Amsterdam World Cup

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Tanga
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Amsterdam World Cup

Postby Tanga » Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:23 pm


blob
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Re: Amsterdam World Cup

Postby blob » Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:26 pm

thanks, Tanga, I saw this link in time to watch a few rides! Though, I didn't see Isabel's winning ride.

Tanga
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Re: Amsterdam World Cup

Postby Tanga » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:31 am

blob wrote:thanks, Tanga, I saw this link in time to watch a few rides! Though, I didn't see Isabel's winning ride.


Man, it stopped working about halfway through for me, in the middle of hers. Did she seriously win??? What I saw was bad. She made no attempt at extended trot, the trot half passes looked passagy and resistant, and she only did 10 steps of piaffe. I saw other rides with issues, but hers was not noticeably better.

Tanga
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Re: Amsterdam World Cup

Postby Tanga » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:52 am

Here's Wellington if you want to watch. You should be able to rewind and watch the whole thing.
https://pbiec.coth.com/article/live-str ... january-24

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Re: Amsterdam World Cup

Postby blob » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:24 pm

Tanga wrote:
blob wrote:thanks, Tanga, I saw this link in time to watch a few rides! Though, I didn't see Isabel's winning ride.


Man, it stopped working about halfway through for me, in the middle of hers. Did she seriously win??? What I saw was bad. She made no attempt at extended trot, the trot half passes looked passagy and resistant, and she only did 10 steps of piaffe. I saw other rides with issues, but hers was not noticeably better.


Charlotte was second and I also thought she was very generously scored....

Tanga
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Re: Amsterdam World Cup

Postby Tanga » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:35 pm

blob wrote:
Tanga wrote:
blob wrote:thanks, Tanga, I saw this link in time to watch a few rides! Though, I didn't see Isabel's winning ride.


Man, it stopped working about halfway through for me, in the middle of hers. Did she seriously win??? What I saw was bad. She made no attempt at extended trot, the trot half passes looked passagy and resistant, and she only did 10 steps of piaffe. I saw other rides with issues, but hers was not noticeably better.


Charlotte was second and I also thought she was very generously scored....


I wish I could see it! I have FEI tv, but they don't have the GP. I saw some pictures fo Charlotte, and saw Freestyle with her front leg about 30 degrees higher than the back. I think this trend in judging is dangerous.

I saw Gal and Minderhound and didn't like either too much. Both horses made mistakes in the tempis and looked very quick. I saw another one I am not familiar with that was not flashy, but they did a super nice, solid job. And then IW came in and looked terrible.

The judges have to stop this. Having just been at a judges seminar,I really think it's only happening at the very top. There are always irregularities, but I think most judging is as good as it gets. I was sitting with Marilyn Payne all day and talking to her, and asked what she thought about the way IW was scored and how her horses are consistently dropped in the back, and she basically said ugh, I don't understand it.

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Re: Amsterdam World Cup

Postby Dresseur » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:25 pm

Ok, so finally watched Freestyle’s vid. Won’t even comment on Weth- just ugh). Imo, Freestyle is def more connected than the last time I saw her go. The passage has some really lovely moments until I almost gets driven too far under and then the piaffe transition is not good. I don’t care for the piaffe itself either and then coming out of the piaffe, the passage shows quite a bit of balancé.

The canter is weird to me. On one hand, the changes are lovely I think- big, expressive... the right piri is better than the left- but both actually seem to lift through the shoulder, not punch off the shoulder. What’s weird to me is it gets scrambly or disunited somehow. It almost goes base wide when she collects for the left piri and the hp in canter seems to break the canter apart.

I agree with the judging trends- I don’t see how they can turn this around. But I’m glad to hear judges like Payne being critical.

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Re: Amsterdam World Cup

Postby Tanga » Mon Jan 27, 2020 4:12 am

I just finished watching all of the freestyles. I REALLY don't get it. The top six were super quiet and relaxed, except for Zonik, who I think was way overscored for the mistakes. Hans Peter finished behind Edward when she should have been above.

I get what you're saying about Freestyle, Dresseur. I see it in the irregular steps in the piaffe and the extended, which I don't think is very correct.

Just looking at the video and thinking about Isabel's test, I had her 5th. Thinking of the quality of each movement, I just don't see how she's better. The commentor kept saying how her passage was a 10, but how can it be a 10 if her back is dropped? And her half passes, extended trot, and walk are really by far the worst of the top bunch. Her changes and pirouettes are slightly worse in general. There's just no way those points add up. I figured at least five other horses had to be two points + better in their half passes, and on par or only slightly worse on the p/p.

I have been talking to and scribing for a lot of judges (always S +) lately and bring up this issue to pretty much everyone. I get pretty much the same response from everyone. "Ugh." They don't usually comment much beyond that, and I know no one wants to challenge the powers that be, but they all seem to not be happy by it.

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Re: Amsterdam World Cup

Postby Dresseur » Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:09 pm

Tanga, you're right... I didn't even mention the trot extension - it doesn't gain any ground at all. I'll have to actually watch Werth's test. I just really can't stand the hollowness of her horses.

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Re: Amsterdam World Cup

Postby blob » Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:13 pm

I very much agree that IW's trot extension leaves much to be desired--both in correctness and in pizazz. And it was definitely hollow, butI don't know that i thought her horse was particularly hollow during piaffe and passage also.

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Re: Amsterdam World Cup

Postby Tanga » Mon Jan 27, 2020 7:26 pm

blob wrote:I very much agree that IW's trot extension leaves much to be desired--both in correctness and in pizazz. And it was definitely hollow, butI don't know that i thought her horse was particularly hollow during piaffe and passage also.


It's interesting, Carl Hester commented that her extended trot was not forward, but she was balanced. At the freestyle symposium Janet Foy commented that a 2nd level rider I (and Marilyn Payne) felt had no medium and was a 5 was a 7 because it was uphill and balanced. Is there a relation there now where as long as a horse is up at any level, it can be a 7?

You can really see the dropped back in still pictures. Every single picture of her on every single one of her horses shows the back dropped. I don't know what it is in the way that she rides that gets the judges to judge her p/p so high, but they all are so hollow. It helps to look at still pictures and her rides in comparison to others. Other horse may not be so spot on steady, but you can really see a difference in the back lifting.

I know she can ride them any way that will get high scores and does. She used to ride them all super tight and short in the neck. She was clearly getting comments about it, so she changed it. If she was getting beaned on this instead of rewarded, she would change it.


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