Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

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Ryeissa
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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ryeissa » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:48 am

-----
So quick update:
Saddle good so far! fingers crossed. I will be sooooo broke.
"look how cute I am"
good boy pats.
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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby kande50 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:58 am

demi wrote:. I have trouble paying attention until it’s too late. But I am finally learning, I think.


Yes, there's a learning curve for a lot of things, and figuring out how to manage advancing age is one of them. Another, which I'm getting much better at as I become more patient (with age), is about getting and staying calm (both me and my horse).

I also worry a lot about overworking my horses, because a lot of the damage doesn't show up until after it has become irreversible, and I know I'd rather do less and end up with a sound horse than use them up sooner and then have to either start over again, or try to keep a less than sound horse sounder.

I have learned how to deal with the overwork issue though, and now either take 1/2 hour instead of hour lessons, or saddle 2 horses and switch off.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Sue B » Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:35 pm

Rye, I just love Riot, and I am so happy for you that you found a dressage saddle that he likes.

SF, I too was amazed that Kyra could si all the way to Denver...glad you took a plane instead. :mrgreen:

I managed to get some sleep last night, so things are looking up. I imagine it will be awhile before I can sit in a saddle again though. I plan on getting my back x-rayed in a couple weeks in case there are any cracks/hairline fractures that I should know about BEFORE i ride again. ;) So frustrating, this is my favorite time of year for riding, fishing, hunting, everything. I hope I can at least make it to the football game Friday so I can watch ds in the marching band. They are playing Queen songs this year!

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ryeissa » Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:25 pm

Sue B wrote:Rye, I just love Riot, and I am so happy for you that you found a dressage saddle that he likes.

SF, I too was amazed that Kyra could si all the way to Denver...glad you took a plane instead. :mrgreen:

I managed to get some sleep last night, so things are looking up. I imagine it will be awhile before I can sit in a saddle again though. I plan on getting my back x-rayed in a couple weeks in case there are any cracks/hairline fractures that I should know about BEFORE i ride again. ;) So frustrating, this is my favorite time of year for riding, fishing, hunting, everything. I hope I can at least make it to the football game Friday so I can watch ds in the marching band. They are playing Queen songs this year!


yeah, I haven't bought it yet, but so far so good. I'm sorry you are injured. :x I'm glad you are getting some sleep....it is a beautiful time of the year. it was 100F over the weekend and riot was so hot being fuzzy for winter. I'm glad we are getting cooler weather.
Don't rush it! :)

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby DJR » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:19 pm

Look who is home now after 5-1/2 months away for training (3 mo in harness training, 2-1/2 mo of under-saddle training) ... Mr. Finn! He is my homebred 4 yr old Hano/Shire gelding.
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Finn
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He was started in Nov-Dec last year but it didn’t go very well as he was quite reactive and dumped the trainer 3 times. I took him home and gave him the winter off, then sent him for harness training to get him out & about, get him exposed to roads & traffic, and let him grow up more. That went very well. Then I sent him to another trainer - a western fellow - who backed another youngster of mine a couple of years ago. He had success with Finn with zero explosions.

I brought him home on Sunday and got on him right away after lunging him first. He was so good, especially considering he was fresh from being home, seeing my other horses, etc. Here he is at the walk:
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Riding Finn @ walk
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And here he is at the trot:
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Riding Finn @ trot
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I’m SO happy to be riding him now! I plan to put about 3 short rides per week on him, then give him some more time off this winter.
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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby StraightForward » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:30 pm

Sooo exciting Deanna, I remember when he was born!
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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ryeissa » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:13 pm

Hey you stole my line! I was just going to say that. I remember when he was born. We sound like proud aunties

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ryeissa » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:13 pm

I'm having one of those weeks where it just doesn't seem like I made any progress with my riding.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ponichiwa » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:23 pm

Ryeissa wrote:I'm having one of those weeks where it just doesn't seem like I made any progress with my riding.


Weeks? I'm having one of those years.

Facebook does that memories/"5 years ago, you did this thing!" prompt and this month, it showed me photos from my first season at GP with my big guy (who passed away last year, unfortunately). It does not feel like I've improved much at all in the intervening time. While there's plenty of good reasons, mostly involving work, it's still a bit disheartening.

Intellectually, I know that Kiwi is much further along now than she was 5 years ago. But progress, while incremental, is soooo slow.

