Hard to sit trots

[khall]

Seems like several of us have hard to sit the trot horses. Rip is mine. My two mares are easy even though Joplin has a big trot still very easy to sit on her. Gaila is just smooth.

The difference between my mares and Rip is the two mares are more naturally higher in the neck conformation. Rip struggles to elevate his front end in the trot. Canter is good. So I was lunging him last night watching his carriage from trot to canter. He has no trouble staying up and out in the canter but as soon as he trots he lowers his head and neck. Preferably in a stretch his favorite way of going. So last night when he would trot from the canter I was asking for him to stay up and out with his neck. He was funny because he would just canter again. When he did stay in the trot and I could keep him up he got almost that second trot look. I’m thinking I’m need to ride asking him to stay up and out with the reins (like what demi is doing with Rocky) to see if I can encourage more sit behind in the trot. I’ve done this to help the piaffe work under saddle and have done this in the canter though don’t have to now. Really think I need to explore this type of work in trot.

Any other suggestions?

Once we quit being so wet and sloppy rain I will get the pivo going!!

[Koolkat]

I use to ride a Friesian/TH cross that had a trot like a jackhammer. He was pretty to look at with all his hair and his high neck set and front end movement, but he had a very wimpy hind end. It took about 3 months (I only rode him once/week, sometimes twice - his owner was a hunter/jumper type with an obsession with "round", so he had some contact issues also) but he finally started using his hind end and bending his joints. Presto, the problem was fixed. The breakthrough happened on a day when we were working walk/trot transitions, a favorite low level movement for me. They are hard work for the horse (particularly one like this), so I don't over drill.

[demi]

I’ll be interested in this thread. Ive been thinking and working on it a lot. All the stuff about riding up in front plus riding every step so she never gets out of balance (in theory, anyway!). I also do a lot of the walk trot/trans that Koolcat mentioned and they are helping. I had some really nice sitting trot Tuesday but no vid because the bad weather was starting. I haven’t even ridden since Tuesday because the worst cold front since 96 or 97 came through. My arena is 2 inches of solid ice....

I have thoughts to add when I get a chance, plus I’ll get some video as soon as possible. I have the “before” vids but don’t want to post till I get some “after” because the before is pretty awful!

[khall]

Rip is fairly along in his training so he can go from half steps to medium trot or WT in lateral work like SI or HI. HI transitions are more difficult but we do them a good bit.

We do all the classic engaging work of skipping gaits or RB to trot and canter etc so he’s plenty strong enough to do this work. I think though now I need to insist he stays up and out and give me a place to sit.

[khall]

Just watched a video live from the Valenca’s (they are on FB and share videos quite frequently in training) they were using a neck rope to help with the horse understanding to lift out of the base of the neck in their work. I’ve used one before I certainly can try it again with Rip

[Koolkat]

Rip is fairly along in his training so he can go from half steps to medium trot or WT in lateral work like SI or HI. HI transitions are more difficult but we do them a good bit.

We do all the classic engaging work of skipping gaits or RB to trot and canter etc so he’s plenty strong enough to do this work. I think though now I need to insist he stays up and out and give me a place to sit.

The small print/problem is that if the horse isn't working correctly over the back to the rein, it doesn't matter what "movements" you do, the muscling is not going to be correct and bending of the hind end joints will not be either. If the horse is "leaning", he's pushing, not carrying, and not using the hind end correctly. Riding them "up to heaven" facilitates correct use of the hind end.

[khall]

Koolkat Rip has beautiful muscling both in his back and his neck but his preferred method of going is out and down ( he used to curl but as he has gotten stronger no longer an issue) and not up and out at the trot. Has no problem staying up in the canter. In piaffe work I had to show him with the reins to come up and out and now I think I’m going to have to so the same in the collected trot

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 590&type=3

This picture shows his neck placement which comes out lower than my other two mares I ride which is why he finds it more difficult to come up and out. Actually with all the collected work his neck has changed considerably now. But I’m working against his conformation and natural inclination. It’s coming. But it will take time to build the strength he will need to carry himself in this manner.

