Good video on tense horses

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khall
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Good video on tense horses

Postby khall » Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:00 am

I have been watching Karen R's video's for a couple of months now. I've always liked her riding/working with horses just not as enamored with taking lessons from her. She is very good about advancing horses yet getting them to work with her in doing so. This just happens to be a problem horse she had taken on. Looks to me like a Iberian I do believe.

https://dnc.dressagenaturally.net/enjoy ... cFsnA__iYE

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby Kyra's Mom » Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:17 am

Boy, does that video bring back (bad) memories. Kyra wasn't quite that tense but she had the 'flamenco' dressage down pat. I wish had found her stuff back then. I can say that my riding and mind set to riding has changed a lot (for the better) since I started working with a lot of her material.

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piedmontfields
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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby piedmontfields » Sun Nov 18, 2018 1:05 pm

Yes, looks like an Iberian prancer to me :-) I've had that horse...and these techniques work! Susan, your reports on what you learned from KR have been very helpful over time.

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby demi » Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:07 pm

What a coincidence that you posted this vid, khall! A friend of mine just got a new horse, 10 yr old half-Andalusian, who is proving tense and difficult. She found him on Craigslist and he was previously a rescue. My friend is not interested in dressage but I told her about KR’s vids and she said she’d check them out. I will send her the link to the vid you posted, it is perfect for her. The new horse is a beautiful, sensitive gelding and I sure hope my friend can work things out with him.

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby Hayburner » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:29 pm

This video reminds me of my post - No Walk. It certainly has taken me more than a week to get a walk and now a nice trot. luckily, my mare did not buck, she just jigged and jigged. We are petty much past that, but when I first get on, she still wants to Go. What has worked is really bending her and working with Cones.

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby Chisamba » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:43 am

I wonder how much they edited out to show it working. This method is very old and extensive used, but limited in it's useful because an anxious horse can get just as happy running sideways as it did jigging forward

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby kande50 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:58 pm

Hayburner wrote:This video reminds me of my post - No Walk. It certainly has taken me more than a week to get a walk and now a nice trot. luckily, my mare did not buck, she just jigged and jigged. We are petty much past that, but when I first get on, she still wants to Go. What has worked is really bending her and working with Cones.


I normally ride a couple of primarily clicker trained horses who like hanging out at the mounting block because they always get treats there (because the last thing I need is a horse who is in a hurry to get going when I'm getting on). So my clicker trained horses tend to be reluctant to leave the mounting block, and always start out slow just in case I might click. It's kind of funny, because they're both spooky, reactive horses, but when they're feeling safe they're both kind of pokey.

But we have a new(ish) trail horse who I don't clicker train under saddle very much because he was already as trained as we needed him to be when we bought him. But I do feed him treats at the mounting block because I want to teach him where I want him to stand, and I don't want him rushing off when I'm half on. So now he's mostly got the part about standing at the mounting block, but is apparently still tense, because when I do ask him to move off he starts out fast and then rushes for awhile before he settles in.

Several years ago I probably wouldn't even have noticed the rushing, but because my other horses are so calm and deliberate about moving off I do notice how tense this new guy is.

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:51 pm

Chisamba wrote:I wonder how much they edited out to show it working. This method is very old and extensive used, but limited in it's useful because an anxious horse can get just as happy running sideways as it did jigging forward


yeah, I can follow the logic in the video, but I guess I would have to think about this some more.... I just don't know if teaching sideways is good. I suppose if its the lesser of two evils and you don't die that is important... I don't ride these dangerous horses so I guess I'm not the best person to ask.

I've always been taught to slow the energy and "change" it to something more positive, rather than let it persist at this level/just sideways. I don't like how they removed the bit- not that I have a problem with bitless- but halfway though they changed it up. Show me start to finish with a bit please! That is adding in too many variables. The horse could be just reacting to that edit, not the training program as described

My horse is not dangerous, but very very tense, but besides finding the right instructor to help me learn, I haven't had to waver from classical principles.

The grey horse to me is a problem horse, not "tense" as I would label... Its claustrophobic and explosive, poor thing. I am glad they could help the horse- very nice ending!