That said, Queso got turned out in the big pasture today after 3 weeks of hormone quarantine after his gelding procedure, and proceeded to have 0 drama at all. What a good boy.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ponichiwa » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:41 pm

Sue B wrote:Rye, I just love Riot, and I am so happy for you that you found a dressage saddle that he likes.

SF, I too was amazed that Kyra could si all the way to Denver...glad you took a plane instead. :mrgreen:

I managed to get some sleep last night, so things are looking up. I imagine it will be awhile before I can sit in a saddle again though. I plan on getting my back x-rayed in a couple weeks in case there are any cracks/hairline fractures that I should know about BEFORE i ride again. ;) So frustrating, this is my favorite time of year for riding, fishing, hunting, everything. I hope I can at least make it to the football game Friday so I can watch ds in the marching band. They are playing Queen songs this year!


Ouch, Sue! I hope you're "just" facing bruises and not fractures. What a bummer!

DJR-- Finn looks so good. You must be over-the-moon with him!

Ryeissa-- lovely photos of Riot. He looks like such a fun horse.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Moutaineer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:56 am

Finn does look good DJR!

Rye is pretty cute.

Sue B, that really is too bad at this time of year, it's just getting nice around here (apart from the choking smoke from the vast area of this state that is on fire at the moment.)

Well, after a bit of delving with my trusty hoof pick yesterday, I finally unearthed a pea-sized rock from under the back of Laddie's shoe, and apparently the heavens are now realigned and we are sound again... phew. He's been going so well and is really starting to pack on the muscles, so I was rather glum at the prospect of another problem.

We are done with showing for this year. Not trekking all the way to Scottsdale for Regionals. I'm looking forward to a bunch of fun training opportunities over the next few months. Jane Weatherwax will be here next month, and I'll be auditing that, then Mette will be back in November, and then December brings the USDF symposium to Salt Lake City, which I intend to take full advantage of!

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Kyra's Mom » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:18 am

Oh Sue...I hope you mend quickly.

I know, I am in love with this time of year. My surgery was in July but my final follow-up isn't until Oct 12th. Of course I am taking time off work from Oct 1 through the 12th. I told my PT I was going to ride during that time off...again, only at walk. She asked if the doctor's PA said I could ride. I said no...but he didn't say I couldn't ;) . I will see how much lifting my saddle (which is well within my lifting limit) affects things but I would really like to get back on. There is that fall thing though. Kyra can get a bit over energized as the weather changes. I will see. I have another week and a half to ponder. PT has been going well and I ALMOST feel functional again.

Yep, I am glad SF didn't SI Kyra all the way to Denver. She was tired just from the lesson :lol: . However, they were getting the hang of SI to RENVER (stupid autocorrect). The weather that day was perfect to hang around and watch lessons. When SF got Kyra's motor really engaged, they looked so nice. I don't think I have ever seen her canter that 'together'. She tends to be tight in the back and just hasn't ever shown that degree of elasticity and schwung. So cool.

Great reports from every one and every one looks so good :) .

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ryeissa » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:30 pm

I'm really struggling with the hand to leg ratio on my horse riot. It feels like I keep swinging between one extreme and the other, and I'm riding a very sensitive horse.

My trainer even said that he is in the harder side of the spectrum. However I know I'm a better Rider each month. I think he's just one of those horses that either looks really green or really finished. I just have to be patient with the process, except I'm at a very expensive Barn.

I think next year I might try to do some shows if the footing is improved at our location for the recognized shows. I've been doing some clinics and jumper shows. Those have been going really well

I never liked fall so maybe part of this is just the end of the season funk. We had a lot of rain so I wasn't able to ride outside as much.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby StraightForward » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:49 pm

Landed from Denver/Renver at 5:30 last night and was at the barn within the hour. I warned DH I would be doing a drive-by and heading straight out to ride. With motivation from Sunday's lessons, and a more firm ride strategy, I had probably my best ride ever on Annabelle last night. It gave me hope that she will be ready to show first next spring. I've been a little discouraged that we were going to be hammering at training level for a lot longer, but maybe we are breaking the plateau.

She is often a sleepy type, and I had to give her a quick correction on the lunge to make it clear that she needed to get it in gear. I do a short lunge before every ride as a warmup so I can see how she is moving. That lets us get moving quickly under saddle so she isn't going to sleep and getting more and more behind the leg.

