training to self-load

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training to self-load

Postby blob » Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:54 pm

I wasn't sure where to put this since it's not really 'dressage training' but it is training!

As many of you know, MM had a trailer accident that resulted in me having to re-train her to load on a trailer. We've come a looong way. But one of the challenges is that it's currently very dependent on two people. Before the accident, I used to be able to lead her up and tie and then come around and do the butt bar. But now, I don't really feel comfortable tying her until the butt bar is up. But I'd like to get her to a place where I can get her fully loaded with just one person (me!).

So, I'd love to teach her to self load and so once she's up, I can close the butt bar and then go up to the front and tie her. But I've never taught a horse to self-load before and don't really know where to start! I know some of you here have done so before, so, I was hoping to get some tips/tricks/strategies.

In general her ground handling understanding is pretty good. She knows how to be sent away from me, circle around me, change directions with me still standing in one spot, she'll back up when I walk backwards, etc. But I think a lot of the things she does in normal circumstances don't fully translate to the trailer currently because it's still something she's a bit weary of.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby StraightForward » Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:21 pm

I've been using Tristan Tucker's method with Tesla, and it has worked well. Basically the idea is to make the trailer the most comfortable place to be. It's easiest in a trailer with a ramp, but should work with a step-up as well. First you might want to teach the horse to step forward from your cue into a place they're more comfortable with, like into our out of a stall or wash rack. Teach the horse to go partway in, back out, etc. so you have control of the feet and they aren't just rushing through the door. The horse learns to rest at any point, and then move calmly forward or back from the place where you ask them to stop. Then you can move to the trailer. Basically you stand at the back corner of the trailer, and ensure that the horse is facing the trailer. Have a carrot stick that you can tap them on the hip with, as well as using it to bring up and get them out of your space if the horse tries to bring it's head over to avoid facing into the trailer. The trick is to stop them going in before the point where they decide to back out on their own, and teach them to reliably step forward with taps on the butt from the carrot stick. If the horse does come out of the trailer on its own, calmly but emphatically move them through Tristan's pattern, which is basically alternating bending in both directions, and stepping back and way from the handler, so that being out of the trailer is work, and then when they face the trailer, or go in by increments, they get to rest.

Hope that makes sense!
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby Kelo » Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:00 pm

I used John Lyon's trailer training program, you might look that up as it's good, common-sense training.

I think the key of it is to break down every step onto the trailer to eliminate any anxiety. So teaching them to approach the trailer, put one foot on the trailer, rest, and take it off, one foot on, rest, take it off, etc, then two feet on, rest, take them off, etc, then three feet on, take them off, then four on and right back off. The point of all that is making the horse comfortable with every bit of it, and also teaching them to be comfortable not only getting on but staying on and getting off. So it's not just training them to get on the trailer and then rushing to hold them in there.

I also always feed my horses in the trailer something highly desirable -- alfalfa or even grain, and to me that really helps.

You could also use a doorway, like a stall or some such, to practice self-loading - ie teaching them to walk with you, then being able to stop, and send them forward through the entry without you.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:27 pm

Also, remain cognizant of the requirements of your horse. My new horse has a loading problem. It is actually a leading problem. I need to do a LOT of work on the ground to turn her into a reliable loader, and 75% of it will be away from the trailer. She is an anxious horse so if your energy raises even in the slightest, hers skyrockets, and her brain leaves. So, all trailer sessions have to be super low energy. Some other horses are OK with the energy going up, they don't lose their brains. This horse has been rushed and has been forced, so she needs to learn and understand that she's OK to pause, to slow down, to take one step at a time, and she's actually OK to leave.

2 hours to load her to bring her home, 30 and 45 min sessions yesterday to trailer her to get her shoes taken off (the farrier was at my friend's place, all of 2miles away). Already making progress, now to solidify the instructions on the ground so they're more reliable in the vicinity of the trailer.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:10 pm

silk wrote:Also, remain cognizant of the requirements of your horse.


Yes, this is key in my case because for MM it is very much a trailer problem--specifically getting off the trailer. She does not want to get on because she does not want to have to get off. Before her accident she would walk right up every time no hesitation. But now she has a fear rooted in a reality. So it's really hard to practice it other than to use a trailer. And many of the baby steps in between she is very very comfortable with. She will come stand halfway on all day, every day without hesitation. The only real way to practice it without a trailer would be if I had some kind of free standing ramp or step down to work with.

I will look up some of the methods suggested here and see what might work.

Right now she does much better without any pressure from behind, though in general she understands the cue of a whip/carrot stick to move. i can get her to lead into a chute with me standing to the side like you would for a trailer, no problem. it's specifically the trailer that has her worked up.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Mon Oct 26, 2020 7:55 pm

The first thing I'd highly recommend is teaching her to take one step, with whichever leg you specify, in the direction you specify. Only ONE step: not two, three, ten or fifty. Often a horse who backs out in a rush doesn't feel confident about the backing, so break that piece down into just one step at a time.
Once you have them thinking in this way, you can begin to walk a few steps forward, stop, one back, then change it up (1-3 steps in each direction before a change of direction, repeat several times so they're slowly yo-yoing back and forwards).
With loading, this becomes not loading the whole way in. Just one or two forwards, one back. One or two forwards, one or two back. One forwards, two back. Etc etc etc. When done correctly, they start offering the next direction, and are usually very happy about it. My mare (many years ago now) started putting herself into the trailer freely once she realised she had freedom.

