When you develop a new standard for a gait...

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piedmontfields
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When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:19 pm

I have been thinking about this for several weeks, and Rosie's post about Bliss's canter progress was such a great example that I'm now trying to put this into words.

It is kind of a weird process when your horse is ready for a "new normal" for a given gait. You've spent time developing the strength and understanding of what could shift (balance, carrying, energy, straightness, etc.)---and now you just expect it because they are ready to deliver that new gait on a routine basis. It becomes your new base trot or canter for example.

What has that been like for you going through that process? And do you feel like you do it again and again, as "normal" changes (that is my small experience)? Do you ever bobble between expectations/standards? How do you maintain clarity?

Thanks for your reflections!

Piedmont + Emi (who now has more trots than I ever imagined possible...)

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby Moutaineer » Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:59 am

An old trainer of mine used to call it "peeling the onion." Every time you get to a good layer, get it down, and think you are the shizz, you find there's another layer underneath, and become dissatisfied with what you've got.

And it doesn't matter how advanced you are, or your horse is, there's always more to seek for and find.

As far as bobbling backwards and forwards, yes, I think that does to some degree happen--if you take time off, one of you has an injury, loses fitness or confidence for some reason or another, you will inevitably end up stepping backwards to some degree.

Now, what happens if you, having yourself advanced through these levels of onion-peeling, take on a new horse? Do you expect it to reach your level more expediently or do you uncover each layer individually, as you did with the last horse?

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby musical comedy » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:57 am

Moutaineer wrote:Now, what happens if you, having yourself advanced through these levels of onion-peeling, take on a new horse? Do you expect it to reach your level more expediently or do you uncover each layer individually, as you did with the last horse?
I don't know how 'advanced' in onion-peeling I've been on past horses, but I have owned and ridden (imo) more horses than the average AA.

It's clearly an advantage to have had experience in onion-peeling when you get a new horse. At least you know what you are aiming for. It's common to think that if you've succeeded before, you can do it again. That is not always the case in my experience. It depends on the horse.

Mountaineer wrote:Every time you get to a good layer, get it down, and think you are the shizz, you find there's another layer underneath, and become dissatisfied with what you've got.
Absolutely for me!! I guess this is what keeps so many dressage riders interested. For others, like myself, it discourages me and causes me to lose motivation. I don't like the 'challenge' of trying to fix things or teach things. At this point I just want to have a pleasant ride doing basic things. Yet, I would quit before I would become a trail rider because I would always be obsessed with straightness, IFL, etc. Ignorance is really bliss for so many.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby piedmontfields » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:49 am

Yes, I think of it as onion peeling, too! I learned this phrases first in yoga, not dressage. Anytime I get a really good lesson, a thickish peel comes off and I see where we are going next. That said, while I have literally ridden 100s of horses (~300+), I have owned only 1 and worked steadily with only 10-12. i do think more experience would help in being able to see when one could move to the next layer, and how to maintain the new standard.

On a possibly related note, I have seen that many GP trainers do not ride their young horses much, taking the "young horses are for young/less experienced riders" approach. Besides self-presentation, this kind of makes sense to me that the more refined, experience trainer is challenged to bring expectations down to the correct level for a young horse.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby blob » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:18 pm

This is a timely post--something a barn friend and I have been discussing a lot. Her horse has improved tremendously in the past year or so. She sometimes gets frustrated with work that doesn't feel as great or feels a bit like a step back. But from the ground it's so obvious that the worst of her horse's trot these days is still so much better in quality than the best of her horse's trot a year ago. I think it's one of those things that is so obvious to those on the ground, but harder to recognize when you're in the midst of it.