This warmup I added more rapid T/C/T transitions and got her thinking more forward, then back to lateral work in the walk, and she was much more responsive to moving her hips and shoulders for me. This let me get her into more of a SI feeling for the canter departs to the right, so we could GET the right lead and not canter around with her haunches way in, and she suddenly felt way more together and like I could get the right hind closer to the bit. It wasn't long ago that she could barely canter under saddle at all, so I'm feeling pretty happy with this today. Also playing with CC a little each ride, and it is getting a lot more controllable, though we still need more than a 20-m dressage court and use the full ~30m outdoor arena.
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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Sue B » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:16 pm

I'm in crazy pain and bored to tears when I'm not doing surgery or some other fun stuff, and so...I bought a new helmet. This time I went for a little bling. I really wanted the blue and silver one but it is no longer available, so I got this one instead. https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/ovati ... lmet-12328

Moutaineer, I'm so glad Laddie "just" had a stone in his foot and not something more dreadful.

DJR, Finn looks so handsome. How proud you must be of him.

Ponichiwa, it must be fun playing with Queso. Is Kiwi jealous?

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ryeissa » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:54 pm

Pink? :)

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby musical comedy » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:00 pm

Sue B wrote:I'm in crazy pain and bored to tears when I'm not doing surgery or some other fun stuff, and so...I bought a new helmet. This time I went for a little bling. I really wanted the blue and silver one but it is no longer available, so I got this one instead. https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/ovati ... lmet-12328
A shame about your injury. I hate reading about falls because I admit to really being afraid to fall with my osteopenia (and probably osteoporosis by now). Are you taking anything for pain? DH gets a lot of relief from Aleve.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Moutaineer » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:40 pm

Sue B, Banging your head has brought out your inner 10 year old... you'll be needing this

https://marystack.com/fleck-glitter-dre ... leck-grip/

to go with it, next :)

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby piedmontfields » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:42 pm

So nice to "see" the lovely horses represented on this board! Thanks for sharing.

Susan, I bet you are especially eager to get back in the tack after seeing SF and Kyra do such good work! Keep healing, be safe, and be smart---and soon enough we'll get your ride reports again. Your descriptions of Kyra remind me a lot of Em---although I think Emi is a tank in comparison to your ballerina girl.

On the degrees of leg and hand topic, I will say that IME there is some diplomacy needed with a mouth sensitive horse that can be different than with a more tolerant horse. Probably the worst thing my mare does when the balance of aids is off is to stop suddenly and act like "nothing can be done here." I find this is a helpful communication from her! However, if someone didn't listen to this communication and soften + adjust the hand/leg appropriately, it wouldn't take that much to get her to run backwards and/or rear.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Xanthoria » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:19 pm

Horse: Baby Bronto
Age: 6
Goals: Build strength in canter (am timing canter work every ride, trying to build up to 10 mins). Pick up correct leads. Be STRAIGHT! Create an active, marching walk. Improve walk-halt trans.

Baby Bronto had 5 days off with a suspected stone bruise. I got on last night for a short ride in the arena to see how he felt and he was Number 1 Top Student A+++ with Honors. :geek: In his mind! :lol: Anyway, I laughed the whole time, and I have to share my lovely ride with people who appreciate a horse who is really trying... er, a real trier. :mrgreen:

First, he has perfected opening and closing the arena gate, with me in the saddle. Slide the latch with nose, push open, walk through, push shut and wait for me to latch. This is slightly terrifying as means he can never be left alone in there now... and I didn't teach him this, only rewarded when he fiddled with the latch, until :idea: so, that was a mistake... :shock:

Next, after we had established Forward Walk and lots of transitions, I decided to work on canter trans and he is now so adept at them that I just say "ready?" and off we go... even if what I mean was trot, or halt, or pretty much anything else... This is exciting, as previously canter was a massive lumbering affair with a timeline and energy expenditure akin to getting the Titanic out of her dock. Now I can actually sit still and ride the canter! Huge progress there. Unfortunately he knows that a lovely soft walk-canter trans so delights me that he can stop dead after 3 strides and turn his mouth round for a treat... again, lessons learned... :?

Lastly we went for some nice halts. He really struggles with halt from the walk. Leaning, yawing, all sorts - I still haven't perfected it. We got one lovely halt and he said "And for my next trick....!" and proceeded to throw in TOF, rein backs, all sorts of clever stuff - anything but stand still - followed by begging for a treat.

