Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby mari » Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:50 am

We had a really good lesson yesterday. Still stuck in FC doldrums, but this is my life now :D
Strong emphasis on getting his stomach and back engaged in the c/w transitions, and getting the hind legs to step UNDER. I don't think it was Odin's favourite lesson ever, it was a bit drill-sergeant. We tried several different ways, the most successful being a TOH directly on the first walk step of the c/w.
Once my instructor was satisfied with the quality of the walk, we tried a few FC, and 2 out of the 3 were beautiful and clean.
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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby exvet » Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:58 pm

mari wrote:We had a really good lesson yesterday. Still stuck in FC doldrums, but this is my life now :D
Strong emphasis on getting his stomach and back engaged in the c/w transitions, and getting the hind legs to step UNDER. I don't think it was Odin's favourite lesson ever, it was a bit drill-sergeant. We tried several different ways, the most successful being a TOH directly on the first walk step of the c/w.
Once my instructor was satisfied with the quality of the walk, we tried a few FC, and 2 out of the 3 were beautiful and clean.


Sounds like progress in the right direction to me. I've used the TOH exercise before on Monty and it did help quite a bit. In order to try to keep it from being too drill-like, I used to do this exercise in each direction and then work in trot half-pass to leg yield to half-pass and Si back and forth in between in each direction working the arena. This would let me do some variety yet still work on engagement and add mobilizing the shoulders as well.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:40 pm

mari wrote:
Kelo wrote:
Ryeissa wrote:why would you quit kelo?


Well....50s aren't fun, even if they are high 50s, even if they are at the Olympic level with a limited horse and with mistakes as I attempt to learn this stuff. I mean, it's kind of embarrassing, although I am trying really hard to be kind to myself and remember I *am* an amateur, and we're improving, and he's clearly fine with all of this, and we're so close.

We'll probably just go back to practicing and see what happens. The next show's not for like half a year anyway, and of course the instant he tells me he's done, we're done. Plus maybe in the next few months I can learn about how to navigate arena geography. :lol: Every test I've ridden this year, I've missed centerlines and it is making me crazy (because I THOUGHT I was hitting them, especially this weekend, and do you even realize how many centerlines there are in the GP test? Good lord :lol: :oops: ).


A good workmanlike test is something I strive for. We won't ever wow, except maybe in some of the canter work if we're having a good day. But I think so many of the marks can be made up with very accurate riding. My instructor is brilliant at having me practice the geometry, and also the showmanship part of the geometry. Doing a loop through X? Know exactly where to leave the wall, where to keep your eyes as you're heading across the diagonal, how big the curve through X is, and where to hit the wall strategically on your way back. Same with circles, half-passes, and CLs.
Don't really have mediums? (because I'm convinced medium trot is something for other people that I will never achieve). Then you'd better have the pingiest exaggerated collected trot as you start your medium, and work harder to show the actual transitions, even though the middle will never be dazzling.

I think you're doing amazing, definitely an inspiration to me paddling on the edge of moving up to 3rd.


yeah, I usually have good geometry so that helps! Also good rhythm and bonus for color splash.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby chantal » Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:46 pm

exvet wrote:I hear you Kelo. It can be demoralizing all the while you can still acknowledge the fact that you've come so far and much father than others would have expected. You are an inspiration; but, listen to your horse. If he's still game I wouldn't give up. If this is YOUR rider goal and your horse is still willing and able, I would not look a 'gift horse in the mouth so-to-speak'. We only go around once and who knows if you'll get another opportunity? Perhaps you will but there are no guarantees. Of course if you're shifting goals then perhaps it's time to redirect the focus; but, I wouldn't let your first year at grand prix dictate you're decision. It is a process and it sounds like there isn't just room to improve but realistic areas where you can gain those few points that would make the difference. Good luck and keep having fun.


Well spoken exvet.

Kelo, this is my struggle as well. "Plus I am settling in to it - this weekend was the first time I wasn't freaking out and panicking the entire time, and he was able to really relax in the ring, even if we still didn't quite get there." I mean, settling into it, so good for you. I haven't done that yet, it's one of my goals. Sending you more encouragement. I understand the disappointment from a much lower level, gah. You have worked so hard and will continue to. It will pay off. I'm cheering you, and I know I'm not the only one here.

Aleuronx, Kora is simply lovely and you do such a nice job with her. Wow. I need to channel your relaxed way of going.

