Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

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Chisamba
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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:52 pm

at times I wish I had the ability when I was younger, and the wisdom and experience I have now. As I gain skill and patience I have lost , well , hutzpah. oh well. Life is good

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:56 pm

in real news, none of my horses missed a beat for having the week off. well that might not be true Saiph was a bit stuck and not off the leg.

naturally forward horses seem easier

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Aleuronx » Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:09 pm

My back to back lessons went well last weekend. Kora was pretty tuckered the second day but we were able to do good work and call it a day early. Sometimes short and sweet is best. We worked on owning my elbows to my core and allowing Kora to self-correct when she hits that limit then softening just the fingers/wrist when contact is good. Getting this in the trot felt sooo good when I could soften that tiny bit.

Other homeworks are leg yield gently off the right, the side she most likely to lean to get her to stand up straight. For me? Stop freaking leaning and throwing myself forward in the canter transition, time for grown-up horse behavior and I need to sharpen up!

For now I'm trying to avoid all these black friday sales and spending on anything else. Already have 2 packages coming... :lol:

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:02 pm

Chisamba wrote:in real news, none of my horses missed a beat for having the week off. well that might not be true Saiph was a bit stuck and not off the leg.

naturally forward horses seem easier


I really find that it doesn't hurt and often helps. I just rode Tesla after about 9 days off due to a couple little bumps that were right under her saddle area, and she was better than last time I rode her. I am cautiously optimistic that we are starting to turn the corner on the stopping and growing roots thing. She stopped a couple times at the beginning of the ride, but wasn't very committed to it, and once I got her trotting, we had a few lovely trots around the big outdoor arena without any sticky spots. It looks like the weather will allow riding outdoors in the afternoons at least for the rest of this week, so the goal is to get her out there and repeat some positive rides in the bigger arena as much as possible.

I also had a nice lesson on Annabelle today; she is starting to find her collected canter and is getting much easier to sit. Unfortunately my SoloShot, which started the day working perfectly, quit on my just when my lesson started, so I didn't get any video. I have another lesson Monday afternoon, so hopefully the camera will cooperate. Between Covid and winter weather, I have no idea when my next lesson might be, so it would be nice to have the video to refer back to.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby blob » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:38 am

I can't believe november is almost over, i did VERY little riding this month. I hopefully will be able to get back into the swing of things by mid/late next week. But that'll be 3 weeks for MM other than a walk-only trail ride today and 2 for RP. Normally I have at least one big travel trip in the year so I suppose this time off is about the equivalent of that. But this time there's no fun trip involved

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby exvet » Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:21 pm

I don't find that time off hurts them; but, fitness and endurance does suffer a little bit. I notice a difference (not insurmountable but definitely present) between when I have Junior fit as a fiddle with regular riding versus coming off of a 2 week break. It doesn't take him long to get back into it but I can see and feel a difference. It really is more of an awareness that I think needs to be kept front of mind to prevent injuries. Junior is one who will still try to deliver and that risks injury if he's not fit enough to do what I'm asking (onus on me not to get too greedy too soon).

I was supposed to have a lesson today which I was so looking forward to but the guy who was scheduled to come fix my trailer brakes postponed until next week. We're going to continue to work on the homework from the last lesson (2 weeks ago) and hope that we're able to move on and start introducing more lateral movement at the canter.....ie, I feel like we're straighter and I think we are. I managed to do some half-passes at the canter and keep him in the counter canter around the short side without him changing and then got him to change when I asked. I'm pretty sure they were clean, not big, but clean and forward. So for now it's warm up in walk with suppling through lots of lateral work at the walk including counter shoulder in with turn on the haunches. Then it's trot work with lots of forward and back making sure we're straight, then lateral work. Lastly we work on canter just making sure he's straight and rolling forward over his back really getting him through, then some 'baby' lateral work which seems to be coming along a bit better with all the preparation in place. He still will slip in a change every once in a awhile but is doing much better maintaining counter canter like he used to so I think, I think we're crossing 'over and beyond that' bridge of the change machine.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby blob » Sun Nov 29, 2020 10:40 pm

MM is usually ok with time off. She has a stiff day or two, but can usually get back to work fast. She naturally puts muscle in easily so she can regain strength back fast, the stamina takes a bit more time. With RP it's the mental fitness he loses. I suspect it might take the better part of a week to get him back to being focused.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Mon Nov 30, 2020 1:20 am

Yeah, November went by really fast.

I’m really happy about the right lead now. The videos have helped a lot. One thing I saw happening that surprised me was that I would have her in a good frame, hind legs under, and me sitting straight, equal weight in both seatbones, horse connecting to the outside rein, BUT THEN, right before I’d ask for the right lead, I’d relax and she’d get behind my leg. I don’t understand why I was relaxing at that moment, but I could see her falling apart right before the canter, and then she’d take the wrong lead. After seeing that on the vid, I went out the next day and got really nice right leads. Even the left lead was better.