The purists will slap my wrist for creating this overenthusiastic monster via treats, but he's really engaged and fun to train. We're just working on an appropriate time and place for the treats. Like: not ALL THE TIME!

Also we are going to a weenie jumping show on Sunday so he can see his first ever course of jumps. We will do trot pole course, 18" course and 2' course. Small children on school ponies will crush us. I AM READY! :mrgreen:

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby piedmontfields » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:28 pm

Xan, I am laughing so hard at BB. Y'all go show those ponies what they're missing.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Chisamba » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:48 pm

Love the pics of Riot, Laddie and Finn. Glad to hear he was super sensible Deanna. Also hope your dressage saddle works out Rye.

Hope those in pain recover quick as a brick.

I'm in rider heaven this week. My own horses and training horses have been such a pleasure to ride.

I OFTEN feel stuck. I've had Kimba for five years and am just showing second level. But I do remind myself, she was laminitic, had a broken hind leg, was a pacer who could neither trot nor canter, and I realize every ride is a victory.

I think Titanium needs dental work so an appointment is made.

I'm seriously contemplating the show MC recommendef.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby musical comedy » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:59 pm

Chisamba wrote:I'm seriously contemplating the show MC recommended.
Here's the prize list Chisamba. Good judges. If you go, I'll drive up to meet you.

http://www.buckscountyhorsepark.org/doc ... 2018091313

Who are you using for dental work? I'm really stuck needing a dentist for my mare.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby kande50 » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:08 pm

Xanthoria wrote:
Next, after we had established Forward Walk and lots of transitions, I decided to work on canter trans and he is now so adept at them that I just say "ready?" and off we go... even if what I mean was trot, or halt, or pretty much anything else... This is exciting, as previously canter was a massive lumbering affair with a timeline and energy expenditure akin to getting the Titanic out of her dock. Now I can actually sit still and ride the canter! Huge progress there. Unfortunately he knows that a lovely soft walk-canter trans so delights me that he can stop dead after 3 strides and turn his mouth round for a treat... again, lessons learned... :? ]


I teach mine the same way, but then start working on duration as soon as they figure out what I want. I did way too much walk-canter-halt with my first clicker project, but learned from it so didn't make my next one as sticky.

My problem is that I get so blown away with what I'm getting that I don't want to move on, because then I have to go through that phase where they lose what they already knew until they learn the new behavior, and I hate that part. :-(

But I'm gaining confidence that the very cool behavior I've already got won't disappear forever, even though I may feel like it has.


Lastly we went for some nice halts. He really struggles with halt from the walk. Leaning, yawing, all sorts - I still haven't perfected it. We got one lovely halt and he said "And for my next trick....!" and proceeded to throw in TOF, rein backs, all sorts of clever stuff - anything but stand still - followed by begging for a treat.


I feel your pain, and it's my own fault for being so weak and clicking behaviors off cue because they're so damned cute. I'm getting stronger though, and my training is getting better for it.

The purists will slap my wrist for creating this overenthusiastic monster via treats, but he's really engaged and fun to train. We're just working on an appropriate time and place for the treats. Like: not ALL THE TIME!


Be strong. Get it on cue. Don't let him take over. Don't reward the behavior if you didn't cue it. Get.it.on.cue. (says the worst offender who ever clicker trained a horse.) :D

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Xanthoria » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:17 pm

I can see the salacious bumper sticker now" "Clicker Trainers Get It on Cue" :shock:

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ryeissa » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:42 pm

Moutaineer wrote:Sue B, Banging your head has brought out your inner 10 year old... you'll be needing this

https://marystack.com/fleck-glitter-dre ... leck-grip/

to go with it, next :)



hahah why not? have fun with it.

you will note my turquoise t shirt matching my saddle pad in the pic above. Yes, I match my horse.....

However, being a cuuuuuuute poneeeeeee I have to be careful not to get too "my little pony" with my horse. We have to maintain our DQ-ness. (and I don't personally like pink).

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ryeissa » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:43 pm

Chisamba wrote:I OFTEN feel stuck. I've had Kimba for five years and am just showing second level. But I do remind myself, she was laminitic, had a broken hind leg, was a pacer who could neither trot nor canter



hmmmm I have none of these reasons and I'm still perpetually climbing that hill....oh well. I know we are on the right path.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby piedmontfields » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:41 pm

Xanthoria wrote:I can see the salacious bumper sticker now" "Clicker Trainers Get It on Cue" :shock:


So much fun. :D

The gate thing is disturbing, though! Oops!!! What a clever Bronto.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Xanthoria » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:15 am

I'm mildly worried he'll figure out how to open the back door of the trailer while I'm driving... he also unties himself from the tie rail, but doesn't go anywhere... yet!

