Lightbulb Moments

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Lightbulb Moments

Postby musical comedy » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:52 am

When all of a sudden you realize that one thing that works. That one thing you've been doing wrong forever. Or not enough or too much. Sometimes it's a tiny thing that makes a huge difference.

And then you think "why hasn't a trainer seen this and told me about it?" Then you start to wonder just how many other little things you are doing wrong that are yet to be discovered and maybe never will be.

The thing is that it can get a little sticky if you are working with a trainer that is always focused on your equitation, because often this results in the horse not working well until the good riding becomes confirmed. Also, for some of us it becomes impossible to be trying to correct more than one big fault at a time. It results in rider stiffness that affects the horse's way of going.

Everything has to become auto-pilot. I think about jumping a course. For me, it is auto-pilot to look up for the next fence. Or for a dressage test, to think about going into the corners or thinking about the upcoming transition after an extension.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby chantal » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:37 pm

Nodding head in vigorous agreement.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby Flight » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:51 pm

Oh yes, I know that feeling and sometimes it then has me doubting my whole riding existence. Last clinic I did, I was told one little thing that to me was amazing and worth all the $$ and effort of attending lol.
What was your recent lightbulb moment?

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby musical comedy » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:15 pm

Flight wrote:What was your recent lightbulb moment?
It's something very simple. It's my overuse of the right rein, especially when it's the outside rein. I was inadvertently getting a connection by taking that rein rather than riding into it.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby Chisamba » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:43 am

As an instructor I will say that 90 % of the time the student has a lightbulb moment it's the 29 to 100th time the instructor said it. I bet your trainer has said multiple times in multiple ways to ride back to front, or leg to rein. Or some version of your discovery, it just suddenly makes sense in that fabulous moment of discovery.

And yes, I have had a few.
Last edited by Chisamba on Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby musical comedy » Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:36 am

Chisamba wrote:As an instructor I will say that 90 % of the time the student has a lightbulb moment it's the 29 to 100th time the instructor said it. I met your trainer has said multiple times in multiple ways to ride back to front, or leg to rein. Or some version of your discovery, it just suddenly makes sense in that fabulous moment of discovery.
Yes most often this is true. In my case, it's not quite that simple nor is it the "inside rein to outside thing".
There are things riders do or don't do that cannot be seen by even the best instructor. Sometimes those things the rider is doing are so subtle and sensitive horses can react positively or negatively to a very subtle thing.

On the subject of back to front, most riders will say they are doing that and many are not.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby Chisamba » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:25 pm

Agreed MC

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby musical comedy » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:36 pm

To expand on what Flight asked. I hestitate to air the dirty linen by admitting some of the beginnerish things I've been doing. With my current mare, leg yield is part of every lesson. First during rising trot warmup and then at the beginning of the sitting trot work. It's always come down the long side, turn at the center line, and leg yield over. Usually I have some issue addressed. The lightbulb moment on this exercise was that I have to sit back and 'give' as I make the turn. Sounds like dressage 101, but I guess I was micro-managing with my hands and causing various issues. It is difficult at least for me to describe what I'm doing and not doing and I aways blow things out of proportion to the negative. For that reason, I rarely discuss my training because others always seem to misunderstand what's really going on.

Giving without throwing the horse away is a very difficult thing for me. Maybe because it's not really giving, but just allowing. It's especially difficult when you are riding a horse not confirmed in the work and also trying to spook and get crooked.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby blob » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:44 pm

For me, lightbulb moments often happen in one of three ways:

1. I've been told something plenty, but I haven't ever felt it. One day I finally feel it and suddenly many things click into place. This can happen with or without an instructor present.

2. Something is explained to me in a different way or new aspect is emphasized and suddenly I am able to better process or act on something. A good example of this is that years ago my instructor at the time told me to 'just let go of the canter' when working on canter-trot transitions. I'm sure she told me in a million other ways, perhaps 'stop cantering with your seat' or 'stop cantering with your aids' or 'pause your seat' or whatever else she might have said. But for whatever reason the phrasing of 'let go of the canter' just clicked things into place for me.

3. I have been struggling with something and realize (with or without an instructor's help) that I have been doing something silly that is completely interfering with what I"m trying to do. A recent example of this, was realizing that in my left to right FC (the harder direction for me and MM), I was blocking her with the new inside rein. These kind of lightbulb moments are usually moments of recognizing my own crookedness in some way or another and aren't always as exciting as the other two types of lightbulb moments because fixing rider crookedness often takes time, but they're just as valuable!

