Will Faerber again

A forum for discussion of training in dressage
Abby Kogler
Herd Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Will Faerber again

Postby Abby Kogler » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:26 pm

This was posted on the Art2Ride fb page, Art2Ride fans and followers. It was quickly deleted of course, but some quick eye posted it on COTH under New Dressage Organization.

"Hey all, the recent thread drama got me thinking about a topic that comes up frequently on the various discussion groups, ie how to find a trainer that wont wreck your horse or get you killed or rip you off financially! There are so many trainers out there, how can we know who to trust or follow? I know that lots of members here live outside the US but you still might find this information useful. Unfortunately unlike some countries the US does not have a federal regulation/accreditation system, and anyone who says they are a trainer can be tada! a trainer. It is a serious case of let the rider beware.

But there are some things we horse owners can do to protect ourselves. The ARICP, the American Riding Instructors Certification Program, is an organization founded many years ago to address this lack. An instructor with this certification has passed basic riding safety and ability requirements. Its no guarantee that the instructor is what you might need, and not having this certifications doesn’t at all mean that an instructor is poor. But it is out there, and if one is looking for general riding it can be a start.

The US equestrian governing bodies have instructor certification/training programs for instructors. USDF is the United States Dressage Federation. Competitions sanctioned by USDF are ‘rated’, and they run a judges clinic and an instructors clinic program. Again, not having these certifications in no way means a trainer is not a good trainer. Look at Sally Swift! But still, it can at least mean that the person takes their craft seriously enough to go through the programs. The FEI is the international competition governing body. AFAIK they do not have a trainer rating system. The USHJA, the United States Hunter Jumper association, also has an instructor certification program. It requires that a trainer has taken students to a certain level and shows both riding and training proficiency. The USEA, the United States Eventing Association I think also has an instructor certification/proficiency system. Centered Riding has a certification program as well. Again, NOT having these does not mean the trainer is not good. But they all offer past scores, records, levels of proficiency, etc, and can be a place to start.

The organizations are also an easy way to check someone’s bona fides. USDF has scores archived from way back. There used to be a program called Centerline Scores that listed scores of both single and triple rated dressage shows (a single rated show is one recognized by a GMO, a General Membership Organization, like a state or local area organization and gives local year end awards; a triple rated show is sanctioned by USEF, USDF, and the local GMO). Centerline Scores has closed its page so you have to go to the local GMOs to find those scores. But USDF and USEF (the United States Equestrian Federation, which is our national governing body for ALL equestrian competitions/disciplines) have archived scores from way back in the AHSA (the previous National Governing body that became the USEF). Some of them you have to be a member to look up scores but not all. Most have a low level membership and it might be worth paying it to be able to look people up.

But again, not having these certifications or archived points does not mean the person is not a good trainer!
You can also use the internet to contact people used as references. For example, if I said I had worked closely with so and so, you can usually actually now contact so and so and ask if I had actually done that. The horse world can be quite small, and the good ones in it try to watch out for people.

What these governing body sites can be good for is checking someones record though. For example, if someone says that they showed at a certain show, you can look it up and see if that is actually true. Every competitor who has ever been a member of the organizations and has shown at the sanctioned competitions has a member number. For instance, lets look up Wills USDF number. 31189. You can see his scores and the locations he competed at. Which means that you can tell that though he did indeed get a USDF Silver Medal, he never competed on the ‘prestigious Florida Dressage circuit’. He showed in one triple rated show in Tampa. Centerline scores showed some single rated Florida shows. He also states the horse was set to be euthanized, but if you look up the horse Dexter’s USDF number 18725 you can see he had a pretty solid career with his amateur owned Nancy Tuchel. If you look Will up on the USEF site, 167195, there are no results. Will claims that he was one of the top eventing trainers in the US. There should be some record of this eventing career, but maybe it was too long ago. You can look Karen up too. Her USDF number is 106830 and her USEF number is 308872. She also got a Silver Medal on Perhaps. Will claims that Perhaps was green and that they brought her to FEI. But the old Centerline Scores showed Perhaps being shown pretty well at 4th level, so she was hardly green when they got her. Both Will and Karens scores are pretty poor actually. But be that as it may, they did get their Silvers. You can also look up Contigo, 4019369 and see that he actually had a nice career as a jumper and that he had been at the top of his stallion testing. You will notice a trend with Will and Karen..every horse was wrecked until they got it and ‘saved’ it with their great method. Why do they lie? Why does Will say he ‘shwed on the prestigious Florida circuit’ when it is so easy to check? Who knows.

