More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

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Tsavo
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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Tsavo » Sat May 26, 2018 2:47 pm

This may be irrationally exhuberant but by the end of June i think will have my horse back to close to where we were when he left work at the end of August in terms of looseness. He still will need more time to build strength. If he stays sound of course. I ride 5 days a week. If I could ride 7 or twice a day this would go faster.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby StraightForward » Sun May 27, 2018 7:03 pm

Nice ride this morning. I hauled the rest of my set of jumps to the new barn and set up a small course of ground poles, which I eventually raised to small x-rails. Annabelle is not convinced that jumping is exactly worth it. Towards the end of the ride I put them back on the ground and we cantered through the course a few times, which I think was beneficial to her because she has to have a little more accountability to watch where she's going and adjust her stride. Next time I'll have to put the x-rails up a bit to get her to lift off, but I think next weekend I'll set up a jumping chute and see how she negotiates a few obstacles in a row before introducing grids and "real" jumps under saddle.

She's having a little trouble with her right lead again, but the bodyworker is coming out tomorrow and I'm hoping that will help. Her right lead seems to slowly deteriorate until she gets worked on, then it's better immediately. Luckily, the deterioration is less each cycle, to the point that if I'm very emphatic with my aids I can still get the lead, whereas before it became impossible, or she would buck into the lead.

Miss Pickle is about halfway through her Gastrogard course, and has had three Magnawave sessions. Since I've had more of an opportunity to work with her, I've detected a subtle, intermittent lameness that tends to show when she starts to move in a better posture. She also snakes her neck a lot, especially in upwards transitions on the lunge, so I'll probably get her neck x-rayed when she goes back to be scoped in two weeks. Another boarder was also telling me about a vet who's very good at figuring out lamenesses and also does acupuncture, so I'll probably drop some more money on that. On the up side, she is showing more tendency to reach her neck forwards/downwards on the lunge instead of holding it rather up and stiff. I'm thinking some steady in-hand and correct lunging would help her and potentially work through the lameness, so she might be staying with me for a couple months. I'm anxious about losing her place with the trainer, but obviously can't send her back until the lameness is resolved.
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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby mari » Mon May 28, 2018 9:30 am

This morning our dressage arena was finally finished! I've been schooling in a jumping arena for the last 6 months, and while the space is lovely, it certainly does my already-wonky geometry no favours... So this morning I broke in the new arena, while my jumping instructor was measuring out and putting up letters.

It was fairly terrible. I rode like a palooka, of course, probably because he was watching. Lost stirrups, ploughing through the bit onto the forehand, scrabbling transitions. Uuuuuuuuuuuuuurgh. And this after the sweetest, softest ride two days ago.
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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Chisamba » Mon May 28, 2018 1:38 pm

mari wrote:This morning our dressage arena was finally finished! I've been schooling in a jumping arena for the last 6 months, and while the space is lovely, it certainly does my already-wonky geometry no favours... So this morning I broke in the new arena, while my jumping instructor was measuring out and putting up letters.

It was fairly terrible. I rode like a palooka, of course, probably because he was watching. Lost stirrups, ploughing through the bit onto the forehand, scrabbling transitions. Uuuuuuuuuuuuuurgh. And this after the sweetest, softest ride two days ago.


its much easier to ride a sweet soft ride when you only ask when you and the horse are ready. accurate geometry requires that you be ready to ask at the spot, and for each test that is sooner and sooner, so in reality you should be ready at any and all times. its also easier to think you are soft and sweet when you are not straight, accurate circles test you for dressage straightness. that is one of the reasons why people who do not show and are never judged on accuracy think their horses are better. if you need another step to make a relaxed transition you take it, but in actual tests there is not enough room for this. the real real skill is to get a soft and relaxed ride that is also geometric and positionally accurate

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby demi » Mon May 28, 2018 8:50 pm

I’m off my horse for a while. The pain from my sciatic nerve got so bad we went to an urgent care clinic yesterday. I got predisone and pain pills. I feel SO MUCH better today but I need to give the muscle that was irratating the sciatic nerve a rest. I’ll lunge Rocky 4 times this week and then she’ll have a lesson with trainer on June 4.

And that’s my progress report. Not a linear progression for me!

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Moutaineer » Mon May 28, 2018 9:55 pm

Demi, I've had a bad time with the same thing over the past few years. It is wicked painful, I know!

Eventually an MRI showed that I have arthritis and bulging disks in the SI area. These a) impinge on the sciatic nerve and b) cause my piriformis muscle to go into spasm, which of course impinges further on the sciatic nerve. After some ineffective fiddling around with painkillers, muscle relaxers, etc., the pain clinic doc finally injected both my SI joint and the piriformis with some kind of cortisone mix. It took a few days, but it did work, and kept me comfortable for a year. Then I had it done again. This year, for some mysterious reason, so far I'm all good. Long may it last.

So, follow up aggressively. We are fortunate here in that we are an Olympic ski training venue, so we have very good orthopedic people, Physios, and pain doctors who don't believe in just pushing pills, and whose main philosophy is to get you back out there doing what you love. It makes a huge difference in the care you get for sports-related injuries. Don't let anybody palm you off because you aren't 21 anymore!

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Flight » Tue May 29, 2018 1:31 am

I'm a bit behind again, but enjoying reading everyone's updates. I've started a new position at work but it means being away from home 4 days a week, so that really has hampered my riding!!
I had my last comp on the weekend - eventing again! It's been a while and I only do a really low level but it gives me enough exciting moments not to want to jump higher! Ding did well, jumped clear even when I nearly jumped the wrong jump at the end and had to do a quick divert a stride out.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby mari » Tue May 29, 2018 5:00 am

Chisamba wrote:
mari wrote:This morning our dressage arena was finally finished! I've been schooling in a jumping arena for the last 6 months, and while the space is lovely, it certainly does my already-wonky geometry no favours... So this morning I broke in the new arena, while my jumping instructor was measuring out and putting up letters.