Rye-so awesome, the elusive 2nd.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby PhoenixRising » Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:52 pm

I have no training goals this time around. I'm officially on maternity leave from riding. Come December, I'll be locking myself in the house and won't be leaving for much of anything.
I have Phoenix in full training with my trainer through December. She rode her a few weeks ago with David Wightman, and will again next weekend before beginning to let her down in December for her trip to CA to train with David, Kathleen, and Alyssa for 3 months.
Exciting times, but I'm bummed to be seeing her getting time off again. However I'm over the moon excited for the opportunity she has to go out there and learn, and what that will mean for us when she comes back.
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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Kelo » Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:50 am

exvet wrote:I hear you Kelo. It can be demoralizing all the while you can still acknowledge the fact that you've come so far and much farther than others would have expected. You are an inspiration; but, listen to your horse. If he's still game I wouldn't give up. If this is YOUR rider goal and your horse is still willing and able, I would not look a 'gift horse in the mouth so-to-speak'. We only go around once and who knows if you'll get another opportunity? Perhaps you will but there are no guarantees. Of course if you're shifting goals then perhaps it's time to redirect the focus; but, I wouldn't let your first year at grand prix dictate you're decision. It is a process and it sounds like there isn't just room to improve but realistic areas where you can gain those few points that would make the difference. Good luck and keep having fun.


Thanks guys for all the kind words, I appreciate every one of them. Exvet, as usual you are able to put it into words perfectly. I am a QH person, not a dressage person, and the likelihood I'll ever be at this spot again is vanishingly small, and I'll enjoy it for as long as he'll let me. It's such a blessing.

Anyway, in a rare turn of events, there are actually show photos of us! Which of course I bought immediately. So I'm attaching my favorite shot, plus one performance shot for y'all. :D
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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby exvet » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:30 am

I think you two look absolutely 'there'. No shame in what you've achieved to this point. You've managed as a team to hit some major points in what dressage is all about, Kudos! I raise my glass to you both ;)

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:52 am

Totally love both pictures, Kelo!!! If I had seen that ride in person I’d be cheering like crazy!

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:20 am

Beautiful photos, Kelo. Many of us hope to be where you are, one day. Just scratching the surface of that level is amazing.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby blob » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:07 pm

Echoing others, Kelo, that you are a real inspiration for me. I also know how getting 50s feels (I've tried several times to get my second bronze score for third level and then decided I needed to take a break before showing third again). But I think as long as your cowpony wonder horse is enjoying the work, it's worth it to continue to pursue the goal.
Last edited by blob on Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:45 pm

yeah! I like to remember that the higher you go, the more "value" there is in a lower score. Ie- its fairly easy-ish to get a high 60s at TL but a third level high 60s is a bigger deal (at least to me).
GP is no joke, it's serious riding and getting around that test is a huge achievement!

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Sue B » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:51 pm

Great photos Kelo! Keep up the great work, but enjoy a bit of a winter off with your wonderful boy. You and he are an amazing pair.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby quinta » Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:37 pm

Kelo - you and your boy are super inspirational! Great photos.

I had a solid lesson yesterday. We had some nice moments where the transitions between lateral movements were just 'there' without me having to overthink and work too hard. Also developing some really good sit in the canter, although we had to cut that short because it was an unseasonably warm +21 C (!!) here and pony has way too much coat. Clipping is definitely on the agenda in the upcoming week.

Also, I seem to have developed this same bad habit with my left leg (there was discussion about taping my leg to the girth yesterday). Maybe our horses are related? ;)

exvet wrote:...get Junior to load his shoulders evenly and keep his left hind leg stepping up and under. He really likes to collapse and fall out through his right shoulder and keep his left hind leg stepping out. ... I have discovered that I've developed a bad habit of keeping my left leg farther back than it should be (ie, not at the girth). Because of Junior's habit (or mine, it's kind of a chicken and the egg sort of conundrum) he throws me off to his left side especially at the canter.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:35 pm

yeah, I hear you both quinta and exvet. I have discovered there are many ways a horse (my horse) can fall in. Sometimes it's at the withers, sometimes the barrel, sometimes the shoulder blade. How I fix the tipping depends on what part is tipping. I use a combo of my thigh, pelvis, and calves. At times i have to apply pressure to the saddle itself and the concept of the spiral seat is really helpful here. My horse is gumby and though basically straight likes to wiggle and throw his various bits around. I know you are both on smaller- horses too so this might be helpful.
Also, at times I have to address the tipping/falling with the other side- ie- control the opposite barrel/withers. Pointing the feet in a certain direction can help alignment- ie- in shoulder in left the outside right front must point straight, not cross to the side. This helps the inside shoulder stand up and creates space for the outside shoulder to move.
Recently I have had to GIVE my outside rein to enhance bend/connection as I did too good of a job with it!

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby exvet » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:23 pm

quinta wrote:Kelo - you and your boy are super inspirational! Great photos.

I had a solid lesson yesterday. We had some nice moments where the transitions between lateral movements were just 'there' without me having to overthink and work too hard. Also developing some really good sit in the canter, although we had to cut that short because it was an unseasonably warm +21 C (!!) here and pony has way too much coat. Clipping is definitely on the agenda in the upcoming week.

Also, I seem to have developed this same bad habit with my left leg (there was discussion about taping my leg to the girth yesterday). Maybe our horses are related? ;)

exvet wrote:...get Junior to load his shoulders evenly and keep his left hind leg stepping up and under. He really likes to collapse and fall out through his right shoulder and keep his left hind leg stepping out. ... I have discovered that I've developed a bad habit of keeping my left leg farther back than it should be (ie, not at the girth). Because of Junior's habit (or mine, it's kind of a chicken and the egg sort of conundrum) he throws me off to his left side especially at the canter.