Will claims to have studied extensively with Nuno. But no one in Nunos family or circle, like Bettina Drummond, or Goncarlo, or Joao have any recollection of Will. At all. Additionally, there is not one writing, one video, one article, of Nuno espousing or riding with his horses noses in the dirt. Not one. They all show the exact opposite. There are one or two photos of a horse in a super low stretch.
Nicole posed an excellent question regarding the long term effects of extended low stretching. It is harmful! She is right to question. And you all who questioned the admins are right to do so.

Some of you may remember a few weeks ago I posted photos of my new horse. His body is quite damaged. I posted the photos and several members commented on his musculature. I confess that I am postiing under an alter and this horse is not a saddlebred. It is a horse you all know well, the poster child for Art2Ride. It is Legolas. 7 years of being dumped on the forehand on the circle has destroyed his body. Amber put him up for sale over a year ago. No takers. She dumped him in a field in northern San Diego county. Friends of friends contacted her and bought him out of pity, lame and thin. They did what they could for him and then sent him to a rehab facility. He may or may have a future. Will said he was pretty broken at the third vertebrae when they got him. I have seen video of Lego right before his sale to Amber. I have seen his perfect PPE when she bought him. I have also seen the xrays Amber took after a couple of years of art2ride and I have seen the MRI she had done in 2019. He is destroyed. He is 13 years old. He spent 7 years of his life solely in art2ride, the work that supposedly keeps horses sound.

Art2 ride is a sham. Stretching is good! Yes, we should stretch our horses! Yes, hyperflexion is so bad, so harmful, and the FEI has been slow to take real steps to deal with the problem. But art2ride is NOT the answer. I feel so sorry for you asst trainers. Yes, horses will benefit from stretching! But neck extensions as part of an overall training/fitness program is one thing, endless circles with noses IN THE DIRT is another.

There are so many good researchers out there. Hillary Clayton, Manolo Mendea, the Racinet books, the Phillippe Karl Legerete methods, Kerry Ridgway, man, you guys have coomputers! USE THEM. Study the excellent sites out there. Stretch your horses! But do not cripple them with endless nose in the dirt circles seeking some holy grail of topline magic.

We wont even talk about Wills movie career or their personal lives. But if anyone wants to watch a movie about tampon sucking vampires Will is your man.

Candy Wilson is an alter. I am sure this post will be promptly banned and I will be blocked. I am on messenger and any one who wants to see more photos of Lego and his early vet records etc can message me.
Will has often said ‘pictures don’t lie’. They don’t. But Will and Karen do, "

Ryeissa
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:23 pm

yeah, its good people are being made aware of this....however, its amazing how many people still think A2R is a good idea.

Lipsmackerpony88
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1354
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:17 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:48 pm

I honestly think the riding on the website is to troll us!

User avatar
StraightForward
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 3103
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Idaho

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby StraightForward » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:44 pm

Last winter a ~20 year old German woman spent a couple months shadowing my horse bodyworker. She mentioned that prior to coming to Idaho, she had spent some time training with Will because she wanted to learn dressage, and did I know anything about him. I think I muttered something about how it's not who I would choose, and surely she could find better instruction in Germany. In hindsight I should have been more emphatic, but I was honestly kind of speechless thinking she had spent a month there and wasn't sure one way or another if training with him was a good way to start. I hope she found a better path!
Keep calm and canter on.

Hayburner
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1132
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 12:48 am
Location: Western PA

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Hayburner » Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:42 am

Thank you Abby for sharing this with us.

I have watched a few of his you tube videos and seen some comments about his training methods.

A friend went to a clinic and came back thinking Will walked on water. A trainer I know watched a few videos and made the comment, this guy is a quack :lol:

Yet, like other trainers and methods we question, there is another follower who thinks they walk on water.

Ryeissa
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Ryeissa » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:30 pm

Hayburner wrote:Thank you Abby for sharing this with us.

I have watched a few of his you tube videos and seen some comments about his training methods.

A friend went to a clinic and came back thinking Will walked on water. A trainer I know watched a few videos and made the comment, this guy is a quack :lol:

Yet, like other trainers and methods we question, there is another follower who thinks they walk on water.


