"Revving up" "Engaging" "Energizing" the Canter: Your approaches

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piedmontfields
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"Revving up" "Engaging" "Energizing" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:28 am

Now that I've spent 6 months improving *my canter* (seat), I'm lately focussed on how to quickly turn my mare's working canter into the canter I need for changes. Yes, I have learned that I need a certain quality of canter for a good, clean, jumpy change.

So far, here is what seems to be working:
-Counter canter with energy and straightness, including 20 m circles
-Tall-ish cavaletti
-Frequent and even abrupt walk-canter-walk or halt canters
-More extreme rubber band work at canter (like collect 1-2-3-4-5-6 strides through a corner and then extend through the short side and repeat)

What works for you? For you experienced folks who have been done this path, does what I'm doing make sense or what else would you suggest?
Last edited by piedmontfields on Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dresseur
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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby Dresseur » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:39 am

Personally, what I've been taught, and what I've experienced has shown me to not do too much counter canter if you're going to start working on changes. What you need is for the hind legs to jump closer together so that the horse doesn't need to make a huge movement behind to switch it's hips.
I'm fairly convinced that Andrea can teach a goat to do changes, and I've seen some very, very difficult cases be taught to do clean changes based on these techniques.

- Forward and back in the canter to make sure that the horse is listening to the seat and leg. The response must be instantaneous.
- Walk/Canter/Walk transitions. These don't have to be perfect, but should be uphill and relatively prompt.
- On the spot collections - again, not perfect, but you want the hind legs to come together as opposed to taking a huge step. It actually feels a bit incorrect - but again, in order for a horse to execute the change properly, it has to be easy for them to switch their hips. A huge stride is problematic in many horses. These seem to be the most important test - if nothing changes in the hind legs, there are almost guaranteed issues in the changes.
- In the patterns, you can try simple diagonals, demi volte to half pass to change, figure 8's... they all have their place and all trouble shoot different things.
- If the horse has zero inclination to actually switch the legs, you can experiment with tapping behind with the whip to make the hind legs jump together. For Willie and Miro, for whatever reason, the whip to the outside worked until they figured it out, and then I could take that away. But usually, tapping on the new inside works better because they'll contract that side in response to the whip.

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:42 pm

Dresseur wrote:- On the spot collections - again, not perfect, but you want the hind legs to come together as opposed to taking a huge step. It actually feels a bit incorrect - but again, in order for a horse to execute the change properly, it has to be easy for them to switch their hips. A huge stride is problematic in many horses. These seem to be the most important test - if nothing changes in the hind legs, there are almost guaranteed issues in the changes.


Great summary. This point is well taken.

This is probably a really dumb question but here goes. At this point, I still have to make sure the canter has a change in it fairly deliberately. My term is rev up the canter, but more accurate would probably be to say increase engagement and power in the canter. At some point (some horses, some riders), I am thinking that the single change is just "there" in the canter any time, because the canter has improved. Is that the progression you have witnessed?

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby Dresseur » Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:53 pm

It's tough, because it is horse dependent. You don't actually want too much power in the canter, because then you risk it all going into your hands. For the first changes - the hind legs should be quick and almost together, you almost never do your first changes out of a regular canter. But then eventually, the collection becomes part of the set up for the change, and then yes, the canter seems to take on the quality of always having a change in there. When people try to do the first changes out of a "normal" canter, they tend to be late behind.

Edited to add, in really tough cases, you can do other things to quicken up the hind legs. And in this case, I literally mean quicken. She has this friesian in training right now to teach changes. This horse had zero, and I mean ZERO talent for changes. It was quite fascinating to watch over the course of several months. What she does first is to test the horse to see if when she collects or brings the horse back, will it close up the distance in the hind legs or quicken the rhythm. Again, this is a bit incorrect in the scheme of things, but to date, I've not seen it not work, and none of the horses are stressed about the changes. If the horse does nothing, she will tap it behind to see if she can get an effect. This horse did NOTHING behind. It was quite amazing. If anything, he got slower. She felt that if she continued to ask for this in the canter, it would affect him mentally - so, she taught him piaffe to teach him to move the hind legs in response to the whip. 3-4 months later, the horse is doing clean changes, no stress. But the horse had to first be taught to literally quicken his hind legs and to jump them closer together so that it would be a small movement to switch the hips.