Could be......LOL.......though I suspect I contribute to my issue more than Junior does. He's just got those welsh cob smarts to take advantage of it.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:40 am

Kelo, echoing everyone else, I do hope you keep going if Matt is still up for it. You've defied the odds to get to where you are, and I fully believe that you can continue to sort out GP and get that gold medal!

Annabelle seemed to have a lightbulb moment about jumping today and started getting adjustable enough to canter in to the jumps and find a decent spot, and also reorganize herself instead of going flat in a 1-stride in and out. She seems to enjoy jumping and it's great for her gymnastically, but I'll be lucky to get one more session in before we're weathered out for the winter.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Kyra's Mom » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:45 am

I agree with everyone else. Kelo and Matt ROCK!

I haven't hardly seen my pony this week. Getting Mom's house emptied, cleaned and on the market. The weather went to **ll this week to boot. The end of last week was 76 degrees. Saturday and Sunday...snow :P .

Hopefully, this next week I can get out there more and my back seems to have settled down some and give riding a try. I did ride the day after it was 76. I stuck to mostly walk between not wanting to aggravate my back and feeling for poor pony that has a 30-40 degree fluffy coat on her. It was a really nice ride and I stuck in all kinds of questions. We did a serpentine and at the CL, we would halt and I would have her do full pass for 5-6 steps then proceed in walk, rinse and repeat at CL with full pass the other direction. Her SI's were really nice with good bend through her body. I decided to try some trot but we stuck to 'baby' trot. Just a nice jog trot WITH impulsion. She stayed in front of the leg fairly well and seemed quite comfortable with it which has not always been the result. All those early years of forward, forward, forward and her tense brain and she didn't like to go slow so her adjustability and relaxation is coming along.

Lovely to see everyone's progress.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Moutaineer » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:05 am

Yes, Kelo! Keep going if you are both still enjoying it.

Still battling the abscess from hell here. Blew out his heel bulb today, ugh. Another vet visit in the offing. Poor Laddie.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Kyra's Mom » Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:27 am

Moutaineer wrote:Still battling the abscess from hell here. Blew out his heel bulb today, ugh. Another vet visit in the offing. Poor Laddie.


Hopefully he will start feeling better now. Kyra had an abscess a few years ago. I went out one day...stove pipe leg swollen clear above the hock and almost 3 legged lame. Soaked her foot and went out the next day and yeah...hole in the heel and much happier horse...so happy someone else had to lead her as I was on crutches. The day she was so bad we were a pretty pathetic looking pair. She continually improved with benign neglect...I just couldn't manage soaking or poulticing by myself on one leg and she healed up quickly.

Jingles for Laddie (and you).

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:13 pm

After very light riding in July, almost no riding in August, and light riding in September, I am finally back to good solid work. It took 6 weeks for both Rocky and me (mostly me) to get up to speed physically. Early in that 6 week period I must have tried too hard and strained my right inner thigh/hip. I’ve been very careful not to stress it to the point of re-injury, and today was the first day that it didn’t hurt at all.

I had gotten away from videoing my rides because it wasn’t really worth the effort given the light riding and then the injury. I finally started videoing again a couple of days ago and I am so glad I did. I have been pussyfooting around the right lead on a short rein, trying to strengthen my right side and get so my right side matched my left. Also working on getting Rocky’s left side stretched out and getting her to let me put enough weight on my right seatbone so that I can use my right leg to bend her and put her on the left rein. So, today I decided to go ahead and work on the right canter. We got several correct departs, mostly from trot and a couple from walk. I should have been thrilled but they didn’t feel very good and I got more and more depressed as the ride continued. I also should have been thrilled that my right thigh/hip didnt hurt! But I wanted a perfect right canter and it wasn’t happening. Soooo, I went right inside after the ride and watched the vid. After watching a couple of times through, I was impressed by how hard Rocky was trying! (After the second time watching the vid, I cut a little apple in half, carved out the center, put brown sugar in it and took it out to my fine dressage horse!).

Also from watching the vid, even tho the right canter wasn’t near where I want it to be, I could see definite improvement and I could see that I’m on the right track. It will be slow. But I think if I can get where it feels good, a lot of other things will fall into place. I was very happy that we got the right lead every single time I asked.

If I hadn’t had the video I would have been totally depressed and figured the ride was a complete failure. Rocky probably would have still gotten her sugar apple but I was truly thinking about giving up dressage with her and going back to just trail riding.