Working on it. Worked on line last night to see how it’s going on and definitely seeing a difference. Now see if I can reproduce it US. Does not help he is wide to sit on which makes it difficult to get my leg down and around him.

I had this discussion with another poster re getting the horse up. I’ve had to with Rip show him the way to up and out with the reins indicating not just pushing him into the bridle and having him lift out of the base of his neck. It just did not compute with him to engage and lift through activation of the HQs for him to lift until I showed him with the reins he could. Now his sister Gaila had no trouble with this concept and in asking half steps met the bridle and lifted out of the base of her neck. He’s a boy and likes to challenge you.

So in piaffe I literally used the reins to lift him up and out. Same in SW. now piaffe work does not require that. I think I need to use this same concept but in a forward trot. Itching to get on and try it. But he cannot hold it that long yet.

[Flight]

I had to do similar with Norsey. People had told me for ages "oh he'll stop curling when he is stronger" and he never did.

I agree that they have to work properly to give you a back to sit to, but I'm going to say a different saddle made quite a difference for me.

[khall]

Flight I don’t think a different saddle will make that big of difference in Rip. Though I have Joplin’s Adam Ellis I can certainly try. I think part of my issue similar to you and Norsey is Rip is a wide load of a horse. I struggle to get my leg down and around him. My other two are wide but are a hand smaller. It makes a difference.

For me it’s not so much about working over the back. That is not really the issue with Rip but the elevating the front end engaging the sling in the trot. I saw it very clearly last night on line. I’ve been playing with passage steps asking Rip to bring those front legs up and out with tickling him with a long whip. Should try bamboo. I was targeting the base of his neck and there it was. He was lifting out of the base and floating more out with the front legs while keeping the activity behind. It was nice to see.

[lorilu]

Raises hand! Bravo is famously hard to sit - every trainer I have worked with tells me. As a Lusitano he LOOKS like he is using his back - his ass is nicely rounded - but he isn't. Look closely and you'll see his hocks just out a bit behind.
WHat usually works for me is LOTS of walk warm up with lots of changing bend laterals, then a brief run of posting trot, and then going directly to canter, often a very deep and round and on the forehand canter - then bringing him up and finishing the warm up.
Doing transitions within the trot - piaffe-passage-collected-medium - all mixed up really helps get him using his haunches. I used to do the classic piaffe-walk-piaffe transitions, but then he started using the piaffe against me as an evasion rather than collect the walk. So I went to trot transitions.

We are still working on getting the withers up. Khall I would love to know how you are getting Rip up in his withers..... we can get it with my trainer on the ground with a pole, but I dont know how to keep it myself......

[Chisamba]

I used to think think a sittable trot came from relaxation and correct use of the back, but I do not think that anymore. the horses that hold their backs stiffly ,or have very little back swing are the ones easy to sit.

the hundreds of lovely lesson horses with no connection and downhill builds, easy trots to sit.

I know the current ideology is that the more correct a horse is the easier to sit. try this. get your horse in its most relaxed forward stretch trot you have and sit without disturbing the rhythm or tempo.

if you can sit that elastically you'll have no trouble with the collected or extended gaits. passage now that's another story

[Koolkat]

I wouldn't dispute that ^^^ relative to use of back, but that's a different variation on a theme (ETA: The context is a "jackhammer trot" issue). Western pleasure horses shuffling around comes to mind. That horse still isn't giving you a place to sit either. Beyond that, I was OK with those "waves of energy" coming over the back. Downright thrilled, actually. (Although your point is taken). Just like the horse, the rider has to use their body also.

[Josette]

Just like the horse, the rider has to use their body also.

I've struggled with the sitting trot especially when I was having physical issues of stiffness and being crooked - years behind a desk. At one point, I realized I was over focused on being too quiet in my body parts and not allowing myself to follow. moment was watching videos of professional trainers on youngsters freely trotting forward. I observed these riders posting and sitting trot by riding erect centered posture without body stiffness. They bounced too but it was in rhythm with the horse.

