Will Faerber again

[Ponichiwa]

I get it, I get it, the riding is not great. But it's cruel to post screenshots and ridicule people for their riding. That's unsporting.

I feel that way about Olympians and I feel that way about local yokels nobody knows outside of some part of California.

[Ryeissa]

I get it, I get it, the riding is not great. But it's cruel to post screenshots and ridicule people for their riding. That's unsporting.

I feel that way about Olympians and I feel that way about local yokels nobody knows outside of some part of California.

Fine, I don't agree but I will delete since I don't want any more drama. I was only posting still shots to show the points about how the horses are going.

[Ryeissa]

Rye, the photos you posted are of Legolas and his owner Amber. I think this one is about 'putting it all together' and being in collection. The post by Legos prior owner is above.

Yeah, I know. I was answering LSP's comments about the video and the use of elbows. I don't know anything about each horse. LSP linked to this video and I just took screen shots to show how the biomechanics are wrong. Then Ponichawa said I was being mean so never mind

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I'm not trying to criticize any of his followers in their abilities. If anything I think some of them have better technique than the leader himself. But there is a distinct thing with the hands going on there and I've seen videos of well with his elbows back behind him and hands near his hips. Which to me is very extreme and I haven't seen too many other Dressage riders do that... except maybe some extreme rolkur. It's interesting that the rider's posture is similar Even though they are going for a very different outcome.

But I don't mean any actual disrespect to anybody in the videos just the technique itself.

[Belladressage]

The idea behind the way they sit is to stretch yourself up in the saddle to create a light seat and the leaning back to help engage the hind/back. The moving hands is to keep contact and ask the horse to stay in the stretch when the head comes up (even the tiniest bit obviously). Since they ride with very long reins ofcourse Will advises people to widen their hands when the head comes up so you dont have to gather the reins all the time. Just wilden them till the slack comes out of the reins and bring them back together when the horse goes down again.
Abd about the kicking legs... enjoy https://youtu.be/U5HWhvDV9gw

[goldhorse]

Its interesting. I have a Morgan horse and student who could benefit from some deep stretching like this once in awhile for like 5 minutes.

When you discover the secret for getting a Morgan to reliably do a deep stretch, can you let me in on it?

[Chancellor]

Its interesting. I have a Morgan horse and student who could benefit from some deep stretching like this once in awhile for like 5 minutes.

When you discover the secret for getting a Morgan to reliably do a deep stretch, can you let me in on it?

Sure. We are getting there!

[Ryeissa]

I'm not trying to criticize any of his followers in their abilities. If anything I think some of them have better technique than the leader himself. But there is a distinct thing with the hands going on there and I've seen videos of well with his elbows back behind him and hands near his hips. Which to me is very extreme and I haven't seen too many other Dressage riders do that... except maybe some extreme rolkur. It's interesting that the rider's posture is similar Even though they are going for a very different outcome.

But I don't mean any actual disrespect to anybody in the videos just the technique itself.

same. I never said anything about the rider.

[Ryeissa]

Its interesting. I have a Morgan horse and student who could benefit from some deep stretching like this once in awhile for like 5 minutes.

When you discover the secret for getting a Morgan to reliably do a deep stretch, can you let me in on it?

10 yrs, lots of swearing, blood, sweat and tears? (Kidding??? sort of)

[Chancellor]

I get it, I get it, the riding is not great. But it's cruel to post screenshots and ridicule people for their riding. That's unsporting.

I feel that way about Olympians and I feel that way about local yokels nobody knows outside of some part of California.

I don't know what Rye actually said as she has deleted her comments.
But if you put videos out on youtube, I think some amount of commenting should be expected.

