Horse shopping, how did you know what you want?

[Lipsmackerpony88]

So I'm horse shopping after sadly losing my 4 year old to Wobblers recently. The Wobblers showed up a few months after badly with pedal ostiestis (missed on PPE) among other feet issues and a surprise of arthritis in his lumber. What's really gutting is a few years before that I lost another amazing young horse to extreme Trigeminal Nerve pain.

I've paid more in vet bills over the years than any purchase price. And the heartache is so heavy. But still I trudge on.

I've been gifted with some money from family members to help me. Even still my budget is $10k max right now.

I'm trying to figure out what I want. Obviously I'm going to be meticulous, vet thoroughly, check the sellers thoroughly.

But I was curious how did you guys pick your Dressage mounts? Did you have a trainer steer you? Do it solo?

I have some requirements but some people think I'm too picky. At this point I think it's okay to be picky.

[blob]

It is ok to be picky! It is also helpful to figure out what flaws you are comfortable. No horse is perfect, even a $100k one. So, I find it helpful to think through which things from a vetting, behavioral, or performance aspect you're willing to deal with and what you absolutely are not willing to deal with.

I won't talk about how I picked MM (off a picture on the internet with no vetting). But with RP and previous horses, I did it solo and with a pretty low budget.

I am a small person, so having a wide range of heights available to me helped. I was willing to take a cross breed, an unknown breed, or an unconventional breed. There are certain behavioral quirks I do well with--a nervous horse, a hotter horse, a looky horse. There are others that I don't want to deal with (bolters and rearers). There are some conformation or even vetting issues I feel ok about and others that send me running. But one advantage of looking at off breeds is that there are many non-warmbloods that are very hardy. I was also willing to take on an OTTB--not all have the movement for dressage, but some do. But you have to be willing to deal with the re-train.

One thing that can help find a really nice budget horse is if you look for horses that have failed to perform at their intended discipline. When I got RP I went looking for ponies that were just not cutting it as hunter ponies. I saw a lot of great budget options that way! There were some lovely ones that didn't like jumping and would stop or get ring sour about jumping. There were a few that just wanted to carry themselves too up in the neck for hunters or had too much knee action. In RP's case he was too hot and sensitive. I have a friend who got a great deal on a really nice appendix that was supposed to run barrels but was too slow/got anxious about being galloped. People selling these horses often don't know or recognize dressage potential and are sometimes just looking to unload/find a new place for a hrose that they think is a bit of a dud.

[Dresseur]

Make a list of things you are willing to negotiate on (color/height/age/gaits) and things you won't (temperament, soundness for the job you intend for it to be doing, comfortable gaits, certain vices etc.). Expand your search a touch, go 16.2 instead of 16 or 15.1 instead of 15.3 (idk what your height parameters are. Don't look at anything without video, and ask the seller a number of questions designed to make you sound like the biggest noob that ever sat on a horse - what does it do when you accidentally hit it in the mouth, what if I put too much leg on or fall back in the saddle. - you are trying to sort out temperament.

Word of mouth is better, and make sure you can try the horse in person. I think it's best for the ammy owner to do the legwork and find the prospects and send them to a trainer that knows you best. If possible, trainer should try the horse with you. Don't get suckered into brilliant gaits, that gets you nowhere if you can't ride the horse due to a shit attitude or that it's so huge moving.

It's ok to be picky on the things that matter, and have a vet on standby for 2nd opinions on ppe's. I just helped my student find a horse, she is picking him up on Wed or Sat this week - he's a grade Paint mutt, but when we ditch the drawreins and ride him up a bit, I think he'll be quite nice. It's always a crapshoot - there were things that popped up on the vetting that we felt (with 2 other vet's opinions) were worth the risk and made for excellent negotiation points. We asked all the things, tried the horse, but with a change in environment and a change in turnout or training or whatever, you will see a change in the horse.

Pics attached so you can see why we thought there was potential.

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[silk]

A little bit trial and error. I'm horse shopping. I thought I found one, a lovely horse, to lease, but despite having LOTS to like, she's turned out to have a few non-negotiable responses when under stress and I am going to return her.