And yet, he cannot halt from the walk.

:x

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby khall » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:15 am

Sue hope you feel better soon and jingles there are no fractures!
Xan your accounts of BB are hilarious. Sounds like you need to teach him tricks! He's too smart for his own good:)
DJR did you ever figure out if there was something going on with Finn? I know you had some concerns with him. Glad he is home and ready to go to work for you.
Chisamba I think we all at times feel like we are spinning our wheels.

Rip is a bit better with his RH, but since I will have him at my regular vet next week going to have him take a look at that leg and see if he can see anything. I do have the go ahead to ride lightly, but right now with the heat just not even bothering. It's so bad here in the SE the trainer where I have Gaila (who shows this weekend WD) her DH is a farrier, he left a client passed out from over heating driving and struck a tree and telephone pole. I know I've gotten off of Rip in this heat feeling light headed and nauseous. Hoping for some relief next week.

My filly is doing very well, have ordered a new girth (the stretch tech but 24 SF) and a new bit to try since I don't like the one she is wearing. Now to find someone to be here so I can get on her. Usually working horses by myself here on the farm.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Tsavo » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:24 am

khall wrote: I do have the go ahead to ride lightly, but right now with the heat just not even bothering. It's so bad here in the SE the trainer where I have Gaila (who shows this weekend WD) her DH is a farrier, he left a client passed out from over heating driving and struck a tree and telephone pole. I know I've gotten off of Rip in this heat feeling light headed and nauseous. Hoping for some relief next week.


I am at a point in my life where I WILL NOT ride in the heat. All summer I have gotten up early and rode before work. It is sometimes humid as hell but it is better than blast furnace.

If it gets hotter due to oh say global warming, I would ride at midnight if necessary to avoid the heat. I don't think it is fair to horses who are cold weather animals (except maybe Arabs).

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby khall » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:36 am

Tsavo there is a heat index scale where it is dangerous to ride horses in. I know the humidity can be just as bad as the heat (last week we had humidity from the hurricane and heat on top ick) Horses can sweat but does not evaporate and cool them. When the Olympics were in ATL in '96 they did so much research on this (where we learned ice water is ok to cool them off with ice water, but always always scrape the water off after hosing) We actually have not been too bad until this month. Last gasp of summer right before fall rolls in.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Chisamba » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:00 am

I use Diane Frack. She was trained by Bill Schultz, who I really like but he doesnt work full time anymore.

However my vet comes, does any sedation if needed, and consults on all the work.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby kande50 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:22 am

Xanthoria wrote:I'm mildly worried he'll figure out how to open the back door of the trailer while I'm driving... he also unties himself from the tie rail, but doesn't go anywhere... yet!

And yet, he cannot halt from the walk.

:x


He doesn't halt when you click?

Most clicker trainers teach a behavior chain for halt right away, because otherwise the horse slams on the brakes whenever they click and they worry that all those abrupt halts could be damaging. It's not a problem at the walk, but as soon as you start trotting and cantering you'd better be sitting when you click because the halts can be abrupt. :-)

That, and I do a lot of "go to the stationary target for your treat", because mine were slamming on the brakes and then turning to get the treat, so were stopping in a position (crooked) that make it easier for them to bend around to get the treat. So I started looking for squarer halts, clicked when I got them, and taught them to go to one of the stationary targets before I fed the treat.

I think one of the reasons it's so much fun, other than the enthusiasm, is because figuring how to get the concepts across is such a mind game. I started using it for practical reasons (scared mule who didn't respond to pressure), but got addicted.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby khall » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:15 pm

Xan have you started SI with BB? If so try halt in SI against the fence. You can also use CSI so BB is facing the fence to halt. Mark taught the halt aids as individual closing of the rein as each front foot grounds to slow the front feet down. Aim towards the fence and apply to stopping aids, using the fence as a barrier.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Sue B » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:45 pm

Xan, your stories make me laugh. I'm happy you are having so much fun with your BB. I was going to take my youngster to a little jumping show, but oh well--I hope yours goes well. :D

Moutaineer, Rye, I am soooo not a pink person, which is why I bought the helmet with pink bling. Whip is tempting too, and maybe a dark blue or black vest with a touch of pink as well? Pretty sure my horsie boys would disown me if i dressed them in pink, but purple's ok, right?