I know the same goes for me. A couple months ago, my instructor had me work on getting MM's outside hind to "feel like it was on a trampoline" in the canter. Well, I was skeptical I would feel that, but when I did, OH MY. Now...that feeling is ALL I can think about when I canter. But we don't really have that quality in her canter yet--I got a glimpse of it, but it's not something I'm consistently able to bring out. But it's also important to zoom out. Her canter in general has improved so much since last fall. Her warm-up canter now is what her 'in work' canter was. And then one day when that trampoline canter is easier and more accessible, I'll catch a glimpse of something else and suddenly i won't be AS excited about it. Though right now, it feels impossible to believe that I won't ALWAYS be excited by trampoline canter.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby musical comedy » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:19 pm

piedmontfields wrote: That said, while I have literally ridden 100s of horses (~300+), I have owned only 1 and worked steadily with only 10-12. i do think more experience would help in being able to see when one could move to the next layer, and how to maintain the new standard.
That's quite amazing, and I remember you writing that before. I'm curious as how you had access to 100's of horses. That is a LOT of horses, probably more than most younger professionals have ridden. You currently ride 10-12? How do you get that many ridden with having a job? The most I've ever ridden in one day is 4 that I owned and that just about drained every drop of my energy, and I wasn't working at the time.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby piedmontfields » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:35 pm

MC, it was just my strange introduction to riding via riding schools and people with herds 20 years ago, plus a willingness to get on most horses (how little I knew then--luckily I was never seriously hurt). I only ride 1 horse now (mostly). I was trying to describe that I had worked more intensely with 10-12 horses over the years (like over periods of months or years) besides the single horse that I have now. I really miss riding different horses, but there is no way I have time to do that! I would need to be retired to get even 2 ridden on a regular basis.

"Her horse has improved tremendously in the past year or so. She sometimes gets frustrated with work that doesn't feel as great or feels a bit like a step back. But from the ground it's so obvious that the worst of her horse's trot these days is still so much better in quality than the best of her horse's trot a year ago"

Blob, this is exactly the weird, confusing thing I'm talking about. Well described! I like your canter change description, too.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby musical comedy » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:54 pm

blob wrote:I know the same goes for me. A couple months ago, my instructor had me work on getting MM's outside hind to "feel like it was on a trampoline" in the canter. Well, I was skeptical I would feel that, but when I did, OH MY. Now...that feeling is ALL I can think about when I canter.
My mare has a good canter; well, better than the canters of previous horses I've ridden. I think it is that 'trampoline' feeling. Because I've never felt that before, initially it caused me a bit of intimidation. Now, I know it is a good thing, but yet I still do not find it comfortable to ride. Do you? My horse has a short very strong back, and I think yours does too as I recall. Perhaps that makes the jump feel pretty strong. I'm not looking forward to the changes, because they could pop up up out of the tack.

As for improving the trot, yes I know everyone claims it came be done. I still think it's only to a point. I think perhaps some cadence can be gotten, but I still firmly believe that each horse has only so much what I call 'range' within it, and some will never have a decent medium let alone an extension. I know some experienced people on here dispute that, but it's just my opinion based on what I've seen.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby StraightForward » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:58 pm

blob wrote:This is a timely post--something a barn friend and I have been discussing a lot. Her horse has improved tremendously in the past year or so. She sometimes gets frustrated with work that doesn't feel as great or feels a bit like a step back. But from the ground it's so obvious that the worst of her horse's trot these days is still so much better in quality than the best of her horse's trot a year ago. I think it's one of those things that is so obvious to those on the ground, but harder to recognize when you're in the midst of it.


This is a good argument for archiving schooling videos. It's nice to be able to go back and compare to what you had 6 months or a year ago.

Not so much with the gaits, but with the contact and connection, I think I got to a new level of work with Kyra this week. Then it was like - look, she is on the outside/right rein. Don't breath or do anything to disturb it! However, as she gets there more consistently, it will be something I can expect as a standard, and start to use for more effective work in other areas.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby exvet » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:19 pm

I guess for me it's a little different. I've been taken by a (really 3) breed that caught and maintains my focus more than the discipline of dressage. Don't get me wrong I am as hooked as anyone here on dressage. It's that double dose of type A personality of mine that ensures I'll stick with dressage as my mainstay but I do enjoy other disciplines including trail riding. So I don't consider focusing on maintaining straightness on the trail a bad thing at all, nor frustrating LOL just another opportunity to not be bored.

