spin-off: inside leg to outside rein

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Moutaineer
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spin-off: inside leg to outside rein

Postby Moutaineer » Wed Oct 24, 2018 5:49 pm

I know, the fundamental of all fundamentals. Something I thought I'd pretty much got down. (This is a bit of a rant at my own body and a cry for helpful exercises!)

I'm having a problem. And I think it all comes back to Chisamba's musings on left/right dominance. In that thread I mentioned that I am left handed and have left/right perception issues. I have a weak left leg from an old injury, and my right hip is a bit dodgy (getting older sucks.) Laddie is weaker in his right hind, for what it's worth, and has less true (through the body) bend going to the left.

Going to the right, so with my left hand as my outside rein, we've got this down. He allows me to be steady and elastic in that left outside contact to control the shoulder, soft in my right hand, bends through his body nicely, steps under with his right hind suprisingly well, looks and feels pretty accomplished.

Going to the left, things go somewhat to hell in a handbasket. He's not yielding/softening to my pathetic left leg, so my dominant left hand gets (unconciously) busy in a futile attempt to create bend, and when I try to still that and try to get a solid connection with my right hand, I get head tilt and I can see his right eye, which is a bit disconcerting in a SI... And then I start collapsing through my ribs on the left also in a futile attempt to push him over, I guess.

I don't feel like I've got a nice solid handful of horse, if you understand what I mean.

I know the feeling I am trying to achieve from what I can get going to the right, but the transference between sides isn't there, mentally or physically.

I'm focusing on stopping the collapsing, sitting very centered, square and tall and quieting the busy left hand for me, and trying to get him react better to my left leg for him--which I think are the key issues.

So any great exercises, thoughts that might clear my brain?

I'm probably making it sound worse than it looks, but it's bugging the heck out of me.

My horse should be cannonized for all the crap he has to put up with from me.
Last edited by Moutaineer on Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

heddylamar
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Re: spin-off: inside lege to outside rein

Postby heddylamar » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:20 pm

When I started riding my youngster last summer, I had similar struggles. Tracking right we were fine -- hands stayed where they should, led aids worked properly. But tracking left was a disaster. My left leg has always been a bit weak from an old hip injury, and it was being as useful as a noodle, so my inside rein was trying to do double duty ... very ineffectively.

In November, I re-injured my left hip and ended up in PT. Within weeks of starting PT, I started seeing a difference in my riding, and effectiveness of left leg. And, to fix the wandering hand, partially bridging my reins got it to quit being a busy body. My trainer was just gleeful about the self-correction!

I detailed a bunch of the exercises here.

For me, it was really about strength, then a few weeks of breaking bad habits.

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Re: spin-off: inside lege to outside rein

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:36 pm

Just a fellow traveller on the path chiming in here.

I have a similarly "handed" horse, with a weaker right hind. When I first got her, she told me I "could not touch the right rein at all, or she would die--or stop." She was sort of "fake good" at bending right, but she wouldn't let me touch her on the right. We eventually got over that! But seriously, I had to commit to a rather solid connection on the right and go through some hissy fits about what a mean person I am. I also valued time time spent with fairly equal weight in both reins. Any giving of rein was done on the left---no matter which direction. I used to use my whip exclusively on the left to help me work through this and backup my left leg.

It took time, but it is genuinely improved from where we started and my horse is much straighter. Could it improve more? Absolutely. But this is why IMO we have the ride the horse underneath us---not just a mantra of inside leg to outside rein. We have to ride all of the connections (parallel aids and diagonal aids) !
Last edited by piedmontfields on Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ryeissa
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Re: spin-off: inside lege to outside rein

Postby Ryeissa » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:40 pm

Read the Riding Doctor. seriously. its a book by Dr. Glosten

After leaving horses behind for many years to pursue her medical career, Dr. Beth Glosten decided it was time to ride again only to discover that, as a middle-aged woman, she struggled with tension, awkwardness, and an aching back. Dr. Glosten’s own frustration with riding prompted her to apply her clinical research skills to figure out what it would take to not only create the harmonious picture of horse and rider moving together, but also feel good while doing it.

In this book, Dr. Glosten shows others how best to improve their posture and position in order to prevent unnecessary physical degeneration, ensuring they can ride, and ride well, for many years to come. Readers will find basic rider anatomy that is easy to understand, as well as over 50 step-by-step exercises geared toward developing riding skills. Plus, Dr. Glosten has developed a systematic “Rider Checklist” to help you keep track of your position and function in the saddle. Throughout, case studies share rider stories that illustrate the kinds of physical challenges experienced in the saddle in midlife, and how they can be met with proactive, pain-free solutions. The result is a remarkably valuable book.


Otherwise for me it's just time, time, time. and weekly lessons. I also had to remember/still have to remember to not over-think one side of my body so I don't support the other side of the horse.

As i have mentioned several times, my riding is now in biomechanics which finally addresses these things at a more advanced level.

Asymmetry is something in my horse and I which we will always work on. I do not believe I can ever coast on my success. It will always be a tendency to manage in both of us. These are never rein issues, but finding a solution with the Sprial seat is key. It's about what side of the midline the horse is carrying his ribcage (either on a curve or straight). That will feed into the outside rein connection or lack there of.

Tsavo
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Re: spin-off: inside lege to outside rein

Postby Tsavo » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:02 pm

Wear a spur only on the left to help roll the rib cage. When it rolls he will be in the outside hand.