[Tanga]

The idea behind the way they sit is to stretch yourself up in the saddle to create a light seat and the leaning back to help engage the hind/back. The moving hands is to keep contact and ask the horse to stay in the stretch when the head comes up (even the tiniest bit obviously). Since they ride with very long reins ofcourse Will advises people to widen their hands when the head comes up so you dont have to gather the reins all the time. Just wilden them till the slack comes out of the reins and bring them back together when the horse goes down again.
Abd about the kicking legs... enjoy https://youtu.be/U5HWhvDV9gw

OK. I know I shouldn't even bother, but this video shows a complete lack of understanding of biomechanics and how this actually work. You can always tell when people have never really done any of this by the way they explain. The "third use if the leg" makes no sense. It's not at all about putting the spur into the side to get the back up. The back comes up when the hind legs come under and carry, lifting the back. So the use of the leg is asking for more forward, but restricting that into up, which becomes sitting behind, which brings the back up. And, no, a quick jab with both legs is not the way to get forward--it's a pretty crude. Well trained horses are much more refined than that.

[Ryeissa]

I get it, I get it, the riding is not great. But it's cruel to post screenshots and ridicule people for their riding. That's unsporting.

I feel that way about Olympians and I feel that way about local yokels nobody knows outside of some part of California.

I don't know what Rye actually said as she has deleted her comments.
But if you put videos out on youtube, I think some amount of commenting should be expected.

I didn't say much, actually. It was taken out of context.... just that this isn't collection/good biomechanics. Which is ALL TRUE.

[Ryeissa]

not good mechanics, ever.

[Ryeissa]

The idea behind the way they sit is to stretch yourself up in the saddle to create a light seat and the leaning back to help engage the hind/back. The moving hands is to keep contact and ask the horse to stay in the stretch when the head comes up (even the tiniest bit obviously). Since they ride with very long reins ofcourse Will advises people to widen their hands when the head comes up so you dont have to gather the reins all the time. Just wilden them till the slack comes out of the reins and bring them back together when the horse goes down again.
Abd about the kicking legs... enjoy https://youtu.be/U5HWhvDV9gw

oh my. this is not good teaching. Do people actually believe this? It will be a disaster for the poor horses.

[Chancellor]

I didn't say much, actually. It was taken out of context.... just that this isn't collection/good biomechanics. Which is ALL TRUE.

So, one of those screenshots are taken at unfortunate times during the posting which isn't quite fair. BUT, that said, I agree with you that the biomechanics are not particularly good.

I have not seen the video you took these out of. The question is, Are they claiming that this horse is demonstrating good biomechanics?

If this woman posted her video asking for a critique and Will thinks that she is demonstrating something good...well, then discussion should ensue. However, if Will is saying that she needs to improve, then well, it's not quite fair to show her demonstrating bad biomechanics, is it?

Say I posted a video of myself riding dressage and a western pleasure board looked at my video and said "Oh she is demonstrating really bad western pleasure" it wouldn't be fair.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I didn't say much, actually. It was taken out of context.... just that this isn't collection/good biomechanics. Which is ALL TRUE.

So, one of those screenshots are taken at unfortunate times during the posting which isn't quite fair. BUT, that said, I agree with you that the biomechanics are not particularly good.

I have not seen the video you took these out of. The question is, Are they claiming that this horse is demonstrating good biomechanics?

If this woman posted her video asking for a critique and Will thinks that she is demonstrating something good...well, then discussion should ensue. However, if Will is saying that she needs to improve, then well, it's not quite fair to show her demonstrating bad biomechanics, is it?

Say I posted a video of myself riding dressage and a western pleasure board looked at my video and said "Oh she is demonstrating really bad western pleasure" it wouldn't be fair.

My take on that particular video was that it was a demonstration of how correct and good the program was. I didn't think that will commented a whole lot on her position or anything. But the goal of the program or at least the very focus is that really extreme stretching for almost the whole time. They did talk about the horse needing to be rehabbed and all that.

Normally I do agree about not doing screenshots because they can be misleading. But from watching the video I don't think they are misleading in this case. It is very representative of what the whole program is about and what it is geared towards.

