Will Faerber again

[Koolkat]

His personailty and quirks and preferences and 'actiing career' are funny but not the issue here. His "method' ......... are fair game.

[Abby Kogler]

His personailty and quirks and preferences and 'actiing career' are funny but not the issue here. His "method' ......... are fair game.

Ha! Point taken.

Hes accusing me of lying about him and “spreading filth”. He sent his posse here to stick up for him. Im not lying about his methods or his movies.

[Hickory]

Has he really asked for donations to sue Abby Kogler? I am on his facebook group but haven't seen the post

[Abby Kogler]

Yes :/)

I think it was first a few weeks ago... its video of him speaking in to the camera, outing me as Stalker Liar etc etc asking for donations to his legal fund. I guess there is a second one saying he will sue Very Soon.

His peeps have diagnosed me with a variety of mental illnesses

[Hickory]

Hmmm this one? https://www.facebook.com/art.toride/vid ... 724952981/ He is just asking for help to out you, not for donations. Was there another video?

[Abby Kogler]

I cant see that one as I am not a member, but yes, the one I saw with an alter asked for financial support for legal fees for a lawsuit

The request was commented on in a thread on COTH “New Dressage Organization”.

[Ryeissa]

Ryeissa, please point us to your answers to these questions and photos of "collection!" Why does it matter what breeds your horses are? Every horse can be in training (aka dressage) and benefit from it. Also, why do scores matter? Modern dressage judges are giving high scores to hollow horses with a lot of action in their front legs while their hind legs are trailing behind. It's not what dressage was meant to be and it's sad and it's seen at the very highest levels. If A2R has one thing, it's trained my eye! I can now see a horse that's lifting it's back. I can now see a horse that's relaxed and working and not tense. I can now see a horse who's fore and hind diagonal pairs are parallel. And most of all, I can now FEEL a horse that's using his core to lift his back!! It feels amazing and my horses are happy too!

I'm sure a lot of the people on this thread won't agree with me but I can only share my personal experience in training many horses using art2ride methods and to watch them), after building up the strength and flexibility that can only happen with the long and low stretching work for a period of 2 years, give piaffe, levade, terre a terre etc at liberty in perfect balance with freedom and beauty. That is my experience and I have yet to see any other training method produce such results over and over. It is hard to understand why anyone would want something else, except out of ignorance and misunderstanding. I thank Will everyday for his generosity and commitment for the sake of the horse. Because of Will none of my horses in training are lame. All have gorgeous top lines, are happy and love to work in the areas of dressage, jumping and eventing.

1. So you used long and low work to get collection. Can you discuss how you did this?
2. Did you get any collection under saddle?
3. What breeds are your horses?
4. Have your horses been evaluated at shows to demonstrate proficiency? What scores did they get?
5. Care to share photos of this progression?
6. how long have you been doing dressage?

who are you? I was talking to A. Paschen....???

I was asking the person making the claims. its on her to back up statements, not me...... Scores/assesments do matter when you make vague statements about the WONDEFUL MAKIAL trainers. I'm not huge into showing, but it's still a good metric. Its all liberty work, which valuable is not the same as a ridden horse. the weight of the rider/influence of the rider is a whole different ballgame.

I gotz me a pinto ayrab, so clearly no breed issues here

I've been doing dressage for 30 yrs.....no problems here. I am very secure in my methods and have nothing to prove personally.

[Ryeissa]

Actually, there's a lot of theoretical discussion on the FB group. I personally find it much easier to read and follow than this blog interface... so those of you interested in the volumes of theoretical discussion, find us there! And ask questions, the associate trainers and Will are ready and willing to explain it. The amount of time the associate trainers are willing to put into the discussions is remarkable. Why do they do it? Because the horses come first! They want the best for our horses!

I agree with Ryeissa. This is more of a theory based discussion. And an interesting one.
It would seem that Will's supporters came here once to say how wonderful he is but can't be bothered to join in the theoretical discussion.

No thanks. I have no need to use that resource at this point in my riding career. I prefer my real life trainers. I have zero need to watch anything Will does or will teach. His videos were lacking.

[spotter]

I haven't been on here for a long, long time, but the COTH thread sent me back out of curiosity.

All it takes these days to call yourself a trainer is to have students that know less than you do. That doesn't mean the trainer knows much. And as a perpetual student, if I plan to ride in a clinic or take a lesson, I thoroughly vet the instructor/trainer's credentials first. I want to verify they are everything they say they are.

A good trainer who really knows what they're talking about can stand up for themselves with results and doesn't need to round up the groupies to defend them. They don't much care if somebody doesn't like them because their work sells itself, and they realize not everybody will be a fan of every trainer. None of that matters if they actually have self-confidence in their methods and the actual proof, validated by the acceptance of other trainers, that what they're doing works.