My opinion, having never met the guy in person, is there is an immense appeal of seeing the horses stretching. It looks nicer to the eye vs some aspects of dressage on connection- at times not pretty. People gravitate towards that but there is a point its not a system- there is no link here to connection.
However, for the beginner ammy its nice to have a relaxed horse that stretches down, even though it's not really on contact or going to have a half halt. Those of us who have a strong background in dressage see the holes, but even I was a bit sucked in at first till I really thought about it.

There is a place for this work in context of rehab or abuse, but it's really all talk no substance. There is nothing this program offers that can't be found in a good regular program- they just really really cater to a certain look and clients. Nice marketing, have to give them that.

Lipsmackerpony88
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1354
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:17 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:30 pm

Ryeissa, I totally agree. It sounds good at first, especially for a beginner. BTV=bad Stretching=good. Of course we know there's a lot more to Dressage than that but I can see certain people getting sucked in. It's not so black and white!

There are definitely other "programs" out there that have good market and maybe even some good pieces but aren't complete or correct. Especially in this day and age of social media I think marketing is a huge thing.

I don't understand why the riding is SO bad though with the Art2ride. Why do they have to lean back so much have such busy harsh and wide hands? That more than anything just turns me away, although I see the holes in the whole thing.

Ryeissa
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:44 pm

Lipsmackerpony88 wrote:Ryeissa, I totally agree. It sounds good at first, especially for a beginner. BTV=bad Stretching=good. Of course we know there's a lot more to Dressage than that but I can see certain people getting sucked in. It's not so black and white!

There are definitely other "programs" out there that have good market and maybe even some good pieces but aren't complete or correct. Especially in this day and age of social media I think marketing is a huge thing.

I don't understand why the riding is SO bad though with the Art2ride. Why do they have to lean back so much have such busy harsh and wide hands? That more than anything just turns me away, although I see the holes in the whole thing.


yeah, shakes head.

Abby Kogler
Herd Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Abby Kogler » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:41 pm

Its so cult like, and yes, it appeals to those who see the problems with hyperflexion and think that Will is the answer.

I live near him and had the misfortune to have to be in the same facility for over a year. Horses came in, horses left. They were so loud, and so ignorant, and so obnoxious, and such liars. I caught them in so many lies, and hence I became 'the enemy'. The barn owners were wonderful and told hiim to get off my case. His poor clients would try to talk to me about their now lame horses and he would accuse me of trying to steal his clients. He so sexually harassed my daughters and teen age girl students that they wouldnt even walk down his barn aisle to get to our area. Things like "if you were a porn star, what would your name be?" to 13 and 14 yr olds. "you look so sexy today in those breeches!" We were all invited to the premier of his movie Clothing Optional, You can rent it and see some reviews on Amazon.

People have the right to be pigs. If he wants to be an aging creeper he has every right to be so. But they dont have the right to lie about their bona fides, mislead people, and harm horses. After I left the barn and bought my own little place, I would hear about him being kicked out of yet another facility, or the 911 calls that went on cause his people would fall off and get hurt, or the horses being retired...but he was pretty much out of sight out of mind. But when I saw Legolas, the poster child of the 'method' that keeps horses sound! and how wrecked, how truly and genuinely and deeply wrecked he is, his front feet destroyed and his musculature bizarre and damaged by having to figure out a way to carry himself and Amber while not going rotational, I was just so angry. That lovely horse, kind, bred to do great things, absolutely shattered. He was only 12! He spent SEVEN YEARS in that program! As usual, they blame farriery (I thought Will was a Master Horseman?! who made videos about good shoeing practices?!) Its hard to wreck front feet as badly as his are wrecked. It takes a long time and serious iincorrect work to turn a gorgeous well bred Oldenburg in to a lame bizarre compliation of parts. When he got off the trailer we just stood there in shock. He looked like a lame tennesswe walker/ saddlebred cross. A freak of nature.

The constant behind the motion riding, the endless banging the horses in the mouth, now wonder they "stretch" its the only way to stop the bonking. The endless lies and obfuscations and bastardization of sound principles OMg and the poor a2riders nod and praise and ooh and ah. Go join the fans and followers fb page if you want some amused horror. The lies and stories continue. Anyone want to bet on how long before that pretty mare Q is dropped off the radar? Shes already struggling.

The people who rescued him did so much for him and if he has a chance its due to their intervention. Hes at a facility now and gets PEMF, Vitafloor, myofascial, laser, etc etc and lots of turnout. Hes barefoot. So far he is doing well. His musculature is changing and he looks less freakish.