I'm not shopping for a competition horse so my task is somewhat easier. Start with what you know you want - a height bracket, age range, breed/not breed - and then be flexible. For me, I am happy on anything from 14hh to 16hh. I don't care about breed. I don't particularly care about age as long as it's over 6yo and not ancient (aged is OK as I'm looking for something until I start my young mare in a year). I know I want a mare, but I'm perusing gelding ads just in case one stands out. I'd lease one under the right circumstances, I'm not set on buying. I'm shopping in the sub-ppe range - I'm a hoof person so I do have knowledge there and know what's probably fixable and what's not - I might run xrays past a colleague, if they are available, but in general a vet check is going to be half as much as the horse is so I'm likely to take the gamble without one.

Advice about finding one that's "failed" in its intended discipline is good. Often if you change their environment or 'job' to one that they actually like, they are pretty darn good horses.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I wrote a really long post and it disappeared! Ah well will respond later when I have time. Thanks guys

[PhoenixRising]

I don't have a ton of advice on how to know what you want, but I will say not to be afraid of looking in unconventional places as well. Sometimes you can find some real gems when people just don't know what they have.
Phoenix for instance, a Friesian Sporthorse, was on Craigslist as a weanling for "$1200 or trade for hay or well broke horse".
You might not find anything that way, but its worth looking in strange places just in case!
Photo from her sale ad. I really couldn’t believe what I was seeing

[khall]

I’ve bred for everything I ride for years now but I help others to find their horses. For me temperament is first and foremost period. Soundness next. I try to match the horse to the rider. We go out knowing usually that the training is not going to be what we want. Though the last one we found a OTTB g 10 schooling second level with a temperament to die for has some lovely training on him.

We’ve always looked at off breeds. From a huge young grade gelding to OTTB and gorgeous apha black and white.

Where are you? I have a WB mare that I would part with I just don’t have the time for her. I’m in Georgia

I love riding her but have two already

[Flight]

Sorry that you had those problems Lipsmackerpony. It does feel like potluck sometimes.

I wanted particular breeds but couldn't afford purebreds or ones that were going, so had to get youngster partbreds and do all the training myself.
I did ok with the first 2 and met my match with Norsey, but luckily we came through it. So on that point, and now that I'm helping 2 friends who are having difficulties with newly started horses, is figure out and be honest about what temperaments and training you are comfortable with, along with all the other stuff. Horses are generally our hobbies and suppose to be enjoyable.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Good responses!

I'm not competitive or really looking to compete much. I am very into Dressage and serious about progression and bettering myself (and hopefully the horse.) So I don't need anything really fancy but I want something that can do the work. Soundness and mind are definitely top of the list.

I'm small and petite so I have a large range for height. I prefer geldings but will look at mares too (I've ridden lots although mostly owned geldings,) looking at off breeds and of course any color. Cool with green but want something started for sure. Not looking for a crazy project.

I have a very specific temperament and personality type that I enjoy. I am good at picking a good mind at least.

Trying to decide the age range...

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I’ve bred for everything I ride for years now but I help others to find their horses. For me temperament is first and foremost period. Soundness next. I try to match the horse to the rider. We go out knowing usually that the training is not going to be what we want. Though the last one we found a OTTB g 10 schooling second level with a temperament to die for has some lovely training on him.

We’ve always looked at off breeds. From a huge young grade gelding to OTTB and gorgeous apha black and white.

Where are you? I have a WB mare that I would part with I just don’t have the time for her. I’m in Georgia

I love riding her but have two already

I'm in Colorado.

[exvet]

I've been doing this for more than a few decades In the beginning I was all over the map, trying to defy family influences (hard core Morgan family), wanting what others had (first Tbs then warmbloods), listening and willing to drink the kool aid of trainers............and after many near misses, all a learning experience and many wonderful horses in their own right, I started to listen to my heart. I knew I wanted something pony, something with a specific 'heart' and body build. Then I went to work doing my homework and kissed a lot of toads and met a lot of awesome mentors with a wealth of information. I found a breed and horse I loved......and guess what? it took the form of an Arabian, a welsh cob and a morgan What that did was open up a wide variety to me.

You have received excellent advice. A list of must have's and won't budge on traits is key. Then looking at those individuals who might have failed at what their breeders or first owners intended can definitely lead you to reasonable diamonds in the rough. I find defining a type first (not breed but type) really can open multiple doors for you. I also am staunch, I mean staunch on not wavering on temperament/disposition one bit especially if you're not in a position to cache a 'project' away like some with land and resources. I ended up breeding because it was a challenge to find what I wanted and in recent years I found myself purchasing two individuals. In both cases I saw something that 'caught' my eye and met my type. In the end their disposition is what sold me on them. I haven't regretted my decisions and have been happy with my purchases. I still hold my last bred, near and dear to my heart because he ticks off all the boxes; but, that's a labor of love that requires significant investment of time as well as resources. Of the 4 I own, 3 have dispositions that can't be beat and two of them were purchases. It's their character (and believe me they are all characters), that above all else makes me smile every time I walk out to my barn. I'm a vet so it goes without saying that from the beginning of my interest and assessment of a prospect or one that hits my ranch ground (at birth) they're receiving a vet exam so I'm not discounting soundness but I think the mind is the first and foremost thing that must be sound.

