Straightening help needed

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Hayburner
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Straightening help needed

Postby Hayburner » Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:23 am

My mare and I are finally working in a relaxed state, it's been a long road, but there is much improvement.

At the walk and trot she tends to take her head to the outside. I don't know if I am causing this and if I am how do I remedy this?

I have tried keeping the outside rein a bit stronger and using my inside leg and also inside rein to get her to bend her body to the inside, but it doesn't last long. I'm not sure I am asking for the bend correctly, I know I should not be using my inside hand but if I don't try it that way I get no bend and more of her head to the outside.

Suggestions?

Tanga
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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby Tanga » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:26 am

I'm assuming both directions? Without seeing it, I would guess your weight is to the inside, so she's balancing the unbalance by putting her head out.

I would keep the outside rein and inside leg, but make sure you are weighting your outside heel more without pushing into it (and thus often end up leaning your weight in.) Instead of feeling like I'm holding my weight to the outside, I like to feel like I'm sweeping it to the outside each step to prevent my bracing or getting too tight.

Dresseur
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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby Dresseur » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:28 am

From your description, I’m inferring that you may be too restrictive on the outside rein. Basically creating 2 short (contracted) sides to your horse. I’d try to be softer/more allowing on the outside rein in that direction and keep asking with the inside rein for her so follow that around. Do lots of circles... you can also do leg yields or SI depending on the level of training. On the other side, be very wary of over bending. There I would hold a bit straighter and make sure the feel in the reins is pretty even.

galopp
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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby galopp » Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:49 am

Simply lift the inside rein slightly, it will cause inside flexion at the atlas. Meanwhile inside leg is pulsed closer to the girth, and the outside leg is passively down and back from hip to heel. The outside rein is filled out by lateral flexibility, not by holding it stronger per se.

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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby kande50 » Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:42 am

I work on this constantly, and have found that lifting the inside rein works better to initiate the bend (unstick him) than anything else I've tried. Normally I'd just use my inside leg, and I did spend a lot of time trying to get the bend from my leg, but he resisted that and if I put more pressure on him it just created tension, which would then persist rather than improving over time.

When I audited a PK clinic the horse was first taught, on the ground, to lower his head when the reins were lifted. Then, under saddle, every time the horse came up off the bit the rider would lift their hands to reestablish the contact with the bit. The places where I most often saw the riders asking their horses to reestablish contact was in the corners.

Hayburner
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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby Hayburner » Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:37 pm

Thank you for the suggestions!
I could be sitting out of balance a bit. And yes, she does do it going both directions. That's why I think I'm the problem.

As for the reins I have a tendency to be too soft with my reins so I just started holding the outside a bit tighter to see if it helped and it didn't, unless I opened my inside rein quite a bit. A friend suggested I give and take more on the inside rein but that work very well either. She seems to prefer a more steady contact and not much fiddling with the reins. She doesn't seem to do it as much when we are doing our stretchy walk.

I will try the lifting of the inside rein a bit and see if that helps .

We are just working on her keeping the contact and me keeping my hands steady for her. I was moving my hands too much to follow her and she wasn't coming to the bit. I am now using my back more to follow.

We have come so far that I don't want to create any tension or worry.

I'm glad no one every said riding is easy LOL...….

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StraightForward
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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby StraightForward » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:01 pm

I heard an interesting imagery yesterday, thinking of the outside side body like the outside railing of a spiral staircase, so your heel is farthest back, and hip and shoulder, etc. progressively more forward. You can then think a bit of riding around the middle post of the staircase (this was not part of the given analogy, I'm embellishing because this helps me to not collapse to the inside of the turn).

If the horse is leaning into the leg and falling over the inside shoulder, you can bump with the knee or leg yield out a couple steps to re-balance so that correct bend can be reestablished.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby heddylamar » Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:14 pm

Building on StraightForward's imagery, imagine your head is being pulled upwards, straightening your spine and equalizing the weight in your hips.

When I'm correcting bad body positioning, I ride it at the walk and trot on a loose rein for several days until it becomes enough of a habit I can correct myself while still actively riding the horse.

blob
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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby blob » Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:22 pm

some great suggestions here.