Bridge the reins before you ingrain the busy left hand.

Go straight-straight (not SF) down centerline. Change NOTHING except your left leg. If he ignores the ask to lift into your right hand use the whip. If he ignores that use the spur. I am saying this sounds like he is ignoring your left leg. This NOT a strength issue. Nobody should be using muscle when they use leg. It is touch - position that should be the aid. In my work with my personal trainer I do stretching and suppling exercises with leg, not mucle building. The only mucles I build are core and hamstring to bring the thigh back (i.e., position only).

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Re: spin-off: inside leg to outside rein

Postby khall » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:41 pm

How I approach this is straightening exercises both in hand and US. One of the best exercises to address this sidedness is counter SI. You can do it down the wall or on the circle. Laddie has to learn to shift the weight into the right shoulder so he can unblock the left shoulder and take up the outside rein. CSI teaches them how to shift that weight while engaging the inside hind and compressing the outside hind (teaches them to hold more on the outside hind). I like to do serpentines in SI then CSI or figure 8's SI to CSI. I do this in hand and US. Once they are comfortable in this exercise I then use renvere for straightening as well. It is just more difficult than CSI. This exercise mobilizes the shoulders so the horse can learn to shift from one shoulder to the other in work.

piedmontfields
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Re: spin-off: inside leg to outside rein

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:57 pm

I very much agree with Tsavo's suggestions here. They work! I refuse to work hard on my weak leg (I make both legs "weak" and my horse goes from that size aid).

I bet the in hand exercise works, too, but I am less skilled at that.

Moutaineer
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Re: spin-off: inside leg to outside rein

Postby Moutaineer » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:23 am

Thank you. Much to digest here. We did much better today--as with all things, I think awareness is the key first step!

I will report back.

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Re: spin-off: inside leg to outside rein

Postby exvet » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:49 am

Wow, perfect timing for this thread though to be perfectly honest I've always had similar one-sided issues (well bilateral just in a compensatory way). You can always tell 'my' horses because they all reflect my strengths and weaknesses. Since developing carpal tunnel syndrome the 'problems' have become a wee bit less prominent but they're still pervasively there. I also love Tsavo's perspective and suggestions, again, my carpal tunnel syndrome has underscored these types of issues and truths. I ride by feel and not necessarily in a good way or more to the point for me to correct my physical weaknesses/strengths an instructor has to tell me what to ride towards in terms of feel. I'm a kin esthetic learner dominantly and visual learner secondarily. You can speak to me of theory all day long and while I have a scientific mind and love theory; to translate anything into a physical reaction you have to talk to me about feel. This was more of a challenge when I was just a one side dominant rider but now with my injuries some of my dominance issues with my hands have lessened but my strong left leg is still there, LOL. This thread has given me more to think about and hopefully for the betterment of my riding so I can do Junior justice. So thank you all. I appreciate the food for thought.

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StraightForward
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Re: spin-off: inside leg to outside rein

Postby StraightForward » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:47 pm

Moutaineer wrote:Thank you. Much to digest here. We did much better today--as with all things, I think awareness is the key first step!

I will report back.


Yes, awareness, and then fighting the muscle memory. It's only been six months or so since Annabelle didn't feel like she'd crash into the wall cantering in the smaller arena most of the time. She kind of falls out both directions, but I lose her off of the OR most when we are cantering left. My instructor has been on my to let go of the inside rein and keep the connection to the OR, even if she counterbends, then just ride forward and get her off my inside leg. I think it finally sunk in after my last lesson. I've also noticed that I carry my right shoulder high - it showed up in video of my last lesson, but now I'm noticing a more subtle tendency to carry my shoulders unevenly all the time, so I'm working on correcting it. Probably has to do with too much time at a computer. Hopefully it will help me stay more even in the balance and keep my right hand from floating up, which loses the connection. When I catch myself hanging on the inside rein, I just bring my hand up/forward for a moment to test/release and then continue on.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: spin-off: inside lege to outside rein

Postby kande50 » Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:12 pm

Ryeissa wrote:
Asymmetry is something in my horse and I which we will always work on. I do not believe I can ever coast on my success. It will always be a tendency to manage in both of us. These are never rein issues, but finding a solution with the Sprial seat is key. It's about what side of the midline the horse is carrying his ribcage (either on a curve or straight). That will feed into the outside rein connection or lack there of.


Part of it for me has just been to get a good reaction to my inside leg. It took me a long time, but part of the problem was that I got obsessed with getting it next to the wall, which was effectively blocking him from yielding to it. Why it took me so long to realize that, or at least retrain it, is beyond me.

One of the reasons I've wanted to keep my horse so light on the bit is so that when I did use it to help position him I could use very light cues and hopefully avoid blocking him. But one of the problems I had with that was I then tended to want to use my hands to "help" when he didn't react sufficiently to my leg, which made for some wild hand positions. So what I had to do was revisit the problem with his response to my inside leg near the walls and in the corners until he became comfortable moving closer to them.

Now that he's more confident that I'm not trying to run him into the walls and that he needs to yield to my inside leg, I've found that I can use it to get him to shift his midsection out, which gives me the bend without having to use the inside rein. Once I have the bend then it's easy enough to get him on the outside rein, although keeping him there is an ongoing challenge. But, the more we practice, the longer he stays.


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