[khall]

Rode my hard to sit trot Rip today. Concentrated on trot. Ugh it’s hard! I do think asking him to stay up and out with the reins will help. May add in neck rope and keeping him in SF helped. He also needs to lose a few pounds. He’s a bit chunky makes it even harder to get my leg down and around him

[Chisamba]

have you seen the De Kunffy ( are you ready for flying changes) thing going around face book? https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 3622272234

okay. okay, I know I am being pedantic. but if you sat the extended trot with a " motionless torso" wouldn't you be stationary in the dirt while your horse trotted of without you? lol.

okay but even if he means quiet, I still don't think it is correct.

just me?

[Ponichiwa]

have you seen the De Kunffy ( are you ready for flying changes) thing going around face book? https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 3622272234

Man. This reads like a classic case of "if you're not perfect, don't do it." Never mind that in order to get to that level of perfection you have to improve your imperfections via practice.

Flying changes aren't some magic mystical unicorn that requires you to be perfect. Not even the 1s (although of course they improve when the riding improves). This stance of "you have to be flawless before you try" discourages people from the sport.

[Josette]

Totally agree and those comments are what gets someone like me off track because I could interpret literally - at least I did in the past.

OT - many years ago I heard a western trainer comment that too much movement in the saddle was "screwing the saddle".
That would not go over well today with students .....

[khall]

Had the best sitting medium trot twice out of Rip today. I think I might have the key to him. Leg on more. For years I’ve ridden with a light leg because he was an energy conservationist. Well he’s much more forward thinking now with training to go off light aids. So I’ve been twiddling with the sitting trot from half steps to piaffe to collected to stretched to medium just trying to figure out what works. With Joplin I tend to ride with more leg contact so I’ve been giving it a go with Rip now too. Cedar had also had me doing so in the canter. Well today just made my day. He kept his HQs under and active reached through his back and carried me with him. It was actually easy to sit.

Hopefully I can continue to reproduce this and it will up the quality of our work overall. I think it really helps to not be afraid to try different solutions to the problem.

[demi]

Khall, I agree that it helps to not be afraid to try different solutions to the problem. But it has taken a long time to be aware of exactly what I’m doing so that I can know for sure which different solutions are actually working. For example, I’ve recently experimented with using stronger leg, and it seemed to make a difference. But after a couple of rides using the stronger leg, I realized that it wasn’t simply the stronger leg that was making a difference, it was that in order to use a stronger leg, I had to coordinate my overall position. When I was able to coordinate my position, and KEEP it, I still needed a stronger leg, but not as strong as when I started experimenting with it.

I really need the video to see if what I’m thinking here is really what’s going on. But since this sitting trot thread started, I haven’t been able to ride or video consistently because of the weather. I had three rides this week and the sitting trot felt really good. I felt in control of being able to cause it to happen, but I couldn’t keep it for more than 10-15 strides before losing it again. I think the main reason I lose it is that she just isn’t strong enough.

It’s raining right now and it looks like rain and clouds for the next 5 days. I should be able to at least ride in between showers but no video...

[khall]

Demi my stronger leg which is more like keeping it wrapped around Rip is stabilizing my seat better. I’m concentrating on rolling my thigh and knee in and keeping steady contact from thigh to calf. The rolling of the thigh in helps to stabilize my upper body allowing me to attain a neutral pelvis. Using positive tension to maintain my position not just balance

We’ve had a beautiful week here and I’ve ridden as much as I could in between other appointments but our up coming week is supposed to be wet again.

It’s the anniversary of dad’s death tomorrow and our family is getting together at the cemetery in honor of dad. He was a huge UT/Vols fan so we have a new flag for his gravesite. We also have a new family member Norah was born last month to my niece.

[Tanga]

have you seen the De Kunffy ( are you ready for flying changes) thing going around face book? https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 3622272234

okay. okay, I know I am being pedantic. but if you sat the extended trot with a " motionless torso" wouldn't you be stationary in the dirt while your horse trotted of without you? lol.

okay but even if he means quiet, I still don't think it is correct.

just me?