Additionally, could backing over a pole or up a step help? backing over a pole onto a piece of ply or other "different surface" (eg backing from grass onto concrete with a pole at the junction of the surfaces).
I have started doing this with my young horse who's biggest thing is fear of being contained. Of course, no, I hadn't taught her to tie, and I hadn't put her under pressure in a controlled setting to allow her to work through being under too much pressure and coming out of that zone safely. Part of my practice with her has been backing along the front of my shed, with a tarp strung up to turn it into a sort of laneway/enclosed area. At either end of the paving stones there is a small step (maybe 2 inches in height change to the grass) that she's now learning to back up. I haven't yet got as far as I'd like to with the on-ground practice so haven't introduced the trailer again to see how her reaction differs there (but, she is fine to lead, load, step up, back out, and not rush; it was being contained and not understanding what to do when contained and worried about that).

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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:00 pm

blob wrote:Yes, this is key in my case because for MM it is very much a trailer problem--specifically getting off the trailer. She does not want to get on because she does not want to have to get off. Before her accident she would walk right up every time no hesitation. But now she has a fear rooted in a reality. So it's really hard to practice it other than to use a trailer. And many of the baby steps in between she is very very comfortable with. She will come stand halfway on all day, every day without hesitation. The only real way to practice it without a trailer would be if I had some kind of free standing ramp or step down to work with.


I feel like her safe place is two feet in, two feet out, so you need to work up to 'three feet in', at which point 4 feet will be a very easy thing for her.
I would recommend not letting her hang about at the two-in place. Sure, do it slowly and kindly, but definitely not just waiting ad infinitum. Ask her something, even if that is just to move the hind leg/s towards the trailer, then away from it, while she has the front two inside.

Another thing I've done on the ground, not specifically for trailer loading, is to use a pole with the one-step work. You want them to take one foot over a pole, then stop, and only move the next leg when you ask. Separating their legs over a barrier/object is REALLY HARD. The fronts are easier than the hinds, too.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby Chisamba » Mon Oct 26, 2020 11:15 pm

I use the method described by Silk. i will teach the horse to step over a pole, a tarp, or a barrel, and stop, not leap on over or back off. I like to be able to whoa the horse half way in, and back it out, i may practice over a tarp first. I like to be able to whoa the horse half way out, and then bring it back in again too.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:42 am

Chisamba wrote:I use the method described by Silk. i will teach the horse to step over a pole, a tarp, or a barrel, and stop, not leap on over or back off. I like to be able to whoa the horse half way in, and back it out, i may practice over a tarp first. I like to be able to whoa the horse half way out, and then bring it back in again too.



Yes this is good advice. But she will step over a pole, tarp, raised cavelletti, etc. exactly as many steps as I want her to, she will stop half through or not. I did SO much of this kind of ground work when I first gentled her and it's stuck, which is good and useful now. Except that many of these intermediate steps are totally no big deals for her.

Right now I can successfully load her on the trailer without it taking long, it took many months, but she will load. It's not a swift full momentum step on like it used to be. She now has some hesitation, but she will put one foot in front of the other and move fully forward (no going backwards) and will back up slowly at my request to unload. The issue is that it is fully a two person job right now. I can't leave her and go get the butt bar. So, I need to teach to self-load.

I can self load her into a squeeze chute or over tarp or send her over a jump. I can get her to back up on cue without leading her back. It's just that none of this translates to the trailer for her. So the work I will have to do will have to be with the trailer itself. But looks like there are some good suggestions for methods to try in this thread with the trailer itself.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:18 am

Ahh, that makes sense. It's the balance with "upping the ante" while keeping within learning ability.

With my previous horse, I did many many years of trailer loading. Every time we went somewhere, we would do 5-15 minutes of practice, both ends of each trip. It seemed overkill but definitely helped her be a '5 minute" loader.

Self loading is just asking the horse the same thing - get in - whilst going past you. It helps to have a 12ft lead so you don't accidentally tug on the lead while they are passing you.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:38 pm

silk wrote:Ahh, that makes sense. It's the balance with "upping the ante" while keeping within learning ability.

With my previous horse, I did many many years of trailer loading. Every time we went somewhere, we would do 5-15 minutes of practice, both ends of each trip. It seemed overkill but definitely helped her be a '5 minute" loader.

Self loading is just asking the horse the same thing - get in - whilst going past you. It helps to have a 12ft lead so you don't accidentally tug on the lead while they are passing you.