I think it's fair to say I've spent more miles in the saddle than the average amateur as well especially when it comes to backing and starting and developing them up through the lower levels with the luck of a few going higher than that. I also think I do a fair job at compartmentalizing the expectations because for me the breed comes first and my chosen breeds are not the conventional dressage breeds.

There are those I've developed that I knew what their limitations were/are so while I've been peeling that onion, I've not been too discouraged if they weren't able to produce the gaits of another and once I reached their pinnacle of a gait I looked for knew ways to maintain strength and keep it 'fun' for both the horse and I. BUT, I've also had the wonderful experience of creating four generations of a specific breeding program and with each generation my expectations have been raised. Junior by far has the best canter of all of the purebreds I've had, only my welsh cob x TB crosses came close/exceeded that. I've been having a ton of fun with getting through the layers and we're still peeling it back for sure.

What I find more interesting is that instead of going for 'that' feel of a specific gait (though my riding instructor is always saying during my lessons 'that is your canter' or 'that is your trot') as I get older I've become pickier on things like straightness but have also come full circle and focus on stuff I use to just use as a 'ride by the seat of my pants feel' with things like the amount of power, energy and the horse in my hand is producing- all the things I cared about as a kid. I find by simply riding with those things in mind, not so much how the gait feels in the moment, the gaits have all of a sudden been 'there'. For example I'll be focusing on straightness, getting the horse and keeping the horse through into both reins and my instructor will call out, 'hey does that feel as good as it looks?!!' and all of a sudden I'll realize that, 'hell yeah, it's all coming together.' Then we introduce something new and start all over again - lol.........So I guess my answer to do you bobble between expectations and standards.....well sort of.....but I've learned over the years that maintaining the importance on standards and pushing expectations way back in one's mind removes or at least lessens the human influence of tension regarding the gaits (focusing on the right ingredients to developing pure gaits) which is often the nemesis to improving or getting those higher scores.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby piedmontfields » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:55 pm

exvet wrote:but I've learned over the years that maintaining the importance on standards and pushing expectations way back in one's mind removes or at least lessens the human influence of tension regarding the gaits (focusing on the right ingredients to developing pure gaits)


This is a really good point! I definitely am more effective at achieving and staying in "my (new) canter" when I focus on all of the basic ingredients--rather than exactly on the canter itself.

I absolutely agree that the onion peeling is not limitless (and is much more limited for some than others). I also don't mind working on straightness or connection on the trail. I find it enjoyable. I have seen a lot of quite average horses improve their trots tremendously with systematic good training. That includes developing acceptable (not 8 or 9 trots but 6 or 7) mediums. However, the canters do not transform to the same degree. I think this jives with what is generally understood (e.g., buy the walk/canter, not the trot).

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby demi » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:12 am

Good topic. My brain is too spent from today’s lesson to respond, but some of the comments got my attention. Tomorrow.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby Chisamba » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:28 am

Well every onion has layers. You can peel a few onions and some make you cry and some don't. Lol

Point being if you have ridden any number of horses and none of them piaffe passage pirouette or do tempi, you wont be able to sit on a grand prix horse and enjoy it.

I remember someone on udbb bought a grand prix school horse and spent months showing us how she was having to retrain the horse, she managed to take about 90 days to happily turn it into a training level horse because that felt right to her.

Each layer of onion might take a while to accommodate, you may have to get used to the new normal before you even recognize it's time to take out the knife and peel.

I had a few horses to higher levels. I never had trouble with flying changes on any of them. I have trouble with flying changes on Kimba.