I’m not sure about meeting my goal from Sept-October even this time. I could “just do it”, but I dont think I’d be happy with the results.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:32 pm

Demi, I am with you there on the right lead struggles. Annabelle has a hard time with the right, and we often end up doing a few times around in left lead counter canter, then she gets the right. Once she starts really working through in the trot, and I can get in and out of shoulder-in without losing impulsion, the right lead is suddenly easy and she can shift t/c/t quite nicely. At my clinic last weekend, she told me to "feel the speed of the canter" in the trot, and once we got to that energy level, the canter departs were good. We were definitely not running her off her feet, just getting that bounding feeling in the trot and keeping that neck out. A tends to fall on her right shoulder as well, so she had us turning on quarterline, and then LY right only when the right shoulder was up, and LY left with a little more of the left shoulder leading. I think that helped her get out of her pattern of relying on the right shoulder, so she could get out of her own way in the canter departs. Anyway, she she and R seem to have similar builds and challenges, I thought I would share. :)
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby MsM » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:45 pm

My first update are some steps forward, some back. :roll:

We had some really warm weather which I appreciated but the hairy boy with only a bib clip sweated up quite quickly. I am actually glad to see the sweat as we had an issue with him not sweating last year. I have been getting better about keeping the line of travel in SI and getting bigger steps. My instructor has me treating the HI more like a leg yield for now so I dont overthink it and turn myself into a pretzel. I think it is helping as long as I dont get greedy. His trot-canter-trot transitions are quite good. He can do walk-canter-walk but then we have anticipation issues and tenseness in the walk and a tendency to "drop anchor" in the downward transition. It will take a while to make them NBD.

On some days he seems to think he can ignore my seat and back aids when he wants to go bigger Back to re-establishing that and brakes... Then the other day the neighbors were shooting. They shoot a fair amount and he has heard it a lot so I thought it wouldn't be a problem. Wrong! He was so amped up I couldnt even wrap his legs, so I crossed my fingers and lunged him a bit. He listened but was definitely tense and worried and spurted away from the end near the shooting. (It was louder than usual and they may have been fairly close in the woods behind the indoor) I put him away (hay is a great tranquilizer) and rode him later that day when the shooting had stopped for a while. It took some convincing to ride down that end of the ring and he was tense but improved, Two days later and he is still suspicious of that area!

I do love having video too so I can get a good idea of how my rides really went. Sometimes I also need to replay my lesson with the instructor saying lovely things about my horse :D

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:00 pm

Thanks for sharing that, SF. I agree that our mares are similar in build and I just quickly looked back for your latest pics of Annabelle (in Sept/Oct training thread). I’ll try to get some screenshots from yesterday’s ride and post them.

I find that the biggest thing is keeping R’s hindquarters under. She has a short back so it isn’t too difficult to get her under, but she has to be continually reminded to keep them there. And it’s not just keeping them under from behind, but she handily shifts them right or left. I have to be so focused to keep her straight and under, and then I tend to get over focused which makes me stiff and insensitive. My trainer has pointed out several times that mares don’t respond well to insensitivity!

As you noted with A, I also noted with R that if she’s really working through at trot, things get better. I hadn’t though about “feeling the speed of the canter” in the trot and not sure how it would work with R. Rocky is naturally energetic and hot, so I’m always working on not running at the trot (she wants to run even more at canter). Still, work at the trot is my friend right now. I remember a clinician once asking, “is there a canter in that trot?”. I know what it feels like when it’s right, so I just keep working on feeling for the canter in the trot, and then testing it occasionally (like I did yesterday) to see if it’s working. Seems to be.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:05 pm

MsM, cool that you love having videos, too! My robot is a soloshot and my lessons are indoors so I can’t video them. I am sure having lessons on vid would be even more helpful than just recording my work at home. The soloshot is acting up lately and if it dies, I’ll replace it with a pivo so I can video indoors.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:13 pm

demi wrote:I remember a clinician once asking, “is there a canter in that trot?”.


Same idea, I think. I have heard it this way as well, and try for that with A, but for whatever reason it really clicked for us with the slightly different wording. I should be getting the DVD from my lesson today or tomorrow and will try to post some clips to YouTube.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby MsM » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:35 pm

demi - my "video" is totally old school! I got a used camcorder off an internet tag sale group. It records onto a mini DVD. I just set it up in a corner and aim it to cover most of the indoor. Of course there is a corner that is out of view and I have plenty of video in which I can hear but not see that something important happened there! :lol:

So not great coverage or quality, but still really useful. I would like a pivo but I would need to upgrade my phone first as it is not compatible!

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby exvet » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:42 pm

Well here's the good, the green and the very green (ugly, LOL but still showing promise). Brandon and I went on our maiden voyage today. Though not shown in the video clip he did finally get the idea that forward is the ONLY option when asked; so, his tentative way of going did get more 'rolling along'. He actually started to step up to the plate before it was all said and done. He's not too keen on accepting the bit but we did have some quiet forward moments. I'm looking forward to our next ride :)

https://youtu.be/O-XpO4ZJqI0

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Aleuronx » Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:28 pm

chantal wrote:Aleuronx, Kora is simply lovely and you do such a nice job with her. Wow. I need to channel your relaxed way of going.