I also remembered what a trainer once told me: when you get the horse where you want it, REMEMBER how you got there. I didn’t like watching the video where I noticed my mistake, but I made myself watch it several times, and made mental corrections to myself. Those mental corrections come to mind vividly now when I’m riding. What I am finding very interesting, is that, I can watch other people make mistakes in lessons and hear the instructor’s correction, but it doesn’t have nearly as strong an effect on me as watching and correcting my own mistakes. I’ve copied two particular segments of video that I have handy to quickly watch as a reminder before I ride.

I’m going to have to stay focused to keep Rocky where she is right now. During August and the first 2 weeks in September I only rode 1-2 very light rides a week. When I went back to 5 times a week it took a month to get back in the groove. In the last several years I’ve wimped out in the worst of the winter, too. This year I am going to kick my own butt to keep up with the work even in the cold, wind and rain. And then, next summer I’m going to have to kick my butt again to be on her back by 6:00 am so I don’t have to take time off.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:57 am

Demi, funny that you posted, because I just uploaded this video of our right lead struggles in our lesson today. Per Chisamba's question on my clinic video, this is what happens when we attempt to get the right lead from a smaller trot. It gets better with each transition, but at first Annabelle is trying to find another response, like getting long, spinning her haunches out, losing the bend and taking the left lead. https://youtu.be/IYJxi1HL_JM

Overall though, we had a nice lesson today. A is starting to find some collection in the canter and giving me a place to sit. I need to make some tweaks to my equitation now that I'm not getting tossed around as much, but already I can see that my torso is more fully upright and I'm really on my seatbones much more. Today we were focusing on riding better corners in the canter, and straightening onto the outside rein down the long side. We also did some shoulder-fore in canter for the first time, and a little more intentional canter LY than we've done in the past. Lots of good homework if it's not possible to keep up with the lesson schedule this winter.

Tesla was also quite good again today. There was a lot going on around the barn with horses playing in turnout, another rider, and people inside the barn talking and making other noises. My lesson today was supposed to be with her, but I changed plans when I got to the barn and saw how busy it was.

Tomorrow afternoon I have lessons on one or both, depending on logistics.

Happy riding all!
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Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Kyra's Mom » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:48 am

OK...I had my reply all typed out and it went poof :evil: .

SF both mares look wonderful.

I had a nice ride today. Any ride is nice outside in the sunshine in late November. Instead of her right lead canter being a hot mess, it was just a mess...at times. Her up transitions were iffy and she wasn't in front of the leg as evidenced by the 3 times she just dropped out of the canter. Her trot work felt lovely and it kind of surprised me that she was that sticky into the canter. I will take that over the tense, braced and heavy canter I had last time I rode.
I still feel myself sliding left some and I suspect that maybe my stirrups are not level. Of course, I forgot to check when I got off so must add that to my pre-ride check next time. A good portion of the arena was still too wet but I was able to make a nice 12-15m circle on the high/dryer end. In trot we worked on forward and back within the trot and her SI was quite nice.

My thigh is getting better but it is getting to the technicolor phase. The lump is getting smaller and less tense. Ok, so that is better and I proceed to come home, get my 3-step step ladder out to get Christmas decorations down and managed to step off the middle step thinking I was on the bottom step. I hit the ground (concrete) and fell landing square on the heel of my left hand where I just had the carpal tunnel release in Septtember. OWWW! Also hit my forearm near my elbow and my left hip. Nothing broken that I can tell. Everything works if it has too. I have a bone density scan scheduled next month. I MUST quite testing it by myself :o .

Happy riding all.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby quinta » Mon Nov 30, 2020 4:48 pm

I also can't believe November is almost over. With Autumn, I are making progress with the lateral work, ensuring the left hind is stepping through (and catching my tendency to sit left). The 3 year old WB mare is learning about longing with side reins, about forward-and-back at the trot, and about canter transitions. She's very chill about everything.

And, I may have found horse #2. No details to share yet but crossing fingers that it works out. :)

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:05 pm

Chisamba, I get what you mean! But from what I've seen, you are lovely rider with knowledge and skills.

Blob, I hope you are healing well and can get back into riding quickly!

Exvet, so sorry about your trailer but at least you have homework to keep you and Junior busy! And Brandon.

Demi, you are inspiring me to use video to my advantage. It really can be hard to watch our own mistakes but I agree that it can be so valuable. Sometimes I just can't get something until I see what I'm doing wrong. It sounds like you are making real progress with this!

Straightforward, thanks for sharing that video. You are a lovely rider (I'm jealous of those long legs.) It was nice to see the progression as the ride went on. The canter transition tends to be a struggle point in my riding. It was helpful to see how you guys progressed through it.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:06 pm

Quinta, fingers crossed about horse #2!

