Short necks versus long necks

[HafDressage]

One thing I don't think has been discussed much on these boards is how neck length affects training issues. So I thought I might start the convo on it.

I was always told that you want a horse with a long neck, but I have to say, my horse has a shorter thicker neck and now that I have it, I think I prefer it. Relative to horses with a longer neck, he very rarely curls or comes behind the bit and if he isn't on the bit, he is above the bit, which I always think is a preferable problem to curling. Probably the main draw back is that his neck can be quite strong if he wants to use it against me, but regardless I think it is a good tradeoff.

Those are my thoughts on it, what do you guys think about longer versus shorter necks? Do you agree with traditional logic on this conformation trait?

[redsoxluvr]

Long necks are harder, IME. Definitely harder. Mr. Perfect is 16H and very close coupled. He is far easier to ride than my dear late Deuxdle, who was 17H high and 17H long. Deuxdle had more length of stride, but just the sheer length of his entire being made him much harder to ride.
Mr. Perfect is ten times more spooky than Deuxdle, but he is still easier physically.

He did use his neck as a weapon, too. He definitely could get very strong and just be taxing to ride.

[mari]

I like shorter, more compact horses generally. But not specifically because of how easy/difficult they are to ride, as I don't have all that much experience with different body types. I just find it more pleasing to look at

[musical comedy]

I agree that long necks are more problematic. Of course, the way they are set-on makes a difference too. While it could be coincidental, I've noticed that the modern warmbloods have a head-to-neck connection (for lack of a more appropriate term) that encourages a break at the 3rd vertebrae. I think that's why you see so many that look like that. It's not intentional in the riding, as so many think. I'm a neck person, in that this is one of the first things I look at when viewing a conformation photo of a horse to buy. That, and a smooth topline with no funky angles.

I've probably passed on a lot of nice horses because the split second I see a sales video with that break at the poll, I move on. That's because I know just how difficult it can be..

[Chisamba]

It used to be a selling point, with me, if some one came to look at one of my horses and said, short neck. i would say, so much easier to ride. i would get a sort of big eyed stare until i pointed out the advantages. If all other things were equal, ie, connection, shape, and angle of attachment at the shoulder, i would find the shorter neck easier to work with.

as some one up there said, ^ there are other things than length to consider, but slightly shorter is better than long, in my opinion.

said as the current owner of three long necked girls, lol

[kande50]

I agree that long necks are more problematic. Of course, the way they are set-on makes a difference too. While it could be coincidental, I've noticed that the modern warmbloods have a head-to-neck connection (for lack of a more appropriate term) that encourages a break at the 3rd vertebrae. I think that's why you see so many that look like that. It's not intentional in the riding, as so many think.

I don't think the break at the 3rd is in any way intentional, but is just a side effect of insisting on contact and btv.

A lot of horses are very sensitive, and especially in the mouth, and trainers somehow have to teach them to push on the bit relentlessly so that the reins won't go slack. And not only do they need to learn to do it in a snaffle, but eventually in a curb, too. Preventing the curb rein from going slack on a sensitive horse takes a lot of desensitization, and insistence upon a firm contact with the bit, and I think that both btv and broken at the 3rd are just side effects of that.

I'm sure there are plenty who just mimic btv and broken at the 3rd because they see so much of it they think it's deliberate, but I kind of doubt that most are doing it deliberately, and especially not broken at the 3rd?

[galopp]

Having a longer and higher set neck (within limits) means having a better 'balancing rod' with the entire body, so traditionaly it is considered more desireable for ease in training. When the longer neck has a thinner throatlatch there is easily a problem in training in that the horse can be precipitously flexed/shortened way too easily. By the same token a short neck can be more stiff laterally, and is generally not desired because the hroses are less supple lateral. Indeed how the neck rises out of the shoulders is interesting too. A higher neck must be ridden more out and open for a longer period of time to properly counter balance the body (ie arabs/friesan/etc), and a lower neck must be asked to be lifted, but still open, for the same reason. And all with lots of breaks to relax.

Imho many people do not even understand how longitudinal flexion comes into being progressively through lateral flexibility, and deliberately create shortened necks with preciptious flexion at the atlas/axis. (After all if people do not understand where the poll is, or that the horse must be ifV, they are not likely to see the middle of the neck being the highest point as an error. )

[oldhag]

It's not the length of the neck which might be a problem. It's the whole package. Conformation, temperament, movement, willingness to go.

[Koolkat]

It's not the length of the neck which might be a problem. It's the whole package. Conformation, temperament, movement, willingness to go.

I agree. I have a mare with a short neck, and when I got her (green 6 year old), it was tending toward upside down (from Abgar line). But otherwise, she was extremely balanced and athletic and found moving sideways easy. So, she was an easy horse to train in most ways.

That being said, the downside of a short neck is that you can never fake the horse being out to the bit. . .

On that note, use to see a mare day to day with a topline to die for. She would trot around pretty as picture, head right where it should be, but she was never "activated" over the topline, but she sure looked good doing it.

Rode another mare with a long neck that naturally wanted to be on her forehand. Gads, she always felt like that bird you put on the side of the glass that dips water. It felt like 80% of the horse was falling out/down in front of you.