It was fairly terrible. I rode like a palooka, of course, probably because he was watching. Lost stirrups, ploughing through the bit onto the forehand, scrabbling transitions. Uuuuuuuuuuuuuurgh. And this after the sweetest, softest ride two days ago.


its much easier to ride a sweet soft ride when you only ask when you and the horse are ready. accurate geometry requires that you be ready to ask at the spot, and for each test that is sooner and sooner, so in reality you should be ready at any and all times. its also easier to think you are soft and sweet when you are not straight, accurate circles test you for dressage straightness. that is one of the reasons why people who do not show and are never judged on accuracy think their horses are better. if you need another step to make a relaxed transition you take it, but in actual tests there is not enough room for this. the real real skill is to get a soft and relaxed ride that is also geometric and positionally accurate


So painfully true...
The aim of argument or of discussion should not be victory, but progress. ~ Joseph Joubert

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Sue B » Tue May 29, 2018 3:48 pm

A couple of weeks ago, i had the horses trimmed, they were fine that day and the next...and then it rained, and rained, and rained. Tio wore the walls right off his feet and was walking on his soles--not a happy camper. He also had a crack next to the frog sulcus that required digging out and iodining. Long story short...I should have iodined both horses' feet soon as I saw the weather report and I probably should have given them Bute a little earlier. Rudy faired better because he has really tough, well-formed feet, excellent walls etc. At any rate, both horses are now sound and I got to ride finally.

The xw trial saddle arrived awhile ago and while I immediately put it on him, it wasn't until Thursday or so that I could ride in it. Through the long weekend, I have now given it a pretty good trial and can report that Tio loves it, as do I. Despite his feet being ouchy Friday, soon as I got on, Tio was ready to go. All the balking is completely gone now and it is clear that he looks forward to our rides. Yesterday I was able to canter all the way around the srena on the right lead and haldf way on the left lead. In the right lead canter, he is starting to soften his back and get his lovely swinging canter that he shows on the lunge and over fences. I can't wait for the neighbor to cut the hay next door so we can play out there again.

Rudy is doing fine, although he is still one fiery dude lately. I tried to take him down the road Saturday but there was a fair amount of thunder and lightening going on (and strong winds) and for the first time in a long time, he said no! I rode in the arena instead, but had to quit when it started hailing. The good sport that he is, Rudy actually worked quite well even though he was anxious to be turned loose to go shelter up. I do love my pony.

I am planning on posting some pics soon. School will be out and ds will be able to help then. Cheers to all!

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby musical comedy » Tue May 29, 2018 4:00 pm

SueB, why don't you keep them in the stall when the weather is inclement?

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby demi » Tue May 29, 2018 6:01 pm

Mountaineer, thanks so much for the advice and info. I have an appointment with my primary care phys on Thursday. He is a very thorough dr and will refer me if necessary. I am hoping there are no disc or spine problems. Sciatic pain is a killer!!!!

Flight, Ding looks so good! I love that you do so many different things with him.

Mari, glad to hear a good report on your progress with Odie. He is a super neat looking horse!

SueB, sorry about the hoof issues, but glad it’s resolved now. Glad the new saddle is working out so well. Be carefull on your spirited horses! My Rocky at 11 years old is still sometimes affected by wild weather conditions. I won’t even get on her if the wind is more than 20mph gusts. I’d probably be ok, but at my age i dont want to take the chance that she might spook out from under me.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby khall » Tue May 29, 2018 9:10 pm

A friend and I went and audited Arthur Kottas at Shannondale yesterday. Drool worthy place (been before to GOV inspections but my friend had never been)! AK is a lovely man, very kind and funny. I found his instruction for US pretty spot on but did not like the inhand work at all. Very simplistic and IMO not horse friendly. So very different from what Mark taught and what Jillian K teaches now. I was curious about his instruction and wanted to see for myself, could never afford to ride with him! $900 for 3 days plus $125 for a stall! Way too rich for my blood. Nothing earth shattering what he said to the riders, saw many horses that were having difficulty engaging their HQs. My opinion were blocked by reins, saw one really cute Iberian school master, and a few nice WBs. There were 2 Frisians there but not really my cup of tea.

We are still getting soaked here daily and even though my arena is holding up just fine, no cover and with it threatening to down pour frequently have not ridden now for over a week. Still have the clinic going on this weekend, will drag Rip and Joplin out come hell and probably high water!

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Ponichiwa » Tue May 29, 2018 9:21 pm

First really hot week of the year has come, and I was not ready. I may never be ready. I may melt for the next 3+ months until temperatures get back under control again.

But I did have a bit of a breakthrough on the one day where I scrounged up enough motivation to actually work and not just hack around the field. I've had intermittent bucking in the changes for a while now that has reduced in frequency but still lurks occasionally, and could not for the life of me figure out what is going on. My arena is on a bit of a grade, which is great for muscle-building but, as it turns out, can induce bucking if I ask for the changes when she's headed down the downhill slope and isn't perfectly straight. Uphill and not perfectly straight? Can still sort through the changes. Downhill and slightly crooked/behind the leg? Bucking.

Another problem solved.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Sue B » Tue May 29, 2018 9:45 pm

Sorry, MC, I forget that some (or all) of you may not know that i have no barn. My horses live in a beautiful hilly pasture with a run-in shelter, 24/7, out here in the high desert region (4500 ft altitude) of southern Idaho. There is no muck that they stand in, only wet grass and sandy soil--it's just that some springs are harder on T's feet than others. Coming from a boggy pasture in Olympia, WA, Tio had horrid, soft feet with severely underslung heels and crazy long toes. Years of good barefoot trimming and shoes when needed, have turned them into near "normal" now. Thank you for the suggestion though.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Dresseur » Wed May 30, 2018 1:33 pm

Just a few tidbits while I should be working on actual work stuff.
Sue B, I can relate. The mud has been brutal this spring. I had been monitoring M's feet closely because I was seeing some changes that I didn't like. The edge of his hoof was rolling over, and his sole was looking recessed. I called by farrier who came over asap and he told me that the mud was so abrasive that it was sloughing off his soles. Luckily, he was able to clean him up in a way that kept him sound, and I was able to have him moved into a drier field.

For those that are having issues with piriformis and sciatic nerve - I've been having issues for a while now down my left side. I sit at a desk all day long, and even though I get up frequently, by mid-week, I'm in agony. It used to be that it would "reset" over the weekend because of activity, but now I'm having trouble over the weekends too. Luckily, it doesn't bother me a bit riding, but, sleeping is starting to be a bit of an issue. I'm terrified to go for any diagnostic testing because I don't want to see what's going on in there (besides the scoliosis)

I'm also trying my best not to have another frozen shoulder - my left shoulder had frozen due to a minor tear in the rotator cuff - that pain was un-real. Almost as bad as the broken ribs. I'm now having issues with my right shoulder, and like the other, I can't recollect any injury to it. But, I'm recognizing the feeling and doing the PT protocol on it in an effort to prevent a full on freeze. So, I can't sleep on my left hip, can't sleep on my right shoulder, which leaves my back or stomach - which means no sleep! argh.