If anyone wants to see his MRI and his before photos pm me. They will break your heart.

Speak up when you can. In an industry full of charlatans this guy is exceptionally harmful to horses.

Lipsmackerpony88
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1354
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:17 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:00 pm

Abby K, I've heard someone similar from others.

User avatar
Boudicea
Novice
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:45 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Boudicea » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:06 am

I had not heard of any of this so checked out some videos. Puke. How could anyone watch this for more than 2 seconds and think it was a good way to ride a horse? As equally unappealing to me as hyperflexion.

Abby Kogler
Herd Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Abby Kogler » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:12 pm

Boudicea wrote:I had not heard of any of this so checked out some videos. Puke. How could anyone watch this for more than 2 seconds and think it was a good way to ride a horse? As equally unappealing to me as hyperflexion.


Youd be amazed, sadly.

If you want some horrified amusement, check out the fb page. Will waxes eloquent on other trainers, veterinarians, etc, "gimmicks" (as he cranks his flashes and grabs the chambon) soundness (as horses fall by the wayside). patience (except when loadiing a young scared horse, may Manni rest in peace) and various skills. People post before and after photos and its hard to tell which is which.

The a2r path is littered with injured horses and riders.

Ryeissa
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Ryeissa » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:24 pm

Some of the videos I saw (not sure what ones you are looking at) do show nice- enough riding. (I'm talking maybe 7 yrs ago?) Then you notice the heads are just down and not INTO the contact. Again, don't miss the appeal of a slick marketing campaign.

The suggestion that dressage theory is not good enough as it is, and is full of RK is a way of selling "the disease and the cure". if there is a new rider they might not appreciate that there is nothing wrong with the actual dressage theory as it was presented.

Selling the curse and the cure...."Align with us, we are the good guys". Bleh

Lipsmackerpony88
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1354
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:17 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:08 pm

https://youtu.be/bZgbcoWGVvc
It's the hands that get me, broken wrist, puppy dog hands, high and SO busy.

Will is even worse, I've seen videos of him leaning WAY back and his elbows behind his body, see sawing. Which is funny because although the posture and action is different, that's so similar to the position of someone doing some nasty rolkur. It's just where they are putting the horse that's different.

Lipsmackerpony88
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1354
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:17 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:09 pm

I normally would not share a video and critique someone I don't know so publicly. But it's more that it's a common theme with the Art2ride, many ride that way.

Ryeissa
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Ryeissa » Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:21 pm

Lipsmackerpony88 wrote:https://youtu.be/bZgbcoWGVvc
It's the hands that get me, broken wrist, puppy dog hands, high and SO busy.

Will is even worse, I've seen videos of him leaning WAY back and his elbows behind his body, see sawing. Which is funny because although the posture and action is different, that's so similar to the position of someone doing some nasty rolkur. It's just where they are putting the horse that's different.


yeah, that's really worse than the videos that were on his website at one point....here is a screen shot- that is not contact in any way. the hand is so out to the side- very weird.

I feel ok commenting as he published this and shared freely to promote his "new dressage organization".
Attachments
Screenshot 2021-04-23 1.14.55 PM.png
Screenshot 2021-04-23 1.14.55 PM.png (65.11 KiB) Viewed 17651 times

Lipsmackerpony88
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1354
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:17 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:05 pm

Ryeissa it reminds me of western pleasure riders (I say that as someone who rode WP long ago.) Or Hunter under saddle.

So basically everything I was taught to not do once I started riding dressage. Will has them more forward but no difference in the riding style from what I remember. (Early 2000's.)

User avatar
Boudicea
Novice
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:45 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Boudicea » Sat Apr 24, 2021 12:04 pm

It's just so repulsive to me to place a horse's head and more importantly balance in such an unatural position whether you're on contact or not. The horse is dumped down on the forehand and all the energy is going into the dirt. The antithesis of dressage. No different than rolkur.

Ryeissa
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:59 pm

Boudicea wrote:It's just so repulsive to me to place a horse's head and more importantly balance in such an unatural position whether you're on contact or not. The horse is dumped down on the forehand and all the energy is going into the dirt. The antithesis of dressage. No different than rolkur.


It's less damaging on the skeletal system than RK, but not going to teach them much.

Ryeissa
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:00 pm

Lipsmackerpony88 wrote:Ryeissa it reminds me of western pleasure riders (I say that as someone who rode WP long ago.) Or Hunter under saddle.