Yes! I really wish I'd taught her to self load back when she was a super easy loader. Ah well, hindsight is 20-20. Another benefit of the self-loading will be that in this 'retraining' process with the trailer i've found that she really does best when she's given space to make her own decision to get on, rather than being pressured on. My break through with getting her on after the accident was to actually leave her tied to the side of the trailer and walk away when she didn't get on after a few tries. i'd go do something else in the barn -- clean tack, groom a horse, etc. And then come back and try her again. After being tied up a couple times she walked right on the first time because she'd had time to sit there and think about it and decide she would rather get on than stay tied. I luckily don't have to do that anymore. But it was a valuable learning for me about how her brain works.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby khall » Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:13 pm

Blob I once spent two hours with a TB mare I owned (actually Joplin’s grand dam) at the back of the trailer with the dressage whip. I never pressured her to get on but I would not let her not stand and line up to the trailer. She eventually got on being her idea and I never had a problem after that.

A parelli thing is to send them between you and the trailer especially if there is a ramp they have to tromp over. Send them back and forth between you and the entrance to the trailer until they get tired of being sent. Then send them into the trailer so they can rest.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:23 pm

I appreciate the idea of making the horse work outside the trailer, and inside is a place of rest. But! For horses like the one I've just bought - it doesn't work. They get so worked up and stressed that they lose their minds. They stop thinking and just keep reacting... the thoroughbred brain leaves the station. They can run allllllllll day without engaging their brain, and they are no closer to understanding what you actually want them to do, let alone any closer to doing it, but they ARE cranky and overtired and sweaty and stressed out to the max.

The approaches I've seen work on these overreactive horses is where the handler slows it down to 0.01/10. They need you to be prepared to out-wait and out-patience them, until their brain engages again and they decide to do it. Often with a look on their face like "is THAT all you wanted me to do? why didn't you just ask???" ... haha.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby khall » Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:53 pm

Silk there is a bit of difference when you keep changing directions from one side of the trailer to the other in that work. The horse has to think and not just go. Believe me I had a WB that would check out and leave. I used all the parelli work on her for loading on a daily basis for a longtime. I had to go through all the tricks they throw at you but slowly because she was truly terrified of the trailer. Once I got her reliably going in then I fed her breakfast and dinner in the trailer

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Re: training to self-load

Postby heddylamar » Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:07 am

Maia and I had a trailer loading accident a few years ago ago, that resulted in a chipped bone and staples. Before the incident, she self-loaded. Since then, she's given the trailer a hairy eyeball.

With my other horses, I had zero problem convincing them that they should get on the trailer. While teaching them to self load took time, they would always load with two people. Maia is the polar opposite. After the accident she just zoned out. This girl is ruled by her stomach, and it took me 3 months to get her to walk onto the ramp for grain.

Mom thought I was being ridiculous, and decided to "fix" the problem last summer. Mom's fabulous at getting horses on trailers, but I know Maia. So I brought my running shoes and a book. After 4 hours, Maia was no closer to the trailer, and mom was done :shock:

Anyway, over the past several years, I've tried:
- Buck Brannaman (success! Then the accident :| )
- Buck Brannaman :|
- John Lyons (one foot, stop) :lol:
- Bullying her into the trailer :lol:
- Feeding her in the trailer :lol:
- Treats :roll:
- Buck Brannaman :|
- 1-person butt rope (this is a neat tool, if you don't know it)
- Buck Brannaman :|
- Clinton Anderson (back and forth across the ramp) :lol:
- Bullying her into the trailer :lol:
- Feeding her in the trailer :lol:
- Treats :)
- Self-fed treats :roll:
- Buck Brannaman + treats ;)
- Treats :)
- Self-fed treats :roll:
- Buck Brannaman + treats ;)
- Treats :)
- Clinton Anderson (back and forth across the ramp) + treats :D

This afternoon, using the Clinton Anderson method, Maia fully self loaded — and STOOD STILL while I jiggled the butt bar until I asked her to walk out — 12 times. Then she knocked over her treat bucket and decided that was enough :roll: I reset to only half way in, Maia loaded, and I ended the session.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby Boudicea » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:41 am

I would never tie any horse in the trailer before doing the butt bar up no matter how good they are about riding or loading.

John lyons method worked for me but I can't say it helped my horse be more comfortable with the trailer. It just made him more obedient to get on. Perhaps I didn't do it correctly? He does self load reliably but I just don't feel it helped him with feeling safer in the trailer.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby heddylamar » Thu Oct 29, 2020 2:58 pm

Boudicea wrote:I would never tie any horse in the trailer before doing the butt bar up no matter how good they are about riding or loading.


That's sorta the premise of what happened with Maia :|

She was being a pain about self-loading, so I walked her in, tossed her lead over the breast bar, and told her to "wait." She normally ground ties fabulously. I have no clue what went through her mind or what happened with the lead, but by the time I made it 2 steps to the back of the trailer, she was flailing around like a tetherball. It took a few moments of talking to her, but she came to a stop, kneeling, face plastered to the side of the trailer. I was able to unhook the twist panic snap, and get her to stand. We walked away with *only* a chipped cheekbone, several staples, and a bloody shirt.