Chantal you are too kind!! What I'd say is ride a mare and you'll learn at least one of you has to be relaxed :lol: But truthfully I've been doing a bit of mindset work that has been really helpful to change my perspective on training. I want to improve and do right by the horse; those are my two big 'goals'. It helps to frame each session by that rather than the spooky corner or what others are doing.

Exvet - love the video! 3 year olds are such string beans. Brandon looks like a gem and a good first education step.

I can firmly say that Kora is exiting what has been the worst growth spurt yet. Felt like I could ride her this week rather than sit, help with whatever balance she could muster and survive to the next. Thursday we did a few walk-canter transitions in a complete ho-hum way like she's been doing it all along. So pleased! We are off to a lesson tomorrow where I imagine we will both WORK. She still can't sustain much with the hind legs in terms of stamina, they get tired quick but we're able to work so time to get the help before Trainer leaves for Florida in a few weeks.

In rubbish news I did not get extended offers from the most recent jobs I was quite excited about. They were both effusively positive and impressed with me but one made a tough choice to another candidate and another had a change to the position which would have ruled me out. A bummer to say the least as I had really good feelings about these but onto the next.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:01 pm

ExVet, Brandon is adorable, and it looks like he's trying hard to figure it out!

Aleuronx, glad to hear Kora is coming through her awkward phase. Best of luck finding the right fit for a new position!

Demi - here is our right lead work from the clinic, if you're interested. This was A's first canter right of the day, so it's a small miracle that we got the right lead on the first try. https://youtu.be/u8sX2PYdNdg
Also some more video from the beginning - I had to run it through a converter from the DVD and it looks like only about half of the lesson made it to YouTube for some reason. https://youtu.be/3PVSB4dK_c4
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby exvet » Sat Nov 14, 2020 5:56 pm

Thanks y'all. We just did another walk about and he did well. Tried a different bit just to see if he'd have a different reaction, not so much. Still he was better overall and another ride down in the books as we continue our progress. Looks like you had a nice clinic Straightforward, very pleasant horse.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:20 pm

StraightForward wrote:ExVet, Brandon is adorable, and it looks like he's trying hard to figure it out!

Aleuronx, glad to hear Kora is coming through her awkward phase. Best of luck finding the right fit for a new position!

Demi - here is our right lead work from the clinic, if you're interested. This was A's first canter right of the day, so it's a small miracle that we got the right lead on the first try. https://youtu.be/u8sX2PYdNdg
Also some more video from the beginning - I had to run it through a converter from the DVD and it looks like only about half of the lesson made it to YouTube for some reason. https://youtu.be/3PVSB4dK_c4


I actually enjoyed watching this. you look so polished, love your boots. I really appreciate seeing lovely work on what used to be an uneven unbalanced horse.

I do want to ask though, what was the reasoning behind rushing before the canter? I most of the time I suggest even slightly slowing the trot with balancing half halts before the transition. you rode it admirably so I hope to learn something.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:16 pm

I agree with Chisamba! I enjoyed the lesson and you look professional! I like the matching vest and saddle pad!! I like your trainer’s style and would enjoy riding with her myself.

The ride looked harmonious in a way I would like to have with Rocky. I am getting closer to having good harmony with R but it comes and goes. I think Rocky has a shorter back, and while it’s easier to get her hind legs under, it has the disadvantage of having less up/down flexibility and makes the trot hard to sit. Unfortunately, it’s easier to keep her hind end under and working into my hands at sitting trot so I sit for a while just to get her where I want her.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:24 pm

Exvet, I think Brandon is going to be a really neat dressage horse for you. I recently read an article by Angela Bean about training a Morgan to FEI. While there are training challenges (which I have no doubt you’ll handle well!), the breed seems quite capable of getting some very good dressage scores. I hope we get lots more pictures of Brandon!

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:03 pm

Chisamba wrote:I do want to ask though, what was the reasoning behind rushing before the canter? I most of the time I suggest even slightly slowing the trot with balancing half halts before the transition. you rode it admirably so I hope to learn something.


The part of the video that is missing, is where A gets really tight because scary noises started coming from the other side of the arena wall just as we started the canter work to the left. She also started spooking at stuff outside the open wall during the trot work right. She sucks back and starts bouncing her butt in the air and doing really short strides. Carrie wanted me getting her shoulders out in front so she was unequivocally forward and the butt down. Otherwise, she would come up with her underneck and start climbing a bit, instead of staying through the back. This was really the second day of riding her in this deeper frame, and I think once she's more comfortable with staying there, I'll be able to maintain the energy and make the transition from a more collected trot. At home, when I try to keep her bend and ask for the transition without this level of energy, it almost seems like it gives her time to overthink it, and then she counterbends and goes above the bit, and I end up having to give some corrections to get her back in front of the leg.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby exvet » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:36 pm

demi wrote:Exvet, I think Brandon is going to be a really neat dressage horse for you. I recently read an article by Angela Bean about training a Morgan to FEI. While there are training challenges (which I have no doubt you’ll handle well!), the breed seems quite capable of getting some very good dressage scores. I hope we get lots more pictures of Brandon!