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Sue B » Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:45 pm

I rode this weekend (Fri-Sun), so yippee!!!!

Quinta, jingles for horse #2 coming true.
SF, beautiful pictures (didn't look at video yet.)
Demi, I find that the most important thing for me during upward transition into canter is to keep my whole front up and open. maybe that'll help?

So, Tio is busy blowing out a foot abscess :x and subsequently, is very lame right now, dangit. Naturally, it showed up in all its glory on Saturday. I did ride my Rudy though and simply had a blast, even though he uncorked Sunday when he didn't get to go down the road before arena work. Such a cheeky little monster. Gotta say, though, once he got over his little snitfit, he went to work beautifully. We didn't do anything more challenging than trot hp I suppose but worked on having very nice basics, and even threw in a few half steps at the end. One of the best moments was powering up the hill near my place--it felt like he was an airplane about to lift off! :shock: It was so. much. fun!! Anyway, I'm glad I bundled up and rode and I hope T's foot gets better soon.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Moutaineer » Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:41 pm

Sue, I hope Tio's abscess isn't the saga Laddie's has become.

(He is doing better, but still not entirely sound. He is feeling better in himself though, so i think we are on the mend, after 6 weeks.)

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:25 am

Straightforward, i think Annabelle started off quick but not off the leg and thus did not do well in the canter transition, i think that once she slowed down and was more relaxed off the leg, she picked up the canter better. Have you ever tried a full turn on the forehand off the outside leg into the canter? I can try do one and have M video to show you what i mean, once the horse is higher level i like a turn on the haunches into the canter but i do like the TOF into canter too.

I think Tesla is looking like she is stretching in to the contact.

Aleuronix your approach with Kora sounds great, I so look forward to her progress

Demi, i think we do not learn by being prefect, we learn by correcting our mistakes. JMHO

Quinta, good luck

those struggling with abcess, good luck.

thank you Lipsmacker.

my old truck has become so high in miles and beginning to show so much wear and tear i decided i really needed a new beast to pull the trailer for showing et al. So i dragged my hubby truck shopping and settled on my first ever Chevy. I tried the Ram, the Ford, the Tundra, and since i buy second hand to avoid that first year massive devaluation, so it turned out the Chev was the best , i preferred the drive and I liked the options, so it came home with me ( along with the car payment for the next number of years) oh well, it is what it is
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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:30 am

Good luck with the absesses, Sue and Mountaineer.

Susan! Ouch!!!! I’m not going to tell you old people shouldn’t get on ladders, because I get on them myself. Just be more careful, please! Save the bod for horse injuries, at least!!!

SF, nice job with the right lead. I admire your ability to just keep your position and keep asking. Thanks for sharing that. It’s very helpful to watch. I can see Annabelle’s stiff right side and the improvement by the end of the vid. Rocky used. some of the same evasions so I can really relate.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:34 am

Chisamba wrote:Straightforward, i think Annabelle started off quick but not off the leg and thus did not do well in the canter transition, i think that once she slowed down and was more relaxed off the leg, she picked up the canter better. Have you ever tried a full turn on the forehand off the outside leg into the canter? I can try do one and have M video to show you what i mean, once the horse is higher level i like a turn on the haunches into the canter but i do like the TOF into canter too.


I agree, Chisamba. She starts sucking back as soon as I start preparing her for canter, and my instructor is trying to get us to where I can really ride each stride through the transition and maintain a connection. I think where the video starts, she had already told me to canter, and I felt A sucking back a little, so I was having to push her on to feel like there was enough energy there for the canter depart. Once we get the first canter out of the way, she blocks me a lot less, and it gets better. I had another lesson tonight and we went through pretty much the same thing in the smaller indoor arena. She also had us canter right, then trot a volte to the left and pick up the right lead again as close to X as possible, really keeping her into the left rein in the change of bend. She also made the comment that not getting the right lead is about not being in front of the leg, but we are at the point that IFL needs to be achievable within the bend and connection. I have done the TOH, change the bend and canter with her, but not recently. It might be time to revisit it with the better strength she has now. :)

Tesla started out perfect today, and then took a turn back towards growing roots. Our indoor is only about 60' x 120' and I think she found it that much harder to make it around the smaller space in the trot, so she took it on herself to object, but at least it didn't escalate past kicking at my leg a couple times. We finally got past it, and I'm hoping weather will allow some more outdoor rides where I can sneak in some smaller circles and get the point across that I can help her balance if she'll let me.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby mari » Tue Dec 01, 2020 7:13 am

StraightForward wrote:I agree, Chisamba. She starts sucking back as soon as I start preparing her for canter, and my instructor is trying to get us to where I can really ride each stride through the transition and maintain a connection.