It's taken several years of dedicated, regular work, to get her to first decide the trailer was okay, then safe, then contemplate loading, etc, etc. Unfortunately, I cannot trailer until she self-loads reliably — I very rarely have a ground person available. But, fortunately, she's now at the point that if there's an emergency the barn owner and I will be able to get her in the trailer without any further trauma.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby Kyra's Mom » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:42 am

I have a point and shoot horse now. She is lovely and was very easy to load. I think I spent about an hour two different times with the trailer pulled into the arena when she was a 2 y.o. and she has been great ever since. Other than the one time I forgot to untie her :oops: . I have the velcro trailer ties and it let go as it should but she wasn't happy and I don't blame her. Even after that episode, getting in wasn't the problem...she wouldn't get out. She needed a little assistance to back out and reassurance that Mother was not a total airhead a couple times then she went back to unloading as she should.

My previous mare was quite a claustrophobic critter and did not think highly of trailers. I could usually get her in but it could take 10 minutes or it could take an hour. That got really old fast. I tried the John Lyons' method with her and got a very different reaction. Tapping on her sent her backwards...in a hurry. Put her in front of a trailer door and start tapping and it was full reverse. Tapping her forward any place else, as long as a trailer wasnt in the vicinity elicited the correct response. I just tapped and tried never to escalate the force of my tap. It was strange. I remember watching Parelli's trailer loading technique and used the parts of that that seemed to work with her. I just really worked on ground work away from the trailer (sending her "in" to a stall, building a chute and sending her into that, backing her into a stall, making use of any small space that I could safely put her in) and I hooked up the trailer at least once a week to practice. If I recall, it took a good 6 month to a year to get her reliable but I did it. Sometimes it just takes a tremendous amount of work. When you think about it, they really have to be trusting to be loaded into a little narrow stall then pulled down the highway :o .

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Re: training to self-load

Postby khall » Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:19 pm

Kyra’s mom you hit the nail on the head trailer loading just takes work like any other training we do with out horses

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:20 am

I've finally had time after injuring myself to do some trailer work and wanted to share an update.

MM already knows how to ground tie, but reinforced that training with walking around behind her and touching her hind end after she'd been told to 'stay'.

Then I took her to the trailer and asked her to lead up while I stood to the side--she knows well how to pass through chutes and over bridges, so she understands being 'sent'. I started by asking it in a small way--just to get her front feet on the ramp and then to 'stay'. I left her to 'stay' for a bit then asked her to back with voice command. Did that a few times and then asked her to come further up--front feet up on trailer, hind feet on the ramp. And then to 'stay'. It took a bit longer to get her to stay in this position and wait but she did and let me come around behind her. I did this twice and called it done.

She is a smart horse and knows what is low stakes (standing part of the way on) and what a risk of being shut in (all the way up AND far enough on for a butt bar to be closed). But I wanted her to understand the cue of being 'sent' up the ramp and then staying put--one of the problems has been her wanting to run backwards off the trailer-- in a way that was going to be easy and successful. It was important to me that she didn't get into a sullen, foot planted state that she can get into when she shuts down. So, i was really happy that she stayed active and interested in what we were doing. Next step will be getting her to get all the way up and staying and letting me touch her butt without her panicking that i'm putting up the butt bar and running back. And then eventually actually closing hte butt bar.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:03 pm

That sounds like great progress, blob!

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:43 pm

silk wrote:That sounds like great progress, blob!


Thanks, Silk! Today she self loaded all the way up a few times and still let me touch all around her butt while she was up.I did have a bucket of alfalfa pellets up waiting for her that definitely helped. She did not however 'stay' up until she was told otherwise. She stayed long enough that I could have gotten the butt bar up. But I want to get her to a place where she is standing all the way up and waiting.

But I am still really pleased that she has taken to walking on up so quickly--so definitely feels like good progress in the right direction!

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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:44 pm

I think breaking the task down is absolutely the correct thing to do and will ultimately result in success.

I am (constantly, still) surprised at the tasks they can do "in entirety" that become/are difficult when broken down, but I suppose that really highlights the level of trust they have in their leader, and the instructions that are given. IE they really do offer us everything!

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Re: training to self-load

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:13 pm

Good work, Blob!

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Tue Nov 24, 2020 6:13 pm

We've had two sessions now where she's loaded on up right away and stayed up either the first or second time up. I have not closed the butt bar, but I have clanged it around and made like i'm closing it without actually latching it.

It's interesting that while I don't think i could have started with self-loading after the accident since she had to be willing to be in the trailer at all again first. But now that we are past that hurdle, i think she is actually doing better with the self loading than she did with me leading her in. In general, she is a horse that likes being given the option to do something rather than being overly pressured.

RP has also been self loading--figured I may as well teach them both!