So basically everything I was taught to not do once I started riding dressage. Will has them more forward but no difference in the riding style from what I remember. (Early 2000's.)


WP horses are on the aids (in that style of contact)- these horses are not.

User avatar
Boudicea
Novice
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:45 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Boudicea » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:15 pm

Ryeissa wrote:
Boudicea wrote:It's just so repulsive to me to place a horse's head and more importantly balance in such an unatural position whether you're on contact or not. The horse is dumped down on the forehand and all the energy is going into the dirt. The antithesis of dressage. No different than rolkur.


It's less damaging on the skeletal system than RK, but not going to teach them much.


I would argue otherwise. The weight on the front legs alone is problematic. I doubt a horse trained in this fashion is going to stay sound long term.

Abby Kogler
Herd Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Abby Kogler » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:34 pm

Boudicea wrote:
Ryeissa wrote:
Boudicea wrote:It's just so repulsive to me to place a horse's head and more importantly balance in such an unatural position whether you're on contact or not. The horse is dumped down on the forehand and all the energy is going into the dirt. The antithesis of dressage. No different than rolkur.


It's less damaging on the skeletal system than RK, but not going to teach them much.


I would argue otherwise. The weight on the front legs alone is problematic. I doubt a horse trained in this fashion is going to stay sound long term.


They dont stay sound. They all seem to get front end problems and then are discarded, sold, retired...Legolas is just one of many. Their latest victim is a pretty mare, Q, that I guess they got as a three yr old? she was barefoot, now in shoes and bell boots...in a flash cause she gets her tongue over the bit...was supposedly broken at the third vert (their go to blame) but hard to believe she was so wrecked at three...she is 5/6 now, doesnt move as well as she did...but gee whiz, after 2 years of a2r work she can actually WTC in LDR and BTV.

God help them all.

Lipsmackerpony88
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1354
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:17 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:49 pm

Ryeissa wrote:
Lipsmackerpony88 wrote:Ryeissa it reminds me of western pleasure riders (I say that as someone who rode WP long ago.) Or Hunter under saddle.

So basically everything I was taught to not do once I started riding dressage. Will has them more forward but no difference in the riding style from what I remember. (Early 2000's.)


WP horses are on the aids (in that style of contact)- these horses are not.


I rode during the time WP was in a pretty bad place. I think it's better now but it was a lot of draw reins, big spurs, hands behind the back see sawing. I remember walking into a big training barn to try a horse. There was a horse tied with it's head high up, tied to a rafter. My trainer steered us immediately out of there.

Anyways it just reminds me a bit of this. At least in how they use their hands.

I wonder does Will actually believe in this crap or is it just the good marketing/propaganda that he can't let go?

Ryeissa
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:16 pm

Boudicea wrote:
Ryeissa wrote:
Boudicea wrote:It's just so repulsive to me to place a horse's head and more importantly balance in such an unatural position whether you're on contact or not. The horse is dumped down on the forehand and all the energy is going into the dirt. The antithesis of dressage. No different than rolkur.


It's less damaging on the skeletal system than RK, but not going to teach them much.


I would argue otherwise. The weight on the front legs alone is problematic. I doubt a horse trained in this fashion is going to stay sound long term.


Sure, it's not helpful but not in the same league as RK. Still let's just all ride properly and not worry about it,

Ryeissa
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Ryeissa » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:17 pm

Lipsmackerpony88 wrote:
Ryeissa wrote:
Lipsmackerpony88 wrote:Ryeissa it reminds me of western pleasure riders (I say that as someone who rode WP long ago.) Or Hunter under saddle.

So basically everything I was taught to not do once I started riding dressage. Will has them more forward but no difference in the riding style from what I remember. (Early 2000's.)


WP horses are on the aids (in that style of contact)- these horses are not.


I rode during the time WP was in a pretty bad place. I think it's better now but it was a lot of draw reins, big spurs, hands behind the back see sawing. I remember walking into a big training barn to try a horse. There was a horse tied with it's head high up, tied to a rafter. My trainer steered us immediately out of there.

Anyways it just reminds me a bit of this. At least in how they use their hands.

I wonder does Will actually believe in this crap or is it just the good marketing/propaganda that he can't let go?


Oh yes! I see what you mean. I don't get the LOOOOONG reins then lifting them up so high.
I also don't know Will so I can't comment. I think he is a master of marketing.