[Koolkat]

The idea behind the way they sit is to stretch yourself up in the saddle to create a light seat and the leaning back to help engage the hind/back. The moving hands is to keep contact and ask the horse to stay in the stretch when the head comes up (even the tiniest bit obviously). Since they ride with very long reins ofcourse Will advises people to widen their hands when the head comes up so you dont have to gather the reins all the time. Just wilden them till the slack comes out of the reins and bring them back together when the horse goes down again.
Abd about the kicking legs... enjoy https://youtu.be/U5HWhvDV9gw

OK. I know I shouldn't even bother, but this video shows a complete lack of understanding of biomechanics and how this actually work. You can always tell when people have never really done any of this by the way they explain. The "third use if the leg" makes no sense. It's not at all about putting the spur into the side to get the back up. The back comes up when the hind legs come under and carry, lifting the back. So the use of the leg is asking for more forward, but restricting that into up, which becomes sitting behind, which brings the back up. And, no, a quick jab with both legs is not the way to get forward--it's a pretty crude. Well trained horses are much more refined than that.

Ditto. A cue to ask the horse to "lift the back"? Just NO.

Lateral suppleness leads to longitudinal suppleness. That's basic stuff.

I do feel for his clients, you know they just want the best for their horses. Unfortunately he's no isolated event, and worse, seems to have gone off into his own rabbit hole vs. "trainers" who want to do what's correct, but are working above their paygrade/experience level.

[Ryeissa]

I didn't say much, actually. It was taken out of context.... just that this isn't collection/good biomechanics. Which is ALL TRUE.

So, one of those screenshots are taken at unfortunate times during the posting which isn't quite fair. BUT, that said, I agree with you that the biomechanics are not particularly good.

I have not seen the video you took these out of. The question is, Are they claiming that this horse is demonstrating good biomechanics?

If this woman posted her video asking for a critique and Will thinks that she is demonstrating something good...well, then discussion should ensue. However, if Will is saying that she needs to improve, then well, it's not quite fair to show her demonstrating bad biomechanics, is it?

Say I posted a video of myself riding dressage and a western pleasure board looked at my video and said "Oh she is demonstrating really bad western pleasure" it wouldn't be fair.

yes they are saying this is good work.

Will himself is doing the voice over and this is seen as an advanced rider. This is his assistant trainer according to the video summary.

here is the video https://youtu.be/C8VfbAw9Np0

I would never discuss some random ammy on here, but I think in this case he is specifically showcasing his program on his own channel.

No, I didn't pick bad vs good times, and you can see I picked a variety of timestamps to try to show a range of work.

I like the horse and rider very much, as i said before they could do really well in a better program.

[Abby Kogler]

Just listen to how Will describes Legolas in the first minutes of the video Rye posted.

Circle back to the first video they posted of Legolas and Amber, in 2013. They had been in training with Will for about a month.

In Ryes video Will describes Lego as being so severely 'broken in the neck' that it took two and a half years to 'fix'...and that he came to them a bolter.

It is actually fascinating and somewhat mesmerizing to listen to the glib, endless lies that just come out of his mouth, so efforrtlessly.

And since there are at least a bazillion videos on the a2r channel, and they all are espousiing how AMAZING the work is and how AMAZINGLY the horses improve, I dont see a problem with posting them here. The current ones of the two horses in his program are on the private fb page, but there are a zillion on you tube. Depending o how much time you want to waste, there are also a lot of vidoes of Wills band Cathouse Thursday, and if you go way back in time there are videos of Will talking about his movie, marijuana, Twister Championships, what have you. The same themes appear in his music. Its so sad. He actually has a good voice and has written some nice work. Why he has this pathological need to be WILL THE GREAT is just sad. And like I have said, I would just pity him. But not when his personality disorders involve animals. Then, no.