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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:24 pm

I helped my friend with her gelding. He has been extensively trained with R+ (clicker) and is a food mugger (prior to her buying him). She knows Parelli. He is quite good at stuff on the line but seemed to have a gap with the trailer. She has been working on things in a Parelli type way: he got to the point where he would go in, and immediately back out, so she asked for my help. He seemed to be OK with yo-yo ing, she had been upping the workload outside the trailer and making the inside of the trailer a nice place of rest.

I started with some Connected Groundwork (I have done little bits with him before so he does understand it), in the paddock to ask him to use/engage both hind legs. Then walked quietly up to the trailer and asked for two feet on the ramp.
He wanted to barge and kept his attention outside the trailer by turning his head away, as much as possible.
He also backed out and then turned around to leave.
I worked through that calmly with no whip, until he got more bargey and I picked up wand (to use as an arm extension and prevent him running off). I began asking for all four feet to come into the trailer, then to halt. He offered all the way in several times then immediately out, although each time this changed and a couple of times he paused on the way out, went back in, then out, or stood for a few seconds before moving out.

"Progress" of sorts, he was still barging out/off though.

Then he REALLY upped the ante despite me not asking for anything more than "please put all four feet on the ramp then stop moving forwards". He barged off several times and did a huuuuge back up of about 30m at pace, throwing his head and turning his neck to gain leverage.
Throughout it all I kept looking at the trailer as much as possible with my wand hand out behind me (pointed at his HQ) as a forwards cue.
After he stopped, we walked on and up to the trailer, he loaded calmly and stood for about half a minute, then decided to leave but oddly placed himself sideways as he came out and ended up with all four feet on the ramp, facing sideways. He LOVES his sheath being scratched so my friend decided to do this to reward him. After a decent scratch, off, on, and he stood in the trailer and she was able to give him another scratch for a good minute before we asked him to unload and called it a day.

The next time she tried loading him, he went in several times and waited until she asked him to back out. I think we've cracked him ;) although still have to introduce closing the bum bar and the rest of the jazz.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:12 pm

Silk, in some ways it's a very similar story. MM had gotten to the point after my earlier stint of work where she'd go up right away but keeping her up was harder. Luckily she took to the self loading much better than I thought she would and I didn't have to do deal with too much barging off. Though I did also have the benefit of her knowing how to ground tie and working to apply that principle to the trailer really helped. In fact I found that if she didn't stay on the trailer I would go next to the trailer and reminder her of the ground tying and then moving off on command just on regular ground and then go back to the trailer.

Right now I am still giving her treats (a few alfalfa pellets) as reward, which I'll likely have to wean off as well. Though, I have to say I"m glad I don't have to scratch a sheath for trailer success :lol:

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Re: training to self-load

Postby Anne » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:01 am

I'm appreciating your progress blob, and yours, silk. I have a difficult loader, in fact, he has not been on a trailer since he had a very bad experience in a previous home. I can now get him to walk up confidently, and stand for a little, but then he takes himself out (calmly, but very determined). I stand at the top of the ramp, and he walks past me and gets all 4 feet inside, and I can sometimes scritch his bum, but the longest he has stood is only (guessing) about 20 seconds. I've swung the butt bar against him, which he tolerates, but haven't yet tried to close him in. I'm struggling with getting him to just stand calmly as long as I want him to. I always end with asking him to back out before he decides to.

I've tried putting him to work when he backs off (walk/trot circles in front of the ramp, or back him up a long way, not running back, but not slow either). He always comes straight back on when I ask, but the extra work doesn't seem to affect how long he stands. I've tried practising 2 or 3 times a day for a week or so, then stepped back to once per day. For now I'm just being calmly persistent (have been working on this for over a year, on and off) and hoping he'll get the idea that the trailer is not so scary... but any advice, ideas, encouragement would be appreciated!

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Re: training to self-load

Postby khall » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:51 am

Does anyone feed their horses in the trailer? I did this with a couple of horses. One that was truly terrified to the point of shaking.

Joplin willingly goes in but does not want to stay. I want to get some yummy alfalfa hay for her so she is enticed to stay. What’s odd is that for the return trip she hops in and waits no problem. It’s the initial leaving she gets concerned about.

All my others are good loaders and haulers. Rip is wonderful to take off trailer wise. Now once you get there the first day he will be full of beans! They’ve all been hauled various places. Joplin just needs more of it.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby heddylamar » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:58 am

khall wrote:Does anyone feed their horses in the trailer? I did this with a couple of horses. One that was truly terrified to the point of shaking.


Yes. Food is the only reason I've gotten Maia to step foot in the trailer since our accident.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:08 pm

Weirdly having food up on the trailer made things harder? MM would grab a bite and back off immediately. She was less focused on listening to what I asked for and more interested in getting the food. I'm using treats to reward what I want, but putting grain up in the trailer doesn't work for her. So odd.