Thanks demi! I hope so; but, he's going to be first and foremost a trail horse. I descend from a long, long line of Morgan breeders; so, I'm very familiar with the breed despite having been 'stolen' by the Welsh Cob breed. It's also kind of deja vu in a sense because I've ridden with Angie Bean in the distant past LOL. I remember her [first] Morgan rather well. Brandon has become my SO's favorite; and for that reason alone I foresee more pictures though they aren't likely going to have the 'finished' look like the ones my daughter takes ;)

Today is kind of bittersweet. I found a home to lease Morgan to and I just dropped him off after my lesson today. It's a colleague who's retired riding horse died recently leaving her rescued Clydesdale without an equine buddy. Morgan got the true test though when I took him off the trailer and let him out in their small 'pasture - one with real grass'. We let the two greet each other through a common fence - all uneventful since Morgan was mesmerized by the grass.....LOL a true welsh cob. My colleague then decides to let Clyde the Clydesdale into the pasture along with 4 mini donkeys and 9 llamas. Morgan was born on a dairy farm so he's been exposed to a ton of critters and he's seen llamas and alpacas from a far; but, this was a whole different experience. He held it together as they all checked him out and then he and Clyde went to the back on their own and just went to eating side by side like they've always known each other, a true Mutt and Jeff. My colleague is the vet for the zoo; so, I know she'll take good care of him plus he's on my way to my lesson :)

As for my lesson, Junior also got a maturing opportunity. He was all out of sorts because Morgan was left tied to the trailer. Morgan is his 'uncle' and though he's never really cared being taken away from Morgan when we've left the house, this was different. I had for the first time a tense and distracted Junior to ride. We really worked hard on getting him into the right rein and letting me control the right shoulder. An exercise that really worked whenever i lost it (he's really committed to muscling through and resisting me from controlling both shoulders equally) was turn on the haunches with a counter bend. It was really a test for me and clearly showed me I need to develop some new muscle memory; but, this is where it starts. I know if I can master this aspect the rest of what we hope to achieve will be much easier.

Hope everyone else is getting to enjoy the beautiful weather as we've been today.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby chantal » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:13 am

exvet-Brandon is adorable, what a good boy! He really is trying to figure it out. Ha, poor Junior. And the whole muscle memory, argh. I agree. Working on that myself.

straightforward-nice work with A. We've worked through similar issues with our RL canter. So rewarding to get progress isn't it? Good for you! A looks good! I love having videos to watch and pour over and dissect to help me with my work.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby mari » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:59 am

Chisamba wrote:I do want to ask though, what was the reasoning behind rushing before the canter? I most of the time I suggest even slightly slowing the trot with balancing half halts before the transition. you rode it admirably so I hope to learn something.


My instructor also has me do canter transitions from a very rushed trot, whenever Odin feels like he wants to hover and hop. He will boing around with straight hind legs instead of stepping through and under. So it doesn't look very pretty, but after a few transitions it gets smoother as he sorts out his own balance.
The aim of argument or of discussion should not be victory, but progress. ~ Joseph Joubert

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Flight » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:04 am

I've done it a bit too with my old mare, who would hop up into a canter. A flatter faster trot in rising trot and then into canter helped her too.

I had a good lessons on the weekend. I wanted to start working on passage and this style of riding/teaching is still quite different to my older way and what I can resort back to. The old 'more leg', 'push more' is not part of it. It was piaffe and then lift up and forward into passage and when we couldn't do it, it was piaffe to canter with the lift of my hip to the lead I wanted. This created the uphill feel into the transition from the piaffe, as Ding tended to drop his back when he would try and passage out. Good homework there to go on with.
We also did some pirouettes. Ding has improved quite a bit really suddenly with these. I'm not sure what caused the dramatic change. He's gone from groaning and stiffening his neck right up sort of stalling, to collecting and getting around. He still finds it hard, but somethings clicked. Anyway, worked on my position with these and leaving it for him to do and not getting in the way so much.

We also had our clubs first working equitation day for quite a long time due to covid. That was good fun and the improvement in Ding over the past 9 months is quite noticeable, he is coping with the tight circles and collection needed much better now.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby khall » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:30 am

SF nice video! Very polished and I too was envious of your brown boots!
Exvet it sounds like stinker pony will have a good life. Bitter seeet I’m sure but glad Brandon is coming along! Very fancy with his white feet.