Chisamba, I often feel as though I'm going in circles (no pun intended), but when I compare videos over the years, I believe I see improvement. And, like you, I truly savor those days when riding is like heaven on earth. Y'all know those days, when you and your horse are just so tuned into each other? it's the BEST.

MC, I'm taking ibuprofen. Thank you for the suggestion about Alieve. As I approach 60 (just a youngster, I know) I have gotten more concerned about getting bucked off and injured. Reaction time and healing time are just not the same as one ages. Also the ground just keeps getting harder. ;)

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Xanthoria » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:56 pm

kande, he used to halt when I clicked, looking for a treat, but I worked that out of him as obviously that's not OK. And I definitely click and reward a good halt - actually had quite a few really great ones last night! So, we do have progress - I'm just not sure how to reliably get a great halt from the walk. What I do is:

a) Don't ask unless the walk is straight, and marching
b) Half halt
c) Ask with the seat first - sit still, slight squeeze with whole leg (vs just calf for forward) to stop the front end and drive the back end forwards
d) Use voice too
e) Reins as last resort

Last night about 2/3 of the time he did great and got lots of praise and a click, and a few treats occasionally. The rest of the time he just hit my hand and LEANED down.

Does he need a correction when he hits the hand? I mean, that itself should be a correction, right? But it obviously doesn't bother him. And I don't want to be yanking his face about, but the lean is RUDE.

Normally I'd ask for a rein back on every halt, but he finds rein back difficult with his shivers, so working on that too much feels stressful.

khall, I have started SI. I'll try that, and also like the individual closing of reins idea - I recently found BB starts his rein backs easier if the leg aid is pulsing vs steady, and I often use a pulse on both reins at the same time for trot/halt, to the trot beat: Seat aids-pulse-pulse-STOP.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:46 pm

Xanthoria wrote:The rest of the time he just hit my hand and LEANED down.
Does he need a correction when he hits the hand? I mean, that itself should be a correction, right? But it obviously doesn't bother him. And I don't want to be yanking his face about, but the lean is RUDE.


So I just rode someone's horse the other week (big draft cross) who had this habit. This is how I corrected/started to re-train.

If the horse hit the hand, I gave a quick release with the hand to "drop" them. Then I sent them energetically forward (walk/trot/canter, don't care, just go get your butt in gear). Then I re-organize, and ask nicely for a halt from a walk again. I have zero tolerance for leaning: You lean, I drop you and send you forward. It works best to do this at the first hint of a lean, not when the entire giant draft neck has gone "kerchunk" into the dirt. It is also worth only going to halt when you feel you have a good chance at nailing it. This also teaches the horse to wait for you.

First day, I repeated this exercise about 10-15 times before the horse starting believing that my pleasant halt request was for real. Second day, it took 1 time.

Basically, teaching the halt also ends up being about teaching a half halt and about stepping the hind under the body.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ryeissa » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:00 pm

Sue B wrote:Moutaineer, Rye, I am soooo not a pink person, which is why I bought the helmet with pink bling. Whip is tempting too, and maybe a dark blue or black vest with a touch of pink as well? Pretty sure my horsie boys would disown me if i dressed them in pink, but purple's ok, right?


dark purple looks good on most colors, where pink might not look good on chestnuts. riot looks great in an eggplant.
I board with teenage eventers....!!!!!!!!!!!!! its colorful.

I think it makes it a LOT easier to spot when someone takes your stuff-- hey, pink whip? MINE!

Someone rode my horse with out permission, and it was OBVIOUS who it was being one if the only pintos, and very distinctive. thank goodness.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Xanthoria » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:20 pm

piedmontfields wrote:
Xanthoria wrote:The rest of the time he just hit my hand and LEANED down.
Does he need a correction when he hits the hand? I mean, that itself should be a correction, right? But it obviously doesn't bother him. And I don't want to be yanking his face about, but the lean is RUDE.


So I just rode someone's horse the other week (big draft cross) who had this habit. This is how I corrected/started to re-train.