Anne--your horse's backing up is very similar to the problems we had/have. What's been helping is applying the stay command to trailer work. Does your horse know how to ground tie or stay? If not, you could start by teaching him that. And then apply it to the trailer once that command is clear and consistent. With MM, I had to it in pieces. 2 legs up and stay as long as I asked. 2 legs in, 2 on ramp and stay. All 4 in and stay. And when she stopped listening, I walked her a few feet away from the trailer and practiced the stay command on solid ground, rewarded the effort and went back to the trailer

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Re: training to self-load

Postby StraightForward » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:23 pm

blob wrote:Weirdly having food up on the trailer made things harder? MM would grab a bite and back off immediately. She was less focused on listening to what I asked for and more interested in getting the food. I'm using treats to reward what I want, but putting grain up in the trailer doesn't work for her. So odd.


I think that's pretty common. Tristan Tucker is against putting feed in the trailer because they get a quick reward going in and backing right out. I do put hay in there once they're loading fairly reliably, because the munching makes standing on the trailer a little more enjoyable.

Glad MM is coming along with the loading; I should take my trailer out and practice with Tesla today. I was trying to at least do one loading session with her between each actual trip, but I've gotten lax on that.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby demi » Thu Nov 26, 2020 5:39 pm

Rocky was 3 when I got her and had never been in a trailer till she went for her PPE. ( :( PPE has a new meaning in 2020). I used food to introduce her and she learned to go in easily. UNTIL I started hauling her to weekly lessons. She would still go in but she got so I usually needed someone to walk behind her while I led her in, and it would take 5-10 minutes. That was very inconvenient. One day I asked my trainer to “fix” her and she has been very reliable since then. Now, she may hesitate very briefly on the trip TO our lesson, but on the way home she usually jumps in the trailer before I can get in myself.

She’s never had any bad experiences like MM, but she had other issues that I was enabling. My trailer is a step up, slant load, and because of my older, arthritic knees, I hesitate on the step up because I need to grab a rope that I use to pull myself up. She of course, would then hesitate, too, sometimes refusing altogether. Plus, she’s hot blooded and probably and alpha mare, and I was trying to “work around” those issues. Rocky I guess, interpreted my “working around” as not really meaning business. The interesting thing is, my trainer took only about 5-10 minutes to show Rocky that her only option was to stay at trainer’s shoulder. She used a whip but ONLY for tap tap tapping. Nothing threatening, nothing harsh. Rocky got really pissed off when she couldn’t call the shots and kicked out behind quite forcefully with one or both hind legs several times, and also ran back wards a long way, but trainer showed NO EMOTION. She just went about it in a VERY business-like manner and Rocky, smart girl that she is, realized that resistance was futile! She’d stay at trainer’s shoulder right up to the step, and if she didn’t continue in, trainer was in the position to touch her but with the whip and she’d hop right in. She loaded her several times that day, taking her right up to the step and sending her in on her own, and then had another session a week later, and Rocky has been very reliable ever since.

Pros have lots of experience and also need to get things done without “wasting” time. My trainer is also a breeder and has lots of experience with all kinds of mares. She also has a natural talent.

So we amateurs do the best we can but it can take us a lot longer. One way or another, it all works out in the end, because our horses really know we care about them. I like what Parelli says, “a horse doesn’t care how much you know, until he knows how much you care”.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby Anne » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:51 pm

Yes, we work on ground tying/staying. He's not super good at it yet, but it's improving. I've been sort of hesitant to stop him on the ramp (ie 2 feet on ramp), because these days he normally walks all the way in when I ask. If I stop the momentum, won't that confuse him? But I'm up for trying a new approach, so will give that a go today. Will report back :-)

That is interesting on feeding inside, working for Maia, but not MM. I did this yesterday, just to see if he'd stand longer. He did, but went in and out a few times - like, not grabbing one mouthful and backing out, but eating for a little bit, a few mouthfuls, then backing out. He always just gets 4 feet back on the ground then stands does a big blowy snort, and comes up again as soon as I ask.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:25 pm

Anne wrote:Yes, we work on ground tying/staying. He's not super good at it yet, but it's improving. I've been sort of hesitant to stop him on the ramp (ie 2 feet on ramp), because these days he normally walks all the way in when I ask. If I stop the momentum, won't that confuse him? But I'm up for trying a new approach, so will give that a go today. Will report back :-)

That is interesting on feeding inside, working for Maia, but not MM. I did this yesterday, just to see if he'd stand longer. He did, but went in and out a few times - like, not grabbing one mouthful and backing out, but eating for a little bit, a few mouthfuls, then backing out. He always just gets 4 feet back on the ground then stands does a big blowy snort, and comes up again as soon as I ask.



One thing about getting him to stop part way is that you're making it about your terms and listening to you. So he walks part way up, stops, waits and then you can ask him the rest of the way or to back up on your terms. Either way, I think making it about listening to you, rather than him choosing could help.

But you'll have to test around to see what works best for him. I definitely don't think trying a partial stop will result in derailing progress or really confusing him. So it's probably safe to try!