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby piedmontfields » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:27 pm

Wow--that is some perspective, Rye. I would consider the little grey in the video kind of a standard issue tense horse. Chisamba, I hear your point that this is an old/simple strategy and not complete in itself.

p.s. This is why I have eventers or jumpers ride my horse when I am out on travel---not dressage people (unless they are quite skilled). The eventer-jumper types are unphased by tension or energy and will just send it sideways/forward/whatever as needed! And with change my horse can be tense (even though she looks like a total doll 90% of the time).

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby Xanthoria » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:51 am

I might have considered lungeing that horse in side reins for a while - he was having enough trouble with accepting the bit, let alone with a rider on top. He really needs to go forward, and the sideways was frustrating him? But perhaps there's more to the story.

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:58 am

piedmontfields wrote:Wow--that is some perspective, Rye. I would consider the little grey in the video kind of a standard issue tense horse. Chisamba, I hear your point that this is an old/simple strategy and not complete in itself.

p.s. This is why I have eventers or jumpers ride my horse when I am out on travel---not dressage people (unless they are quite skilled). The eventer-jumper types are unphased by tension or energy and will just send it sideways/forward/whatever as needed! And with change my horse can be tense (even though she looks like a total doll 90% of the time).



Interesting! this to me is not a horse I would ride. No way. He was bolting off, that is not acceptable. Violent tendencies, even.

Tension in "normal" horses to me: loss of rhythm, coming above the bit, getting wiggly/crooked, tossing head a touch, but never leaving the line of travel or protesting the aids to this degree.

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby khall » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:28 am

Karen R does not lunge in SRs ever. She does use bitless a good bit, has developed her own bitless bridle but will also ride horses in snaffles or doubles when they can accept the bit happily. She has a couple of her own that only ride bitless or bitless with curb, her own take on a double.

As for this particular horse the bit could have caused some of the tension which is why KR put him in a bitless bridle. IMO he looks so much more relaxed in the later part of the video. Like a different horse. KR does an excellent job of training her horses (and those that she takes in for training) on up the levels. From unstarted to FEI work. She uses unconventional means in her work incorporating ground work, some WIH though different than WIH I was taught by Mark R, liberty (she even does liberty piaffe work) and on line/long line but never uses auxiliary tools like SRs or any confining, positioning tools. Her video library has some great videos on a wide range of material. I've gotten a good bit out of it.

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:40 pm

khall wrote:Karen R does not lunge in SRs ever. She does use bitless a good bit, has developed her own bitless bridle but will also ride horses in snaffles or doubles when they can accept the bit happily. She has a couple of her own that only ride bitless or bitless with curb, her own take on a double.

As for this particular horse the bit could have caused some of the tension which is why KR put him in a bitless bridle. IMO he looks so much more relaxed in the later part of the video. Like a different horse. KR does an excellent job of training her horses (and those that she takes in for training) on up the levels. From unstarted to FEI work. She uses unconventional means in her work incorporating ground work, some WIH though different than WIH I was taught by Mark R, liberty (she even does liberty piaffe work) and on line/long line but never uses auxiliary tools like SRs or any confining, positioning tools. Her video library has some great videos on a wide range of material. I've gotten a good bit out of it.



yeah, its just hard to tell if its the sideways technique or the bit change that leads to the transformation. I have no issue with bitless but as someone who is trying to understand this approach this muddies the waters. Anyways, thanks for sharing.

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Chisamba
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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby Chisamba » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:29 am

So several things in this video I perceive differently. First let's address the anti "tools" . It doesnt matter that the riders hands look like she is wielding drumsticks banging on a drum bouncing around constantly, because omg at least they are not calm consistent quiet sidereins.

Second The bridle was changed, the amount of sweat on the horse is inconsistent, but the video claims the method is what worked.

Third If you just pay me, I can show you the whole thing and the secret of "natural" training. Guess what, not a single thing about getting on a horse and riding it is natural.

Anyway. I know several people really enjoy her training method, and that is ok, if she helps people with difficult horses, that is brilliant and admirable.