Miro has been going gangbusters - I'm realizing that I never really had him following the inside rein. I would go half way with it, then take over with my outside leg - which was masking the issue. He's feeling amazing and is super happy in his work. I had to up his feed because his energy levels were dropping, and he's starting to feel better again - I just have to watch his weight like a hawk. The insight that I had about following the inside rein actually solved an issue that I've had for a while in regards to corners. I never felt like I did corners correctly. There would always be something odd in the feel of the horse, or I'd feel that the horse would be leaning somehow, I had bend - but I just knew something was not quite right. So, this last week, on all the horses that I rode, I made sure that they were following the inside rein, and I didn't over ride the outside in an effort to complete the circle and I realized about 4 horses in that my corners felt cadenced, stood up and smooth. Very, very interesting.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby calvin » Wed May 30, 2018 8:17 pm

Chiming in here! The weather has been lovely which is an incentive to school, hack and play with the horses. Demi, take care with that sciatica. It is common and as Moutaineer suggested, well-timed injections can be fantastic. As to a frozen shoulder, oh Dressur. It can come (and GO) for no apparent reason. Dressur, can you elaborate on following the inside rein? Khall, I rode in a couple of clinics with Arthur Kottas and truly enjoyed him. I have a senior horse (age 23) and I am a senior rider of limited skills. I had very, very good, demanding lessons which upped my expectations and my horizons considerably. For example, as to changes - why was I not trying them? He had many, many exercises to address the issue of "late behind" but the fundamental problem was that I was not playing with the horse, trying things out, making mistakes, and learning. That is a rider issue! He was kind, funny, and demanding: a good teacher for me. He moved me beyond second level in a positive way and my greatest pleasure was his respect for my kind, obliging and somewhat aged horse: some clinicians feel that the older models are past their prime and perhaps not worth 100% effort. Mr. Kottas was extremely generous in sharing his knowledge and in moving the goalposts. My horse has also participated in a hunter show and even a low jumper class this month (with a rider both younger and braver than I am). It is a good balance.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby khall » Wed May 30, 2018 9:39 pm

Calvin AK seemed like he would be very fun and engaging to ride with, don't know if it is just this venue but dang $300 per lesson is just not doable for me. What we saw mostly was the horses were not active enough. He wanted much more engine in there for engagement. He did help one rider with late behind changes, more about timing with her. It was fun to watch other than the in hand stuff. That in most cases was painful.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby StraightForward » Thu May 31, 2018 4:14 am

Dresseur wrote:Miro has been going gangbusters - I'm realizing that I never really had him following the inside rein. I would go half way with it, then take over with my outside leg - which was masking the issue. He's feeling amazing and is super happy in his work. I had to up his feed because his energy levels were dropping, and he's starting to feel better again - I just have to watch his weight like a hawk. The insight that I had about following the inside rein actually solved an issue that I've had for a while in regards to corners. I never felt like I did corners correctly. There would always be something odd in the feel of the horse, or I'd feel that the horse would be leaning somehow, I had bend - but I just knew something was not quite right. So, this last week, on all the horses that I rode, I made sure that they were following the inside rein, and I didn't over ride the outside in an effort to complete the circle and I realized about 4 horses in that my corners felt cadenced, stood up and smooth. Very, very interesting.


Dresseur, can you expand a little on this -how do you differentiate following the inside rein vs. depending on the inside rein? I feel like I’m finally getting A onto the outside/right rein, but in reviewing some video from our last ride, I have a sneaking suspicion that there is too much neck bend, but not enough following, as I sometimes feel that she’s blowing out through the right/outside rein now that she’s accepting some contact on that rein.
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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Tsavo » Thu May 31, 2018 12:21 pm

Dresseur wrote:For those that are having issues with piriformis and sciatic nerve - I've been having issues for a while now down my left side. I sit at a desk all day long, and even though I get up frequently, by mid-week, I'm in agony. It used to be that it would "reset" over the weekend because of activity, but now I'm having trouble over the weekends too. Luckily, it doesn't bother me a bit riding, but, sleeping is starting to be a bit of an issue. I'm terrified to go for any diagnostic testing because I don't want to see what's going on in there (besides the scoliosis)


I developed this from stiff leg dead lifts and treadmill at high speed. It largely resolved when I stopped doing the lifts but reappeared when I was doing 12.0 mph sprints. Now I don't go above 10.5 mph but it still bothers me at that speed. I do foam rolling before working out which helps though I have no idea why given the origin of the problem is in the lumbar. I have herniated 2 discs in my life, both riding related and I don't think those discs will ever be normal. I am losing bone at a record pace despite there being no osteoporosis in my family (we are big-boned Croatians!) due to my vegan diet. You would think that is making more room for the discs LOL.

I'm also trying my best not to have another frozen shoulder - my left shoulder had frozen due to a minor tear in the rotator cuff - that pain was un-real. Almost as bad as the broken ribs. I'm now having issues with my right shoulder, and like the other, I can't recollect any injury to it. But, I'm recognizing the feeling and doing the PT protocol on it in an effort to prevent a full on freeze. So, I can't sleep on my left hip, can't sleep on my right shoulder, which leaves my back or stomach - which means no sleep! argh.


I have been to PT for each of my painful shoulders. It was due to poor posture. Now, my gym workouts substitute completely for ever needing PT for shoulder again. It is my understanding that many people have tears in their rotator cuff and it doesn't necessarily map to an injury or accident. I had to stop doing incline bench press because I was developing shoulder pain on the right. The pain is very slowly (months) resolving and there are plenty of arm exercises I do to work around it. I don't know if it will resolve completely.

Miro has been going gangbusters - I'm realizing that I never really had him following the inside rein. I would go half way with it, then take over with my outside leg - which was masking the issue. He's feeling amazing and is super happy in his work. I had to up his feed because his energy levels were dropping, and he's starting to feel better again - I just have to watch his weight like a hawk.


That's were my horse was a while ago... feeding enough for energy but not enough to blow him up like a tick. I was dieting him to the point of him not being able to do the work because weight is so bad for the joints and feet. Plus I started getting visions of strangulating lipomas for some reason LOL.

The insight that I had about following the inside rein actually solved an issue that I've had for a while in regards to corners. I never felt like I did corners correctly. There would always be something odd in the feel of the horse, or I'd feel that the horse would be leaning somehow, I had bend - but I just knew something was not quite right. So, this last week, on all the horses that I rode, I made sure that they were following the inside rein, and I didn't over ride the outside in an effort to complete the circle and I realized about 4 horses in that my corners felt cadenced, stood up and smooth. Very, very interesting.