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby exvet » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:09 pm

musical comedy wrote:
Everything has to become auto-pilot. I think about jumping a course. For me, it is auto-pilot to look up for the next fence. Or for a dressage test, to think about going into the corners or thinking about the upcoming transition after an extension.


This to a "T" for me. I, like so many, have found challenges with the tempi's but when I got out of my head and just rode by feel I found the same autopilot 'easiness' I developed as a child when riding the strides between my fences. So I have to look at that movement and set it up like I was riding the lines in the hunter ring. I was so focused on what others (instructors, clinicians) were trying to help me with in regards to the timing of my aids but listening to them and then trying to implement their instructions were causing me to delay, interfere with the horse and just resulted in frustration. Their instruction was still important and valuable but I had to sort of take it away with me and realize that 'I can do this'. Timing and counting strides were some things I've managed competently before so I had to find 'that feel' again. Once I was able to do that 'that' movement became easier and I had fewer and fewer late changes because I got out of my horse's way. To me it's like dancing and having a good lead. If I just listen to the music's tempo and let my partner lead it becomes so much more fluid and fun. Those are what lightbulb moments are like for me.

I find watching Junior both at liberty and when riding that in essence it seems like it's the same for him as well. He is so expressive. I observed him watching me open a new latch on a gate. I left the barn and went up to the back patio on our house and sat down to relax for a few moments. He walked over to the gate with purpose and started to use his mouth to manipulate the latch. He kept trying until he got it to release and move. The look of "ah, this is how it works, too easy" was priceless. I've been working on his straightness and managing his weak or stiff side (the left). It's been challenging; but, those moments when I get him truly straight and he's traveling with true power coming from behind into the hand even he has those light bulb moments because he suddenly relaxes through the top line getting longer and he starts to blow. Each time he's less resistant when I ask - it becomes easier for him because he's getting out of his own way. Of course I realize I may be anthropomorphizing too much but I also drink the kool aid that tells us dogs on average understand about 640 words of the human language ;)

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby chantal » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:35 pm

My most recent huge lightbulb moment was not pulling my guy around turns or a circle, just the inside half half-a squeeze of the hand basically. If my guy is going through the outside shoulder I will react by pulling to the inside. And much like musical comedy it goes with giving the outside rein so he can fill it, but not giving the connection away. Squeeze don't pull and give on the outside, like I have to move my outside hand an inch or more forward to go around the turn. And then my boy really moves, it's amazing.

And of course I know not to pull him around turns, it's much more subtle than that but we really got it. Now for it to be consistent.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby musical comedy » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:43 am

exvet wrote:This to a "T" for me. I, like so many, have found challenges with the tempi's but when I got out of my head and just rode by feel I found the same autopilot 'easiness' I developed as a child when riding the strides between my fences. So I have to look at that movement and set it up like I was riding the lines in the hunter ring. I was so focused on what others (instructors, clinicians) were trying to help me with in regards to the timing of my aids but listening to them and then trying to implement their instructions were causing me to delay, interfere with the horse and just resulted in frustration. Their instruction was still important and valuable but I had to sort of take it away with me and realize that 'I can do this'. Timing and counting strides were some things I've managed competently before so I had to find 'that feel' again. Once I was able to do that 'that' movement became easier and I had fewer and fewer late changes because I got out of my horse's way. To me it's like dancing and having a good lead. If I just listen to the music's tempo and let my partner lead it becomes so much more fluid and fun. Those are what lightbulb moments are like for me.
I never mastered the tempis on auto-pilot. My counting also never seemed to be in sync with the stride. I will agree with you though that the trainer was more of a hindrance than a help. They try to count for you and it never worked for me. Also, if one change was late (not late behind, but just slow to do the change and added a stride) , then I would get all confused.

The thing about auto-pilot is that unfortunately bad faults are auto-pilot too. Like my right hand. You know how they talk about independent aids. Well, I think that I can't use my right leg without doing something with my right hand.

Chantal wrote:And of course I know not to pull him around turns, it's much more subtle than that but we really got it. Now for it to be consistent.
Yes of course we know, and what we do both bad and is IS subtle. It really is amazing to see how sometimes the smallest adjust makes such a huge difference. I'm on a few rides now since this lightbulb change, and it continues to work. Sometimes we change things and it works once, but that was just a fluke. When it gets consistent, then we know we finally got it.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby chantal » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:39 am

musical comedy wrote:
Chantal wrote:And of course I know not to pull him around turns, it's much more subtle than that but we really got it. Now for it to be consistent.
Yes of course we know, and what we do both bad and is IS subtle. It really is amazing to see how sometimes the smallest adjust makes such a huge difference. I'm on a few rides now since this lightbulb change, and it continues to work. Sometimes we change things and it works once, but that was just a fluke. When it gets consistent, then we know we finally got it.