If the horse hit the hand, I gave a quick release with the hand to "drop" them. Then I sent them energetically forward (walk/trot/canter, don't care, just go get your butt in gear). Then I re-organize, and ask nicely for a halt from a walk again. I have zero tolerance for leaning: You lean, I drop you and send you forward. It works best to do this at the first hint of a lean, not when the entire giant draft neck has gone "kerchunk" into the dirt. It is also worth only going to halt when you feel you have a good chance at nailing it. This also teaches the horse to wait for you.

First day, I repeated this exercise about 10-15 times before the horse starting believing that my pleasant halt request was for real. Second day, it took 1 time.

Basically, teaching the halt also ends up being about teaching a half halt and about stepping the hind under the body.


I'm worried I'd teach him to view a halt request as a cue for springing forward though! Then he would never stop, and I would have to ride forever... :?

But seriously, I'll give it a try.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:30 pm

This technique does rely on the inherent laziness of a grazing animal :-) BTW, they sometimes do spring forward as you work through this. But actually, that is eventually what you want them to do in halt (be forward into the halt and bring their hind legs under themselves).

And yeah, using a solid obstacle like a fence can help some horses get the point (others jump the fence or open the gate...).

I'm sure others will chime in with techniques, too.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby khall » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:52 pm

piedmont, highly unlikely BB will jump the fence from the walk which is the gait Xan said she was struggling getting the halt from. I am well aware of possibilities of jumping fences. Mark used to want me to use the fence when Rip was in one of his I'll just take over now thank you deals, Rip is jumping lines (G line dam side, goes back to Pablo/Pilot sire side) I never quite trusted that he would not hop over my arena fence. Especially when he did jump out of the paddock one day leaving his pasture mate to follow me driving my truck out the gait!

Yes BB needs engagement for halt, why I suggested halting while in SI to engage the hind end. We practice this with the TB/Perch halts in SI. IMO the lateral work will teach BB how to listen to the seat more which is what we need as riders, horse's listening to our seat so we can use less and less rein. I agree with what Chisamba said a long time ago in response to MC, my horses need to listen to my seat and be able to do downward transitions while on a long rein, using no real rein aids.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:53 pm

I agree, shall, that what I want is for a horse to halt (and half halt) off my seat.

I actually was on the verge of degrading my comments to a "balance before movement" vs. "balance through movement" tangent. Then I realized, I'm willing to try both and see where the opening is for the horse to learn. Maybe this is because a chunk of my people came from Alsace! (not quite French, not quite German) :D

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby kande50 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:17 pm

Xanthoria wrote:
Last night about 2/3 of the time he did great and got lots of praise and a click, and a few treats occasionally.


My suggestion is that if you're not going to treat then don't click, because otherwise the click will lose its value. IOW, praise and release when we're using pressure and release; click and treat when we're using positive reinforcement.

Another clicker training hint I just learned is that the aversive (pressure) can be "charmed" by the click/treat, so it all works a lot better if we don't tack clicks and treats onto pressure and release. This is getting a little more geeky so I won't get into it, but if I'm using pressure and release I seldom click/treat now, and that's been working so much better than what I'd learned before about adding clicks and treats to the releases. So now I either click/treat *or* I use pressure and release, and Imake sure I keep them separate enough so that my horse can figure out which we're using.

I had trouble pinning anyone down to any sort of time frame (because it all depends) but one educated guess was to wait 10 to 30 seconds between pressure/release trials and click/treat trials

The rest of the time he just hit my hand and LEANED down.


IMO, Khali's suggestion is spot on. You may have to do some serious flexing and bending to soften him up once he gets braced against the hand, but I too, think that it works much better when I flex or bend into the halt. Sometimes I just start a circle when they brace against the halt, and that's sometimes enough to get them unblocked enough so that the half halts will go through.

Does he need a correction when he hits the hand? I mean, that itself should be a correction, right? But it obviously doesn't bother him. And I don't want to be yanking his face about, but the lean is RUDE.


I'm not in any way comparing your horse to a mule, but my mule doesn't appear to have very many nerve endings in his mouth, so getting a soft halt out of him when he'd rather keep going can be a challenge. He can yield from the leg though, so if I can get him to yield just a little that softens him, and then I can usually get a halt even if he'd rather not.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:02 pm

piedmontfields wrote:I agree, shall, that what I want is for a horse to halt (and half halt) off my seat.