Motorcycling in corners is just a strength issue, no? A weak horse will motorcycle with an elite rider I bet.

I think having the idea of the horse almost equally in both reins is the key to corners and other things. This was brought home when an instructor said that until you have the horse in both reins in SI, it will not be completely correct. It is easier on my horse and the horse I am riding now to do SI with a slack inside rein than having value in both reins. The footfall is correct but it is just a trick to get them onto the outside rein like that. It is only when they are drawing on the inside rein also that you are riding both sides of the horse. Just being in the outside rein with no inside rein is close to correct but it isn't correct as I understand it. It is tempting to abandon ship on the inside rein when the horse is in the outside rein. I tell myself I am just "testing" the connection to outside rein but I really I am not using inside rein at all at times. That's how I interpret your comment. I may be wrong about what you are saying.
Last edited by Tsavo on Thu May 31, 2018 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Dresseur » Thu May 31, 2018 1:32 pm

No, the motorcycling is not just a strength issue - it is if you attempt corners and circles that are too small in radius for the horse's current strength level, but any horse can do a 20 meter circle without motorcycling if they are ridden well, and then you work down from there.

So, following the inside rein. The principle is simple (please note, I'm using words like pull to put it in the most simple of terms, not because I'm yanking my horse's face off.) - if I pull the inside rein around, the horse should smoothly follow that. So, if I'm at a halt, and I pull the inside rein around far enough, the horse should bring his nose to my knee with no resistance. That is the largest range of motion and of course, you will get neck bend with this.

The outside rein is the limiting rein. So, if I keep a feel of my outside rein - and touch the inside rein, the horse should still, without resistance, yield to the inside rein as far as the outside rein will let them. This is what you are doing with the flexions and what they teach a horse. Yield the jaw, yield the poll - the outside rein prevents the neck from just swinging around (of course outside leg is in play too... just breaking it down to the most simple of terms).

So, if you bring the nose around, and then let go to test the inside rein, and the horse immediately swings it's head back to the center, or worse, to the outside, the horse has not yielded to the inside rein.

If I'm changing directions through a figure 8, and I touch the new inside rein, the horse must immediately follow, while my new outside tells the horse how large of a circle. A horse that is still leaning or holding onto the inside rein, will lean through the turn. (And yes, of course inside leg will play a role in making sure the horse isn't leaning on the leg as well as the rein).

My goal is even weight in the reins, so if I want to change direction, or leave the SI for a circle, or whatever, and I touch the inside rein, the horse must follow. I was going halfsies on it... so, in the SI, he would hold bend, but then I would indicate that we are leaving the movement for a circle and he would just merrily go on his way down the rail. Or, in the canter, he would just keep enlarging the circle. In the canter, I had two options - control the outside - which was what I was doing because hey! my outside rein is my limiting rein, so it must be that. But that just created a horse with a short outside - what was really happening was he was not following my inside rein. (think spiral in/spiral out) If I asked for a spiral in at the canter, all hell ensued - which is what gave me my first clue as to the actual problem I was having.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Moutaineer » Thu May 31, 2018 3:46 pm

Having watched that CDJ "transformation" video that Khall posted, I've started working more on quality and expressiveness of the gaits, particularly the trot. This also goes back to Mette's comments about "adding music" to my riding.

This takes quite a lot more physical effort from both of us, so I'm glad I adjusted Laddie's feeding schedule to add more fat and protein a couple of months ago. He's blossomed and put on substance and muscle and changed shape quite considerably from an oblong to more of a square. He's not fat at all, but he looks like a warmblood rather that a lean TB (I have not adjusted my own feeding schedule as I'd take the lean TB look, myself...)

He's also got the power and energy to do the more demanding work. He's really starting to step under himself and add suspension to the trot--which makes it much easier for me to sit, which has helped my back no end!

He seems to be really enjoying using his body this way--he's bursting with positive energy. He has to be reminded occasionally who calls the shots and that we can't work at that level of intensity all the time!

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby khall » Thu May 31, 2018 4:52 pm

Mountaineer, I am getting similar feelings from Rip after working on the mediums, getting more power to his trot. Very much what I saw AK working on with the horses Monday, needed more, more engagement, more power, more activity behind. Some just at the trot, some both, one more so at the canter. Rip's canter is actually pretty good, but needed more activity and engagement at the trot. Fun to feel him offering that power rather than me having to request it.

Mulling over the inside rein thing. I am still of the opinion that the inside rein is a young horse necessity, but should be phased out with training. It is used to help turn the horse with the timing of the inside leg (just as the inside fore is about to come off the ground). But once a horse has the balance and understanding the inside rein should be used less and less because you can block that inside hind leg. If the horse is bulging out the outside shoulder then he is not connected IMO and through. Steering IMO is about the shoulders, steering the shoulders of the horse not the nose with the reins. If the horse is motorcycling it would IMO be more about the balance or lack there of. To correct it you actually need to take the shoulders a bit to the outside (that old correct the shoulders to the haunches thing) to get the horse off the inside shoulder and straighter on the bending line (better aligned I should say) Mark is the one who taught me this and it was ground breaking in my understanding of riding horses. Especially when changing bends, move the shoulders just a half step to the outside of the new bend to allow for easier change of direction. Sets the horse upright not leaning.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Dresseur » Thu May 31, 2018 6:02 pm

Well, Miro is a young horse, as are the other horses that I'm riding right now, so they are definitely still needing to follow the inside rein. But a horse trained to a higher level, you would just indicate with the rein that you want a bit of flexion to that side - but where that came from is the very basic building blocks of first following the rein. It's a continuum from large aid to the tiniest aid. Steering is first about follow the nose, so that you can lead the shoulders. If steering was only about the shoulders, there would be no need for the horse to be soft and mobile in the jaw or poll, and there would be no purpose to flexions or in hand work... just neck rein.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby musical comedy » Thu May 31, 2018 6:16 pm

Tsavo wrote:I think having the idea of the horse almost equally in both reins is the key to corners and other things. This was brought home when an instructor said that until you have the horse in both reins in SI, it will not be completely correct. It is easier on my horse and the horse I am riding now to do SI with a slack inside rein than having value in both reins. The footfall is correct but it is just a trick to get them onto the outside rein like that. It is only when they are drawing on the inside rein also that you are riding both sides of the horse. Just being in the outside rein with no inside rein is close to correct but it isn't correct as I understand it. It is tempting to abandon ship on the inside rein when the horse is in the outside rein. I tell myself I am just "testing" the connection to outside rein but I really I am not using inside rein at all at times. That's how I interpret your comment. I may be wrong about what you are saying.
This is something my trainer addressed in my lesson before last. My trainer agrees with what you wrote.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Chisamba » Thu May 31, 2018 7:29 pm

Ponichiwa wrote:First really hot week of the year has come, and I was not ready. I may never be ready. I may melt for the next 3+ months until temperatures get back under control again.

