More leg? Not really...No

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HafDressage
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More leg? Not really...No

Postby HafDressage » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:21 am

Okay so recently I've been seeing all of these riding memes' on facebook that are like "more leg" is the answer to everything. And also the thread on here...more leg more leg....and I just have to say....

NO...LESS LEG. Like maybe more forward or more from behind, but 100% not more leg squeezing or kicking. So in my eyes, the goal is always LESS Leg. Perhaps it's a difference between H/J's who tend to have constant calf squeeze and dressage riders who do not, but to me this is just so inaccurate and so these memes are driving me nuts.

So, anyway, I had to get that off my chest. :D :D

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Chisamba
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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby Chisamba » Fri Jun 01, 2018 2:35 am

Agreed

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:01 pm

I'm right there with y'all! As you know, I have been quite fixated on this of late (and my horse did not require much leg before this fixation---I've just been building the speed and commitment of the reaction to the leg).

I will note that sometimes people who focus on "more leg" really need to learn "less hand" and "more core"...So I think the "more leg" is a very rough translation of "more rider body!"

Dresseur
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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby Dresseur » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:14 pm

I think that the spirit of the memes are that riding more forward can get you out of trouble, especially as many people that I see riding tend to ride at a crawl. But if we take it literally... yes to less leg! I want a horse to respond on the first and lightest touch.

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:23 pm

That's a good point, Dresseur. So maybe those "more leg" memes are trying to say "more power!"

At any rate, I'm after more power with very little leg :-)

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:12 pm

Related to this topic, at some point someone much more experienced and talented than I am (GP rider, trainer of many FEI horses) told me, when the leg comes off/loosens it needs to mean something serious to the horse! (like "you are going to get BIG LEG (and /or the whip) if you do not leap/power forward").

That really resonated with me and whenever I think Em is not active enough, I deliberately take off my leg (because she knows she will have a big correction if her butt does not scoot forward). It's like "anti-work" but still filled with meaning and clarity for the horse.

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby demi » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:53 pm

My experience has been that sometimes "more leg" means use the leg more often, not necessarily stronger. Years ago,I had two horses that were opposite in temperament, that I rode at the same time. They were the same age, 13, when I got them. One was big boned and a little lazy the other was light boned and hot. The light horse was a simple trail horse and the heavier horse hadnt started training till he was 10 and the training he got was harsh and forced. They both learned quickly that a little "squeeze squeeze" of my leg at the girth meant to give me a little more forward energy. But during the training they both often times needed more frequent reminders.

The heavier horse would sometimes slow his tempo when I would ask for more than he was willing to offer, and then I would have to lighten the rein contact a little and give a couple of really short, quick squeezes. He would almost always go forward and then I'd let him canter when he did because he enjoyed that.

The light horse would get distracted by stuff going on around him, lift his head above the rein contact, and stiffen his back. Then I would have to give short quick squeezes with my leg while keeping the same rein contact. He usually would go back into the rein contact then.

It wasnt like giving half halts. It was really just best described as "more leg". And for the whole 4-5 years I tried doing dressage with them, they needed to be reminded often. Neither one, for opposite reasons, needed a SHARP DO IT NOW!! leg. The little guy would have had a melt down if I did that to him, and the big guy would have shut down.

I never got passed 2nd level with either, but I learned a lot and they were happy. I had them till they died, one at 26 the other at 28....

Just another viewpoint.

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby Tuddy » Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:58 pm

Sorry. I didn't mean to offend.

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby AmityBee » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:29 pm

Tuddy wrote:Sorry. I didn't mean to offend.


I really don't think that anyone was offended or really read anything more into your "more leg" intro to the training thread than it was supposed to be. I think it just hits a spot with some of us and is a very valid point to discuss. :)

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby Ponichiwa » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:25 pm

So Kiwi has always been in-front-of-the-leg horse, to the point where I rode with my legs off her barrel for a significant portion of her under-saddle career to avoid unintentional acceleration. It was only later that I realized that what she actually needed was more leg-- or, more accurately, a more honest response to the leg instead of the great leap forward.

This was made especially clear when I was schooling in the double bridle the other day. When she's honestly into both reins in the bridle, she actually gets a bit behind my leg. It's always something, isn't it.

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby Ryeissa » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:37 pm

Over use of the leg causes a multitude of problems.

The day I realized leg was a negitive, my little German heart died a bit, but I became a much better rider. Tempo with enough power, but not too much.

POWER, which comes from balance. Not driving aids.

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby StraightForward » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:26 am

I wonder if some instructors say more leg in a lesson to get the horse and rider to the level of forward and/or bend that they want, and then neglect to explain that they should be able to achieve that with lighter aids? I've been in that situation of applying more and more leg in a lesson, but there's no way I'm going to ride like that all the time, and decide I need to get the horse more forward or around my leg so I don't have to work as hard in the next lesson.
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HafDressage
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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby HafDressage » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:47 am

Tuddy wrote:Sorry. I didn't mean to offend.


OH Tuddy no you didn't offend at all!!! I was just having an internal philosophical commentary about the concept of more leg, which is currently trending on facebook...and driving me nuts There are definitely times when you need more leg and on a hotter horse I would say that the leg needs to be on much more. My objection is more to the idea that we somehow fix things by squeezing or kicking the mess out of them.

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby Chisamba » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:40 am

Do instructors really say more leg? I don't think use ever said it or been told more leg.

I've told people on hot goody horses that if a horse can get used to a blanket, they can get comfortable with a leg.

I've said drap, keep your leg under you and many such suggestions, but I don't think I've asked or taught more leg =more forward

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby Josette » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:11 am

I agree. I separate the rider position of a draped leg versus the horse's response to more forward. Learning to relax my thigh better and not be tight with my legs and ankles were necessary to improve my horse's response to leg and body aids. I can have a relaxed thigh and leg with upright centered core - then if my guy should spook I stay on. If I rode with legs off his sides I don't see how I might handle that situation - my reflexes may not be fast enough to recover my position.

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby HafDressage » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:40 pm

Chisamba wrote:Do instructors really say more leg? I don't think use ever said it or been told more leg.

I've told people on hot goody horses that if a horse can get used to a blanket, they can get comfortable with a leg.

I've said drap, keep your leg under you and many such suggestions, but I don't think I've asked or taught more leg =more forward


In the jumper world this is a VERY common sentiment. The below meme is what's floating around on facebook currently.

more leg meme.PNG
more leg meme.PNG (215.05 KiB) Viewed 876 times

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Chisamba
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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby Chisamba » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:26 pm

Yes I've seen the meme.

To teach to me to ride forward to the fence my jumper trainer put me on a 'dirty' stopper.

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby StraightForward » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:31 pm

Chisamba wrote:Do instructors really say more leg? I don't think use ever said it or been told more leg.

I've told people on hot goody horses that if a horse can get used to a blanket, they can get comfortable with a leg.

I've said drap, keep your leg under you and many such suggestions, but I don't think I've asked or taught more leg =more forward


Yes for bending not for forward so much.
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Srhorselady
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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby Srhorselady » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:18 am

Oops! I meant to respond here and instead responded inTraining. My apologies.

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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby Srhorselady » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:20 am

Oops! I meant to respond here and instead responded in goals My apologies.

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Flight
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Re: More leg? Not really...No

Postby Flight » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:37 am

I've actually had to use a lot more leg lately, but the goal isn't to have to keep on using a lot of leg. So sometimes in the training process, yes more leg :)


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