Flight cool that Ding is catching on to the pirouettes. That passage work sounds like fun. A bit different than how I’ve played with it going from medium trot to passage

Had a great clinic with Cedar with some lovely weather this past weekend. I got to ride all 3 of mine each day. Rip was good for 2 then just pooped out. He’s having issues with his breathing scope this Thursday to see where we go:(

But both my mares were just stars. Gaila’s trot work is very solid and could do a good bit of work there. She is so easy to sit on and just a fun girl. Canter is lacking the development of the trot but Cedar thinks if I can put more work into her she will catch up to Rip pretty quickly. Her SW is good getting half steps lateral work is fun. Good in the bridle. Canter is huge but nicely balanced. Cedar got on her and had her looking good. I finally got it best the last day of the clinic. She’s funny though you quit riding and she just stops

Joplin was the star though. She is powerful and was learning how to direct that power a bit with some lateral work in the trot. It’s green but coming. Definitely a very different ride than my WBs. Lots of go but not stupid about it. She was my last ride of the clinic and I was tired so I got a bit done then Cedar hopped on. Wow is Joplin impressive! Did not get video if the best work was too busy pinching myself. Huge expressive gaits that are lovely to sit. Cedar really liked her. And she got canters on her pretty easy. So fun to see my girl go.

Will start a new thread on some exercises that Cedar had me doing. Specifically addressing shoulder bulging or loading. Very good stuff

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby exvet » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:08 am

khall wrote:
Will start a new thread on some exercises that Cedar had me doing. Specifically addressing shoulder bulging or loading. Very good stuff



Yes, please do. Will be anxiously waiting for new ideas :)

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:28 pm

I think preventing shoulder bulging is about teaching the horse to come to the outside rein, not through the outside rein. but it is also about not allowing the inside rein to be too light on the hollow side.

in other words it's not about exercises but consistent attending to equal contactnin both reins. i believe horses and riders tend to use the exercise to improve, and then relax into their normal pasture as soon as the exercise is over.

making a significant postural change requires attention and consistent adjustment every single moment in every single ride.

jmho

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby exvet » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:04 pm

Chisamba wrote:
in other words it's not about exercises but consistent attending to equal contactnin both reins. i believe horses and riders tend to use the exercise to improve, and then relax into their normal pasture as soon as the exercise is over.

making a significant postural change requires attention and consistent adjustment every single moment in every single ride.

jmho


I don't disagree one bit; but, when it has become a habit having exercises that will encourage the appropriate feel/way of going is still helpful especially for someone like me who has a paresis on one side. Junior is so athletic and compact that I can often 'get things done' without having him equal into both reins and then he uses his underneck against my requests to step into the right rein. No arguing that it's all on me and my failure to demand equal contact and throughness evenly on both sides very...single....stride...and...throughout....every...part.....of......the.....stride.....but having more tools in the toolbox to create what is correct is still helpful to try to get me more aware and catch the issue before it becomes a problem or a fight. I need to also be able to break up the request/demand/his muscling me with his resistance with exercises (change it up, change the perspective and/or approach) otherwise it's a power struggle I lose every time and quite frankly I don't want to continue to support 'that lesson'.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby khall » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:58 pm

Chisamba I don’t agree. The shoulders are a result of what’s happening in the hind legs and these exercises address strengthening and suppling the hind legs so the horse does not have to go to a shoulder nor does the rider have to manage the crookedness instead the horse has the strength and understanding how to be in self carriage. This was particularly what Cedar wanted to get across

One of the big ones we did for all of mine was to start in counter SI along the long side asking for the inside hind to reach as well as encouraging the outside fore to reach. All of mine were dealing with wanting to stay more on the right shoulder (Joplin has just switched her shoulder alliance:) so we would start in counter SI bending right on the left rein down the long side. Rip and Gaila we would push the trot Joplin we kept it small with an indicating opening left rein to shift her shoulders to the left. Had to open the right as well so she would yield to that asking for bend and flexion to the right which encourages the right hind to step further. She’s still very green to this so did just a little then would straighten. With Rip and Gaila we would change flexion and bend and move from counter SI to HI trying to use as little rein as possible so not to block them. If they started to struggle fo back to counter SI. I could really feel the release of the hips and how it made the HI easier for the horse.

With Gaila in SI right Joplin as well but to a green horse degree thinking of pushing the trot or allowing the left shoulder to reach more. Joplin we did this with an opening left rein a bit Gaila just pushed the trot

With Joplin we took this from counter SI along the long side to a diagonal line and continue the SI on the diagonal challenging both of us to be precise. Though we did not do this during the clinic with a more advanced horse needing to work on reach in the HP you can start this exercise in the SI across and change to HP to help with the engagement of the right hind and reach of the left fore

Then with another rider in the canter who wanted to really be on the right shoulder in the canter but did not want to reach more forewarn with the right fore in the right lead she had her counter bend in the right lead but indicating with the right rein for the horse to reach more forward leading that leg with the right rein then back to true bend. It really worked to get the horse to reach more up and out with the right fore. She also had the rider on the left lead to counter bend on the long side and push the HQs in yielding for just a few strides the straighten. He really stood more up and was in much better self carriage going left.