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby khall » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:03 pm

Chisamba give it a break on the SRs issue. There are some of us on here who don't feel the need to use such tools and for some reason it offends you. I've seen the work KR does with her horses with no SRs, it is very correct with a wide variety of horses. The rider in this video is not KR, I don't know who she is, but you cannot deny that the horse made drastic changes from the first part of the video to the last. Was it just because of the sideways, probably not since they did take the bit out. I am sure though there was positive reaction by using the technique.

As for paying into her video classroom, I and others have found good help there. If you have never seen any of her videos other than this small piece of one, then you really don't have a way to judge what value or not she would have to you. I have both seen her ride in person, ridden with her with my own horses and have watched many videos over the years. I get the most out of the videos. I enjoy her use of non conventional techniques which include on line without SRs, liberty, in hand, bridle less and/or bareback as well as saddle bridle. You can see her progression with all of her horses in her video classroom. Those horses include NSH, PREs, Oldenburg and other WBs. All work 3/4 th and FEI with some knocking on the door of GP (which KR has competed at in her time before she found NH) none are what you would call incredibly talented for the work except her one PRE mare. KR really emphasizes the relationship she has with the horses, which I admire. Yet she is quite demanding of the work her horses do. It is inspiring to see her work with the horses getting piaffe at liberty or to watch her ride bareback in passage (she is a beautiful rider).

KR has a following all over the world. She draws both from the NH and dressage riders (usually those who have run into issues in "regular" dressage world) Cudos to her for finding a way to make a good living doing what she loves to do.

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby Ryeissa » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:37 pm

khall wrote:Chisamba give it a break on the SRs issue. There are some of us on here who don't feel the need to use such tools and for some reason it offends you. I've seen the work KR does with her horses with no SRs, it is very correct with a wide variety of horses. The rider in this video is not KR, I don't know who she is, but you cannot deny that the horse made drastic changes from the first part of the video to the last. Was it just because of the sideways, probably not since they did take the bit out. I am sure though there was positive reaction by using the technique.

As for paying into her video classroom, I and others have found good help there. If you have never seen any of her videos other than this small piece of one, then you really don't have a way to judge what value or not she would have to you. I have both seen her ride in person, ridden with her with my own horses and have watched many videos over the years. I get the most out of the videos. I enjoy her use of non conventional techniques which include on line without SRs, liberty, in hand, bridle less and/or bareback as well as saddle bridle. You can see her progression with all of her horses in her video classroom. Those horses include NSH, PREs, Oldenburg and other WBs. All work 3/4 th and FEI with some knocking on the door of GP (which KR has competed at in her time before she found NH) none are what you would call incredibly talented for the work except her one PRE mare. KR really emphasizes the relationship she has with the horses, which I admire. Yet she is quite demanding of the work her horses do. It is inspiring to see her work with the horses getting piaffe at liberty or to watch her ride bareback in passage (she is a beautiful rider).

KR has a following all over the world. She draws both from the NH and dressage riders (usually those who have run into issues in "regular" dressage world) Cudos to her for finding a way to make a good living doing what she loves to do.


But this isn't karen in the video, right? I'm getting confused about how this relates?

I can't see progression you speak of because her content is behind a subscription wall.....

she wanted to charge us 2000 to buy her "program" after I subscribed to her webanair. It was basically an infomercial so it was of no practical use. it sort of rubbed me the wrong way, I don't have that kind of money for a program. I still don't get her basic philosophy which is too bad because I like a lot of what she talks about.

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby khall » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:05 pm

Rye, No this is one of KR's students, a pro who had this horse in training. KR's video classroom is IMO a good value. $24 per month and she puts up new videos each month. There are years worth of videos to watch.

I did buy into one of her programs but did not get much out of it. By far I get the most out of her video classroom to the point I have even thought about going back and riding with her again some.

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Re: Good video on tense horses

Postby Ryeissa » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:53 am

khall wrote:Rye, No this is one of KR's students, a pro who had this horse in training. KR's video classroom is IMO a good value. $24 per month and she puts up new videos each month. There are years worth of videos to watch.

I did buy into one of her programs but did not get much out of it. By far I get the most out of her video classroom to the point I have even thought about going back and riding with her again some.


I'm glad you found something that works for you!


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