[piedmontfields]

When I was last horse shopping, I made a very clear list of "must-haves" and "nice to haves." Most of the "must haves" focussed on temperament, rideability and soundness. The nice to haves included size, feel, gait quality, amount of training. After a 10 month search, I got everything on both lists when I found my mare. It is possible and it is worth figuring out what you really want--in a realistic way for your talent and budget.

BTW, some people have a hard time doing this. In those cases, working with a good professional is money well spent to find an excellent match.

[blob]

Trying to decide the age range...

Don't let age scare you! sometimes good deals are for horses that are greener than where they should be based on age. So not necessarily crazy green, but a horse that is TL at age 14, for example.

Dressage horses have a lot of life and if they vet well they can truly go forever. I would cast a wide net with age and go for 4--16. Just my 2 cents.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@blob right now my age range is about that. I don't want too green of an older horse though. Green older horses and green babies ride differently in my experience so far- I enjoy riding the babies. But an uncomplicated older horse would be fine, if I can find one in my budget.

@exvet I totally agree with the mind thing. And I definitely won't budge on that!!

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Thinking about type. I'm partial to Thoroughbreds/ottbs. I just get along with them well. I enjoy their work ethic, good minds, intelligence and sensitivity.

But I'm so small, I'm definitely interested in trying some smaller horses. I like the smaller size, if I can just find something to ride the way I like. Still looking at the mustang pony ( hoping to ride him soon.) But I'm also pondering things like Morgans or even Arabian crosses. I've always been very biased against Arabians. But I've ridden a few and gotten along with them just fine so figure I can look there too.

[exvet]

There are definitely lines of TBs that produce smaller, especially some of the one used for sport type breeding as opposed to the track. I saw one for sale recently in this area that was 15.1 and very tempting. The working western lines of Morgan may be more your type too. Brandon definitely reminds more of the Tb or appendix QH style as opposed to the more cobby body style than the Lippits and somewhat saddlebred type of the show and government lines. Of course he's only 3 so I do expect him to round out a bit once he's done growing. At one time in my life I swore I would never own an Arabian and ate those words at least 5 times and never had any regrets. Earned my bronze on a Bey Shah son who still holds a part of my heart as well as my kids'. He was a great horse. Good luck with your search.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@exvet a little, sound TB would be awesome.

I'm definitely willing to look at a lot of different breeds. My one caveat to travel is I usually like to at least have 3 potential horses lined up in the area. Traveling for one specific horse is too risky imo. I just end up spending so much traveling.

[blob]

@blob right now my age range is about that. I don't want too green of an older horse though. Green older horses and green babies ride differently in my experience so far- I enjoy riding the babies. But an uncomplicated older horse would be fine, if I can find one in my budget.

I do think there are many different types of greenness. A horse doing a career switch is going to be green to dressage, but not in terms of being green to carrying a rider and going w-t-c. So, I think being open to dressage greenness rides very differently than overall greenness!

[Chisamba]

so I have a few pitfalls I see people fall into often.

1. rather underestimate than overestimate you abilities. I have seen so many people buy a quirky horse because they didn't realize how good their previous horse was to them.

2. if its cheap there is a reason. that fabulous moving warmblood that is cheap will probably kill you.

3. " he was abused" before I got him. no, he probably wasn't. he was probably trained by someone better and kinder than you and is " quirky"

4. I have seen prior turn down a perfect sixteen year old because it was too old. if its still sound at sixteen, I bet you will be able to ride it til it's 26, but that 6 year old might be lame by sixteen.

try and research breed tendencies, like PSSM, HYPP etc.

every one else covered the other bases

[Lipsmackerpony88]

so I have a few pitfalls I see people fall into often.

1. rather underestimate than overestimate you abilities. I have seen so many people buy a quirky horse because they didn't realize how good their previous horse was to them.

2. if its cheap there is a reason. that fabulous moving warmblood that is cheap will probably kill you.