His personailty and quirks and preferences and 'actiing career' are funny but not the issue here. His "method' and the poor lambs who worship him are fair game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2qcoNJFMNQ

[Belladressage]

The idea behind the way they sit is to stretch yourself up in the saddle to create a light seat and the leaning back to help engage the hind/back. The moving hands is to keep contact and ask the horse to stay in the stretch when the head comes up (even the tiniest bit obviously). Since they ride with very long reins ofcourse Will advises people to widen their hands when the head comes up so you dont have to gather the reins all the time. Just wilden them till the slack comes out of the reins and bring them back together when the horse goes down again.
Abd about the kicking legs... enjoy https://youtu.be/U5HWhvDV9gw

OK. I know I shouldn't even bother, but this video shows a complete lack of understanding of biomechanics and how this actually work. You can always tell when people have never really done any of this by the way they explain. The "third use if the leg" makes no sense. It's not at all about putting the spur into the side to get the back up. The back comes up when the hind legs come under and carry, lifting the back. So the use of the leg is asking for more forward, but restricting that into up, which becomes sitting behind, which brings the back up. And, no, a quick jab with both legs is not the way to get forward--it's a pretty crude. Well trained horses are much more refined than that.

I agree with you 100%.

[Ryeissa]

Just listen to how Will describes Legolas in the first minutes of the video Rye posted.

Circle back to the first video they posted of Legolas and Amber, in 2013. They had been in training with Will for about a month.

In Ryes video Will describes Lego as being so severely 'broken in the neck' that it took two and a half years to 'fix'...and that he came to them a bolter.

It is actually fascinating and somewhat mesmerizing to listen to the glib, endless lies that just come out of his mouth, so efforrtlessly.

And since there are at least a bazillion videos on the a2r channel, and they all are espousiing how AMAZING the work is and how AMAZINGLY the horses improve, I dont see a problem with posting them here. The current ones of the two horses in his program are on the private fb page, but there are a zillion on you tube. Depending o how much time you want to waste, there are also a lot of vidoes of Wills band Cathouse Thursday, and if you go way back in time there are videos of Will talking about his movie, marijuana, Twister Championships, what have you. The same themes appear in his music. Its so sad. He actually has a good voice and has written some nice work. Why he has this pathological need to be WILL THE GREAT is just sad. And like I have said, I would just pity him. But not when his personality disorders involve animals. Then, no.

His personailty and quirks and preferences and 'actiing career' are funny but not the issue here. His "method' and the poor lambs who worship him are fair game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2qcoNJFMNQ

yeah, its like dude, just do regular dressage. There is nothing that needs to go to this extreme (whatever this is....?)
Again, I need to speak up when I see bad training especially after Will himself made it a thing. We all need more accountability in the US dressage. Its swindling people for money and at this point they don't have an excuse since he's been a known quantity of weirdness for at least 10 yrs. (That I know of). And its harming horses.

[Belladressage]

I didn't say much, actually. It was taken out of context.... just that this isn't collection/good biomechanics. Which is ALL TRUE.

So, one of those screenshots are taken at unfortunate times during the posting which isn't quite fair. BUT, that said, I agree with you that the biomechanics are not particularly good.

I have not seen the video you took these out of. The question is, Are they claiming that this horse is demonstrating good biomechanics?

If this woman posted her video asking for a critique and Will thinks that she is demonstrating something good...well, then discussion should ensue. However, if Will is saying that she needs to improve, then well, it's not quite fair to show her demonstrating bad biomechanics, is it?

Say I posted a video of myself riding dressage and a western pleasure board looked at my video and said "Oh she is demonstrating really bad western pleasure" it wouldn't be fair.

Yes they claim this is good biomechanics, they got some interesting video's explaining it all for you. I think the 'she needs to improve' part was about her seat and aids as people commented a lot about her use of hand and leg.
https://youtu.be/YfYEAHXGjBE
https://youtu.be/I8cOq7YWXys

Amber didnt post a video and ask for critique. These video's are made to 'educate' people about their training. Show them a full training session to show how the training evolves. Amber was having lessons with Lego but also riding horses for Will.