Never had the luxury of riding a horse that was "just right" out of bed in the morning. . .

I trust the OP is not referring to the fact that you always want to ride a horse with a "long neck" as in out to the bridle.

[Ganas]

Sounding like a broken record here... There's a cool reference in The Rider Forms The Horse about this. It mentions the back:neck ratio and how the combinations affect training. I'd say it was right on, IME.

[Kathy Johnson]

I also think the conformation of the throatlatch makes a big difference. If there is not at least two fingers between the mandible and the temporal bone, it can be difficult, if not painful, for the horse to come on the bit correctly. This is fairly common with short, thick necks. If it's hard for the horse to come round naturally, they will find seek a more comfortable, incorrect place.

Snake necked horses are trickier to ride, being so supple that they can also find an endless variety of places to hide behind the bit. I find strengthening the hind end is and focusing on engaging that back to be most help with these.

[Rosie B]

I have ridden both long necked and short necked horses. My last horse (Prussia) was short through the neck and body. My current horse (Bliss) is super long and snaky through the neck with a normal length body. I also got to ride my mom's 13.2 hand Fjord pony yesterday, and she is the epitome of a short necked horse.

In general, I find short necked horses easier to ride. I'll probably get some flak for saying this but you can get away with too heavy of a contact (and other sins) with a short necked horse simply because it's more difficult for them to overbend and go behind the bit. On the other hand, it's also harder for them to fake an outline, so your disconnected moments will not look pretty.

With a long necked horse like Bliss, it's so easy for him to go behind the bit I have to ride very carefully to prevent him from doing that. He can break at any point along his neck, so it's much more difficult to ride. Then again, he can easily fake a connection and continue to look lovely while doing so.

And in general, the feel that Bliss gives me in the hand when he's going well is super soft compared to the short necked horses I've ridden. And he's much more supple laterally as well.

[angela9823]

Much rather ride a short necked horse! I find the horses with longer necks also tend to be a bit on the hotter side. I always said the shorter necked shorter coupled horses seem to act more like dogs where as the wiry animals act and move more like cats. I like the look of the thicker (through body) shorted necked beasts in general too. They seem in general more on the lazy and consistent side. I know...I'm over generalizing here by body type but it has just been my observation.

[galopp]

Short necks are much more difficult to use well when collecting (esp with thick necks and heavy jaws), and then to extend them is problematic (the horse will tend to be more rigid). Long necks (esp with thin throatlatches)take longer (pardon the pun) to sutain a connection (hence often too compressed/coming precipitously to flexion/even btv), but trained methodically they are in the end more collectible and extendable. This shows up the most when jumping horses of both types, the later can offer and allow a much better bascule and a fuller stride. Either body type in excess presents balancing problem.

[Chisamba]

i do not think its harder for a shorter necked horse to extend its neck, it is simply not as obvious.

[angela9823]

Short necks are much more difficult to use well when collecting (esp with thick necks and heavy jaws), and then to extend them is problematic (the horse will tend to be more rigid). Long necks (esp with thin throatlatches)take longer (pardon the pun) to sutain a connection (hence often too compressed/coming precipitously to flexion/even btv), but trained methodically they are in the end more collectible and extendable. This shows up the most when jumping horses of both types, the later can offer and allow a much better bascule and a fuller stride. Either body type in excess presents balancing problem.

I always thought the shorter body types were easier to collect. When I think of the PREs for instance, they tend to be better at the collection whereas the longer horses in general seem to be better at extensions??

[Welsh]

I find this subject really interesting - my horse has a long neck but he naturally has a very high head carriage as it ties in quite low. He seems to suck it back towards his withers so the underside bulges and lengthens and his back hollows. He is a very reactive tense person by nature.

I worked a lot on getting him relaxed and long & lower when I bought him and thought I had done a pretty good job but we started to plateau again at 2nd level so for the past 4 weeks I have gone right back to basics again.

We've just been riding long and low, forward, SI to HI in walk, big loops and serpentines whilst concentrating on maintaining an even contact and getting only the amount of flexion and bend we actually need as he tends to give too much bend in the wrong places. I am amazed at how much neck he actually has and the difference it makes when have got everything aligned and relaxed properly before I put my leg on and ask for more impulsion.

It has also made me realise that he needs longer to build the strength so he can raise his front without sinking the base of his neck down and pulling back towards his withers - even slightly will disrupts everything.

It feels like I have had to deal with every possible issue terms of bracing, being above bit, BTV, uneven contact, slight head tilt on one rein, too much bend at the base of the neck on the other, just being incredibly wiggly ...but it has been a fantastic training opportunity for my riding and developing sense of feel and when we get it right it is unmistakable.

I definitely wouldn't be put off a long neck again although I would try to find one that was set on a bit better if possible.

[Ponichiwa]

From a physics perspective, longer necks mean more strength is required to keep the same relative position. Which is why so many long-necked horses curl or duck or get crooked in the bridle: they're not strong enough to hold themselves out there. They can be very hard to un-kink once they learn how and where to avoid contact.

Meanwhile, my pony has a pretty short neck. She's also super tricky in the contact. Some horses just are that way regardless of their conformation.