Another thought--you might need more outside leg:
If a horse is on a bending line, that means the outside half of their body is on a slightly larger track than the inside half of their body. The outside body has to wrap around and the legs have to reach further in order to make that turn/bend. So, it can be helpful to think of making sure your outside leg is supporting and encouraging that wider arc.

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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby piedmontfields » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:45 am

I have no idea if these are helpful mantras for others the way they are for me, but to manage relative straightness (for the ability of the horse) I think of:
-Steering the shoulders between evenly connected reins
-Putting the nose in the middle of the horse's chest

I think I'm one of those people who needs a target outside of her own body so that my body can relax and do the right work! :lol:

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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby lorilu » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:52 pm

piedmontfields wrote:I have no idea if these are helpful mantras for others the way they are for me, but to manage relative straightness (for the ability of the horse) I think of:
-Steering the shoulders between evenly connected reins
-Putting the nose in the middle of the horse's chest

I think I'm one of those people who needs a target outside of her own body so that my body can relax and do the right work! :lol:


this is just what my trainer tells me.......

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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby Koolkat » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:40 pm

My thoughts exactly, more or less. You move the horse's shoulders around the circle, you don't pull the horse's head around the circle. Your outside leg helps to "close" the outside of the circle, and helps to bring the horse's shoulders around the circle. The horse's head is positioned to the inside (at the poll), but don't confuse that flexion/inside positioning with the horse's nose being pulled to the inside. I wouldn't worry about that at this point. Learn to move your horse's shoulders. Do 20 meter squares where you swing the horse's shoulders around to turn them at each corner (in both directions) - don't use the reins to pull the horse around, just keep the head/neck straight out of the shoulder. Your shoulders and your horse's shoulders should be aligned as you swing them around. Your outside leg will be closed and moving the horse's body around as your body swings around. The horse will want to stay balanced under you as your body turns. Don't overthink it or rush it, let each step happen and feel it. You can then translate that feeling to every single step on the circle, although it will be much subtler. When you get this nailed, it will be a big step forward. Keep after it!

Dresseur
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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby Dresseur » Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:12 pm

Piedmont, this bit of advice
Putting the nose in the middle of the horse's chest
is something that really got me thinking a few weeks ago and I've been playing with this. I have a real tendency to overbend, especially in the canter. Over the years, I've complained that when riding Gala, I would sometimes come out of corners and I would feel like she'd try to go in shoulder in, or just wouldn't be stood up enough in the corners. Thinking of nose to the middle of the chest enabled me to keep better track of the outside rein for whatever reason and all those feelings went away as I kept playing with that idea.

When I talked to Andrea about it this past weekend, she felt like that could be a huge lightbulb moment for me. Her theory was that I was oversteering on the inside rein (very subtly too much neck bend) and then using my inside leg too much in order to help create that bend, which was sending the horse on an arc outside the circle, which I would then over correct - kind of ping-ponging between the aids. On less trained horses (training to 3rd/4th) it didn't really make a big difference in feel because I was doing this very subtly... but on the PSG, Intermediare and GP horses, I could feel the fall out from this over steering.

So, on my half ride on Miro, we worked on simple serpentines, just feeling him give a bit of inside flexion and then filling up the outside rein. He wants to get a bit blocky and rigid in the neck, while letting his body slide all over, so it gave me a black and white difference because he would stay straight in the serpentine until it was time to ask for the new bend, instead of doing a little bit of a shimmy across the center of the ring. On Gala, I had a super ride, including 3s and 2s no issue because I wasn't doing that subtle "too much neck bend" and keeping her dead center between my aids. But where I really feel this is in the hp, I was instantly able to make them much steeper and the half halts would go through very nicely because she was much bette connected.

In any case, just case in point that if you're paying attention, you can pick up things that can really impact your riding. So, thank you Piedmont and all members of the board for your musings and descriptions of the good and the bad.

piedmontfields
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Re: Straightening help needed

Postby piedmontfields » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:24 pm

Hey, that is very cool, Dresseur! I have to watch myself more at trot with what you describe than canter. In canter, if I'm not careful about nose in the middle of the chest, I have NO POWER.

You and Manni wrote some things on the other thread that lead me to some mind-blowing rides this past week. I'm still figuring out how to describe it, but thank you!


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