They do have a 'video critique' service and you sent in your video, pay for Will to critique it so you can lern and end up with him talking non stop about all the bad riding in the world for the full lenght of the video and maybe comment on what's actually going on in the video for a brief moment .

About the 'unfortunate moment' the moment is there... its just one of the many moment and I think we can agree based on the different pictures that this horse isn't really engaged in any of them. But you can watch the video and pause it a few times yourself ofcourse. Anne pointed out to once that eventho there might be a moment in the stride where the horse does look uphill if you pause at the right moment, but its always followed by the horse falling back on the forehand when the next stride begins.

[Ryeissa]

I didn't say much, actually. It was taken out of context.... just that this isn't collection/good biomechanics. Which is ALL TRUE.

So, one of those screenshots are taken at unfortunate times during the posting which isn't quite fair. BUT, that said, I agree with you that the biomechanics are not particularly good.

I have not seen the video you took these out of. The question is, Are they claiming that this horse is demonstrating good biomechanics?

If this woman posted her video asking for a critique and Will thinks that she is demonstrating something good...well, then discussion should ensue. However, if Will is saying that she needs to improve, then well, it's not quite fair to show her demonstrating bad biomechanics, is it?

Say I posted a video of myself riding dressage and a western pleasure board looked at my video and said "Oh she is demonstrating really bad western pleasure" it wouldn't be fair.

Yes they claim this is good biomechanics, they got some interesting video's explaining it all for you. I think the 'she needs to improve' part was about her seat and aids as people commented a lot about her use of hand and leg.
https://youtu.be/YfYEAHXGjBE
https://youtu.be/I8cOq7YWXys

no thanks. I'm good with this and my 10 yrs in a biomechanics specific program (in person lessons and training).

[Belladressage]

So, one of those screenshots are taken at unfortunate times during the posting which isn't quite fair. BUT, that said, I agree with you that the biomechanics are not particularly good.

I have not seen the video you took these out of. The question is, Are they claiming that this horse is demonstrating good biomechanics?

If this woman posted her video asking for a critique and Will thinks that she is demonstrating something good...well, then discussion should ensue. However, if Will is saying that she needs to improve, then well, it's not quite fair to show her demonstrating bad biomechanics, is it?

Say I posted a video of myself riding dressage and a western pleasure board looked at my video and said "Oh she is demonstrating really bad western pleasure" it wouldn't be fair.

Yes they claim this is good biomechanics, they got some interesting video's explaining it all for you. I think the 'she needs to improve' part was about her seat and aids as people commented a lot about her use of hand and leg.
https://youtu.be/YfYEAHXGjBE
https://youtu.be/I8cOq7YWXys

no thanks. I'm good with this and my 10 yrs in a biomechanics specific program (in person lessons and training).

Only watch the video's to have a good laugh! I should have put the disclaimer *drenched in sarcasm* with the 'interesting video's' part

[Ryeissa]

Only watch the video's to have a good laugh! I should have put the disclaimer *drenched in sarcasm* with the 'interesting video's' part

yeah.....Just don't want to give him too many hits on his youtube channel in case its a profit stream. Thanks for clarifying the sarcasm....figured that was the case but you never know.

[Belladressage]

Only watch the video's to have a good laugh! I should have put the disclaimer *drenched in sarcasm* with the 'interesting video's' part

yeah.....Just don't want to give him too many hits on his youtube channel in case its a profit stream. Thanks for clarifying the sarcasm....figured that was the case but you never know.

Both links are not from the art2ride youtube channel so the profit wont go to them.
Re sarcasm, true!

[Ryeissa]

Only watch the video's to have a good laugh! I should have put the disclaimer *drenched in sarcasm* with the 'interesting video's' part

yeah.....Just don't want to give him too many hits on his youtube channel in case its a profit stream. Thanks for clarifying the sarcasm....figured that was the case but you never know.