SF I love your video and the detailed way you describe it. t/c/t is absolutely my nemesis, but I've found that my current work really helps with a horse that tends to suck back. We start off not caring about the connection at all. The only thing that matters is that when I give the canter aid the horse CANTERS NOW. I give the aid quietly and if nothing happens I thump with my leg and give a sharp whip aid. It can be as ugly or skew or llama-like as he wants. We do a t/c transition at every quarter on a 20m circle, with only a few steps of trot. And the magic thing is that as soon as my horse gets in front of me and rolls into the canter transition promptly with a tiny aid, the connection through the transition resolves itself.

But obviously we're all different, just want to chime in with what works for us, because like I said, it really is my least favourite transition ever :lol:
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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:31 pm

mari wrote:
StraightForward wrote:I agree, Chisamba. She starts sucking back as soon as I start preparing her for canter, and my instructor is trying to get us to where I can really ride each stride through the transition and maintain a connection.


SF I love your video and the detailed way you describe it. t/c/t is absolutely my nemesis, but I've found that my current work really helps with a horse that tends to suck back. We start off not caring about the connection at all. The only thing that matters is that when I give the canter aid the horse CANTERS NOW. I give the aid quietly and if nothing happens I thump with my leg and give a sharp whip aid. It can be as ugly or skew or llama-like as he wants. We do a t/c transition at every quarter on a 20m circle, with only a few steps of trot. And the magic thing is that as soon as my horse gets in front of me and rolls into the canter transition promptly with a tiny aid, the connection through the transition resolves itself.

But obviously we're all different, just want to chime in with what works for us, because like I said, it really is my least favourite transition ever :lol:


That is more the approach I take when I'm riding on my own, but 95% of the time I'll get the left lead, so then we have to go around in CC for a while and try again on the right lead. My instructor wanted to get A to really sort it out and figure out how to get the lead from a nice shape right away and not throw herself onto her right shoulder for support. She comes from out of state, and with winter weather and covid getting worse, it might be a while until she is able to come back, so I think she wanted to leave me with some benchmarks to work towards. We have definitely done the yeehaw and go thing in previous lessons!
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby khall » Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:29 pm

SF have you ever spiraled in at the trot and then as you spiral out canter? I worked with Jane Savoie years ago and that was one of her exercises for a greener horse to help get the correct lead.

I also like using SI straighten then canter. Or LY to sideline and canter.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby heddylamar » Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:48 pm

I use the spiral or leg yield to canter with greenies. It works great.

At some point, once they're with the program over half the tine, I quit pushing into the canter. So trot leg yield to canter [horse rushes], come back to walk. Start over. Sometimes a ground pole prevents rushing — leg yield out, ground pole + ask.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:06 pm

khall wrote:SF have you ever spiraled in at the trot and then as you spiral out canter? I worked with Jane Savoie years ago and that was one of her exercises for a greener horse to help get the correct lead.

I also like using SI straighten then canter. Or LY to sideline and canter.


Yep, we've done all that too, it's just a bit of a growing pains period, expecting more organization and fewer preparatory exercises. We used LY on the circle last night to get the right lead the first time or two.

We've used poles too, but it's been a bit since I've used trot poles as a canter preparation.

I also incorporate canter departs after doing trot lateral work exercises or figures. Really getting a good transition riding on the 20m circle or straight line is the toughest!
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Sue B » Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:47 pm

With Rudy, who prefers w-c over t-c, I actually use the t-c-t to test if he's in front of my leg and is he straight. I recall a time when he was schooling 2nd level, that he found t-c-t inordinately difficult "all of a sudden" so I do think it's a developmental stage many horses go through as they move up the levels and learn to really engage the hind end.

Tio was practically hopping yesterday, he was in so much pain :cry: Today he is happier despite not having more banamine so I'm hoping the infection has finally popped out through the coronary band. i didn't have time to remove the wrap though this morning, so I'll see at lunch today. Poor baby.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby mari » Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:27 am

We have a lesson tomorrow, so I did some FC practice today. The terrible changes now tend to happen exactly on the aid, and even when we're working on changes a lot, the counter canter and changes of bend remain very secure. He waits obediently for the aid, and then throws us around like a sack of laundry, and voila we're on the other leg. Progress of sorts...
The aim of argument or of discussion should not be victory, but progress. ~ Joseph Joubert

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Dresseur » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:47 pm

So, I thought I was controlling the shoulders - until I figured out that I wasn't really... and oh what a difference shoulder control makes!