User avatar
Boudicea
Novice
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:45 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Boudicea » Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:50 pm

Well at least for me if I see someone riding this way I will think the same things about them that I think of people riding in hyperflexion. It's abusive.

Abby Kogler
Herd Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Abby Kogler » Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:02 pm

Ryeissa wrote:
Boudicea wrote:
Ryeissa wrote:
It's less damaging on the skeletal system than RK, but not going to teach them much.


I would argue otherwise. The weight on the front legs alone is problematic. I doubt a horse trained in this fashion is going to stay sound long term.


Sure, it's not helpful but not in the same league as RK. Still let's just all ride properly and not worry about it,


They both break horses. And personally, I think more horses can recover from an RK life than a Will life. Wllls horses all have front end problems. Of course its always the farriers fault, but his followers also get front end lameness. You just cant ride a horse this way without wrecking their front ends. Subluxation, tendon and ligament tears, ringbone, navicular damage...those are hard if not impossible to fix. I get the RK wrecks necks and backs etc but IME as soon as the work is stopped and with therapies the horse can have a good chance at a pretty normal llife. That cant happen if their front feet are destroyed.

And I do and will worry about it. I cant help it. I think its just beyond bad to put out there a made up method that harms horses and misleads well meaning owners. Maybe cause hes in my area, maybe cause I know him and had to share a barn aisle with him, cause I caught him a zillion lies, cause I saw Manni struggle and then be put down and heard all the excuses...and cause I know what happened to his Legolas.

And I dont know if he actually believes in the work or not. If I was following a method that resulted in every horse breakiing down, I would stop. He keeps going. Its his schtick. He told me when I first met him he was only doing the horse stuff until his movies took off. Guess that didnt quite work out, gee.

This pretty mare will just be another one, and he'll have lots of blame...her breeding, the farrier, blah blah blah. He cant blame the footing (its his own barn) or the trimming (since Karen was trimming) but it will be something.

Its all just sad.

User avatar
Flight
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1811
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 11:39 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Flight » Sun Apr 25, 2021 12:44 am

What frustrates me about the horse riding industry, is that people can create such bullshit and say they learned from classical masters, or in europe or whatever and until you've been around and learned enough yourself, you can get taken for such a ride.
But when you are starting out it's so hard to know the correct stuff from the crap.

Lipsmackerpony88
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1354
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:17 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Lipsmackerpony88 » Sun Apr 25, 2021 2:30 am

Flight wrote:What frustrates me about the horse riding industry, is that people can create such bullshit and say they learned from classical masters, or in europe or whatever and until you've been around and learned enough yourself, you can get taken for such a ride.
But when you are starting out it's so hard to know the correct stuff from the crap.

Totally. I always try to speak out about this stuff and try to recommend better paths. It easy for newcomers to get taken. It sounds great on paper.

Ryeissa
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 2349
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:41 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Ryeissa » Mon Apr 26, 2021 10:18 pm

Abby Kogler wrote:
Ryeissa wrote:
Boudicea wrote:
I would argue otherwise. The weight on the front legs alone is problematic. I doubt a horse trained in this fashion is going to stay sound long term.


Sure, it's not helpful but not in the same league as RK. Still let's just all ride properly and not worry about it,


They both break horses. And personally, I think more horses can recover from an RK life than a Will life. Wllls horses all have front end problems. Of course its always the farriers fault, but his followers also get front end lameness. You just cant ride a horse this way without wrecking their front ends. Subluxation, tendon and ligament tears, ringbone, navicular damage...those are hard if not impossible to fix. I get the RK wrecks necks and backs etc but IME as soon as the work is stopped and with therapies the horse can have a good chance at a pretty normal llife. That cant happen if their front feet are destroyed.

And I do and will worry about it. I cant help it. I think its just beyond bad to put out there a made up method that harms horses and misleads well meaning owners. Maybe cause hes in my area, maybe cause I know him and had to share a barn aisle with him, cause I caught him a zillion lies, cause I saw Manni struggle and then be put down and heard all the excuses...and cause I know what happened to his Legolas.

And I dont know if he actually believes in the work or not. If I was following a method that resulted in every horse breakiing down, I would stop. He keeps going. Its his schtick. He told me when I first met him he was only doing the horse stuff until his movies took off. Guess that didnt quite work out, gee.