To the acolytes of this guy: If you like what he's doing, keep on doing it. Just don't call it dressage, because it's not. Always, always advocate for your horse and it's health first and foremost, and learn about correct structure and biomechanics so you can evaluate on your own rather than blindly following. And maybe look up his credentials yourself...I did, and can't find any evidence that most of it is true.

[khall]

My suggestion to fellow dd posters. Don’t feed the trolls. Aka a2r supporters.
Too cult like

[Ryeissa]

It's a public forum, so even if you're talking to one person, you're talking to everyone. Just seems to me that anyone secure and confident in their training methods wouldn't be on a blog slandering someone else and wasting their time.

And again, scores mean nothing when the wrong things (see below) are being rewarded.

One of the primary reasons I enjoy the Art2Ride FB group so much is because hateful speech isn't allowed and it's strictly enforced. If you post and start a new discussion or thread, it must be about you and/or your horse. So again, if folks prefer a positive productive conversation about training, come join us there! This kind of drama doesn't happen there. We encourage each other and enjoy our horses.

is this an infomercial? do you get a kickback for advertising for will?
We have no drama. We are asking for content and not getting it from any of you.

Many of us here have watched hours of Will's videos and found they don't work for us. We have major biomechanical and other concerns based on our experiences and training. This decision should not be personal or seem like an attack. There are thousands of trainers. Pick who works for you and leave us be. I have my own trainers and they are very accomplished.
This comes across all very cult like, but I've known about will for 10 yrs (?) so its just more of the same. You don't need to try to win me over, don't care.

[Ryeissa]

No drama? Really? This whole post is drama started by Abby Kogler... who seems absolutely obsessed with him (as you do too)! I pointed you to the resources - A2R FB group, his YouTube collection, etc. - and you told me in so many words, "nope, no, thank you! I know better." There's a wealth of knowledge he offers with no drama and no snarkiness to other users who happen to have a different opinion about something. I'm signing off... you win... you've exhausted me! I'm not going to present a theoretical reasoning here because 1.) I'm not the best person to do it (the associate trainers and Will are) and 2.) I don't feel like investing my time in it. I'd rather be riding! Off to go enjoy my horses...

It's a public forum, so even if you're talking to one person, you're talking to everyone. Just seems to me that anyone secure and confident in their training methods wouldn't be on a blog slandering someone else and wasting their time.

And again, scores mean nothing when the wrong things (see below) are being rewarded.

One of the primary reasons I enjoy the Art2Ride FB group so much is because hateful speech isn't allowed and it's strictly enforced. If you post and start a new discussion or thread, it must be about you and/or your horse. So again, if folks prefer a positive productive conversation about training, come join us there! This kind of drama doesn't happen there. We encourage each other and enjoy our horses.

is this an infomercial? do you get a kickback for advertising for will?
We have no drama. We are asking for content and not getting it from any of you.

WE ALREADY LOOKED AT THE VIDEOS. A LOT. that is my point. we were on his site, his youtube, etc etc. That is why we don't think it has merit.
So to keep going down this path makes me think you aren't paying attention....???
He looked flashy and for about 20 mins I was hooked, then I looked deeper and connected the dots, or lack of dots.
Ta Da!
Besides his porn stuff creeps me out. Not someone I want to support. However, I am VERY FAR from CA, and don't care much to be honest. I just don't like swindlers in the horse world that take people's time, money and efforts. Been in that, and my riding has been delayed. But whatever.
See ya.

[Lipsmackerpony88]

I hope the followers go back to their echo chamber!

[Ryeissa]

I hope the followers go back to their echo chamber!

yeah, but isn't it fun?

[Hickory]

One of the primary reasons I enjoy the Art2Ride FB group so much is because hateful speech isn't allowed and it's strictly enforced. If you post and start a new discussion or thread, it must be about you and/or your horse. So again, if folks prefer a positive productive conversation about training, come join us there! This kind of drama doesn't happen there. We encourage each other and enjoy our horses.

It's called censorship. It's impossible to discuss anything there. Comments get closed on "controversial" threads like the olympics and you can't really discuss the method freely or question it. People got banned for it. So if you're a snowflake unable to take any criticism and need constant praise then sure it is for you. Live in twisted reality all you like

By applying his methods, my horses know how to properly use their hind ends and core and lift their backs into the rider plus they're more relaxed and supple!

Yeah sorry but you are delusional. If you ever do anything aside from going in mindless circles you will understand how not supple and how hollow and unengaged your horse is. I speak from experience.

[Ryeissa]

yeah. like this?

[Ponichiwa]

I do like a good "I'm going to go enjoy my horses!" thread-drop departure, though. Textbook flounce.

[Ryeissa]

I do like a good "I'm going to go enjoy my horses!" thread-drop departure, though. Textbook flounce.

Yeah! That's what I was thinking.