This is why I don't like him. It doesn't work and it doesn't make sense. When he was doing one of the "L" program training sessions way back when he used to say stuff like this all of the time and it drove me crazy. He has all of these philosophies that sound cool but if you have really ridden and trained and had to deal with it, it doesn't make sense. You can't sit any trot without motion. You'd be popping right off the horse. The more you move and follow the horse, the more quiet you look.

I think sitting hard trots also goes back to our conformation. I have way too much curvature of the spine, to the point that standing up straight hurts. I also have lots of back injuries and a very short waist. I think this has made it more difficult for me to follow and sit than other people. I notice that people with very long waists seem to have an easier time of it. I don't know. Maybe.

But I think the key to all of it is finding a way to relax and follow the movement. One of the things that works for me is to feel like I am opening up my thighs and allowing the horse to come up into my seat. If you look at my videos, you can see when that is working and when it's not! I'm am varying back and forth between that very light open seat and just "flopping," and that open seat and pulsing with the lower leg.

[Ryeissa]

I don't think this is an either relaxed or tone situation. What do you mean by relaxed?
I like to think of it as the right joints opening the right amt
The muscles have the right amt of give and tone

For me I have to have more tone to sit properly and support myself.

Tanga- I have a long torso and have a really hard time sitting.

But like a lot of things....its hard

[khall]

Rye that tone is what I’ve come to realize is what I need to sit Rip’s trot. It’s taken me forever to come to that understanding! But what a difference if I do keep the leg wrapped and on with tone but not clamped.

I had my reasons to ride with a very light leg I just don’t think it’s the right thing anymore if I want to move forward both in all of my work with all 3 of mine.

Did not get to do anything this weekend spent yesterday with farm chores and today family get together at the cemetery to remember Dad and more farm chores.

[Tanga]

By relaxed I mean sitting on a horse with no tension, so much so that you are following every movement and not restricting them at all. This is, I think, THE most difficult thing to do. If you need to, you can add a little squeeze regularly or here and there to add rhythm, but it is VERY relaxed and following. You can flex or relax one isolated muscle as needed to make adjustments. It's hardest on horses with hard trots that get tense.

But, if I'm using muscle ALL of the time, the horse isn't learning to carry themselves. The goal is to say, "here is where I want you" and then sit quietly and let them do it. And then it's back and forth between making corrections. The better they are in this, the less you have to do. This has really helped me in the p/p. I was WAY overriding it before and interfering. Now I mostly try to just sit and follow and give the slightest flexing movement to keep the rhythm.

I can literally flex one butt muscle to get the canter out of any of my horses. I can breathe out deeply to get that down transition. They can feel a fly. They are super sensitive. It's just a matter of us making it all a lot less "work" and interfering with them, while training them to listen to it and be strong enough to carry it out.

[khall]

Tanga that’s so much easier on a horse that naturally goes which Rip and Gaila do not. They are better than they were and I feel I am making aids smaller on them but they are so different to ride than a horse like Joplin that has that innate go to her.

I did read an article on helping the sitting trot and it talked about exactly what I’m doing of more leg contact to help keep from bouncing. I’ll see if I can find it a d post the link.


I actually prefer riding those more sensitive types. Makes my job easier. I’ve had to train that sensitivity and go into Rip and Gaila. Carefully with Rip. Since he used to take the ask for more energy as a yee haw aid. First time I came off him I asked for a bit more trot when he was 3 ended up hanging off my flex rail fence

[Koolkat]

But CdK also said with a supple lumbar..............I think he is simply separating the "lower trunk" from the "upper trunk". And that's what I was referring to relative to the rider having to "work" also. Work is a relative term, when you're physically fit, what is work for some is a stroll in the park for others. You don't want to block the horse's back. I agree about the horse "filling the seat", it's akin to the horse "filling the rein". Someone ^^^ mentioned riders bouncing, in my mind, that is the same as intermittent rein contact (with rider at fault). The horse does need to be "forward", not exactly the same as just "going". They need to be in front of your torso, it's the core that keeps them out there. I'm also tall/proportionally waisted/long limbed, so got lucky with some of those conformational challenges.