This pretty mare will just be another one, and he'll have lots of blame...her breeding, the farrier, blah blah blah. He cant blame the footing (its his own barn) or the trimming (since Karen was trimming) but it will be something.

Its all just sad.


I don't know Will personally, so that will prevent me from knowing these details. I just stick to what I can influence and speak out online. I have been to several sites and left comments about Will so I can spread the word. Its amazing how many people wanted to disagree with me....oh no, he's GOOD.
Sure

Abby Kogler
Herd Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Abby Kogler » Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:56 pm

Rye, thats all we can do. Thanks.

Christen252
Greenie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Christen252 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:16 pm

If he's so good at marketing, why does he post training videos online for free? Why does he respond to YouTube and Facebook comments on training for free? I think his clinic fees were completely reasonable. So what exactly does his marketing target to scam people? Helping people with his version of training? This (as well as your opinion) is subjective, but my opinion gaining his knowledge in rehabbing my gelding with kissing spine, his way of training has greatly improved my horse's quality of life, stride and carriage.
Anyone looking into Will's training can see the difference in how theses horses are ridden vs many dressage riders. If you are interested, please research his way of riding yourself.

Pat
Greenie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:27 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Pat » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:44 pm

I have been to 2 of Will F clinics - one as an observer and one as a person being taught by him. In everything I have observed and he has said to me I found Will respectful of both the horse and the rider. To me he encouraged me despite being a fairly new rider and after the lessons my horse was more relaxed and soft over the neck and back. When my horse gets tired she would do the nice low stretch and be good to go again. If you knew him personally you would see his knowledgeable guidance of both horse and rider to enjoy their horses into old age (for both of us haha). His heart is to offer the riding community as much as he can to save our horses and have them enjoy their work. I think he is great and would invite anyone to take lessons with him. You can even do it with technology that allows you to ride at home while he teaches you. Will is GREAT!!!!

heddylamar
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1405
Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:04 pm
Location: Texas (o_O)

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby heddylamar » Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:51 pm

Christen252 wrote:Anyone looking into Will's training can see the difference in how theses horses are ridden vs many dressage riders. If you are interested, please research his way of riding yourself.

Pat wrote:Will is GREAT!!!!

Such stellar testimony /s
This might be believable if you both hadn't registered today and these weren't your first posts :roll:

sdjhorsetraining
Greenie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:50 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby sdjhorsetraining » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:11 pm

Abby Kogler wrote:
Ryeissa wrote:
Boudicea wrote:
I would argue otherwise. The weight on the front legs alone is problematic. I doubt a horse trained in this fashion is going to stay sound long term.


Sure, it's not helpful but not in the same league as RK. Still let's just all ride properly and not worry about it,


They both break horses. And personally, I think more horses can recover from an RK life than a Will life. Wllls horses all have front end problems. Of course its always the farriers fault, but his followers also get front end lameness. You just cant ride a horse this way without wrecking their front ends. Subluxation, tendon and ligament tears, ringbone, navicular damage...those are hard if not impossible to fix. I get the RK wrecks necks and backs etc but IME as soon as the work is stopped and with therapies the horse can have a good chance at a pretty normal llife. That cant happen if their front feet are destroyed.

And I do and will worry about it. I cant help it. I think its just beyond bad to put out there a made up method that harms horses and misleads well meaning owners. Maybe cause hes in my area, maybe cause I know him and had to share a barn aisle with him, cause I caught him a zillion lies, cause I saw Manni struggle and then be put down and heard all the excuses...and cause I know what happened to his Legolas.

And I dont know if he actually believes in the work or not. If I was following a method that resulted in every horse breakiing down, I would stop. He keeps going. Its his schtick. He told me when I first met him he was only doing the horse stuff until his movies took off. Guess that didnt quite work out, gee.

This pretty mare will just be another one, and he'll have lots of blame...her breeding, the farrier, blah blah blah. He cant blame the footing (its his own barn) or the trimming (since Karen was trimming) but it will be something.

Its all just sad.



What I find scary about people saying things like these, is how little they have actually worked a horse this way before they drew a conclusion like this. The fact that you are incapable to get your horse over it's back and help them relax does not mean that it's impossible or what Art2ride does is wrong. You just never felt something that is right.

And this is why the followers that are so enthousiastic are devoted to the art2ride way of training. Because they have felt and experienced the profound difference between tense and relaxed in a way that you in no other way would ever experience. So the fact that you are writing things as above says so much more about how you lack in skills and knowledge about horsemanship and training. You chose the easy way to burn the person who repeatedly succesfully works horses this way to the ground. Shame on you!