But I did have a bit of a breakthrough on the one day where I scrounged up enough motivation to actually work and not just hack around the field. I've had intermittent bucking in the changes for a while now that has reduced in frequency but still lurks occasionally, and could not for the life of me figure out what is going on. My arena is on a bit of a grade, which is great for muscle-building but, as it turns out, can induce bucking if I ask for the changes when she's headed down the downhill slope and isn't perfectly straight. Uphill and not perfectly straight? Can still sort through the changes. Downhill and slightly crooked/behind the leg? Bucking.

Another problem solved.


long ago old horseman told me, if you are trying a horse and want to know if it will buck, canter downhill. LOL

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Chisamba » Thu May 31, 2018 7:35 pm

[quote="Dresseur"]

So, if you bring the nose around, and then let go to test the inside rein, and the horse immediately swings it's head back to the center, or worse, to the outside, the horse has not yielded to the inside rein.

/quote]

completely disagree. it depends entirely on if you have contact in the outside rein, if you release the inside rein, with no leg and contact in the outside rein, you have told the horse the (was ) outside rein is the ( new) inside rein and it should straighten or counter bend.

if you take the inside rein, and no, i do not take the inside rein til the horse touches my knee, but if you take the inside rein, and the horse bends without tipping its head, it has yielded to the inside rein.

if it bends, and you release, and it stays there, you have created a head set.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Chisamba » Thu May 31, 2018 7:43 pm

khall wrote: I am still of the opinion that the inside rein is a young horse necessity, but should be phased out with training. It is used to help turn the horse with the timing of the inside leg (just as the inside fore is about to come off the ground).


again i disagree. the horse should yield to the inside rein with sufficent relaxation that it does not block the inside hind leg. If contact on the inside rein blocks the inside hind, then why does contact on the outside not block the outside hind leg. and for that matter, why do western pleasure horses, with no contact at all, go around with both hind legs blocked.

usually it is the application that counts.

Image wow , look at how the contact is ( not) blocking that trot

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Chisamba » Thu May 31, 2018 7:45 pm

as usual, the training thread is going for a diversion. as usually i am find myself following the diversion. I would like to point out that simply strongly disagreeing does not mean that i dislike or disrespect the person i am disagreeing with, simply that on this point, i disagree

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Dresseur » Thu May 31, 2018 8:30 pm

Chisamba wrote:
Dresseur wrote:
So, if you bring the nose around, and then let go to test the inside rein, and the horse immediately swings it's head back to the center, or worse, to the outside, the horse has not yielded to the inside rein.

/quote]

completely disagree. it depends entirely on if you have contact in the outside rein, if you release the inside rein, with no leg and contact in the outside rein, you have told the horse the (was ) outside rein is the ( new) inside rein and it should straighten or counter bend.

if you take the inside rein, and no, i do not take the inside rein til the horse touches my knee, but if you take the inside rein, and the horse bends without tipping its head, it has yielded to the inside rein.

if it bends, and you release, and it stays there, you have created a head set.


I'm not offended by any disagreement! And I probably did a piss-poor job of explaining. What I was trying to say with the head swinging right back is usually people pull on the rein and the horse never yields, it just tips the head or pulls back a bit, so when you release... the horse whips it's head back around because it was actually pulling back against the rein. (And no, I don't take the head until it touches my knee either... it was just the extreme to paint a picture). But, if I ask the horse to flex to the inside slightly, I expect that the horse stay there until I ask for more or less flexion or flexion the other way. Or, until I ask the horse to extend the neck or whatever other action. I'm not looking for the horse to stay posed... but if I change nothing, I expect that the horse change nothing. Which sounds contradictory, but because I'm always asking for something - a little less or a little more stretch, flexion, oomph whatever... it's all very dynamic. So, if I give both hands forward, but don't change my position otherwise (as in 3rd level/Test 2), I expect the horse to stay upright and not plunge down - If I give my horse both reins and come forward and down with my hands and position, I expect the horse to follow my hands. Same with the reins, if I take a little rein, I expect the horse to not pull back against the rein or lean on it.

Basically, the underlying issue was that instead of saying, horse, please follow my inside rein, I was masking the resistance by over riding the outside aids.

Hope that explains what I meant a bit better.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Ponichiwa » Thu May 31, 2018 9:12 pm

Chisamba wrote:
Ponichiwa wrote:First really hot week of the year has come, and I was not ready. I may never be ready. I may melt for the next 3+ months until temperatures get back under control again.

But I did have a bit of a breakthrough on the one day where I scrounged up enough motivation to actually work and not just hack around the field. I've had intermittent bucking in the changes for a while now that has reduced in frequency but still lurks occasionally, and could not for the life of me figure out what is going on. My arena is on a bit of a grade, which is great for muscle-building but, as it turns out, can induce bucking if I ask for the changes when she's headed down the downhill slope and isn't perfectly straight. Uphill and not perfectly straight? Can still sort through the changes. Downhill and slightly crooked/behind the leg? Bucking.

Another problem solved.


long ago old horseman told me, if you are trying a horse and want to know if it will buck, canter downhill. LOL


I've now independently verified it. Kiwi will buck.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby khall » Thu May 31, 2018 9:16 pm

Yes Dresseur! That makes way more sense, whew and I fully agree. It's a balance IMO. Chisamba I agree with you too about the releasing to the inside rein, but when the horse releases to that rein, then they fill out the outside or draw on the outside rein and that is when we ride the horse on the outside aids. Was one of AK's focus points at the clinic Monday.

Wow! See riding with no reins and no inside rein!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWYNv0s39Ek

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Chisamba » Thu May 31, 2018 11:13 pm

western pleasure people ride with no inside the reins all the time. I genuinely do not understand why people assume something that was not said. I never said a horse could not go with no reins. I simply said that having contact on the inside reins does not block the inside leg.

In fact most WP horses, while going in no contact, are very blocked.

i have seen riders use many methods to acquire responses in horses. I am simply discussing from the POV that competitive dressage, at least, is about connection. In my opinion it takes two reins to develop connection, responses can be taught in many different ways.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Tsavo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:34 am

Dresseur wrote:My goal is even weight in the reins, [...]


I am not sure this is the goal. If you ride in position I think there will be slightly more "value" in the outside rein which is not weight but workable weight that makes the horse wieldy at any weight in my opinion.