Subtle, like looking down vs up (GAH!!), moving my midsection/abdomen back, not letting my hips get in front of my shoulders, not giving that inch in my elbows to let the connection go, drop the hands an inch,move them an inch foward... oh, i could go on and on. Sometimes my brain blows, but that's less and less fortunately.

Riding almost every day has helped so much as I was only riding 2x a week for a couple of years before getting my boy. The muscle memory is coming in little bits and pieces. As well as the knowledge.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby khall » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:38 pm

It is especially humbling when it is something we already know! It does help to hear from different instructors similar fixes just said in a different way. Or same instructor coming at the issue a bit differently and the Ah Ha moment happens. IMO it also helps to ride different horses. They can bring something different to the table and causing us to have an Ah Ha moment.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby Imperini » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:22 pm

Oh yes, I've had a lot of these lately.. thank you consistent lessons! Of course I had lessons with the horse I part boarded for a couple of years as well as school horses and I never got out of them what I am getting out of my recent lessons. My now regular instructor has been really good in helping me work better with my horse and a few lessons with another instructor really helped me with my position. Basically wording something differently than the way I'm sure I've been told hundreds of times helped me figure out how to bring my whole body together, as well as reminding me that I do indeed have shoulder blades and back muscles and I should involve them in things. So now I'm like how did I not figure this stuff out 20 years ago? I think perhaps the non-regular instructor was able to get through to me so well because she has the same body type as I do so what applies to her applies to me in pretty close to the same way.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby exvet » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:49 pm

I was thinking about this thread today after finishing my lesson. I think Junior had more lightbulb moments than I did today; but, those that I had were entirely centered around very subtle changes in my communication with Junior. There were no drastically different efforts. I simply had an opportunity to tweak things and get them to where, for all these years, everyone has been trying to get me to do/be/feel. Such subtle changes gave me a horse that was so easy to ride and happy in his work. While I agree it's humbling, I also think the greatest difference in my riding now is that I'm not in any hurry. I have goals but no looming agenda or deadlines, far less pressure resulting in being able to enjoy the seemingly small things that translate into success. I don't know but I'm hoping that I have found a maturity in myself that is allowing my horse to become all that he can be instead of trying to insist that 'he be here'. My riding is becoming more exacting and focused in my requests; but, I am better able to just wait and give Junior the opportunity to give me the right answer and not 'reacting' too soon when it doesn't happen the way I want it - instantaneously to my request. By just being a wee bit more patient, I am able to reward the correct response and then get instantaneously the next time I ask. THIS has probably been my greatest lightbulb moment or even an epiphany. My horse is happy. I am happy. We're prepared to handle the speed bumps which I know will come but we've both seen success with just slowing down and gradually getting over them.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby Chisamba » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:14 pm

Exvet what you said really resonated. I had made it a goal to get flying changes on Kimba and get 3rd level ready this year.. wrong wrong wrong goal. My current goal is to get the same response to a specific aid regardless of where we are in the arena, who is in front, behind or near us, regardless of greed time or weather, if aid means A , once she knows what it means I should not have to get stronger , quicker, or change. So once I know she knows something, we do it again and again and again until we both understand the concept, balance and consistency.

I started simply with whoa, no reins. I realized she would respond rapidly and relaxed facing away from the barn at x. But approaching A she would ignore me because she was facing the our gate.

I realized her competitive nature and herd nature cause her to ignore things she knows under certain circumstances. My dumb stupid response was to get stronger in the rein to get compliance.

I had to really focus on not doing that.

It's been such a dynamic aha!

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby khall » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:07 pm

Excellent points both exvet and chisamba! Good take home to work on for sure.

Don't you feel most dressage riders tend to be type A people? Where we are always wanting that bit more? When we should not or as exvet says wait? Raise hand high here!!

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby exvet » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:23 pm

Oh I agree khall and definitely resemble that remark - in fact my father use to tell me I was double dosed homozygous Type A.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby Sue B » Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:20 pm

I got a light bulb moment a few years ago from a biomechanics clinic in which one of the riders had sloped shoulders like me. Instructor said she learned from a previous student to quit saying "shoulders down" and to actually try a little "shoulders up" instead. This was to help swing with the sitting trot especially in medium and extended. I couldn't wait to get home to try it--AMAZING. Who knew? Slopey shouldered people do not need to keep driving their shoulders down...They already ARE down! :shock:

ETA: Probably didn't explain that well, but dang was it an eye-opener.