3. " he was abused" before I got him. no, he probably wasn't. he was probably trained by someone better and kinder than you and is " quirky"

4. I have seen prior turn down a perfect sixteen year old because it was too old. if its still sound at sixteen, I bet you will be able to ride it til it's 26, but that 6 year old might be lame by sixteen.

try and research breed tendencies, like PSSM, HYPP etc.

every one else covered the other bases

So much yes to this! I get a lot of friends sending me freakishly cheap horses (some warmbloods.) Like $1500. They think what a deal! You can handle sensitive! I tell them no thanks, not looking for anything like that!! If it seems way too good to be true it usually is. People think I'm pessimistic about it but I think I'm just realistic.

I don't want a huge project. I really don't at this point in my life. I'd rather have a sane and sound medicore mover than a fancy moving project or difficult horse. I just want to get to riding. I'm so burnt out on just paying vet bills and not riding. Not that I'll never have issues again, I just don't want major issues. And I definitely don't want to lose another horse to said issues.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

One thing that's slightly worrying to me is in my region we really don't have EPM or Lyme. So I'm terrified about some how getting a horse from another region with this. I'm familiar with EPM from living in the Midwest growing up. I am sure this isn't a true concern but I'm paranoid now about my luck!

[Ryeissa]

I made a list.

My horse met 14 of the 15 criteria , I had to give a bit on height going to 14.3 and small body, and did a lot of "makeover" spa work (ie- close your eyes for the first 6 months)

Also, my horse wasn't for sale, it was a private transaction via my trainer. The best horses sometimes just go too quick to be advertized. My first horse Rye was the same way. Never "on the market"

Best of luck!

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I will say that even though I've been riding for gosh 25 years, I'm a medicore rider. I really should be better than I am now but I'm not very natural at it imo. I have lost 3 horses in those 25 years (one to a shattered coffin bone, one to trigeminal nerve pain and now to Wobblers.) That and having a child means I've definitely had interruptions in my riding. I've also had a few really awesome horses too. And healthy. It's just the last few years that have been tragic.

Everyone (trainers, clinicians, friends) tell me I'm soft, quiet and kind. I see so much to work on though and I get obsessed with position at times. I'm not a gutsy rider at all. You will never see me doing cross country courses, big jumps or scary mountain trails! Dressage is what I love. Not great at it, but I enjoy it everything about it.

That being said I'm not timid either. I have ridden many many horses over the years being a working student, exercise riding for boarders, catch riding for friends. Through that I've found a decent idea of what I like or do not like. I can deal with some nerves and spooks. But I really want an easy going horse. I want it to be fun!

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@Ryeissa my range is so big that I'm really hoping it helps me! I just have to try to be extra open minded.

Right now my requirements are: 14 hands to 17h. Gelding preferred but absolutely will consider the right mare.

Nearly any breed. Any color.

At least solidly walk trot and canter. Good feet. Friendly personality. Not too lazy, I can't stand that nor do well with that. Generally just a good work ethic and mind. If it spooks, I want the type that comes right back and forgets about it (with rider support.)

Is this too vague? Sometimes it's hard because I think I just need to ride and vet them to truly know.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Age range I was thinking more 3 to 12. But I would consider an older horse depending on price and training, room to progress too.

I'm 32. I have a joint disorder but it's not affecting me horribly yet. I do think old age might be hard. So I guess my thinking was that when I'm older I need to step away from the young ones. This might be my last younger horse but I guess no one has a crystal ball.

[Sue B]

I basically am a lifelong TB rider (even my Belgian WB is half TB) so I have a few opinions about them.

Tb's in general are known for Wobbler's, KS, roaring etc, etc, but examination of the pedigree may help you weed out some of that. There are a ton of small (under 16hh) TB's out there which tend to go for a lower price than the tall ones and tend to be less likely to have Wobbler's disease. Obviously, feet can be an issue in any horse, so stay away from anyone requiring special shoes at a young age. With my last purchase, I made the mistake of assuming the underslung heals were a result of foot neglect and living in mud--nope, horse has pancake feet that my shoer struggles to keep in good shape. Lesson learned, that's the last horse I'll buy whose feet aren't "perfect." Kissing spine is a crap shoot in my mind, I don't have a good way to know which horse will have a problem, so can't help there. It is a rare TB that is too laid back, many are too reactive, so trainability and personality are crucial in my mind.