In re turning, I think that can be done from seat and is separable from lateral movements like SI. You brought up the example of taking Si to a circle and your horse continuing straight. I would say my hips are straight on the track with the haunches in SI. When I want to turn I let my outside hip come forward a bit and allow the outside hind to come over. Nothing should change in the reins or at least I am not conscious of anything changing in the reins.

It is my approach to ride in position at all times. This gives a head start on SI and collection itself.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby DJR » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:42 am

I've fallen behind on this thread so apologies to everyone as I'm not sure where everyone's at these days training-wise. I've been so bloody busy, it's been crazy.

Nevertheless, I've managed to ride the horses around 3x a week. It at least keeps them at their current level of fitness.

Jet (13 yr old Friesian/Perch Third Level gelding) has been standing in the paddock pointing his right front, and resting his left hind. He is totally sound when moving at liberty & under saddle. This has been going on the last couple of months, more noticeable lately. I had him assessed at a regional lameness centre including radiographs and it was very reassuring. The vet was complimentary of Jet's movement (he wasn't expecting that when he saw the breeding and saw the huge horse come off the trailer!), and was astounded that at age 13, and given his size, he's never needed hock maintenance of any sort. Extensive radiographs of his front feet, pasterns & fetlocks showed pristine joints with the exception of very mild medial sidebone in the right front (not enough to cause issues). His navicular & coffin bones looked super, too. I was SO relieved to hear this.

What was found was an unbalanced foot. He is shod in front, and both feet have become toe-long, heel underrun. Nothing major (yet), but definitely there. I'm disappointed because I had to switch farriers late last summer because my old one retired (how dare he!!), so I've had a new farrier since September. I was noticing that all of my horses' toes seemed a tad (very slightly) long but wondered if I was being too picky. I then spoke to a friend of mine who I don't see much and she uses the same farrier ... and had the same experience that the toes are left longer than we'd like. Again, nothing major, but it makes a difference. The vet who saw Jet is confident that with corrective trimming and bringing the foot back into balance, he'll stop pointing and will be more comfortable. I'm going to give this farrier a chance to make things right, but will be very picky that the feet are done properly.

Meanwhile, Panache (7 yr old WBx) is schooling Second Level. My trainer and I are noticing that he is always stiff in SI on the right rein, and seems to avoid weighting the RH leg. He isn't lame either, but I had to have the farrier out at 3 wks after the last trim to redo his feet (long toes!!) and to roll his hind toes more to let him break over more easily. After that trim, with "rolled toes", his hind feet looked normal (not rolled). I hate to blame everything on the farrier ... but ... ! It could well be that in his exuberant fartin' & buckin' & carrying on (at liberty, with his paddock mate) that he hurt himself over the winter and is just a bit sore with certain movements. So I'll get the chiro out to check him and see if it's the case or not. He rides sound otherwise and seems to have settled after his reactive re-start to riding in March, thank goodness ... he is now much happier in his work and eager to see me when I go out to feed.

I'm now riding my daughter's QH large pony, Sawyer, because she had her arm in a cast for almost 2 months (freshly out of the cast 3 days ago, though!). Sawyer has a tendency to avoid contact and to evade by inverting or going behind the bit. He also developed a bad habit with my daughter of stopping, putting his head down, and balking/refusing to go forward. Sometimes he tries to duck out, too, by throwing his left shoulder around and evading. I've ridden him for about 10 days now (3x weekly) and the last two rides he didn't balk at all, but I could feel him thinking about it. I now have an exercise rider who JUST started and has ridden Sawyer about 3 times, and he's balked on her 2-3 times each ride. So, I'm wondering if he has a sore back, although this started when my "weighs-nothing" daughter rode him (she's a beginner so he learned some bad habits with her). It could just be bad habit. He's responding well when I ride him (I'm focusing entirely on teaching him to trust a steady contact, which seems to be helping) so hopefully that's the case. I'll have my chiro look at him, too, though, when she's next out.

And, then there's Finn (4 yr old Hano/Shire gelding). He's about to enter his third month of harness training and he has come along MARVELOUSLY. He is driven 5 days a week out in traffic, exposed to all the sights & sounds that road driving brings. The trainer sent this photo today showing him walking along without batting an eye when a loaded school bus passed with the bus less than 2' from the carriage wheels ... !!! And the school kids were hanging out the windows yelling at Finn on the way by. First of all, WHY MUST DRIVERS BE SO IDIOTIC WHEN PASSING HORSES??? And a school bus driver, no less. Pathetically stupid. But more importantly, LOOK AT FINN!!! Rock solid. I love this trainer. He brings them along progressively, building from the last outing to the next, and the horses respond beautifully.

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At the end of June, Finn goes to another trainer who backed my previous WB/Friesian gelding, Loxley, and he'll restart Finn under saddle (the harness trainer no longer backs large horses due to the trainer's age). I can't wait to be riding this boy myself!

That's my long update. Thanks for reading to those who made it through the whole thing. LOL.
formerly known as "Deanna" on UDBB -- and prior to that, as "DJD".

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby khall » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:43 am

chisamba you were being disingenuous when you shared the photo of the Standardbred "not blocked", in no way could a trotter's way of going be compared to a dressage horse's way of going. The video I shared was of a dressage rider, a damn good one, several times French National champion and of Cavalia and Gallop to Freedom fame, showing pretty dang good example of HP and renvere on a bending line no less, showing good bend and self carriage with no bridle. No way could Magdilla's riding be compared to a WP rider/horse. Can a rider get a bit more finesse with bit and bridle? yes, but this shows how the training should be able to progress where the horse can carry itself (self carriage) listening to the seat aids with little to no rein aids. Now this is the end game and there is lots that go in the middle, but one of the steps is where the horse fills out the outside rein and lightens the inside rein when they release to the inside flexion, freeing up the inside hind and inside shoulder to step into that outside rein. Can you block on the outside rein as well? Absolutely as dresseur has described. There has to be an allow in the contact, but most definitely a lightness in the inside contact.

chisamba do you every do uberstreiken? If so, why? It is a test of the self carriage is it not? Usually done with inside rein but can be done with both (I remember when one of the 3rd level tests had you do uberstreiken with both in medium canter, yeah that was a bit exciting on an OTTB!). So while yes dressage means we can ride with contact, that contact should evolve with training showing more and more self carriage and less reliance on the rein aids. The lateral work we do encourages both the change in the contact and the self carriage in the horse as it strengthens with development.