So, Andrea had given me the piri on a square exercise - at first I was to straighten, then put haunches in, do a 1/4 turn in pirouette and then straighten and repeat. It became blatantly obvious that Miro was just doing some sort of pseudo half pass. So, the exercise became - put M in haunches in, do my 1/4 turn, STAY in haunches in and do not deviate from the line I'm on, next 1/4 turn, stay in haunches in etc... All that to say, that I had to figure out how to keep him from just diving the shoulder over. I'm about 2 weeks into the exercise and I'm suddenly aware of how much drifting was happening, not just in M, but in other horses. So, even heading across a diagonal line, I'm now hyper-aware of when the shoulders start drifting to the wall. I had felt the shifting, but was trying to fix it by leg yielding the other way or in haunches in, thinking that i needed more and more haunches, when in fact, the horse was just moving the shoulders back in front of the haunches. I'm now easily able to hold my line and all of my rides have gotten much better, which makes me happy.

In Miro's case specifically, that extra shoulder control translated into amazing control of the changes and much, much straighter changes. I can now piri, and leave on a diagonal and do 3s or 2s - more and more mistake free, and all clean. The half steps are still a work in progress, but I think some things are starting to click. Andrea is going to sit on it maybe next week as a check in, but she hasn't sat on him in months, so I'm happy to say that all of this training is again mine. :)

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Tanga » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:01 am

I've been having to work on controlling the shoulders, too, which you think I would have gotten. For some reason my half passes have gotten really bad. My knees have always been bad, but they've been worse lately, so maybe that's it. I don't know.

I usually try to fix them by going back and forth between hp, leg yield, hp, circle, and such. I also do a lot of shoulder fore and haunches in in the circle. I wasn't fixing it.

Chelsey had me work on thinking it through and doing it in a new way, and I can see it helps, though I'm having to work through the feeling that my body is twisting all over. I want to push with the outside too much and take over with the hands. To fix that, I'm feeling like I am holding the reins much more with both hands and pulling them to the outside (when in reality they are straight) and really sitting to the inside more by feeling like I'm pulling my outside shoulder way back, or even looking back.

I can see it is helping. Both horses were getting kinked in the neck and dropping the inside shoulder. I can see and feel that now. Quilla's GP hp was getting to be a flat shuffle. This is mostly about me retraining my body to keep it where it needs to be and correcting them when they start to fall on the inside shoulder. Both are responding well to me riding better. I just need stamina now.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:29 pm

Tanga and Dresseur, I just want to say that I really enjoyed your posts. Even though I’m struggling with training level myself, both of your posts were so clearly described that I could totally picture them. Thank you! And I am looking forward to vids and pics of Miro, and the two elegant mares.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:33 pm

when exvet was talking about shoulders I shared my mantra expecting hallelujahs. lmao. the horse should come to the outside rein, not through the outside rein, every stride of every move.

it was so profound to me and completely inconsequential to everyone else. but both Dresseur and Tanga just described exactly that in different words.

miro should not drift through the outside rein to the rail, in the pirouette, in fact ever, and what a difference that makes to everything. I agree. its a very profound and important concept. :!: :idea:

furthermore, Tanga just completely explained my comment that sometimes all the lateral work in the world does not fix the problem. equal into both reins and straight. even if it feels not straight to you. brilliant Tsnga, absolutely profound. thank you for sharing.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Dresseur » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:02 pm

Chisamba, I need to go and find what you wrote - sometimes when I don't log on for a while I miss things in the thread! But yes, yes to what you said! Although... what Miro was doing was bringing the shoulder to the inside and dropping the outside rein connection slightly- not blowing through the outside. So, I have to hold the shoulders back on him. I can more readily feel when they are blowing through the outside, but couldn't feel him leaning over on the inside. The shoulders drifting to the wall were on some other horses - and always on the diagonal... so I'd aim for the corner and hit well before lol... you think I'd have a clue. In any case... it is definitely profound!

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Ryeissa » Thu Dec 03, 2020 5:44 pm

Tanga wrote:I've been having to work on controlling the shoulders, too, which you think I would have gotten. For some reason my half passes have gotten really bad. My knees have always been bad, but they've been worse lately, so maybe that's it. I don't know.

I usually try to fix them by going back and forth between hp, leg yield, hp, circle, and such. I also do a lot of shoulder fore and haunches in in the circle. I wasn't fixing it.

Chelsey had me work on thinking it through and doing it in a new way, and I can see it helps, though I'm having to work through the feeling that my body is twisting all over. I want to push with the outside too much and take over with the hands. To fix that, I'm feeling like I am holding the reins much more with both hands and pulling them to the outside (when in reality they are straight) and really sitting to the inside more by feeling like I'm pulling my outside shoulder way back, or even looking back.

I can see it is helping. Both horses were getting kinked in the neck and dropping the inside shoulder. I can see and feel that now. Quilla's GP hp was getting to be a flat shuffle. This is mostly about me retraining my body to keep it where it needs to be and correcting them when they start to fall on the inside shoulder. Both are responding well to me riding better. I just need stamina now.