Both links are not from the art2ride youtube channel so the profit wont go to them.
Re sarcasm, true!

good point, thanks. I think personally I've seen enough to last a lifetime

[Belladressage]

yeah.....Just don't want to give him too many hits on his youtube channel in case its a profit stream. Thanks for clarifying the sarcasm....figured that was the case but you never know.

Both links are not from the art2ride youtube channel so the profit wont go to them.
Re sarcasm, true!

good point, thanks. I think personally I've seen enough to last a lifetime

You sure, you're missing out on the best stuff ever

[Ponichiwa]

I get it, I get it, the riding is not great. But it's cruel to post screenshots and ridicule people for their riding. That's unsporting.

I feel that way about Olympians and I feel that way about local yokels nobody knows outside of some part of California.

I don't know what Rye actually said as she has deleted her comments.
But if you put videos out on youtube, I think some amount of commenting should be expected.

I didn't say much, actually. It was taken out of context.... just that this isn't collection/good biomechanics. Which is ALL TRUE.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but to use another cliche: honesty without compassion is cruelty.

Yes, it should be expected that random strangers on the internet will comment on videos etc if they're put out for public consumption. Understood. But maybe I'm Pollyanna here, but we don't have to be mean... right?

[Ryeissa]

I don't know what Rye actually said as she has deleted her comments.
But if you put videos out on youtube, I think some amount of commenting should be expected.

I didn't say much, actually. It was taken out of context.... just that this isn't collection/good biomechanics. Which is ALL TRUE.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but to use another cliche: honesty without compassion is cruelty.

Yes, it should be expected that random strangers on the internet will comment on videos etc if they're put out for public consumption. Understood. But maybe I'm Pollyanna here, but we don't have to be mean... right?

Who is mean??? I said the rider is very nice.
Mean would be "they are fat and ugly riders, they are terrible...."

I have been a victim of actually mean girls online, so i am very sensitive to that.

This ain't that. I am compassionate to the horses and riders getting swindled. That is not ok. I guess I see this as a theory based discussion.
Photos help us all see the same ideas and images/good reference point
But this is quite the tangent, so can we just move on?

[Chancellor]

I agree with Ryeissa. This is more of a theory based discussion. And an interesting one.
It would seem that Will's supporters came here once to say how wonderful he is but can't be bothered to join in the theoretical discussion.

[Domica]

I think if they were able to hold their own on a theoretical discussion they wouldn't be supporting Will in the first place.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I think if they were able to hold their own on a theoretical discussion they wouldn't be supporting Will in the first place.

Fair point. I hate seeing people getting swindled too.

[Chancellor]

I think if they were able to hold their own on a theoretical discussion they wouldn't be supporting Will in the first place.

I find this very very sad. Blindly following anyone is never a good idea. There is a lot of that in the hunter world. I see it in my niece. I offered to take her to a lesson with a trail obstacle trainer. Her current horse is "afraid of everything" according to her and she had expressed interest in the trail obstacle courses. I said that maybe she could take a lesson on one of his school horses.
Her answer?
"My current (hunter) trainer has brought me so far, I don't want to alienate her by taking a lesson with someone else"

Wow. Really? It isn't even the same discipline! And oh by the way, her current trainer is in a lesson mill type place where students learn to jump before they are well and truly ready.

[heddylamar]

"My current (hunter) trainer has brought me so far, I don't want to alienate her by taking a lesson with someone else"

I will never understand this sort of blind loyalty. The only person who I go back to exclusively is my hair stylist.

Otherwise? If my horse needs a second opinion, I go to a specialist, then tell my vet the results. If I need a jumping-only focused lesson, I go to a jumper trainer v. my eventing coach (yeah, yeah, but it works for me ), then tell my coach what I learned.

New eyes provide different insight ... and possibly better results.

[Chancellor]

"My current (hunter) trainer has brought me so far, I don't want to alienate her by taking a lesson with someone else"

I will never understand this sort of blind loyalty. The only person who I go back to exclusively is my hair stylist.