In examining what lateral work does, I think about how the energy shifts (almost said weight but it's not really) from shoulder to shoulder (that mobilizing the shoulders as we use lateral work in developing our horses). In SI that energy is shifted to the outside shoulder, lightening the inside shoulder as the horse moves away from the bend, stepping under center mass with inside hind. That old inside leg to outside rein stuff (AK repeated this phrasing frequently Monday). But what really develops self carriage and strength and flexibility is the changing of the bend/flexion, shifting that energy from one shoulder to the other and then being able to utilize the lateral work that moves into the bend (HI, renvere, HP) that is where the horse has to free that inside hind to step out while the outside hind engages, the outside rein is the dominant rein controlling the bend and angle while the inside rein reinforces the release to inside rein/flexion as needed.

Renvere is my all time favorite lateral movement and I particularly like being able to move from renvere to HI, to show mobilization of shoulders and hips, changing the engaging hind leg and shifting that energy from shoulder to shoulder. Got that from Anja B, one of her books.

Yes a bit of a tangent here!

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Tsavo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:25 am

All of these horses doing upper level work in neck rings were trained with bridles. And they get refreshed in bridles in-between the showcasing.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby khall » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:04 pm

DJR nice update and I can understand being concerned about Jet's stance. I had a TB that did this for years, pointed RF while resting. Turned out is was farrier related as well, sigh. Took him out of work for about 8 months to get him sorted back out. So difficult to find a good farrier that understands the balance of the foot. One of Mark's pet peeves and I have seen him more than once take a file to the feet of the horses he was working with. Mark was a farrier before he became a trainer. Thank goodness I have an awesome farrier now! Cool about Finn, can't wait to see how he handles the US work after his stent driving.

tsavo yes I am well aware of this. Why I said you get more refinement with bit bridle than with neck rope, but this shows there should not be a reliance on the reins and in fact the training should encourage lightness as they continue their development. If I remember correctly the SRS talk of riding with silk reins or attaching the reins to the bit using material that breaks easily to show how light the horse can be.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Chisamba » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:21 pm

my photo was a simply easy quick way to explain that nothing is absolute.

if a horse can trot down the stretch at full speed with weight in the rein, then obviously there is an occasion where a horse may have weight in the rein and not be blocked. if it may be true in that context, it may be true in any context including the accepted context of dressage, and equal contact in both reins.

once again you choose to read emotion, meaning and implication in my comment that not intended. I wonder why.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Tsavo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:34 pm

Khall, there is a 100% reliance on the reins whenever the horse is not doing tricks like in the neck ring exhibit. Unless the trainer can get correct work with only the neck ring and never a bridle then it is trick riding by definition Good trick riding but still trick riding.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby khall » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:20 pm

chisamba this is a dressage board, talking about training dressage so I pretty much thought it was understood we were discussing dressage training. So I will be more explicit, IN DRESSAGE, the overuse of the inside rein will block the horse's hind legs from being able to fully engage. Is that better?

Only when riding on a straight line aka center line would you have the horse in both hands equally. Whenever there is bend or positioning the horse should be lighter on the inside rein.

BTW chisamba you did not answer my question if you ever used uberstreiken.

tsavo I do not think of riding with a neck rope as "trick riding" it is riding a well trained horse showing the ability of that horse to listen and react to seat aids of the rider with self carriage and lightness. Showing good harmony and partnership, something that is lacking in much of the competition dressage world.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Dresseur » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:48 pm

khall wrote:Only when riding on a straight line aka center line would you have the horse in both hands equally. Whenever there is bend or positioning the horse should be lighter on the inside rein.


The horse should still be "in position" while riding straight, even straight down centerline.

My personal goal is to have the horse evenly into both reins. My reasoning is that at any point, in any movement, I can ask the horse to telescope the neck out - so there should be an even draw into both reins. I always want to be able to see the outside cheek piece of my bridle in SI in particular to avoid overbending.
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khall wrote:But what really develops self carriage and strength and flexibility is the changing of the bend/flexion, shifting that energy from one shoulder to the other and then being able to utilize the lateral work that moves into the bend (HI, renvere, HP) that is where the horse has to free that inside hind to step out while the outside hind engages, the outside rein is the dominant rein controlling the bend and angle while the inside rein reinforces the release to inside rein/flexion as needed.


Maybe I'm misreading or misinterpreting you here, but this doesn't track with me. The changing of the bend and flexion doesn't develop strength, they develop suppleness which is a conduit to better expression. The lateral work develops collection and self carriage because of the ability to isolate one hind leg vs another. In essence, weight lifting for the horse. You do need the bend in order to do the exercise properly, but you are shifting driving energy from one hind to the other, not the shoulders - the hind should drive the shoulders up and out of the way as the horse gets stronger.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Sue B » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:43 pm

Crazy rain storms here so nothing to report riding-wise.

DJR, perhaps the saddle is pinching Sawyer's shoulders ever so slightly? Now that Tio has a saddle that accommodates his ginormous shoulders, he no longer balks. at. all., whereas before he would duck and balk when worried or confused (not to mention buck too.) The last time I rode, in fact, I even had him go up and down a mound of dirt, something he found frightening, and instead of pitching a fit, he looked it over and then crept up and down the pile stretching into a long rein. I swear it's the saddle that is making the difference. :P

I don't think I will venture into the other discussion, but it has given me food for thought. carry on.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby khall » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:55 pm

Dresseur I totally disagree with you on having the horse evenly in both reins. WHY? They act in different ways. It is the outside rein that is the limiting rein, limits the longitudinal flexion and is the collecting rein. That is the rein the horse should follow down when stretching. The inside rein is the rein of flexion, it is required for the horse to understand inside flexion/release to the inside rein before they can connect and understand the limits of the outside rein. Seeing the outside cheek piece in SI, umm not if the horse is bent correctly. Inside corner of the inside eye, is what was drilled into me.

As for changing bend and flexion, when you change the bend and flexion you change which leg is engaging or how it is engaging (SI to renvere, same leg is engaging but moving into bend rather than away from bend). It is the engaging and narrowing of the hind legs using lateral work that strengthens the horse, the flexion supples the horse. All is done together as we use it for further development in the horse. The horse's hind legs do not drive the shoulders up they engage so that the horse can raise the shoulders as the hind quarters lower/flex more. That energy from the hind legs is captured into the outside rein to recycle and recirculate, engaging them and lightening the forehand, NOT the inside rein.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:03 pm

May update: 22 rides, lots of focus on smooth transitions with power and connection. After a month of deliberate work, I am more convinced than ever that truly simple things like a genuine trot-canter-trot transition with changes of bend through a figure 8 is just not as simple as it looks. I mean, there's executing that simple pattern and then there's executing with precision and power! (and very light aids) At least with this focus things like walk-canter and canter-walk have become super easy and civilized. I am also liking our transitions within trot more and more.