All that said, here are the TB's (and crosses) I have owned and their "type"

Right on Leon (Willie): Highly reactive, super sensitive, extremely smart and one of the best partners I've ever lucked into owning. Perfect feet, beautiful dressage gaits, scopey jumper, true all arounder, stood about 16.1hh. Unfortunately, I was a teener when I bought him and had to sell him to pay for vet school. Loved that little horse to the moon and back.
Erin: Appendix quarter horse: DashforCash bred, don't recommend, but she was a pretty darn good mountain horse
Wintertime Sparkle (Scotty): Son of Seattle Slew. Was given to me after being ruined (severely abused) by another trainer. He was a roarer (had tie-back surgery as a 2yr old), had mild shivers and narcolepsy. He also had pancake feet with thin soles and contracted heals that required many years to stabilize. I have avoided Seattle Slew horses since based on that. Personality-wise, he eventually became incredibly kind, forgiving and very trainable--I do believe that is a SS/Mr. Prospector characteristic.
Green Eyed Lad (Laddie): Extremely reactive, prone to ulcers, but incredibly honest and sweet. Excellent feet despite all 4 being white, no neuro problems at all, never unsound. Lots of Northern dancer in his breeding. He was 16.3hh, lightly built, gorgeous dressage gaits.
Road to Albuquerque (Rudy): I bought him because of his breeding and personality, not his conformation! He is a grandson of Alydar (love Alydar), decent gaits, small (15.3hh), has perfect feet (can go with or without shoes) and hasn't taken a lame step in the almost 10 years I've owned him. Trainability-wise, his conformation limits him somewhat, but he will try to do absolutely anything I ask. Not good form over fences, not does he like to jump (over-thinks the whole thing). He is extremely athletic, fairly reactive, and the epitome of the kindness and loyalty TB's are known for. His sire was Cowboy Magic, who was a million dollar stakes horse--not ideal breeding for dressage. I wouldn't trade him for all the money in the world.
Ferrero (Tio): His dam is a TB but I never researched her pedigree (probably should have) and his sire was Valentino Z, a semi-famous sire of jumpers and hunters. He has crummy feet, stands about 16.1 and is built like a brick outhouse. I vacillate between love and annoyance with this horse, but I think it's because of those darn WB traits that keep cropping up. He is pretty much unflappable, has a beautiful, natural scopiness over jumps and soso gaits. I bought him to be my "old lady" horse, but he's the one who broke my back. His crummy feet cause soundness issues on occasion, otherwise no evidence of any KS, Wobbler's, Shivers etc. He is an airfern who has to wear a muzzle since my horses are out 24/7.

[Ryeissa]

@Ryeissa my range is so big that I'm really hoping it helps me! I just have to try to be extra open minded.

Right now my requirements are: 14 hands to 17h. Gelding preferred but absolutely will consider the right mare.

Nearly any breed. Any color.

At least solidly walk trot and canter. Good feet. Friendly personality. Not too lazy, I can't stand that nor do well with that. Generally just a good work ethic and mind. If it spooks, I want the type that comes right back and forgets about it (with rider support.)

Is this too vague? Sometimes it's hard because I think I just need to ride and vet them to truly know.

yeah, sounds like a list to me
I knew I liked the general realm of the half arabs/part breds, no TBs, no drafts so I knew a type/style. I knew i would go smaller vs larger.
Basically i rode once and knew I needed to buy my horse. And here we are.

[Josette]

Regarding TBs - the TB I lost was my soul horse - he was my heart. I purchased him as a green 4 yr old from a local breeder who bred for show hunters. He was just shy of 16 hands so I was able to purchase him privately - via a trainer reference. I will assume that because he was never raced (he did have JC papers but no tatoo) that made a huge difference in his easy temperament and sane brain. He was the sweetest and safest horse I have ever owned. His breeding was Bold Ruler, Bull Lea and Princequillo. He looked like a double image of Bull Lea pictures right down to his white markings. So I will always love a good TB.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Sue B thanks for that! I've owned 3 TB's. One was a war horse and still sound with age appropriate maintenance today 20. Sensitive but such a good work ethic. More forward type. Good boy.
One flunked out at the track. Great feet, great mind. Very sensible but athletic. But he had trigeminal nerve pain and things go down hill when you are in chronic pain.

The last and third one was Transworld bred. But very very linebred. Nice looking guy, fabulous mind! Not too forward, not lazy. Great work ethic. And bad feet and Wobblers apparently.

I'm definitely wary of any seattle slew bred horses just because of the chance of Wobblers. Ditto with large, young horses. Mine wasn't very big though.