I did all my party tricks to help with the shoulder tipping in the HP- all good stuff- but my most recent breakthrough is to add much more energy. I had to use that push to help the horse band in the proper direction AND STAY there. At some point the babysitting needs to be less and the horse has to hold up himself. (more or less). I think it's all coming back to the same ideas- shoulder control and bend control. My horse is a super wiggly worm so its a constant battle. I should say I'm only schooling 2nd/3rd stuff so not as high up as you both.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Chisamba » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:31 pm

Dresseur wrote:Chisamba, I need to go and find what you wrote - sometimes when I don't log on for a while I miss things in the thread! But yes, yes to what you said! Although... what Miro was doing was bringing the shoulder to the inside and dropping the outside rein connection slightly- not blowing through the outside. So, I have to hold the shoulders back on him. I can more readily feel when they are blowing through the outside, but couldn't feel him leaning over on the inside. The shoulders drifting to the wall were on some other horses - and always on the diagonal... so I'd aim for the corner and hit well before lol... you think I'd have a clue. In any case... it is definitely profound!


I think we all have hallelujah moments that others do not have or had so long ago that are they not comment worthy.

so my mantra, come too the outside rein not through it ..... still applies because Miro was evading the first part of the equation,?

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Ponichiwa » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:54 pm

We all learn in different ways. I saw a pretty good quote from Kyra Kyrklund about getting the horse in front of the leg-- mentally replace "capture the shoulder" or whatever you want and it stays the same:
“In front of the leg is a bit hard to explain. It’s a bit like God – everyone has heard of him, but no one has seen him. It is hard to explain the feeling of ‘in front of the leg’ but when it happens, it’s like magic. It is a bit like explaining how strawberry jam tastes – it is easier if you have eaten it before or even tasted a strawberry. It is the same with the good feelings you get when you are riding: think about that feeling, give it a name, then it will be easier to get it back.”


Source: https://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2020/ ... irst-step/

And I think that's what is happening here. It's one thing to read about someone's breakthrough/epiphany/whathaveyou and a totally other can of beans to get one yourself.

Related news: I'm 2 weeks away from being done with work for the year and I. Cannot. Wait.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby khall » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:01 pm

Chisamba this is a serious question do you fix the shoulder issues only with the reins or is your seat and leg aids involved as well?

I’m glad you are lyao that others don’t approach their training the same way you do. Your work with your horses is very inspiring but a different approach than what I’ve studied and learned for years now. I remember reading long ago Balkenhol writing to help straighten the horse and address the side that wants to bulge out ride the horse in counter flexion.

I find that adddressing the hind legs unevenness with lateral work helps fix the shoulder unevenness. Then I don’t have to control the shoulders with the reins the horse is in better self carriage.

Riding Gaila and working counter SI to HI led to fabulous HP that was from kneeling into the inside knee. Where her inside shoulder stood up and her outside hind engaged beautifully. I had to do little with the reins.

Dresseur if I find my horse wants to fall over the inside shoulder I think about holding the shoulders just a half step to the outside. My inside knee and thigh on and reins slightly to the outside but not crossing over.

For me it is never only about the reins. In fact the reins are my last resort. Seat leg reins

Joplin responds so well to seat and legs the reins are not needed much. I ride better thinking of riding with my seat and legs than concentrating on the reins too much.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Tanga » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:44 am

Interesting we're all having the same issue right now! To be clearer, I am ALL about more impulsion and more forward with both horses lately, especially after seeing myself on Pivo so much--I yell at me that I need MORE!

And that was my big go to in HP, but that is wrong for now. Chelsey was showing my by dragging her own legs what she saw the horses' forelegs doing because they were dropping into that inside shoulder. And besides forward, my other big go to is always off the inside leg into the outside rein. But, that was screwing up correct bend, which is a LOT straighter than I think I want. And then, of course, I need to work on wonky body and get them off the inside leg AS I weight the inside hip.

I'm working on that one. Just weighting the inside leg and hip is super hard for me. So, when I lose it and the shoulder falls, it does help to beump them off the inside leg at the girth as I keep everything else together.

And, because they are both more balanced, they are actually more impulsed and forward in the HP.

Also, I've been finding in working on this, I am having a much easier time doing it on a circle. So, HI on a circle and working on the correct neck and where my weight is is clicking in much better than just going straight into a HP normally. Often I'll start on the circle and then go onto the diagonal.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:04 am

Interesting discussion! Getting better control of Annabelle's shoulders was a big focus tonight.

And I finally did a real canter on Tesla, so I'm a happy camper. Well, it is more of a giant lope, but she was a good girl.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Dresseur » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:08 am

khall wrote:Dresseur if I find my horse wants to fall over the inside shoulder I think about holding the shoulders just a half step to the outside. My inside knee and thigh on and reins slightly to the outside but not crossing over.