My lunatic rehab, Scotty, taught me all about real patience and quietly waiting for a response. Lucky for me, Tio reminds me every time I ride. Rudy is always trying to anticipate my wants, so a whole different kind of riding required (mentally, that is.)

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby musical comedy » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:37 pm

I truly feel the lights are on now. All I have to do is remember and make this new thing a habit. I've defintely made a breakthrough. I look forward to tomorrow's lesson to see what the trainer thinks.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby StraightForward » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:00 am

Yes, lightbulb moments, I have them all the time.

With the last Ritter challenge, they talked about the kneeling seat. Well, I think I already do that, so I went out to really do it, and just ended up in a fork seat. However, a little later I thought about it in a different way, sort of riding as if I am knock-kneed, and suddenly, my toes pointed forward. Just a different visualization of the same suggestion.

Today, Sylvia Loch kindly answered a question of mine on FB just before I rode Kyra. I asked her how to maintain flexion on the stiff/heavy side without hanging on the inside rein. She gave me a few ideas, and the one that worked was moving my outside rein away from the neck a bit. It's not like there was sudden perfection, but similar to MC, I was blocking with the OR in a quest to ride IH to OR, and I felt that we were more successful in maintaining the left bend and flexion during our ride this morning.

I'll have to re-read her reply before I ride next, to see what else she suggested, because I only seem to be able to hold 1-2 new thoughts in my head at a time.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby kande50 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:36 am

musical comedy wrote:I truly feel the lights are on now. All I have to do is remember and make this new thing a habit. I've defintely made a breakthrough. I look forward to tomorrow's lesson to see what the trainer thinks.


I think that when we've been riding forever the lightbulb moments tend to be subtle, and often nbd to instructors. Or at least whenever I've mention my latest insight to my instructor she usually seems a bit confused, and unimpressed--which is probably why I don't ride with an instructor very often.

I'll be interested to hear about how your instructor reacts to your lightbulb moment.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby musical comedy » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:01 am

StraightForward wrote:Today, Sylvia Loch kindly answered a question of mine on FB just before I rode Kyra. I asked her how to maintain flexion on the stiff/heavy side without hanging on the inside rein. She gave me a few ideas, and the one that worked was moving my outside rein away from the neck a bit. It's not like there was sudden perfection, but similar to MC, I was blocking with the OR in a quest to ride IH to OR, and I felt that we were more successful in maintaining the left bend and flexion during our ride this morning.
I'd be interested in hearing more of what she had to say about this. I also have had success doing something similar. With Ritter, I no longer follow him on FB or get any of his new stuff. I do, however, have copies of lots of his articles and also his book. I refer back to those articles from time to time. Each visit brings a new understanding. Even when the experts write things, we all sometimes interpret them differently. Like the kneeling thing or the 'bear down' thing.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby kande50 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:10 am

khall wrote:Excellent points both exvet and chisamba! Good take home to work on for sure.

Don't you feel most dressage riders tend to be type A people? Where we are always wanting that bit more? When we should not or as exvet says wait? Raise hand high here!!


Intellectually, I think most of us know that we need to be more patient and spend more time getting the basics right before trying to move on, but the temptation to try the next cool thing is just too much for both the students, and apparently, for a lot of instructors, too.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby Ryeissa » Sun Jul 14, 2019 1:25 pm

kande50 wrote:
khall wrote:Excellent points both exvet and chisamba! Good take home to work on for sure.

Don't you feel most dressage riders tend to be type A people? Where we are always wanting that bit more? When we should not or as exvet says wait? Raise hand high here!!


Intellectually, I think most of us know that we need to be more patient and spend more time getting the basics right before trying to move on, but the temptation to try the next cool thing is just too much for both the students, and apparently, for a lot of instructors, too.


I don't think this is what kahll meant.....

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby exvet » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:08 pm

musical comedy wrote:I truly feel the lights are on now. All I have to do is remember and make this new thing a habit. I've defintely made a breakthrough. I look forward to tomorrow's lesson to see what the trainer thinks.


Congratulations on your progress. Such moments/realizations really are fuel for the fire to continue and seek more progression but they also bring pleasure and accomplishment to the rider and to those horses who seek to please imo. I find that the lightbulb moments, for me at least, tend to come in stretches where all of a sudden we start to string concepts together or connect multiple dots. Then I'll hit a dry patch. I think my patience has improved and I am better able to work on strength and suppleness waiting for a better time to 're-introduce' whatever it is I'm trying to work on.