I honestly will probably be x-raying all necks and backs from now on. Oh and always feet.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Ryeissa, that's how I am. I typically know when I sit on them! Although sometimes I wonder if I should give some more of a chance with more rides. But I guess I don't want something that feels like it's baseline will be a challenge. I want to feel very comfortable with the horse and just really enjoy it from the get go. Glad you found a horse that so far is that for you

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@josette nothing beats a good TB for sure. They will always have a special place in my heart. Both OTTB's and non raced have been awesome in my book. Still I know it's looking through coal to find the diamond sometimes.

[Ryeissa]

Ryeissa, that's how I am. I typically know when I sit on them! Although sometimes I wonder if I should give some more of a chance with more rides. But I guess I don't want something that feels like it's baseline will be a challenge. I want to feel very comfortable with the horse and just really enjoy it from the get go. Glad you found a horse that so far is that for you

Agree!
Its like a first date. The horse might get better, or not, or worse, but that is what you have then and you have to have some sort of feel that it's ok. You don't have any assurance of improvement.
I can only afford one horse, I board, and I have showing/clinic/training goals so I had a baseline I needed. I don't like green horses, it's not where my skills are. My horse needed a LOT of work but had the right feeling, contact, and really really good canter. I could bring out the rest with time. It was an easy ride and 8 yrs later the horse NEVER has let me down, ever.

[khall]

Rye I loved Riot from that first video. He has so much try.

[Ryeissa]

Rye I loved Riot from that first video. He has so much try.

yea! he's the best. 16 yrs old now and going strong.

[Chisamba]

I feel that the American thoroughbred is mostly bred for only one career, speed. just my opinion. I personally think there are many good horses that beat a good thoroughbred. a good quarter horse, a good Andalusian, a good Arabian, a good DHH, a good Morgan, a good haflinger, a good cob. a good Irish Draft. a good connemara, a good Cleveland bay, in my opinion I would pick absolutely any and all of those over a good thoroughbred. I apologize to the thoroughbred lovers amoung us. thoroughbreds do deserve to have people who love them

[Ponichiwa]

My most recent horse purchase is not maybe the path for everyone. I saw an ad for a palomino 5yo unbroke QH stallion on my local craigslist. Went out to visit, and he'd been in a stall long enough that he wasn't fit enough to canter more than 5 steps in the roundpen. But the price was right, and he has a super cute face and a sound trot, so I took a chance. I figured my training chops are decent enough I can put a year or two of work in him and he'll be a decent ammy horse.

2 years later, he's schooling 2nd and touching bits of 3rd (solid halfpass but the flying changes aren't confirmed). He's unflappable, and can take a joke (which is good, because apparently I've lost all my training chops). I haven't shown him much-- just a couple schooling shows-- but he's scored mid-60s every time with 7s for gaits. We're toying with square turns in the canter and half-steps in the trot. Sure, extensions are not going to be his party trick, but he's got a bottomless well of try.

I've started seeing other repurposed QH types out and about in the local dressage scene. The breed-show graduates who are maybe too big-moving to be really competitive are really cute. They typically have a decent amount of training on them (i.e. TOH, TOF) and I've seen a couple go from just-bought to locally competitive with their happy amateurs at the USEF levels in relatively short order. If you have a healthy breed show (AQHA, APHA, some of the Arabians, etc.) population nearby, recommend giving those guys a look.

[khall]

Ponichiwa and you can do both WD and regular dressage!

I’ve seen some lovely moving QH

Chisamba I think as far as TBs go it really just depends. It’s hard to find movement mind and soundness. Though we found two for a good friend of mine. Not going to be FEI level horses but good solid citizens for her. Actually very nice movers and she’s more of a limitation than they are (isn’t that usually the case!)

I do want to add that I personally had one OTTB g that had a difficult temperament but phenomenal movement. Was offered $10,000 for him at one point by a pro FEI rider. He could extend trot with the best of them. Found passage EASY and changes a breeze. When his mind was good he was an incredible horse to ride. He found dressage very easy. He fell apart soundness wise at 3 rd level more from bad farrier than him. Never really recaptured his momentum
I personally love the Iberians but they are not cheaply priced

[Srhorselady]