[Flight]

Chisamba, that's an interesting point you make. I actually haven't ridden sitting trot on that many horses. Mostly just my own.

When I watch myself bouncing along I think I need more tone, I look like there is too much movement. Although I'm not skinny, so I think that's just my fluffiness bouncing. But I guess it's where you have the movement that counts. I thought you needed to move through your hips, not lumbar?

[Ryeissa]

yeah, I think this speaks to opening the hip flexors and joints vs muscles.

You have to open the hip flexors. The lumbar needs to stay in neutral spine.

[Chisamba]

despite my rotund appearance I do not have wide hips and my hip flexor are not equally supple. I really find it difficult to ride on a saddle with a wide twist. So for me at least it is not wide open hips a loose thighs that enable a better sit.

I was thinking about how it felt when I sat Caliburn today. it is most exhausting to the lower torso muscles. I think I accommodate the stride by contacting and relaxing lower abdominal, lower back and psoas . my knees are low. so avoid the rising knee, and my heels are out.

I do not sit back in the saddle , I try to find the middle. nor do I make my seat heavy.

don't polish the saddle or grind the saddle with your seat, lift the saddle and replace it.

anyway. in order to sit quietly your muscles have to be working furiously

[Chisamba]

https://youtu.be/yhLxOguN9rM

video of me sitting Caliburn. He is my hardest to sit horse. I don't know if it will be helpful or not.

[khall]

Chisamba that looks very familiar!!

[demi]

Thnx for the vid, Chisamba. He looks like he has a longish back. My hard to sit horse has a short back. It’s helpful to see the different ones. Reading descriptions is helpful, but seeing it is much more helpful for me personally.

[khall]

Demi yes Rip is short coupled too. This is a short clip of Rip. I’ve lost at least 20 lbs since this video thank goodness! Need to lose 15-20 more

https://fb.watch/422QEoLSxm/

My other two are a breeze to sit. Go figure. Gaila is actually easier to sit that to post to

[Tanga]

despite my rotund appearance I do not have wide hips and my hip flexor are not equally supple. I really find it difficult to ride on a saddle with a wide twist. So for me at least it is not wide open hips a loose thighs that enable a better sit.

I was thinking about how it felt when I sat Caliburn today. it is most exhausting to the lower torso muscles. I think I accommodate the stride by contacting and relaxing lower abdominal, lower back and psoas . my knees are low. so avoid the rising knee, and my heels are out.

I do not sit back in the saddle , I try to find the middle. nor do I make my seat heavy.

don't polish the saddle or grind the saddle with your seat, lift the saddle and replace it.

anyway. in order to sit quietly your muscles have to be working furiously

Interesting. Looking at the video, you did what I would have recommended to sit better--did a little SI. And you sat better. I think doing lateral work helps you find the sitting trot better. The other thing that may or may not work is just going slower. Both of my leasors have a hard time sitting my older mare's trot, mostly because she wants to go 100 mph. I told them both to bring her back to whatever trot is easy for them to sit and go from there. It does help she can piaffe, so they can have her think that and get her in the mindset, and then work slowly forward from there.

I think I am similar build to you. I don't have particularly wide hips and have very tight flexors. But after much learning about saddles, I think I much prefer wide twists. I think it may be because I don't feel like I have to close my legs to hold on, but can just sit and relax and follow.

I was thinking of that watching you.I agree with not polishing or grinding into the seat, but if I were saying something to you, I would tell you to move more--follow with your hips, let them sway from side to side and forward and back with the motion of the trot, forcing you to relax and follow more, thus by moving more, you sit more quietly. Make sense? That's what I tell myself and everyone else.

This is what I mean by relaxing, so I don't like the idea of muscles working furiously. You have to relax and follow with your soft tissue and skeleton furiously to get that stillness.