I think if I gave her food once she was loaded with butt bar up or would be ok. But it goes back to the listening/my terms thing. If the food is up there she goes up for the food and then gets off by her choice, it stops being about listening. If the only food aspect is a reward from my hand after she's wait and stayed then she's focused on me.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:28 pm

I heard a trainer (I forget who, now, it was years ago) explain that food should be a reward, not a bribe. It clarified "appropriate use of food" for me.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby heddylamar » Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:41 am

I should clarify. I don't use food as an unlimited lure.

Maia's *very* food driven, so after our trailering incident, BO and I started free feeding in the trailer: we'd close all the yard gates, put Maia's dinner dish partway in the trailer, and Maia had to walk into the trailer on her own to eat dinner.

Now, I'm standing outside the trailer and sending her in. Hanging on the front wall of the trailer is a bucket with 1-2 treats. Maia either gets one, or she doesn't. Oftentimes I ask her to stop, wait, then back up before she can reach a treat :lol:

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Re: training to self-load

Postby Anne » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:59 am

thanks guys for your further input! Had a pretty good session today I think, trying the 'parking' on the ramp (2 front feet on). He was super good with that, I could drop the lead rope and walk right around him, and away a bit and he stood like a rock. Then asked him to come further on, I stood inside in the 2nd bay and just gave him his voice command ('walk-up') and he did, and stood, mostly inside, more calmly than usual. He did then back himself off, and we repeated quite a few times - I had a long enough lead to stay where I was, so I just asked again once he'd backed himself off, and he'd march straight back on. I finished with giving him his feed bucket inside the float, he wasn't fully inside, just his front end, but he stood calmly and ate his whole feed, then I asked him to back off just as he finished his bucket.

I'll try again tomorrow with the 'park', and see how we go.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:29 am

great to hear the progress, Anne!

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:56 am

well....today we went on a field trip to a barn 4 miles away that has some nice trails. MM self loaded up really well like we've been practicing. But I had a feeling that once we actually hit the road/she had to stay in there with the butt bar up she was not going to be as easy on the way back. Sure enough when I went to load her back on to come home she did not self load. she'd get all four up and wait but right at the end of the trailer so much too far back to close the bar. I worked with her as I have been at home for a bit but she went from not focusing on me to getting a bit shut down. Well, I figured I should try mixing it up, so instead of sending her on, I went back to leading her on. Gave her the 'stay command' and she stayed and I went around back, did the butt bar and came back up front to tie her.

So, it wasn't perfect, I would have liked her to selfload/send on the way back. but she still listened to staying and i was still able to do it myself (though a friend had gone with us). So all and all i still think progress in the big picture of things. Loading to leave this morning took about 2 minutes and loading to come back probably took closer to 15. But I think still work in the right direction.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby Anne » Tue Dec 08, 2020 4:11 am

Good one Blob, very nice that she 'stayed' while you went around to shut her in, sounds like she needed the extra reassurance of having you up front with her, but then was willing to 'stay'.

We have made a little bit of progress, I think. I did a few days with 'parking' on the ramp, then backing off, or stepping forward, basically, trying to get him to pay attention and do what I wanted. Then I decided to try something else : putting him to work when he decided to back off without me asking him. So we did a few brisk trot circles near the ramp, and backed in a straight line smartly, and a little faster than he wanted.... then asked forward and up the ramp. I stood on the ramp and he walked past me, then stood, for much longer than before!! If he backed off without me asking, he got to work a bit more, and would then promptly walk/trot on board, and stand. I could also pat him all over the rump, and hold the whip across his rump simulating the butt-bar, and he stood. He is definitely not comfortable/relaxed inside, but he did stand. Will keep at it....

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:10 am

Sounds like great progress! Keeping him working sounds like a good way to keep him focused on you and listening

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:06 pm

Sigh. After great progress in the fall. I tried again this weekend after *too* long of a break. And it's like starting over.

Starting to worry we're never going to be "over the hump" of re-training to trailer load.

I'm wondering if I need to get a stock trailer and try to see if that makes a difference for her

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Re: training to self-load

Postby Kyra's Mom » Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:11 pm

Yes...it is hard. I had to work my claustrophobic one all the time with the trailer. It just turned into being part of the training scheme. 3 days in the arena, 1 day hacking, 1 day trailer work, 2 days off for example.

I would definitely try a stock trailer and see if that makes a difference. My only caveat is that it seems most stock trailers are very clang-y and noisy. I don't think Kyra would tolerate one very well. But definitely see if having more space does make a difference. They do NOT seem to let go of trailer trauma very well. I think because they are "stuck" in that small space and feel they have no where to go.

Good luck,
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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:13 pm

I feel like this is an appropriate place to share my recent win. The baby pony (ahem, now 5 1/2) has done lots of loading and standing but not any travelling, besides a short trip on day 1 of her life when she came home from the place she was foaled at. All went well until she managed to bust out underneath the bum bar (straight load trailer) at about age 3 or 4.