I’ve been VERY lucky with most of my horses, but I wanted to comment on the two thoroughbreds. One was small , maybe 15.2, with excellent feet, work ethic, and temperament. He was born a twin so probably part of the size issue. He was a mediocre race horse, an excellent pony horse, a good hunter/jumper school horse, and a good trail horse. I rode him until 28 and he died at 33. The second my uncle bought as a yearling race horse. He was a good race horse when his feet were good, he had flat feet. When he retired he did jumpers up to almost Grand Prix and was a champion equitation horse. He sat in a pasture for two years and I inherited him at 19 And started him in dressage. He did 3rd level in his mid 20s. He died at 30 and was trail ridden up until his last week. Although his feet took Maintanance I have a good farrier and he was never lame for me. He was 16.3, loved people, and would try anything for his rider. What these two Geldings had in common was Princequillo. He was grand sire of one and double great grandSire of the other. I think that wonderful temperament In both these horses came from him. I’d buy a thoroughbred linebred to Princequillo any day of the week. Although I only had one and all horses are individuals...I’d skip halterbred quarter horses. Lots of health issues Including bad feet and a “make me” attitude.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@Chisamba I totally get what you are saying and I understand why. It's just that I have enjoyed nearly every TB I've ever sat on. I've enjoyed some WB's and I've hated some. Enjoyed some QH's, hated some. I have hated every Haflinger.

Like I saw someone else post, it really depends on the horse and type. At this point in my life, especially since I don't wish to really compete, I think buying what you enjoy is pretty important. And maybe I will find a good Connemara or Morgan or whatever. I'm open to it.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Ponichiwa, I actually had a QH that was a HUS (that's what I bought him for at the time) and we switched to Dressage. He was extremely talented and my trainer thought he could do at least PSG easily. Sadly he shattered his coffin bone in the pasture.

But you are in inspiration! I know SO many people rocking the dressage world with their "off breed" mounts. That's my crowd!

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I’ve been VERY lucky with most of my horses, but I wanted to comment on the two thoroughbreds. One was small , maybe 15.2, with excellent feet, work ethic, and temperament. He was born a twin so probably part of the size issue. He was a mediocre race horse, an excellent pony horse, a good hunter/jumper school horse, and a good trail horse. I rode him until 28 and he died at 33. The second my uncle bought as a yearling race horse. He was a good race horse when his feet were good, he had flat feet. When he retired he did jumpers up to almost Grand Prix and was a champion equitation horse. He sat in a pasture for two years and I inherited him at 19 And started him in dressage. He did 3rd level in his mid 20s. He died at 30 and was trail ridden up until his last week. Although his feet took Maintanance I have a good farrier and he was never lame for me. He was 16.3, loved people, and would try anything for his rider. What these two Geldings had in common was Princequillo. He was grand sire of one and double great grandSire of the other. I think that wonderful temperament In both these horses came from him. I’d buy a thoroughbred linebred to Princequillo any day of the week. Although I only had one and all horses are individuals...I’d skip halterbred quarter horses. Lots of health issues Including bad feet and a “make me” attitude.

Super inspiration!! Thank you for sharing. My Wobblers horse actually had Princequillo I believe... Although doubt that is relevant. I will say he had a GREAT attitude, great neck, hind leg, work ethic.

And I owned a halter bred QH mare once. SO lazy and yes a make me attitude!! Spot on.

[StraightForward]

Hearing more about your situation, I think a cross-bred horse that is being used on trails or similar would be perfect. There aren't that may quarabs around lately it seems, but I've known some nice ones. You might also look into Aztecas or other Andalusian crosses. There is a lady in northern Idaho who finds unregistered Iberian crosses and restarts them for dressage, usually within the price range you're looking for. Some are quite nice, but usually too small for me. While there are some nice QH or paint breed show types out there, my hesitancy is that they are so often started and worked hard at two. Of course, you might find one that slipped through the cracks for whatever reason and didn't get worked hard too early.

[Chisamba]

when I think of Good quarter horses, I admit I'm thinking of working ranch bed horses, not the halter types. the ddbb last who died dressage and Western on her quarter horses would be an excellent person to ask

[Ponichiwa]

when I think of Good quarter horses, I admit I'm thinking of working ranch bed horses, not the halter types. the ddbb last who died dressage and Western on her quarter horses would be an excellent person to ask

Chisamba, I was thinking the same. The halter types haven't been bred for rideability/brains or movement, and there are some really tough temperaments in the lines that have been popular for a while in the halter breeding crowd. Not my cup of tea.

@kelo can provide some great steer here-- I asked her about my guy's lines and she was spot-on re: temperament and functionality.