I have ridden quite a few horses at least through the national levels, I did not have trouble with rhythm on any if them. I am currently riding three horses that will completely lose rhythm if they feel blocked so I am having to learn to train a little differently. It is breed related, the standardbreds find it easy to get lateral, and it's my first foray into dressage with them.

I rode many arabians and Arabian x in my youth. Now I have a few draft x in my stable. Definitely different onions.


I think it's a good thing to just consider every horse you ride a teacher as well as a pupil.

As for canter not developing, Kimba, a pacer, with a lateral two beat ",canter" now maintains 3 beat rhythm and improves her jump in both straight lines. lateral work Nd counter canter. Canter is a taught gait, and as such is much more adjustable than the trot, which is more limited by conformation.

Again just my.opinion which I suppose is as limited as my experience

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby exvet » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:44 pm

Point being if you have ridden any number of horses and none of them piaffe passage pirouette or do tempi, you wont be able to sit on a grand prix horse and enjoy it.

Maybe I'm not understanding exactly the point you're making but if I take it at face value then I don't agree. The first time I was given such an opportunity I founds it absolutely fun. I was fortunate to have an instructor who could 'ride through me' as she would say and simply tell me what to 'feel' so getting passage was a piece of cake. He was a gem of a schoolmaster. Piaffe is also something that the first time I rode it, it was FUN, not frustrating, and it didn't take me doing much 'work' to get it LOL. Pirouettes also FUN but true some horses are more challenging than others. I found developing the pirouette to be a rewarding growing experience for me because I had a very trusting and willing horse the first time around. Now tempis are a bit different for me in that I find I have to tune EVERYONE out and just pretend I'm jumping a line of bounces. If I count my strides like I'm riding to/through a bounce exercise and substitute fc for the bounce I seem to be able to stay out of my horse's way. Tempis are the one and only exercise that I have yet to find an instructor who can ride through me and produce. Everything else I can produce what they tell me I'm suppose to feel but with tempi's I absolutely have to block out all 'chatter'.

Now having written this I think it just tells me that I'm good at collecting gaits; but, not very coordinated - really not an epiphany for me.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby blob » Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:34 pm

musical comedy wrote:
blob wrote:I know the same goes for me. A couple months ago, my instructor had me work on getting MM's outside hind to "feel like it was on a trampoline" in the canter. Well, I was skeptical I would feel that, but when I did, OH MY. Now...that feeling is ALL I can think about when I canter.
My mare has a good canter; well, better than the canters of previous horses I've ridden. I think it is that 'trampoline' feeling. Because I've never felt that before, initially it caused me a bit of intimidation. Now, I know it is a good thing, but yet I still do not find it comfortable to ride. Do you? My horse has a short very strong back, and I think yours does too as I recall. Perhaps that makes the jump feel pretty strong. I'm not looking forward to the changes, because they could pop up up out of the tack.


I do find it comfortable to ride! Hard to really get that level of engaged collection consistently, but when it's there it's both powerful and comfortable. However, MM does not have an especially short back like your mare. Her back is strong and keeping it loose and limber is a challenge we have consistently. But it does have a decent amount of length, which probably prevents things from keeping quite as poppy as your mare.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby Flight » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:01 am

Yes, I'm going through this. I'm learning to accept that there could be more as I go along! I try and maintain each step as 'this is your trot/canter now horse' of course it doesn't always happen.
I worry that I'm on the wrong path at times, and not having regular lessons doesn't help with this, also never having trained at higher levels before (so not feeling it until now) but if you don't try and go there, you never will.
I have average horses, with conformation difficulties but having seen videos of horses seemingly no more talented be able to piaffe/passage/tempis etc ... I reckon mine might be able to as well :)

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby kande50 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:23 pm

musical comedy wrote:At this point I just want to have a pleasant ride doing basic things. Yet, I would quit before I would become a trail rider because I would always be obsessed with straightness, IFL, etc. Ignorance is really bliss for so many.