I eventually found a guy who had good enough feel and understanding of horsemanship to come and give us a lesson (I explained all her history and why I needed his help), and the lesson ended in... her busting out, under the bum bar. #fail

Subsequently, a friend who helped me with my new horse, recommended someone local to me to help. It took 6 months to get him out here and he's just finished his third session. We went for a 3 mile drive around the block! WOOHOO.

He first checked all her groundwork responses were as he needed. This meant her moving a body part/area in the required direction (head, shoulders, haunches, over and back) and generally being a good listener. He was very gentle but firm when she needed reassurance. He then moved to the trailer and installed a verbal cue for "no," as in, "no do not rush backwards," in between getting her familiarised with the space, moving up and back, not feeling panicked or hemmed in, etc. A+++ for effort. The first session ended on her spending a few minutes standing quietly in the trailer and backing out quietly. The second session started further along (some repetition, reminding her how to do things, checking she could respond correctly) and ended with a short figure-8 drive around the paddock. He stayed in the trailer with her, and chose to use no bum bar - just a bum rope, that he had already familiarised her with so she knew it meant "come forwards". The third session started with loading a few times then he put a bum rope-type harness on her (really only some webbing that was on the horse rather than being a rope that could slip or slide) and repeated. We closed her in (still no bum bar) and went for a short drive, checked in, then went around the larger block.

He noted that (assuming they have been taught correctly to understand they are confined and aren't feeling panicked by that) if you drive TOO SLOW, it is actually harder for them to find their balance while the rig is moving. They think they can move their feet. Vs driving a little faster (I was going about 15 mph and got up to about 25mph, so not exactly fast) where they need to think about sorting out their balance fairly smartly. [This is contrary to me having learned to drive a trailer with a very confirmed scrambler - she would just keep scrambling. Huge learning curve.]

Now it's on me to take her out and make this normal... no pressure! #nervouslaughter

The plan is to load her up for a ride with no bum bar, just a bum rope, go somewhere close by and do some easy groundwork there, then load up to come home. Easy trip, have a bit of fun, easy trip, come home, rest. After a couple of trips like that, she'll be more OK about being in there, and the bum rope can come off and bum bar will go in.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:09 am

sounds like good progress and a good plan, Silk. Trailer stuff really is so challenging!

I have taken to getting MM in the trailer as often as possible, closing her up, and feeding her a snack. She's been doing really well. But now...like you, Silk, we need to actually go places and make it clear that this is not just a stationary food truck!

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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Mon Jun 14, 2021 2:43 am

One small challenge (during the second session) was preparing her to be driven. I started the truck and let it run whilst she was loaded, so there was no "we are loaded, then the truck gets turned on, then we move" signal. Because it really is challenging to change things for them (direction and location of trailer, where their friends are, what else is going on in the environment, distractions, etc etc etc). Perhaps a good interim step for MM would be to load up and eat her food with the truck running.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby blob » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:37 am

Great idea, Silk!

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Re: training to self-load

Postby silk » Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:41 am

Another skite, because I now have a horse that floats!

Two successful (brief - 3mile) trips 'around the block' in the trailer this weekend. Both of us were less nervous the second day and so everything went much more smoothly.

I need to solidify the fact that everything is going to be fine by repeating, repeating, repeating... Baby steps!

Advice from the trainer after I told him about the successes was essentially as follows:

Lots of small wins add up to the grand finale.
We established certain cues from the first session which result in success over time.
Once you have her in and thinking about when she can (and can't) back off, you can introduce the bum bar rather than the bum rope (then close the back door fairly quickly, as she understands that means she cannot leave the trailer). As soon as she feels the bum bar, it will be like feeling the bum rope and she will respond in the same way [come forward a step]. If she's nervous or loses composure, remember the cues we taught her, and regain your calmness and soothing voice as soon as she focuses and gathers herself.
No mucking around, get straight out for a small trip.
Adding the other horse is easy, start with a seasoned traveller who won't upset this horse.

After we got back from the second trip I put her back and decided to do a short loading session with my other horse. Lucy travels well but has been a problem loader for her previous owners (who were clueless and did not understand her). It took me and an experienced friend over 2 hours to load her when I bought her (Oct 2020). The next weekend I did two loading sessions (45 and 30 min respectively) and only one more attempt a few months on which was also about 30 min, she was still very reluctant.
Yesterday (about 9 months in, with masses of good progress based on groundwork and riding building trust, her relaxation and coming out of her shut-down introverted shell), she walked straight up to the back of the trailer, thought about it, put a front foot in, put the other front foot in, thought about it, then stepped right up when tapped lightly with the stick. She did back out by herself fairly calmly then re-loaded. All up, she got in 4 times in about 4 minutes which I called a giant win and put her back in the paddock.

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Re: training to self-load

Postby khall » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:22 pm

Finally got Joplin self loading! Just took persistence on my part. So much nicer than needing two to load


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