For dressage purposes, you need 3 clear gaits that have some adjustability, and a brain that's willing to let you get in there and really reshape their way of going. I have a very fancy GRP mare that is now essentially on early retirement because while her gaits are tremendous and she's got miles of talent, she's got a very limited tolerance for my input as a rider and it was stressing both of us out. Meanwhile, my little QH "sales project" has a default setting of try-hard and hasn't said no to anything. Even though he's not as scopey as horses in my past, the trainability really compensates for it.

Also, not sure of your non-dressage life, but I've found a lot of value in the kind of brain that can take an interruption in their daily training schedule (e.g. traveling for work, whatever) and come back to work as if they hadn't missed anything. Again, that's something my QH has in spades and my WBs of the past.... not so much.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

The ranch, foundation bred QH are nice. But around here are mostly sold by Auction or are typically $15k plus. They are using them and valuable to people!

I did have a friend that had one that was really pigeon toed but was very nice besides that. She sold grade because they didn't want her papers tracked back to her, but you could tell she was bred need nicely besides the conformation flaw.

[Chisamba]

I am wasting time at the airport looking at horses in Colorado for sale. are you near Fort Collins i saw y the mustangs ad i think

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I am wasting time at the airport looking at horses in Colorado for sale. are you near Fort Collins i saw y the mustangs ad i think

About an hour from Fort Collins. And yep I bet you saw him.

[Kelo]

I can weigh in here as a subject matter expert on the QH topic.

I think it's important to understand that Quarter Horses come in a number of types now, due to being bred for specific activities...you can almost think of them as different breeds.

So a horse bred for halter is not the same as one bred for hunter which is not the same as western performance horses. Even within the western performance genre, a cutter is a cousin to, but not the exact same as, a ranch horse. Now, those groups overlap in many ways, but there are tendencies within them. So while I am a QH person, I personally am only interested in cow-bred ones. Because of what I want in a horse, I wouldn't touch a halter-bred horse if it were free.

But within the western performance group, there are sub groups - reiners, cutters, reined cow horses, ranch horses. Each of those have a ton of crossover but also bloodlines and tendencies that are helpful in their sport. So the reining bloodlines tend to be a bit more amateur-friendly minded horses, and tend to move low headed. The cutters can tend to be hotter, small and lack bone. The ranch horses tend to have good bone and are a little more all-purpose and less athletic. The reined cow horses are the eventers of the western world, so they're more of a mix of all of the above.

I'd never recommend a halter horse, but a cow horse would do dressage and do it well. I know of quite a few doing upper level work, and they're almost all cow bred.

I recall Ponichiwa's horse as being cow bred with strong ranch tendencies.

My horse -- who is knocking on the door to becoming an official Grand Prix horse -- is old-school cutting bred.

My filly is cutting bred, too. I don't think she'll get past Third, but even now she doesn't get worked up about anything, and I think when she's grown up, she'll go in and score a 60 every time with amateur mom, and then give a pony ride to mom's kid on the way back to the stall, and I know a lot of people who want that, not some upper level snort monster that needs a professional handler.

As Ponichiwa says, it's their mind and heart, not their conformation. If you're an amateur, it also depends on your goals, and that's not all riding. Like, Grand Prix is great, but my horses live in my backyard and I need something that won't kill my mother when she goes in to clean pens, you know? Priority one. And I like riding something that will cooperate so that I can have fun, whether that's in the arena or on the trail. Priority two. So the actual physical dressage ability is more like priority three.

But, yes, the price on good Quarter Horses is solid right now. There's always bargains, but in general if you want a good one that has been trained and will last you forever, you're gonna need to pay up. I'd say $7,500-15,000 is the rock bottom base for a decent one. This one's sold now, but here's an example of what I'm talking about: http://valleyviewranch.net/HH-Red-Cat.htm (These folks are professional horse traders so I feel OK sharing this page). This fella is from bloodlines I like a LOT, he's a good mover, he's broke, he's sensible, and a dressage rider could have a helluva lotta fun with him for many, many years. If I were in the market and had that money I would've been on him in a heartbeat, when he came up available.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Khall I definitely don't mind getting a quarter horse if it's sound and athletic enough. I grew up with QH's and paints, all types.

The Dressage trainer I started my journey with years ago self trained and got all her medals with a QH

[piedmontfields]

If you like TBs and are small, another breed or cross to watch out for are Connemaras. They are talented and generally hardy.

I don't know your budget, but Pam Liddell breeds some nice ones and some have really excelled in dressage:
https://www.facebook.com/kynfarm/