I've been working on my obssession with straightness and it's been paying off. I can still feel that Sting isn't as straight as my other horses (and never will be), and I still indulge myself and work on it when I feel like it, but I also keep in mind that it's an obssession and a waste of time. However, working on straightness is still riding so if that's what I feel like doing then that's what I do. I just try not to get stuck on it.

I've also gotten much better about leaving all of my horses alone when we're out trail riding, because my drive to work on something all the time is waning. It's a gift, and I'm not fighting it.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby demi » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:50 pm

Today’s ride was interesting and some of what I read in this thread yesterday was in the back of my mind as I was riding.

I started with About 10 minutes of walk as usual, but while I was walking, I focused on EQUAL weight in both seatbones, and equal feel in both reins. I was going to the right the whole time because I wanted to work on being able to push her a little bit into my left (outside) rein with my right seatbone. The exercise was for me to see how little or how much right seat bone it took to be able to feel it in the left (outside) rein. I had to concentrate to keep everything very neutral so I would feel the slight increase in the left rein, and also to register in my brain how little I was using my right seatbone. Keeping everything “neutral” in this case meant keeping her in a marching, round, walk.

The exercise went well. When I was confident that I could feel what I was doing and how it was affecting the horse, I added in some turns on the forehand, and then a few steps of shoulder-in.

After the 10 minutes walk going to the right, plus the exercises I described, I changed direction across the diagonal and on the next long side, organized myself for trot and asked for it. She gave me canter. It flashed quickly in my head that “I asked for TROT not canter” but the transition was so nice that I just went with it and it turned out to be a new, improved canter. I cantered one full arena and then a 20m circle before I asked for trot. She immediately transitioned into a really rhythmic and relaxed, trot, snorting in rhythm.

The good results came about by setting the standard for myself and not thinking ahead about my expectations (thanks thread commenters :D )

The new canter was powerful and relaxed at the same time. I could use the trampoline thing to describe it. Rocky has a short back, and when I first started to canter as a 4 yr old, I would describe it as a jack hammer affect. The more recent canter has been much more rideable, but today’s canter was totally enjoyable.
Last edited by demi on Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby exvet » Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:17 pm

I had the most fabulous lesson today in a long, long time. We started with my riding instructor asking how Junior had been doing over the last week. I responded with nothing surprising - well he's doing better in some areas but he is still grabbing the right rein and being resistant to truly working into it. She explained that her grand prix horse is doing the same thing and that despite knowing all the movements he just isn't coming through and giving the power and feel she wants. She said, let's do this.......start at walk to the right on a 20 meter circle and we're going to work on getting Junior to step under with his right hind and work into and finish into the left rein. You are going to have to turn his head right (look into the circle), push his haunches out to the left and capture him with the left rein, keeping it close to his neck and never, ever give up the contact. Well it took quite a bit of conversation between Junior and I that included some threats to rear and the like. I just ignored his hissy fits and kept insisting and we got him to give the right answers repeatedly so then we went to the trot. Not too surprising I got the middle hoof at first and then as I failed to back off and kept insisting that he move his haunches over to the left, capturing the landing of his left hind into my left hand IT WAS NIRVANA. I got a trot that was so powerful, swinging through his back all the way through from his tail to finishing into the bit and it was equal on both sides. He raised his withers through his thoracic sling and I was riding a different horse. A couple of things regarding feeling that really struck me - (1) there was far more weight in my hands than what I was expecting but it was all in the correct direction. I accepted it and re-cycled it (meaning the power and energy Junior was giving me); and (2) as soon as Junior honestly came over his back and finished into both reins equally (so he was straight on the circle) not only was he using himself correctly and raising his withers but my knees dropped! He became taller, skinnier and my legs lengthened and it was like I was totally wrapped around him - no more bunched up horse underneath me. Again, it was truly like the heavens had parted. We were able to repeat this going in both directions in both a rising and sitting trot. I was able to get the best canter departs we've ever done and the canter was really lovely. I didn't have to do near as much convincing to get him to land in both reins (back hooves landing in my hands) at the canter. We quit the lesson early given the light bulb moments we got. Junior was powerful, riding clearly through and over his back and I was grateful that I had the strength to accept it and manage it. I got the same feeling of power and floating on air that Monty use to give me when he became 'a real dressage horse.....LOL'. I'm still walking on cloud 9. I think the onion just shed a couple of more layers ;) and I have a new standard for sure! BTW we had some of the best walk as well because his back just kept on swinging 8-)
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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby Chisamba » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:13 pm

