Article on Miguel Tavora

[Lipsmackerpony88]

https://www.horsemagazine.com/thm/2020/ ... ung-horse/

I stumbled across this series on FB. I did not previously know of Miguel Tavora, all I know is from this article. I'm thinking I might pick up his book though.

I found this very interesting to read. I have come across some types that are very much in one camp or another regarding what type of system they train with. From reading this, the emphasis that both Miguel Tavora and Nuno Olivera used a blend of different methods from Baucher to Steinbrecht is interesting. I find it refreshing. I know too many that vilify one system over another and like the series said many are using a blend more than they think they are. Too much stereotyping done in Dressage imo. There is a big picture that I look at, much deeper than judging first by what system one trains.

I've heard many times that anyone using a more German based system is hard handed, heavy and cruel. Caring only about ribbons. And I've heard that those in French or Iberan schools of thought aren't real riders, ride front to back or horse is hollow all the time. Certainly, there are those that fit this, but absolutely I don't find this to be the case for all. Not even for most. And certainly not anyone on this forum!

If anyone know more about Miguel Tavora, I'd love to hear more. I personally do train in a more German like fashion but as said above I think there is a blending of most systems today and I think it's fascinating to read about.

[khall]

Lipsmacker I like the Portuguese style of riding. In particular coming from Nuno Olivera. Mark Russell who I rode with for almost 10 years rode with NO and now I ride with Cedar Potts-Warner who is the head rider of JP Giacomini who also rode with NO. That style of training speaks to me the most. I’ve also been exposed to the SRS through Rochavanski (sp) who was head rider under Podhajsky (sp). Yet it is the NO that I gravitate to. Cedar I feel is doing a great job of taking this training into the competitive world showing and winning at GP.

I am not familiar with this trainer but anything with a NO basis is so similar. Why I like Anja Beran so much. Her trainer was a long time student of NO.

Friends and I also rode at the Valenca’s in Portugal. Wonderful training there with foundation from NO. They even train the airs

[Ryeissa]

I have now blended the systems of the french, german and biomechanics. It depends on the student/horse and how they like to learn.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@khall Anja Beran is lovely!

I guess I don't like to stick to one box too strictly. I think it depends so much on the horse. I have been trained probably most in a German like fashion, but like I said in my OP, I think there is a lot of blending of systems for most.

Do you find the more Portuguese style to be very different from French? My exposure to French riding hasn't been good but I think it's not represented well where I am. But honestly only some of it speaks to me, not much though. But again, doesn't mean that I don't use some principals from it in my riding!

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@Ryeissa yeah I think that's partially what the article was getting at and that's my view too. Depends so much on the horse, I think it's beneficial to take a little bit from different type of systems to apply to different types of horses.

[khall]

I am not a fan of Legerte’ with PK at all. Now Col Carde and Master T ( can’t spell his name but head trainer of Samuer I like) saw Master T co teaching with Bettina D several years ago. Loved him.

For me it took me years to find the one method that I wanted to follow whole heartedly. When we lost Mark in 2016 gosh it was difficult to go on. I like riding with Jillian Kreinbring as well but cannot get her here anymore and she prefers teaching her courses or from her farm. Cedar though fits my horsemanship well and has a wide range of background from starting youngsters to GP to garrocha to riding bridleless

Last clinic I was riding HP with Gaila and she said that is a show HP not very advantageous biomechanically ( shoulders were leading ) she had me go for more parallel to the sideline standing gaila up more and engaging that outside hind. That is the beauty of the NO work not based on the dressage levels and tests but how to train the horse for the betterment of the horse. It’s challenging

[Ryeissa]

@Ryeissa yeah I think that's partially what the article was getting at and that's my view too. Depends so much on the horse, I think it's beneficial to take a little bit from different type of systems to apply to different types of horses.

I tend to come at this from a training scale philosphy but applied in lightness. Working over the back and filling the reins. I have used flexions but very carefully- they can create wobbliness and false contact quickly in my horse.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@Khall ah yes just like with anything, I guess, it depends on who it is! And Dressage is subjective too. I will look up more on Carde, I've heard of him but haven't looked in depth.

I know Cedar looks like a very good trainer! I saw some of her work with the Thoroughbreds. Very cool.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Ryeissa, seems like a very logical approach to me.

I really just like to not think about anything in absolute terms, especially with an animal. Although I do understand people that want to stick closely with a system. I just tend to think of it not as one being better than the other more just something working better for others sometimes.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

His book is like $16 on Amazon Kindle. I think I might go ahead and get it. Worth checking out. From the reviews I've seen it has a lot of good exercises in it.

[khall]

I’ve done this dressage thing for a long time. Almost 40 years now started with eventing dressage. I appreciate the system that stems from NO and that continuity between the different instructors. Except Bettina Drummond. I did not like her approach when I audited her. I don’t see a reason to look at other styles with any depth. I’ve worked within this system with a wide range of horses. It works for them all. It boils down to balance and how you teach the horse to be better balanced under a rider.

Now I’ve ridden with others some and audited others like Kottas and enjoyed him. Won’t spend $300 to ride with him though! And the week I spent in Spain riding with that instructor who had gone through the royal school of Andalusia was good to ride with though different. But I rode the horses they trained.

But when it boils down to spending money to ride my own horses with a trainer I’m pretty darn picky these days.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Khal, I will bow humbly at your experience, I've only ridden for about 24 years and Dressage on and off for 15 years. But life sometimes gave me multiple hiatuses! I'm not a rank beginner by any means but I'm very much in the conscious incompetent stage

I personally just found it interesting that the author states that Steinbrecht was an influence on NO. To me they shows a blending of ideas or at least an open mindness to it. But I could be wrong.

Either way, I find it all very interesting. I've been very happy with my more German/training scale based training (but I suspect there is a blend.) I too am picky about who I ride with, no matter who is who!

But again like I said, I do understand why some are closely devoted to one system over the other. I will say when I am checking out trainers and they trash other trainers or other systems right off the bat it does turn me off.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I've heard that about Kottas from multiple people. I'll keep that in mind to audit him and not ride given the chance. Money is definitely too precious.

I have seen Cedar in videos and she's a really nice rider with a nice approach. Better than that type of really the wannabe's in this area in the West.

[khall]

Lipsmacker I’m not saying the NO is the only way for everyone. It just is for me though I’m game to audit many different trainers I just won’t ride with a mix at this time. Yes Cedar is a very accomplished rider and trainer for her young age. I really appreciate being able to learn from her.

As for picking stuff from different styles and applying to my own horses I do more picking from outside the dressage world. I’ve done some NH training and will refer back to that at times and I follow Karen Rohlf have actually ridden with her as well but get more out of her videos than I do in person lessons. She’s different and does a blend of work with emphasis on relationship. Beautiful rider.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Reading Miguel's book now, I'm really enjoying it! Very clear and concise. It does explore a bit like in the article above which works for me. I'm very much a "pondering and thinking" type.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

@Khall I think so much of it depends on the person too. While I like when I notice trainer's have close relationship's with their horses, if it's too flowery or touchy feeling it doesn't work for me. That really surprises people! I'm always told I come off very kind, patient and empathic. And always told I'm a soft and quiet rider (it's almost a running joke lol.) But the thing for me is, the relationship, bond and partnership all already comes easily. So those types of trainers do really tend to like me, but it's not something I feel I need to be trained in. I need to get to the Dressage! How to put the relationship in motion basically.

My point is, after my random rambling, u I wonder if my personality/where I'm at as a rider also probably influences what type of training system works with me, as well as which horse I'm working with. It's a balance though.