For me it is never only about the reins. In fact the reins are my last resort. Seat leg reins


This is probably what I'm doing, just holding the shoulders a half step to the outside. And I do a lot of staircase exercises. Hp, straight, or hp, leg yield. But what seems to help the most is just re-establishing a straight haunches in on quarterline. For M, it's when I add the sideways movement, that he just shifts his shoulders over. So I spent the longest time thinking I needed more haunches... but then when I realized how he was just half passing instead of holding a straight line in haunches in, it all became clear to me.

In this case for me, I have the bend... so the fix is a bit more with the reins. He can pretzel himself pretty good, so it's really about holding the shoulders back in those movements - basically holding his neck straight so that I can hold my line and not allowing him to drift.

Chisamba, I have to think about this...
Chisamba wrote: come too the outside rein not through it ..... still applies because Miro was evading the first part of the equation
I guess maybe he is going through that rein even though it feels like there is a good connection because he's not respecting the boundary and staying straight - so when I put my outside leg on, he starts going sideways without respecting the hh on the outside rein that tells him to stay straight.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby chantal » Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:54 pm

Oh my gosh, I've missed a lot. Yes, November went by fast. Between riding, work and not feeling well (weather, flu shot and RA), it's been a busy month. I rode through it all so yay.

You all are really working hard, I'm loving the videos and discussion. Everyone is looking so good, thank you for posting and discussing. Hoping one day to be able to ride pirouettes one-handed like Flight, yikes! Goals... The videos are great, please keep posting. I need some video other than poles/jumping clinics and will post them when I get them. I am also working canter transitions, getting better, but we need consistency. These days are definitely good for working and focusing on our riding while we don't have much else to occupy our time, I will say that.

I also was thinking that in normal times my guy gets 4 days to a week off sporadically and he hasn't had that since June so I am thinking about when to give him a break this winter. It's so good for them, I agree.

So, we added spurs and it's a huge help. I'm also working hard to correctly use my leg. No nagging and no toes out. This time has been great to really focus on my position in detail. We are getting some nice SI and LY now. And our lesson last week was so relaxed, with impulsion and energy. In the middle of a 10m sitting trot circle he sneezed and shook his head and ears while keeping his back up and not losing rhythm. My instructor and I cracked up. And he was totally relaxed at the end, so he knew he had done well and was very pleased with himself. They are so funny.

The poles lessons have been great for footwork and canter work and my outside rein connection is so much better. I do need to get a better pair of reins that I don't let slip for jumping as I shorten my reins and let them slide through while we work, or maybe it's just me. We are working on it. I am also working on my fitness to help, not gonna complain, but ack. I hate RA.

And we finally moved on to oxers, albeit baby oxers. I've even put my stirrups up one more hole since then. Working on another hole but my body has to get used to this position first then go one more. Trying not to break me. Pics for fun. I'm laughing in th one because it was our first time up this line (3 oxers with one stride between fences) and he tried half-heartedly to duck out but then willingly went but oh my gosh... He's ridiculous.
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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby exvet » Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:11 pm

Nice pics Chantal! I absolutely love your horse's facial expression over each jump. He looks so keen and willing.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:35 pm

Nice update Chantal. Love that you're jumping and cross training!

I was planning to give Annabelle a break for the same reason - no work travel forcing breaks since May this year. However, I decided I might as well wait until it's colder and the outdoor freezes up. I'm realizing that at that point I'm going to have to haul Tesla to a larger indoor if I want to work on canter at all this winter, so logistically, it will be much easier if I'm not also trying to keep A in work 5x a week.

I also can't believe we are 5 days into December already! Annabelle was totally delightful last night. She warmed up and went on the bit and forward more quickly than usual, and the right lead issue was much better. I think she only missed it once, and it was partly pilot error. The counter canter and simple changes are coming along, and we can get W/C without it being a Big Event now, mostly.

Tesla was a good girl and we gave canter another try. Our outdoor is sloped, and yesterday she was stuck to the uphill long side that I use to ask for canter, and the whole turning left thing was escaping her, so we only managed one corner before breaking back to trot, but the weather is looking good, so I'm hoping we'll conquer cantering all the way around by next weekend. So glad she is trying, and the stopping is getting less and less. She even seems to be having moments of enjoying herself, and I'm finding little openings where I have a chance to introduce proper aids bit by bit.
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:12 pm

Today I'm checking out a trainer and a horse, all in one.

I love the L Judge I've been lightly working with but our schedules are really tough to sync up right now. And the horse I can use for lessons (a friend's) is limited in what he can do because of an old stifle injury.