Otherwise? If my horse needs a second opinion, I go to a specialist, then tell my vet the results. If I need a jumping-only focused lesson, I go to a jumper trainer v. my eventing coach (yeah, yeah, but it works for me ), then tell my coach what I learned.

New eyes provide different insight ... and possibly better results.

Precisely. I have some students now and I ALWAYS encourage taking a lesson with other instructors. You never know when someone says something differently than I do and it just clicks.

[Ryeissa]

Precisely. I have some students now and I ALWAYS encourage taking a lesson with other instructors. You never know when someone says something differently than I do and it just clicks.

yes, that is the sigh of a bad trainer to not encourage others. There is a fine line of course as sometimes a horse needs consistency, and some people get too into random clinics. The one trainer I worked with breifly was always weird about other trainers and they didn't end up having as good of a program.

[APaschen]

I'm sure a lot of the people on this thread won't agree with me but I can only share my personal experience in training many horses using art2ride methods and to watch them), after building up the strength and flexibility that can only happen with the long and low stretching work for a period of 2 years, give piaffe, levade, terre a terre etc at liberty in perfect balance with freedom and beauty. That is my experience and I have yet to see any other training method produce such results over and over. It is hard to understand why anyone would want something else, except out of ignorance and misunderstanding. I thank Will everyday for his generosity and commitment for the sake of the horse. Because of Will none of my horses in training are lame. All have gorgeous top lines, are happy and love to work in the areas of dressage, jumping and eventing.

[Ryeissa]

I'm sure a lot of the people on this thread won't agree with me but I can only share my personal experience in training many horses using art2ride methods and to watch them), after building up the strength and flexibility that can only happen with the long and low stretching work for a period of 2 years, give piaffe, levade, terre a terre etc at liberty in perfect balance with freedom and beauty. That is my experience and I have yet to see any other training method produce such results over and over. It is hard to understand why anyone would want something else, except out of ignorance and misunderstanding. I thank Will everyday for his generosity and commitment for the sake of the horse. Because of Will none of my horses in training are lame. All have gorgeous top lines, are happy and love to work in the areas of dressage, jumping and eventing.

1. So you used long and low work to get collection. Can you discuss how you did this?
2. Did you get any collection under saddle?
3. What breeds are your horses?
4. Have your horses been evaluated at shows to demonstrate proficiency? What scores did they get?
5. Care to share photos of this progression?
6. how long have you been doing dressage?

[Abby Kogler]

I'm sure a lot of the people on this thread won't agree with me but I can only share my personal experience in training many horses using art2ride methods and to watch them), after building up the strength and flexibility that can only happen with the long and low stretching work for a period of 2 years, give piaffe, levade, terre a terre etc at liberty in perfect balance with freedom and beauty. That is my experience and I have yet to see any other training method produce such results over and over. It is hard to understand why anyone would want something else, except out of ignorance and misunderstanding. I thank Will everyday for his generosity and commitment for the sake of the horse. Because of Will none of my horses in training are lame. All have gorgeous top lines, are happy and love to work in the areas of dressage, jumping and eventing.

What other training programs or techniques have you tried? With What biomechanical studies are you familiar?

What proof has ever been put forth that a horse must stay long and low for two years before SI can be atteomted (as claimed by Will)

Please discuss any writings or photos by Nuno, Henriquet, or ANY classical trainer that supports Will Faerbers claims.

Please describe the difference, physologically, between neck extension, long and low, deep and round, and nose dropped to dirt (Wills “deep stretch”)

There are many threads on many fora through the years regarding a2r. Are you familar with these discussions? Will has threatened to sue me; will he sue the many commenters throughout the interwebs? Is he really interested in opening that Pandoras Box?

I am glad your horses are doing well. Every sound trainer knows stretching is good. A2r is a “method” based on misinformation, misunderstanding of biomechanical l principles and inflated bona fides.