Flight wrote:Yes, I'm going through this. I'm learning to accept that there could be more as I go along! I try and maintain each step as 'this is your trot/canter now horse' of course it doesn't always happen.
I worry that I'm on the wrong path at times, and not having regular lessons doesn't help with this, also never having trained at higher levels before (so not feeling it until now) but if you don't try and go there, you never will.
I have average horses, with conformation difficulties but having seen videos of horses seemingly no more talented be able to piaffe/passage/tempis etc ... I reckon mine might be able to as well :)

This is what I meant when I said unless you have ridden up levels you dont know what to expect or develop. I tried to be polite and say enjoy the ride, but exvet decided to take it literally and tell me I am wrong

I appreciate you admitting there is a difficulty the first time you develop new skills.

I guess I dont have the talent to have trainers ride through you. Whatever that is. I liken a new level of training to walking into a dark room and having to feel for the light switch. Once you found the switch once finding it again to turn on the light is easier.

I had students get on my GP horse for a lesson and constantly get flying changes because their seat and leg were not steady enough.

As always just my opinion.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby exvet » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:20 pm

This is what I meant when I said unless you have ridden up levels you dont know what to expect or develop. I tried to be polite and say enjoy the ride, but exvet decided to take it literally and tell me I am wrong


I simply said I didn't agree with your black and white statement as it relates to a grand prix horse because for me I had a different experience and I have to believe that I'm NOT a study of n=1. I did not say you were wrong in terms of all rides/some riders. I do agree with the premise that it's difficult to know what you don't know. I also agree with the premise that it's difficult the first time you develop new skills at least to some degree. I don't agree that because of this you can't get on a grand prix horse and discover what it's like to ride some of the movements and do so correctly if you have a good eye/instructor on the ground. At least this way you get to feel what a piaffe and/or passage and/or etc feels like. I have ridden many horses and taken many from backing through various levels of training (and disciplines). Some had an easier time developing or learning new skills than others and what was more difficult for some, was easier for others for a myriad of reasons. Why can't it be the same for humans?

Again, I was simply disagreeing with what seemed like a very black and white statement and apologize for missing your intent to be polite. I am a very literal person and have difficulty with others because of it. My attempt to preface my response as to how I was taking your message as a more polite way to disagree obviously was lost on you as well; but in any regards, I do apologize for missing the memo that I was not supposed to take it literally and only supposed to interpret the figurative analogy that was implied. I'll try to do better next time LOL......

As for the challenges of learning on a green or previously untrained to that level horse, I get it; but, I've also had to train to first, second, third and prix st. george without the benefit of a schoolmaster so I know what it's like and I've managed to get past the speed bumps. It's difficult but easier with a good instructor.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby piedmontfields » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:53 am

ExVet, that is a simply thrilling update. Thanks for describing it!

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musical comedy
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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby musical comedy » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:28 pm

exvet wrote:As for the challenges of learning on a green or previously untrained to that level horse, I get it; but, I've also had to train to first, second, third and prix st. george without the benefit of a schoolmaster so I know what it's like and I've managed to get past the speed bumps. It's difficult but easier with a good instructor.
True. There are people that can do this. IMO, the majority cannot which somewhat explains why they get 'stuck' at First or Second Level. To do this without instructor help, makes it much more difficult, but still there are those that have done it. Few and far between imo. If you (g) are unfortunate enough to have a horse that finds the upper level work difficult, you may never get the feel of what cadence, medium/extended, etc. even feels like. So how then would you know how to train for it?