I also have over the years and with multiple horses learned better how to break movements down and (myself) understand the components so that I can work on each piece with the horse individually. Over time this too has yielded 'better and easier success'. With Junior, I worked on SI, HI and renvers at the walk during my 'waiting time' for my lessons. I got bored and there isn't a lot of room to really work in the warm-up area where I take lessons if there is more than 1 or 2 people riding. As a result I decided to work on the lateral movements at the walk just to get him supple and listening to my aids as a means of efficiency so that we could maximize our time in our lessons. Well by the time he was strong enough and ready to really start taking on those second level movements (several months) I'd been doing them so long at the walk and really demanding correctness that he was able to put the carriage, balance AND coordination of the steps together easily. I struck off into the trot the first time my instructor said, "Okay let's see what his SI is going to look like." and we came down the long side.....as we were finishing she said, this is good enough for a 7 or 8. There wasn't so much a lightbulb moment as there was realization for me that I finally 'listened' to all those GOOD instructors before this one and really gave my horse the opportunity to learn in a safe, consistent, methodological approach that gave him all the basics to put it together when asked. The fact that it was at the trot versus the walk was a NON-issue.
Last edited by exvet on Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby musical comedy » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:16 pm

exvet wrote:I also have over the years and with multiple horses learned better how to break movements down and (myself) understand the components so that I can work on each piece with the horse individually. Over time this too has yielded 'better and easier success'. With Junior, I worked on SI, HI and renvers at the walk during my 'waiting time' for my lessons. I got bored and there isn't a lot of room to really work in the warm-up area where I take lessons if there is more than 1 or 2 people riding. As a result I decided to work on the lateral movements at the walk just to get him supple and listening to my aids as a means of efficiency so that we could maximize our time in our lessons. Well by the time he was strong enough and ready to really start taking on those second level movements (several months) I'd been doing them so long at the walk and really demanding correctness that he was able to put the carriage, balance AND coordination of the steps together easily. I struck off into the trot the first time my instructor said, "Okay let's see what his SI is going to look like." and we came down the long side.....as we were finishing she said, this is good enough for a 7 or 8. There wasn't so much a lightbulb moment as there was realization for me that I finally 'listened' to all those GOOD instructors before this one and really gave my horse the opportunity to learn in a safe, consistent, methodological approach that gave him all the basics to put it together when asked. The fact that it was at the trot versus the walk was a NON-issue.
I'm doing a similar thing. We aren't working on half pass yet because I assume my trainer isn't happy enough yet with some other things (so strict on details). On my own, like you, I am playing around with stuff at the walk. I have mirrors, but for some reason never look into them. Mainly because I can see and don't ride with glasses. Anyway, with the mirrors and the experimenting with HP and TOH at walk, I am a flushing out my errors and getting the mare to understand. I suspect that when trainer does start HP at trot, he might be surprised that I do was well as I hope I'm going to do.

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Re: Lightbulb Moments

Postby StraightForward » Sun Jul 14, 2019 4:06 pm

musical comedy wrote:
StraightForward wrote:Today, Sylvia Loch kindly answered a question of mine on FB just before I rode Kyra. I asked her how to maintain flexion on the stiff/heavy side without hanging on the inside rein. She gave me a few ideas, and the one that worked was moving my outside rein away from the neck a bit. It's not like there was sudden perfection, but similar to MC, I was blocking with the OR in a quest to ride IH to OR, and I felt that we were more successful in maintaining the left bend and flexion during our ride this morning.
I'd be interested in hearing more of what she had to say about this. I also have had success doing something similar. With Ritter, I no longer follow him on FB or get any of his new stuff. I do, however, have copies of lots of his articles and also his book. I refer back to those articles from time to time. Each visit brings a new understanding. Even when the experts write things, we all sometimes interpret them differently. Like the kneeling thing or the 'bear down' thing.


The other pointers were simple- make sure the inside leg stays at the girth, not slipping back, and also she said I could try raising the outside rein a little, being careful not to shorten it. I already have a bit of a problem with my right hand floating up to high, so I probably won't add that strategy.

I think the rider can interpret the same words differently based upon where they are in their riding as well. Like, the basic kneeling idea helped me solidify my seat several years ago, and that was great, but now I've rethought the basic concept and added a refinement to get a better leg position.
Keep calm and canter on.


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