None of these movements are done in order to practice for show movements but to address how the horse is moving and their balance and straightness. Cedar in particular wants the horse to carry themselves so the rider is not having to manage their straightness. I liked that concept.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby quinta » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:08 pm

Interesting discussion about exercises. I find that a new exercise in a lesson / clinic often provides the lightbulb moment of "ok, that's how it is supposed to feel" so that I can move past the block and start looking for that feeling throughout the ride.

We did a fun lesson yesterday with cavaletti on a circle, counting strides and shortening / lengthening the canter between the 'jumps'. Also good for making sure we aren't falling in / drifting out by hitting the middle of the caveletti every time. Mare thought it was great fun, and really relaxed into a nice canter rhythm by the end.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:48 pm

I use exercises pole work and all to supple strengthen and assist feelings etc, I love shoulder in counter shoulder in and many exercises

but I differ from some, and I don't want to try and convert anyone or expect anyone to change their method or process, I just differ in some things. I think you improve riding by riding. I think you improve straightness by riding straight, i think exercises tend to test if you have something rather than fixing what you do not have.

I remember reading how compatriots of François Robichon de La Guérinière reacted to his development of the shoulder in. now understand i totally use the shoulder in and I am not belittling it at all. I completely buy into the shoulder in being the Alpha and Omega of all exercises. ( by which I translate to meaning start and finish all exercises with shoulder in)

but back to the point, a riding compatriot of François Robichon de La Guérinière said why do you need the shoulder in. everything you can teach with shoulder in, you can teach by correctly riding a volte. he agreed but reposted, how many.people correctly ride the volte.

so in theory, all you need is to correctly ride a circle in each direction. lol.

but about shoulders pushing out, specifically, you really do need to be able to maintain the correction in a simple circle, and through all the complicated exercises we ask the horse to do, not just for the duration of an exercise.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:27 pm

I use a lot of exercises but for specific functions. I find they both teach aspects and test the quality of connection

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:40 pm

Chisamba wrote:I think preventing shoulder bulging is about teaching the horse to come to the outside rein, not through the outside rein. but it is also about not allowing the inside rein to be too light on the hollow side.

in other words it's not about exercises but consistent attending to equal contactnin both reins. i believe horses and riders tend to use the exercise to improve, and then relax into their normal pasture as soon as the exercise is over.

making a significant postural change requires attention and consistent adjustment every single moment in every single ride.

jmho


This makes the most sense to me. Personally, I am spending a lot of time right now just teaching my horse to go to the outside rein. And I am teaching myself how to get her there, and how to feel when I have her there, and how to manage the inside rein at the same time. It’s easier for us going to the left and I use the left as a comparison. I am just trying to get a “mirror image” feel going to the right as I get going to the left

Also, while lateral work has been VERY helpful for me, I have to concentrate more on just keeping my horse’s hind end reaching under my seat bones equally, or I end up not able to even ride straight down the centerline.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby blob » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:26 pm

In high level theory I agree that maybe all you need is to ride a good straight line and a good circle. But I don't think most riders are capable of that. At least I know I'm not. If my horse is leaning on the left side, for example, it's often not enough for me to address that just through a straight line or circle. But doing SI or LY will help me address the issue. So I don't disagree with your theory, Chisamba, I just disagree with its practicalness for the average rider (me).

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby khall » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:29 pm

I just do not think you can train a horse only on a circle to do the more advanced work. Lateral work is one of the cornerstones of the training we do. To mobilize the shoulders and the HQs in order to strengthen the horse so they then can be in self carriage and I don’t have to manage them with the reins for straightening. That’s the entire idea for developing the horse. The rider does less as the horse develops more.

I use specific exercises to help my horses become more balanced and ambidextrous. I don’t prescribe to the thought the horse should be equal in both reins especially on bending lines. I’ve always been taught that the inside rein should be able to be given freely to check the horse’s contact into the outside or collecting rein. That uberstreiken first on inside rein then on both reins to check for self carriage.

Here is the ultimate in self carriage

https://www.facebook.com/ValencaEquestr ... 32/?type=3

This is at the Valenca’s in Portugal

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Ponichiwa » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:35 pm

blob wrote:In high level theory I agree that maybe all you need is to ride a good straight line and a good circle. But I don't think most riders are capable of that. At least I know I'm not. If my horse is leaning on the left side, for example, it's often not enough for me to address that just through a straight line or circle. But doing SI or LY will help me address the issue. So I don't disagree with your theory, Chisamba, I just disagree with its practicalness for the average rider (me).


I just posted something similar in the straightness thread. It's not always about the rider, either-- some horses catch on much quicker with use of exercises vs staying on circles or straight lines. It's like installing a half-halt: first you go for walk/halt or trot/halt. Horse understands that halt aids mean halt. Then you refine with transitions between the gaits-- now the aids really mean pay attention, changes of gait are coming. Then you refine further still with transitions within the gaits-- now the half halt has some "sit-down-and-carry" meaning. And some riders can get on a green horse and put them in really good balance by dint of their timing (and, sometimes, strength of position-- auction riders, for example).


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