The trainer I'm seeing today is much less qualified. But apparently she has some horses that she can use for a nice lunge lesson which I desperately need right now. she sounds more like an all-around trainer a little bit of dressage a little bit of jumping. If she's okay, I was thinking I could lightly use her top in conjunction with the L Judge. We will see. I'm pretty picky, I have ridden with less quality instructors before and one of them really hurt my riding and my confidence in myself actually.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Sat Dec 05, 2020 4:15 pm

Also, thanks to the ongoing discussion, I'll be paying a lot more attention to the shoulders!

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Flight » Sat Dec 05, 2020 9:30 pm

Really nice photos Chantal! Both of you look happy.

Good discussion on shoulders, I've realised that ding leans on his right shoulder when we do piaffe and I have to catch it at the start or have him in more of a renvers type position to not let it happen.

We had our end of year dress up day for working equitation so I wore a dress. It was a cheap one off ebay and my mum had to sew it to fit me. But ding was ok with it!

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He is getting to know the obstacles really well now and can do the smaller circles with the changes. I still really need to be doing this all one handed, but that's hard and I'm taking the easy way out by not doing it.
There's some comps on next year, about 3 hrs drive away though but I'm going to make the effort to go. I think this is more our thing than straight dressage. Pushing Ding to make expressive movement that he just doesn't have, makes me feel mean.

Some vid from the day:

https://youtu.be/qTpP_rxQy8s

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby chantal » Sun Dec 06, 2020 2:43 am

Thanks :D

Flight, that is so awesome!! I have some friends into working eq. I'll have to go watch.

exvet-he is such a happy guy, the willingness is something I don't take for granted.

SF, I hear you. I hadn't let the weather deter me until today, just too cold and windy. Ugh. It would be weird to be here and not ride. I guess I would still go out and check on him and groom him, but time off would be good. I'll wait for a cold week, great idea. Your girls look great!

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby blob » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:40 am

Flight--so fun to see you and Ding in action. I really wish there was more of a WE community here. I would love to do it with MM and I think she would really like it. She's very purpose driven and practical. So I think obstacles would really click for her. When we have to collect or do a change in order to go through something, she picks up very fast. On my own I'm not sure how to get started on WE. But maybe I can find some books or videos

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby demi » Sun Dec 06, 2020 12:48 pm

Love the pictures, Chantal and Flight! The one of Flight and Ding is framable! I heard your friends singing Lady in Red in the video. That was funny! But the picture is really pretty.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby StraightForward » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:34 pm

Lovely ride Flight! That looks like so much fun. :)
Keep calm and canter on.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby khall » Sun Dec 06, 2020 3:57 pm

Flight that was so much fun to watch! WE and garrocha have peaked my interest these days. We’ve played a bit of garrocha with Cedar and next month I’m hosting a WE fun clinic here.
Flight gave you delved into the cow aspect of WE? Our WE of Georgia also does cow clinics because of that portion of WE
Blob how close are you to Aiken? I know of two people hosting WE clinics with two different instructors. One is monthly.
Also join the FB group WE of Georgia they do a good bit north Atlanta. Barbara Caiado of DP saddlery also hosts several clinics with different clinicians every year. Last was Brendan Wise. I really wanted to go but was just not the right time. Those clinics are in Alabama though. Laurie Wilson and Betsy Fajen are the two most into WE in Georgia. Betsy is north Atlanta though she just had a baby so not sure when she will be back at it. Laurie is W Atlanta. Both travel to do clinics.

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby Flight » Sun Dec 06, 2020 9:44 pm

Blob, if you can find a clinic to go to, even to watch, that would be a fast track way of learning what to do for working equitation.
Demi - yes how funny is my friend! She cracks me up all the time :D

We haven't done any cow work yet. Finding the resources is a bit tricky, where we have our club days there's no cows etc. I would say I'd be hopeless at that phase!!

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Re: Putting 2020 in Hindsight: November-December Goals and Progress

Postby blob » Sun Dec 06, 2020 10:52 pm

khall wrote:Flight that was so much fun to watch! WE and garrocha have peaked my interest these days. We’ve played a bit of garrocha with Cedar and next month I’m hosting a WE fun clinic here.
Flight gave you delved into the cow aspect of WE? Our WE of Georgia also does cow clinics because of that portion of WE
Blob how close are you to Aiken? I know of two people hosting WE clinics with two different instructors. One is monthly.
Also join the FB group WE of Georgia they do a good bit north Atlanta. Barbara Caiado of DP saddlery also hosts several clinics with different clinicians every year. Last was Brendan Wise. I really wanted to go but was just not the right time. Those clinics are in Alabama though. Laurie Wilson and Betsy Fajen are the two most into WE in Georgia. Betsy is north Atlanta though she just had a baby so not sure when she will be back at it. Laurie is W Atlanta. Both travel to do clinics.


Thank you, very helpful!


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