[StraightForward]

Where are the videos of the advanced A2R horses riding in collection?

Several years ago I went down a YouTube hole watching some of the videos, both of WF and videos sent to him for critique. I thought it was interesting, but then I kept on looking, and none of the horses ever seemed to advance. It is shocking to even see one of them cantering, much less working in any type of lateral movements or collected work.

Please show, and I will eat my words. Otherwise, I'll stick with my current assessment that the program has many hallmarks of a cult-lite.

[Abby Kogler]

Where are the videos of the advanced A2R horses riding in collection?

Several years ago I went down a YouTube hole watching some of the videos, both of WF and videos sent to him for critique. I thought it was interesting, but then I kept on looking, and none of the horses ever seemed to advance. It is shocking to even see one of them cantering, much less working in any type of lateral movements or collected work.

Please show, and I will eat my words. Otherwise, I'll stick with my current assessment that the program has many hallmarks of a cult-lite.

Well, there are videos that they call collection.. the one Rye posted is called collection. There is one of a horse named Bailador wherein Will exclaims “this is the moment we have been waiting for”... after three years apparantly. You can make up your own mind.

Horses love to sttetch and its good for them. Horses who are held in and kicked will love to stretch. No one is arguing that.

But Wills program itself will harm the horse. I saw it over and over. You cant lunge then every day nose in dirt and the ride them that way without ramifications.

Sweet Perhaps failed her PPE. She is such a lovely little mare and they had her sold to a client of Shannon Peters. Oops, failed the PPE. Guess why

They lie. They lie and defend and excuse and blame. And too many horses have fallen by the wayside.

Anyone who calls him on it is attacked and lied about. Its his pattern.

[Ryeissa]

Where are the videos of the advanced A2R horses riding in collection?

Several years ago I went down a YouTube hole watching some of the videos, both of WF and videos sent to him for critique. I thought it was interesting, but then I kept on looking, and none of the horses ever seemed to advance. It is shocking to even see one of them cantering, much less working in any type of lateral movements or collected work.

Please show, and I will eat my words. Otherwise, I'll stick with my current assessment that the program has many hallmarks of a cult-lite.

https://youtu.be/C8VfbAw9Np0

this is all I have found....???

[Ryeissa]

Where are the videos of the advanced A2R horses riding in collection?

They ain't got none.
I can do a better collected second level test....for whatever that is worth--- mid 60s....and I'm not really thaaaaat good.

[StraightForward]

https://youtu.be/C8VfbAw9Np0

this is all I have found....???

Yeah, I saw some OK working gaits there but no collection Often not stepping under as much as I'd expect for a horse of that type. I skipped my way through since it's long, but only saw some shoulder in. No HP, ToH, much less pirouette etc.

So I guess I will keep waiting for one of his acolytes to make the big reveal.

[Ryeissa]

https://youtu.be/C8VfbAw9Np0

this is all I have found....???

Yeah, I saw some OK working gaits there but no collection Often not stepping under as much as I'd expect for a horse of that type. I skipped my way through since it's long, but only saw some shoulder in. No HP, ToH, much less pirouette etc.

So I guess I will keep waiting for one of his acolytes to make the big reveal.

Yes, I'm eagerly waiting for the Big Reveal as well.

[Abby Kogler]

I think you need to be on fb to watch this, but in case anyone missed it, here is the link to the Baukschow Vampire movie...

Dont say I didnt warn you.


https://www.facebook.com/The-Baukschow- ... 393784949/

[Ryeissa]

I think you need to be on fb to watch this, but in case anyone missed it, here is the link to the Baukschow Vampire movie...

Dont say I didnt warn you.


https://www.facebook.com/The-Baukschow- ... 393784949/

Im scared. what is it?

[Abby Kogler]

Its the movie about vampires sucking menstrual blood that Will acted in.

[Ryeissa]

Its the movie about vampires sucking menstrual blood that Will acted in.

gross. no way do I need to watch that. Creep.