[Ryeissa]

Do I get to flounce off too? Or is it just for the new cult people?

[SillyMe]

If you ever do anything aside from going in mindless circles you will understand how not supple and how hollow and unengaged your horse is. I speak from experience.[/quote]

This x1000!

[Ponichiwa]

I think thread-flouncing is fairly equal opportunity. Open to anyone regardless of training philosophy.

[StraightForward]

yeah. like this?

That's about what it looked like when I was a teenage 4-H level western pleasure rider

[Ryeissa]

yeah. like this?

That's about what it looked like when I was a teenage 4-H level western pleasure rider

[Hickory]

I can name every barn he has been in and why he was eventually asked to leave.

I'd listen to the stories The thing with Will is that he sells his method online, to people around the world, most of who cannot reliably verify what he is and what he isn't, I wish I saw this thread years ago when I started following him and payed for a critique, back then there were only positive things about him I could find. When there are negative testimonies as well maybe it will steer at least some potential clients away. He is traveling the world with clinics (pre-covid) -- this also gives him a lot of credibility in the eyes of potential clients (look! he is in demand worldwide!).

[Ryeissa]

I can name every barn he has been in and why he was eventually asked to leave.

I'd listen to the stories The thing with Will is that he sells his method online, to people around the world, most of who cannot reliably verify what he is and what he isn't, I wish I saw this thread years ago when I started following him and payed for a critique, back then there were only positive things about him I could find. When there are negative testimonies as well maybe it will steer at least some potential clients away. He is traveling the world with clinics (pre-covid) -- this also gives him a lot of credibility in the eyes of potential clients (look! he is in demand worldwide!).

yeah, I hope the word continues to get out. For me, there was a lack of advancement in his students and videos that gave me pause. They all do exactly the same thing and its not "going anywhere" as far as developing throughness.

My very lame two cents from noticing this hype for about 5-10 yrs now....
I think he is catering to the crowd who is against hyperflexion but doesn't really have a strong theory base themselves. It looks nice to have the head low ala western pleasure and looks "more relaxed". It does soothe the emotions of people who legitamately want to do the right thing. But as we know its a very extreme type of work that is bad in the opposite direction and the riders lack dressage foundations.

[Chancellor]

quietcreek has been deleted along with all of her posts. If you threaten me, I will delete you. Period. End of Story.

I have removed some other posts too. I'm about to start a new job and I am not taking chances that something happens.

[Ryeissa]

Thanks! I'm sorry it happened to you. Good luck at your new job

[Chancellor]

As far as I am concerned, his training methods are fair game for discussion. So don't be afraid to discuss that.

[Ryeissa]

As far as I am concerned, his training methods are fair game for discussion. So don't be afraid to discuss that.

thanks, but I know i'm ready to move on to content that has more value to us.

[Quelah]

https://youtu.be/bZgbcoWGVvc
It's the hands that get me, broken wrist, puppy dog hands, high and SO busy.

Will is even worse, I've seen videos of him leaning WAY back and his elbows behind his body, see sawing. Which is funny because although the posture and action is different, that's so similar to the position of someone doing some nasty rolkur. It's just where they are putting the horse that's different.

This video is like the AQHA hunter under saddle horses of 20 years ago, before they got so extreme.

[Ryeissa]

Agree

[Chisamba]

ok. I watched the video in the quote above. other than being boring AF. I do not see the wierd gait abnormalities you see at in western pleasure. the horse is not distressed, pretty relaxed. so I don't get the hate.

but that said, this particular house is ridden unrelenting on the forehand and unable to balance itself. it tries a couple of times and gives up in a learned helplessness kind of way. I think healthy horses are trained to carry themselves and their riders equally on all four quarters of the body. So that is my goal in riding and training, so nothing about this appeals to me. I still do not think it's hateful or abusive. I only bothered to read the thread because it keeps on rising to the top of active topics.

[Ryeissa]

ok. I watched the video in the quote above. other than being boring AF. I do not see the wierd gait abnormalities you see at in western pleasure. the horse is not distressed, pretty relaxed. so I don't get the hate.

but that said, this particular house is ridden unrelenting on the forehand and unable to balance itself. it tries a couple of times and gives up in a learned helplessness kind of way. I think healthy horses are trained to carry themselves and their riders equally on all four quarters of the body. So that is my goal in riding and training, so nothing about this appeals to me. I still do not think it's hateful or abusive. I only bothered to read the thread because it keeps on rising to the top of active topics.

I don't think its abusive, no, others have said being on the forehand can cause front feet issues. I don't know about that so I will leave that alone.
I don't "hate" it except this is the assistant rider showing an advanced horse in collection to demonstrate "good riding".
My point about western pleasure is that there is no dressage aspect to this work. the horse isn't learning to use his body. Just flat and not connected.