On reins: I have been taught more similarly to what Dresseur and others describe, as in we want the horse into both reins. That said, I also think of riding in position as just a given. JJ Tate calls riding into both reins part of the rainbow of throughness, from outside hind to outside rein and inside hind to inside rein. Of course she would add that there is also a rainbow of connection from inside hind to outside rein and outside hind to inside rein.

I also think of Charles de Kunffy's guidance to "canter onto the left rein" when departing in left lead canter. In other words, the inside rein isn't "empty" or lacking connection. It has its own connection, as does the outside rein.

For me, it is pretty challenging to get my horse honestly into both reins, so I find that a more useful goal to think about. It is pretty easy to ride my mare in a manner than "looks" like she is on the bit and in position with no rein contact at all (or even without reins), so that is not a real useful goal for us. That said, I confess that I sometimes ride Em on no reins to see how much she is listening to the seat--and because she finds it relaxing. Large and small circles, changes of direction and changes of gait are easy, but lateral work beyond a leg yield is not possible for us without reins. Not saying any of that work has any quality :lol: :lol:

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Tsavo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:09 pm

khall wrote:tsavo I do not think of riding with a neck rope as "trick riding" it is riding a well trained horse showing the ability of that horse to listen and react to seat aids of the rider with self carriage and lightness. Showing good harmony and partnership, something that is lacking in much of the competition dressage world.


Why not just drop the reins and do the same neck rein work?

When you train a horse with X and momentarily stop using X but have to go back to X then it is a trick as opposed to a way of life. It is not self sustaining. It is ephemeral. A momentary trick. Horses are so tractable that they will continue for a while without rein aids but because the rein aids are required for correct work, riding in a neck ring is a moment in time before the work degrades.

The new age natural horsemanship crowd look at neck ring riding and assume it is some kinder way to train. Or a get-out-of-learning-elastic-contact-free card. They are all wrong.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby khall » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:25 pm

tsavo a bit dramatic are we? "They are all wrong" Good grief, no it is a test of your training, not a trick or get out of learning elastic contact (BTW the video I posted of the rider is a GP rider). It is a test just like uberstreiken is, or riding with one hand, or riding with curb rein only, one handed with whip pointed up (SRS). It is a test of the communication between horse and rider, a test of the training and a test of the harmony between the two.

Karen Rohlf uses bridle less riding a good bit in her work, from early on to even more advanced work. She also rides bareback like the rider I posted. Quit being such a stick in the mud. Dressage comes in forms not just with horse, rider, saddle and bridle. Don't you remember Isabelle W riding her older GP horse bareback and with halter? BTW Ingrid Klimke rides bridle less as well. Ingrid Klimke- GP rider and trainer.

https://www.facebook.com/IngridKlimke.S ... =3&theater

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby DJR » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:48 pm

Sue B wrote:Crazy rain storms here so nothing to report riding-wise.

DJR, perhaps the saddle is pinching Sawyer's shoulders ever so slightly? Now that Tio has a saddle that accommodates his ginormous shoulders, he no longer balks. at. all., whereas before he would duck and balk when worried or confused (not to mention buck too.) The last time I rode, in fact, I even had him go up and down a mound of dirt, something he found frightening, and instead of pitching a fit, he looked it over and then crept up and down the pile stretching into a long rein. I swear it's the saddle that is making the difference. :P

I don't think I will venture into the other discussion, but it has given me food for thought. carry on.


Good thought. I wondered about the saddle fit on him. I may try him with my old Collegiate dressage saddle to see if it fits better (it has a wider tree than my AP saddle). I put my Amerigo on him but it's all wrong for his back shape.
formerly known as "Deanna" on UDBB -- and prior to that, as "DJD".

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Tsavo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:59 pm

khall wrote:tsavo a bit dramatic are we? "They are all wrong" Good grief, no it is a test of your training, not a trick or get out of learning elastic contact (BTW the video I posted of the rider is a GP rider). It is a test just like uberstreiken is, or riding with one hand, or riding with curb rein only, one handed with whip pointed up (SRS). It is a test of the communication between horse and rider, a test of the training and a test of the harmony between the two.

Karen Rohlf uses bridle less riding a good bit in her work, from early on to even more advanced work. She also rides bareback like the rider I posted. Quit being such a stick in the mud. Dressage comes in forms not just with horse, rider, saddle and bridle. Don't you remember Isabelle W riding her older GP horse bareback and with halter? BTW Ingrid Klimke rides bridle less as well. Ingrid Klimke- GP rider and trainer.

https://www.facebook.com/IngridKlimke.S ... =3&theater


None of that work was trained without a bridle.

I am not talking about the riders who trained the horses with bridles and then do a ride without a bridle. They all understand elastic contact in their sleep and need no card to get them out of what they already know. I am talking about the folks do not realize that all these moment-in-time exhibitions are the result of training with a bridle.

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby demi » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:07 am

Hoping June will be better for me and Rocky because May didn't turn out as I had planned. The goal was to video (iPhone taped to the fence to be more accurate!) my ride yesterday but I haven't ridden or even lunged since May 22. My piriformis seems to be getting better but the leg is weak and I have fallen twice since the injury. I cancelled my lesson for this Monday as I am still taking drugs that make me too drowsy to drive (or pull a horse trailer). I hope to start lunging Monday, at least, and then be ready for the next lesson on June 18.

I am enjoying the thread anyway so thanks for ALL your reports.

DJR! How exciting for you that Finn is doing so well. I so enjoyed the schoolbus pic!

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Re: More Leg! More Leg! - May and June Goals

Postby Chisamba » Sat Jun 02, 2018 12:43 am

Demi, i sure hope you start feeling better soon.

Piedmontfields, i think its challenging for everyone to get the horse equally in both reins, that is why there are so many levels of contact, aka connection. It takes time because it does also depend on both the strength, proprioception and balance of both the horse and the rider.

DJ, i am as always amazed at how much you manage to achieve with all your horses.

I too am choosing to disengage from the contact discussion.

WRT riding, we are going to a show tomorrow, I had decided to take Deneb but actually pulled her and entered Kimba at the very last minute. Deneb managed scrape her leg and it is sore and stiff so Kimba was thrown into the breach. I am taking a few friends/clients with and hope to have a fun outing with an opportunity to evaluate progress.


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