This is the first video that came up when I searched, and I know some people don't like her, but this shows the idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29tzSVH5ccw

This might be useful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYBz061BrqQ

This is not on a horse, but shows the movement I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_yYoxbBPVQ

[Chisamba]

I make minor adjustments from horse to horse but the original question was how to sit hard to sit horses and I posted the video in reply.

The things I do not recommend are slowing the horse to make it easier to sit, because we do want to be able to show the horse at its best gait. I post , when I like the tempo I sit and attempt not to change the tempo connection or relaxation, then I post again until I have learned to accommodate the gait.

I also do not try to ride a hard to sit trot with a passive seat, particularly Caliburn who is built upside down and was driven in a check rein for years. I have ridden with 2 clinicians in particular who resulted in my.poor horse having a very sore back the next day, despite being given accolades for how wonderfully I ," improved, " through the clinic.


I used to ride miles and miles bareback on the beach from dawn to dusk. I would take 6 of my horses to our beach home and sea salt is awfully hard on the tack. Never ended the day with a sore backed horse. Anyway. I am as imperfect as can be but I do sit a lot of trots. if youall think I look like a sack, I guess I'll just live with it.

[Chisamba]

you all had me looking at my many self critique videos analyzing my sitting trot.

[khall]

I especially like that first video Tanga posted.

[Tanga]

Chisamba, please don't take anything I said to be derrogatory to you! I don't read every post, and sometimes I just jump in at the end and add things. I was just posting observations in one moment in time (you could get me plenty with my videos!) and thinking things through. It's meant to be a more general conversation about the overall topic and my though process with videos I found that help.

And in the vein of overall conversation, I brought up riding a slower sitting trot in response to what I told my sponsors because of my older mare. It would of course, depend on the horse. They were both thinking her super forward I need to go 100mph trot was correct. When they slow her down, she actually comes back to a very correct collected trot, instead of the on the forehand running. The idea is that you never know what sparks helpful ideas for people. Often people just write something randomly that really helps me rethink things.

[Ryeissa]

I make minor adjustments from horse to horse but the original question was how to sit hard to sit horses and I posted the video in reply.

The things I do not recommend are slowing the horse to make it easier to sit, because we do want to be able to show the horse at its best gait. I post , when I like the tempo I sit and attempt not to change the tempo connection or relaxation, then I post again until I have learned to accommodate the gait.

I also do not try to ride a hard to sit trot with a passive seat, particularly Caliburn who is built upside down and was driven in a check rein for years. I have ridden with 2 clinicians in particular who resulted in my.poor horse having a very sore back the next day, despite being given accolades for how wonderfully I ," improved, " through the clinic.


I used to ride miles and miles bareback on the beach from dawn to dusk. I would take 6 of my horses to our beach home and sea salt is awfully hard on the tack. Never ended the day with a sore backed horse. Anyway. I am as imperfect as can be but I do sit a lot of trots. if youall think I look like a sack, I guess I'll just live with it.

? I didn't get that from anything posted. I'm always glad to see videos as they really help us understand more than a still photo can.

[demi]

I’ve been trying to get video for this thread since it started. It’s either been raining or extremely windy. Its supposed to be windy for the rest of the week but maybe I’ll think of a better way to anchor the soloshot so it doesn’t blow away. I tried putting it in a protected spot yesterday but it was so windy that my horse never relaxed enough to do much sitting trot. Between being worried that the camera was going to blow into the arena, and then the chicken gate blew open so I had chickens in the arena, and then the broken trees from the ice storm started cracking more....I did get some fun screen shots of Rocky’s spook haha but very little good sitting trot.

[demi]

I am going out on a limb and posting some sitting trot video. It is just the beginnings and I can see some things to fix. For one thing, I need more connection in the right rein most of the time. I can get it when I focus on that alone.