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:46 pm

Thanks for these notes and descriptions. My sense is that the counter canter work helps us with establishing adequate collection---that is why it is useful as a set up. Also, our CC work is more about any lead, any time than a single pattern (ex. loops as performed in a particular test).

I know what you mean about power landing in your hands, but that is generally not an issue with my mare. She is not a big powerful mover by nature, though. But the point about keeping the hind legs closer together so that it is not such a huge hip switch is really interesting. I appreciate you laying that out so clearly.

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby Dresseur » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:06 pm

I'm sure you've heard it before, but when the horse gets so comfortable with CC, it can be an ordeal to convince them that you want something else. You almost want them to be uncomfortable on the wrong lead as you head into changes, so that when you collect on the "wrong" lead, they want to jump over. But, I've also seen that different things work for different horses. Changes are incredibly unique to horse and rider combos.

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:18 pm

Yeah, I do get the way CC work can get in the way introducing a new idea (FC). Which is why a few years ago I just went right to changes once the canter felt okay. There was some success with that approach---but then I ended up being unable to do a change on demand in a specific location. This is why smart people have experienced trainers/riders teach their horses changes. LOL

I realized that I had been getting lucky and only getting good changes when all things in the universe happened to come together. I was not creating the situation. So I went back to improving me, then improving her canter so that I could change her canter on demand (CC was part of that) to make it "clean change capable". I would say that she is not so comfortable in CC that she wants to stay there endlessly---especially on a circle! But she is more balanced than one typically sees in a second level test.

Of course, this is me experimenting and testing approaches out over time----not the best way to train, but it's what I got (time and a willing mare).

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby Dresseur » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:09 pm

Ah! In that case, make the set up be part of the cue for changes. At first, the horse is not on the aids and the change happens when it happens. If you keep the set up the same, collect, then change, the horse starts to understand that the collection is part of the set up and they will start to anticipate the changes. Once they start anticipating, then you start asking them to wait, so they start listening to your hip/back or whatever aid you are teaching. The difference in the canter quality will be how you get your tempis. The canter for singles, 4s and even 3s can be biggish- a normal collected canter.

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:15 pm

This is very helpful! Emi loves having a clear set up as a cue. She hates when I ambush her (which I have also done in the past). Bad trainer :-(

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby khall » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:26 pm

Thanks Dresseur that is some good information there! Now to implement it a bit:) Rip has gotten too comfortable in the CC unfortunately.

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby Josette » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:46 am

Revving up is easy for us lol! My guy tends to anticipate so I try to focus on exercises to get him focused and not revved up.

Dresseur - quick question regarding the power going into the hands. How do you recommend correcting or discourage this response? I've just tried experimenting with going back to trot and switching between SI and HI. So wondering if that approach is reasonable to get his attention and change things up. I do apply HHs and am pretty strong with my body - my seat is plugged in and I can use it. I have to say I love the power when he trots but just need to get a little less in my hands.

(edited to say - I don't mean I am driving him forward with my seat but quietly following and can half halt with my seat.)

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby Dresseur » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:35 pm

This seems to be a bit of a catch 22, because in order to ask for more, sometimes you are asking before the horse is capable of sustaining or holding it themselves, the horse naturally goes a bit into the hand. So, what I try to do, and what I've been taught to do is to add a bit at a time and then go back to normal power. And, lots and lots and lots of transitions. I thought that I was doing a lot of transitions before - but riding some of the young horses for Andrea that are just learning changes and just learning to power things up gave me a whole new appreciation for how many transitions need to be done. These are done within movements as well.

The other thing is to make sure that you are actually releasing. My personal habit is to fudge the release a little, which means that instead of the horse carrying themselves, I end up with incrementally more in my hand until the whole balance gets terminal. So, I have to remind myself often that the release is the most important part of the hh.

You can also do in hand work to great effect if you are comfortable with using those techniques.

