (jelly maybe? NOT red) on the bit when a horse was fussy. She wrote that it wasn't 100% but worked with some.

galopp
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby galopp » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:04 pm

The one above is only $40.

HafDressage
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby HafDressage » Thu May 03, 2018 4:22 am

My guess is that you need to experiment with some other bits. I would agree with Gallop's recommendations as well as tell you to look into some of the Neue Schule bits. They have lots of interesting options. I also agree about the curb chain being tight rather than loose. You could also try a tighter curb chain with a rubber curb chain cover. That can make a big difference as well.

I think it's also worth trying a higher port bit. If he isn't happy with the lower port, he might actually respond well to a larger or wider port.

Good luck and let us know how it's going. :)

Fzybtfrm
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby Fzybtfrm » Tue May 15, 2018 2:18 pm

Thank you all for your thoughts and suggestions! Love this forum! I live out in the boon docks and other than my biweekly lesson don't have anyone to bounce things off of. Appreciate it!

Fzybtfrm
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby Fzybtfrm » Tue May 15, 2018 3:34 pm

I have just spent about an hour on- line searching for a 5 3/4" or 6" weymouth similar to the one galopp described. I have a 6 " on him now, but could probably go with a 5 3/4". Like finding hen's teeth! Suggestions appreciated. Will also check local english consignment tack store. TIA, again!

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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby HafDressage » Mon May 21, 2018 1:41 am

Fzybrfrm - I'm sorry I just saw this. Not sure where to say to try to find a sliding one in that size. Given that you might need to try a couple, you might want to do the bit testing thing with dressage extensions. It will cost a little in shipping, but also will give you some options. Below are a few that might be different from what you have and so they could be worth a try.

http://www.dressageextensions.com/ns-dr ... p/NS10358/
http://www.dressageextensions.com/ns-sl ... p/NS10353/
http://www.dressageextensions.com/h%2fs ... r/p/R1108/

Fzybtfrm
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby Fzybtfrm » Mon May 21, 2018 12:47 pm

To all of you thanks for the ideas. I remembered that I had a few curbs at the bottom of my tack trunk that I have picked up over the years in the hope of riding at the upper levels one day, and found a 5 3/4 inch with a nice medium port. It has made a huge difference !!!! he is still a bit chewy and builds up good foam, the first few days he was a bit sticky in it, but no more opening his mouth constantly. I am so glad I thought to seek advice here,
Prix St George here we come!

MaryC
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby MaryC » Wed May 30, 2018 3:53 pm

In my limited experience with the double, I find my gal is fussy if I'm not steady with the contact, while she's fine if I give her a place to settle. I think all the hardware intimidated me into trying to be "soft" especially warming up, and not taking a feel or giving away what I did have, and she was looking for it. Trying to maintain a quiet contact has made a huge difference for us (yeah, not only with a double!).

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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby Ponichiwa » Wed May 30, 2018 4:27 pm

MaryC wrote:In my limited experience with the double, I find my gal is fussy if I'm not steady with the contact, while she's fine if I give her a place to settle. I think all the hardware intimidated me into trying to be "soft" especially warming up, and not taking a feel or giving away what I did have, and she was looking for it. Trying to maintain a quiet contact has made a huge difference for us (yeah, not only with a double!).


I find this with my mare as well. It has helped me to think about the ideal contact as reliable and trustworthy, not necessarily as soft. If I'm prioritizing soft over reliability, the connection gets super wonky. Trustworthy over soft, and the softness comes with the consistency. It's the darnedest thing.

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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby piedmontfields » Wed May 30, 2018 6:37 pm

Ponichiwa wrote: Trustworthy over soft, and the softness comes with the consistency.


I need to repeat this like a mantra and DO IT!!!!

piedmontfields
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby piedmontfields » Wed May 30, 2018 6:37 pm

Ponichiwa wrote: Trustworthy over soft, and the softness comes with the consistency.


I need to repeat this like a mantra and DO IT!!!!

demi
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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby demi » Wed May 30, 2018 10:59 pm

piedmontfields wrote:
Ponichiwa wrote: Trustworthy over soft, and the softness comes with the consistency.


I need to repeat this like a mantra and DO IT!!!!


Me, too!! And in I’m still in a snaffle. Soft just always seemed so important to me that I put it first especially with the sensitive types I have always ridden.

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Re: Fussiness with bits in double bridle

Postby galopp » Thu May 31, 2018 4:53 pm

Please do not get a forward leaning port like shown in one of the links above, it is into the palette before the reins are even picked up (worse with a loose curb chain). They are horrid imho.

This is 5 3/4 http://www.dressageextensions.com/loose ... th/p/1060/
And this is 6" http://www.thehorsebitshop.co.uk/product.php?xProd=278


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