I also never had the luxury of learning on a school master, but my old guy was a quality horse that was able to give me some correct upper level work on occasion. I never rode Piaffe and Passage, but I was able to get the feel of it when a trainer was behind me using the whip. I also had a trainer tap on the knees to get lift. Once I felt all that, I now have a clue on what I'm after. Could I get on a GP horse and not drive it crazy? I don't know. It depends on the horse and how hot it was. If it is extremely sensitive, then probably it would be throwing in flying changes and P&P when I didn't ask for them. However, I feel confident enough in my ability that I would quickly be able to adapt. All assuming the horse wasn't too hot because I am not talented enough for a hot horse.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby Josette » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:43 pm

Exvet - so happy for you and Junior's wonderful update! :D I so enjoy reading and learning from your detailed exercises in your lessons. So VERY helpful. One quick question early on in your description starting the walk circle to the right with head looking inside. You want him to go into the outside left rein but mentioned pushing his haunches out to the right. Did you mean push haunches out to the left? I would like to replicate this exercise but for us it would be going to the left as that is our problem rein. The familiar pony finger response.

We have been swimming here in heavy down pours of rain - so no riding this past week. It feels like living in a swamp and sauna outside daily hoping for some better weather. So I've reading these wonderful updates and exercises to plan my next rides - hopefully very soon. 8-)

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby exvet » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:29 pm

Oops thanks for the catch, Josette, and yes, I meant to say push his haunches out to the left. I have to work the next two days so we'll see if I can reproduce the correct response and feel again on my own on Sunday. I think Junior's enjoying having the day off already LOL. BTW please send your rain this way. I'm getting nervous watching all the fires burning here. So far we haven't been in real danger despite one being set not that far from us; but, with each dry day and knowing that the monsoons and lightening are coming you know to keep the rig hooked up, ready to load and go.

It will be really interesting to see if this 'new standard' that I believe we've established will increase our scores on our collectives and which ones. I'm shooting for showing recognized at the fall show held here in Scottsdale - close and convenient. If we show a difference (improvement) in our overall gait score I'll be very pleased but to do that I will have to really have the walk consistently better.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby Josette » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:55 pm

Thank you for the clarification Exvet!

(edited to add - raining here yet again. Will try to send it your way!)
Last edited by Josette on Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby khall » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:09 pm

exvet is that not an exercise you have done before? That is one Mark used early on both in hand and US. He called it advance the haunch. Anja B uses it a good bit along with counter SI. How steep was the angle? We start fairly shallow and as the horse gains strength and flexibility gets to the point of 10 m circle with crossing inside hind over to the point of diagnolizing the walk. IMO this exercise has been instrumental in Rip's greater flexibility, which was difficult for my big muscled power house.

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Re: When you develop a new standard for a gait...

Postby exvet » Sat Jun 22, 2019 2:31 am

Well yes khall I've done it before and was trying to do it on my own but having someone on the ground reinforce that it's the right one to use to address the issue and then 'have my back' when my horse is trying to rear and throw a tantrum really helps me 'see it through'. I also appreciate her sense of style in that she dispels all the rhetoric I've heard over the endless years that had me thinking I couldn't touch the reins in fear of <gasp> riding front to back........Junior's initial reactions to this exercise had me second guessing my approach. My instructor, which imo is the purpose of having one, simply gave me the encouragement I needed to see it through to a point where it really made a huge difference. That is precisely why I point out the 'feel' I had such as the more than expected weight in my hands. On my own I would have wondered if I was pulling even though I knew I wasn't.......it's just nice to have things confirmed, at least for me.


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