The vids show the progression in one session, from working trot to sitting trot.

https://youtu.be/7wwXe8s2dP8
https://youtu.be/Yyf_dK36qBA
https://youtu.be/oZ6P4WT3moc

[demi]

And here is the nervous tension toward the end of the session. I take her as far as I can until she has had enough (see vid) and then go back to free walk on a long rein, marching and not on the forehand, and then end.
https://youtu.be/mxBunFA8Iw8

[Chisamba]

Demi one video did not play for me, but I liked how your sit trot seemed to maintain the same energy as the rising trot

[StraightForward]

Your sitting trot looks good to me too! One very small thing I noticed with the third video, is that when you went rising for a few strides, it looked like you tipped the balance forward, and then tipped back to a more vertical balance when you went back to sitting. If you think a little of stretching up the front and pushing more horse out in front of you in those rising strides, I think the balance will be maintained more between the sitting and rising. Rocking is looking great!

[demi]

Chisamba, thanks for your comment. I appreciate your observation. Rocky has a lot of natural energy so I don’t have to work at keeping the energy up when I go from posting to sitting.

[demi]

SF, thanks for the observation. I didnt notice it at first but when I looked back after your comment I can see it. I lean forward at other times, too, and will keep in mind your suggestion. It is an ongoing process trying to keep her downhill front end in front of me! It seems like a really fine line between having more horse in front of me vs behind me. I guess, in addition to her downhill build, her short back adds to the problem.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

Demi, you and Rocky are a lovely pair. Thanks for sharing.

If she's really very downhill, then you ride her well. She is pretty mare.

[demi]

Thanks, Lipsmackerpony. Rocky is definitely downhill at 14.2 in front and 14.3+ behind. At one point I thought about putting shoes in front but even that wouldn’t be enough. Plus she doesnt need shoes and I don’t want the hassle that shoeing can sometimes involve.

I think it’s hard to figure out why some trots are hard to sit. Last night I was thinking about muscle type and wondering if short, thick muscling might make them harder to sit. Like the difference between human sprinters vs distance runners. Longer muscles just seem more elastic.This morning I went back and compared the vids on this thread of Rip and Caliburn’s sitting trot with Rocky’s and I see similarities and differences in all three. Rocky has muscling more like Rip’s, but Caliburn looks like he has longer, more slender muscleing, yet all three are hard to sit.

So then I started looking at backs and it reminded me of the trampoline discussion. I think of the “trampoline” effect differently than some. When I think of “trampolining” I think of just the soft, gentle, up and down elastic movement where your feet dont even leave the surface and you’re just barely moving the tramp. Rocky’s short back is not elastic in an up and down way like that. And, even tho Cali’s back looks longer than Rocky’s, I don’t see any up and down elastic. I think his sitting trot look just like Rocky’s feels. If that makes sense. Where as Rips, even though short, looks like it has some up and down elasticity. And still his trot is hard to sit...go figure.

[demi]

I forgot to add that I recently found out that YouTube’s can be slowed down easily using the gear thingy. It makes it a lot easier to study videos.

[StraightForward]

I think being a little downhill can be part of it, as well as horses that have more upright pasterns, so less of a shock absorber. At least with the downhill build, if they can get the butt down and get into a more level to uphill posture, the trot gets more comfortable to sit. And then there is just natural elasticity. Of course I am not sitting Tesla's trot on purpose for any length of time, but sometimes I have to sit for security or to drive her out of one of her stall-out attempts, and I'm amazed at how relatively easy her trot is to sit. There is a lot of motion there to absorb, but because of the natural elasticity, there are no jarring parts to her stride, plus each stride is longer and slower, which gives more time to adapt and go with the movement. There is a smaller DiCaprio son at the barn who I've ridden a few times, and he has a ton of Boing! in his trot that I find quite challenging to sit. I think it is because he is more compact and thus each boing comes faster. If you think of it as a sine wave, his trot would be a smooth wave, but very steep with deep troughs and high peaks, whereas Tesla's might be as deep and high, but the slopes are not as steep, so it is easier to follow.

I have lessons on Sunday and Monday, so I'll try to get some video on A to post here.