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby Josette » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:11 pm

Dresseur - thanks for your feedback - this is very helpful. I do lunge him on days off when I am unable to ride (no indoor) to help with fitness. we do Lots of c-t-c transitions on lunge that I attempt to carry over to rides. I hear you about the release too as he can sometimes be tricky curling. So I can get some nice carrying contact as we improve balance and self carriage.

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby Dresseur » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:41 pm

Trot/halts are the best remedy (imo) for a lot of this stuff. Both for fitness and for not leaning on the hand.
To paraphrase the Duke of Newcastle, “the whole object of the dressage horse is to get the horse upon the haunches, and let me tell you the best exercise I know: that is to trot and stop, to trot and stop.”

When this exercise is done correctly, the hocks should be in front of the point of the buttock (not buried in the tail), and there should not be steps of walk in between the trot and the halt. Through repetition (passively unyielding hands) the horse will progressively stop with less and less weight on the reins, as it balances the weight to the hind. Imo if done correctly, this can have almost more value than teaching piaffe, because young, weak or inexperienced horses can practice the movement and through that, they begin to develop the muscles and technique necessary for collection, and the strength necessary to not lean on the hands.

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby Josette » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:57 pm

Thank you again Dresseur - I've been doing t/w/t but not trot/stop/trot. Another valuable exercise that I forgot to try.

edited to add - just got back from riding this exercise and it was a work out. There was leaning going on even though we could get the transitions. Some bracing and not wanting to soften at halt. We will certainly be repeating this exercise every ride until there is significant improvement.

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Re: "Revving up" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby piedmontfields » Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:06 pm

Fun to read the reports! I focused on just getting the good canter quickly today and keeping it---not fussing with the FC request yet. Because from that good canter, I can then "rev up"/energize just a bit more for the clue that we are going to FC I think?...we shall see!

The benefits of focussed canter work were very evident in improved trot work afterwards :-)

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Re: "Revving up" "Engaging" "Energizing" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby Dresseur » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:53 am

It is fun to hear updates! Especially as my riding time is severely reduced right now :(

For the trot/halts, it’s normal to have horse in your hand at first- this is where you need to be like side reins. If you give in the moment of transition, they learn they can pull through you. If you pull back, it shortens the neck and doesn’t really address the haunches. Passive hands and a firm back and thigh to anchor you.

If you continue to feel no change in the transitions in terms of improvement, do the halt as a pause. So the horse immediately has to regather (or stay gathered in the first place ;) and move off. Some horses get really hot with this though, so depending on your horse, this could back fire.

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Re: "Revving up" "Engaging" "Energizing" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby mari » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:12 am

This is a great thread!

Odie has a huge slinky canter, but he is lazy lazy lazy. We often do a warm-up in walk with my instructor cuing for very collected walk/halts and half-steps from the ground, me on top. And to get softened back and even more hind engagement we do si/renvers/travers in this very collected and engaged walk, still with her (and a whip!) on the ground. The canter after a few minutes of this is pretty amazing.

I like c/w/c as well, but with as few steps of walk as you can manage. Really gets them thinking "jump", instead of flattening into the walk transition, because they have to be up and engaged and ready for the next canter transition.

And on days where we start with that hovering, proppy straight-legged canter, with the neck bobbing up and down, there is some sharp whip and spur reminders about what it means to move forward. Light touch of the leg means gallop, NOW. It's a bit hairy bringing them back if they're not practiced at it, but it's something I use often. Forward a LOT for a few strides, back a LOT for a few strides. After a few repeats, it's easier for us to find a pinging working-but-more-collected canter.
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Re: "Revving up" "Engaging" "Energizing" the Canter: Your approaches

Postby piedmontfields » Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:12 am

Tonight, I introduced Lauren Sprieser's idea for quick canter departs from a whip.
(see https://practicalhorsemanmag.com/traini ... lean-28593 )

After some bucks and kicks, Em got the idea very quickly and the canter quality was nicely revved up and the reactivity was at the necessary level. We shall return to this again and see if it can be a tool for the FC (a la DJR's success with Jet).


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