I actually was on the verge of degrading my comments to a "balance before movement" vs. "balance through movement" tangent. Then I realized, I'm willing to try both and see where the opening is for the horse to learn. Maybe this is because a chunk of my people came from Alsace! (not quite French, not quite German) :D


I have been really struggling with the forward first or balance first, and for riot it's BOTH at the SAME TIME. He is really a horse I need to ride all 4 sides of (front back L and R) constantly, he tends to have less room for setting him up and letting him coast.
Ie- on a more luggy horse I would give leg and there would not be the "side effects" of having them rush, though a shoulder, or lean all in the first 5 steps. You could send them on and they would maintain for longer.

So last night I had an excellent ride with me working out both in my brain and body for the 50 millionth time the feel of hand to leg, not blocking and not also giving away contact. Its a lifelong thing that keeps coming back around as we move up in ability. The degrees to which I swing with my corrections is less and less.

The result of this is the long draped neck AND THE STERNUM and shoulder lifted with in a collected mid level contact. I can't forsake either engagement or balance. Too much leg with out balance means rush and fling, dropped shoulder. Too much balance with less power means jammed up neck and more tension. I think we all know these things but putting it into practice is hard.

Yes, I have been meshing French and German ideas for 3 yrs. Its been very important to making me a much better rider.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby kande50 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:06 pm

musical comedy wrote:A shame about your injury. I hate reading about falls because I admit to really being afraid to fall with my osteopenia (and probably osteoporosis by now). .


Same here, MC. I had a baseline scan when I was in my 50's and already had osteopenia, and in spite of my best efforts it has now progressed to osteoporosis. Not that the osteoporosis is necessarily what motivates me to be more careful, as I think that probably would have happened whether I had bone loss or not, because that seems to happen to everyone.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby kande50 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:44 pm

Ryeissa wrote:Ie- on a more luggy horse I would give leg and there would not be the "side effects" of having them rush, though a shoulder, or lean all in the first 5 steps. You could send them on and they would maintain for longer.


I think if that was the case everyone would be riding leggy horses, but my experience with at least one leggy individual is that he's just like any other horse in that he's perfectly willing to go go go as long as I'm willing to let him go go go on his forehand. But of course, that's not the goal.

So last night I had an excellent ride with me working out both in my brain and body for the 50 millionth time the feel of hand to leg, not blocking and not also giving away contact.


Oddly enough, the same thoughts were going through my head while I was riding yesterday. He was calm and we had a good workout, during which I was trying to decide if I thought he was balanced between my hand and leg, and if his neck had gotten too short. He was charging a bit and I was holding a bit and that made it feel like his neck was jammed, and I didn't have a camera running so now I'll never know. Next time.

The result of this is the long draped neck AND THE STERNUM and shoulder lifted with in a collected mid level contact. I can't forsake either engagement or balance. Too much leg with out balance means rush and fling, dropped shoulder. Too much balance with less power means jammed up neck and more tension. I think we all know these things but putting it into practice is hard.


I don't think there's any such thing as too much balance, but at some point we need to add more impulsion without losing the balance, and that's where there's no substitute for adequate preparation. Eyes on the ground could help too, but that's not always an option.

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Tsavo » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:37 pm

kande50 wrote:
Xanthoria wrote:
Last night about 2/3 of the time he did great and got lots of praise and a click, and a few treats occasionally.


My suggestion is that if you're not going to treat then don't click, because otherwise the click will lose its value.


I treat but don't click. :-)

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby kande50 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:40 pm

Tsavo wrote:
I treat but don't click. :-)


I do a lot of that, too. Bob Bailey calls it food chucking.

There's really no need to click unless we're shaping, or want to mark a very precise part of a behavior, because as soon as we get the behavior and get it on cue I think it's way more about the cue than the click.

The cutest one right now is our new horse, who doesn't have his first clue how to earn treats but is more than willing to do whatever it takes to get them. :-)

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Re: Don't call it fall: September/October Autumn Goals

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:31 pm

we had a major temp drop, so that was....fun? Riot was a bit more "up" but we worked it out.

My goals for this week into Oct include:
-final decision on saddle purchase- so far love it.
-get raise at work (jingles! please!)
- clinics- two different ones
- learn to drive horse trailer
- get copies of new tests
-possibly a dr. show in a few weeks doing 1st level
-not get cranky in the cold
-keep adding in the "in hand" work- got away from that when riot was over his rehab but It's fun to add back in as needed


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