So let me give you a piece of my cake.

- I bought a horse so completely damaged, that it was either slaughter or trying to help her because even her being a lawnmower was not going to give her a worthly life
- Through one of the former associates I came across art2ride
- I have been practicing art2ride for the last 8 years and rehabbed or oversaw the rehab of over a 100(!!!) horses succesfully. Using the art2ride method. Horses that were unrideble, untrainable, irreversibly damaged and so on.
- Art2ride saved my mares life. This is a fact, because there is no trainer in the near 5000kms that would have taught me the same as art2ride has done.
- If it's all so damaging, how come my mare is the best now that she has ever been after being a complete wreck?
- I attended multiple clinics with Will and for all these days he is present, he is willing, you can ask him everything you want and he will try to answer them to his best.
- I have been an Associate trainer for the last 4 years. I can call him, I can write him, he makes himself available to help me grow so I can help others. How is this a scam to make money? Because he asks a fair rate for his 40+ years of knowledge and experience when he flies all over the world for clinics? How insecure are you woman?

And no, I am not some brainwashed groupie since my teaching and training goes further than just Art2ride. But Art2ride has proven me over and over and over again to do the job that needs to be done.

And above all, it taught me patience and a lot of resilience from parasites like you.

If you know it all só much better :
- Create your own program
- Create your own youtube channel
- Create your own site
- Create your own group

And teach there what seems right to you. But stop bashing someone else for having what you can only dream off. As you know, we don't tolerate that in our group (which makes it why people like the group so much!) we don't have to tolerate that outside the group either!

Fursan79
Greenie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:06 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Fursan79 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:15 pm

This thread is unbelievably unkind towards Will Faerber. Will has truly helped my ageing horse, who had been badly trained with roll-kur type riding, and it took me 2 years just to undo the bad posture through ground work. Will and his team on the Art2Ride site helped me go through the process step by step and taught me to be so patient with my horse. My horse also had physiotherapies done by students of Hilary Clayton and they never found anything wrong with what I was doing with Art2Ride methods. I am sorry Will is being put through this unfair ordeal.

Abby Kogler
Herd Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Abby Kogler » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:45 pm

Our Will has found me out ha! I will be sued, when enough people donate to his legal fees.

To his supporters:

Nothiing I posted is false. You can look up his competition numbers yourself. He says he showed on the 'prestigious Florida circuit" But he didnt. He says he worked with Michel Henriquet, but Michels wife has SAYS THIS IS NOT TRUE and has asked him to remove references to her husband on his videos. Nunos long time student Bettina Drummond has NO RECOLLECTION of Will. Will said he played Music at Nunos funeral. The makers of that famous 'stretch your horse's back' have publicly stated they REGRET THEIR ASSOCIATIOJN with him. He has been asked to leave every barn he was in in San Diego area. This is all TRUE. He can sue me all he wants, but every word I say is TRUE.

Stretching is good. I have always supported stretching. I know that stretching and WIH can be hugely benefgicial to horses. But Will methods, taken to his extreme, are INCORRECT. Where are all the horses he had in his care through the years? Remember the poster child Legolas? I have that horse now, he was given to me by a saviour who found him lame and wrecked and virtually abandoned. Will blames his feet, or that he is a big horse. No. That horse was 7 years iin a program that supposedly KEEPs HORSES SOUND. Can any of yoou watching the 'progress' of the two horses in his care now and say they are IMPROVING?! And there is always soome excuse. Oh, Q is long backed. Oj, Lip was in a pasture so he bites. And so those horses are in flashes and are behiind the verticle. And I wonder how !'s breeder, Diana Murphy, would feel heariing Will accuse her of wrecking Q before they boought her. I know that Sara who broke and raised Lego did NOT wreck that horse. Amber bought him with perfect xrays and PPE. And within a couple of years of endless lunging in the 'stretch' he now has subluxaqion and is terribly damaged. And so what, they blame the farrier? I thought Will was a Master Horseman. He made videos about proper shoeing? So what the hell is it?! Is he a Master Horse (and who the hell gives that designation anyway?!) or isnt he?

He is a confabulator. He says his photos of his 'extenisve' study at Nunos were lost in a fire, or a storm, God knows. If you read his bio and his music bio, he apparantly was in two or three places at a time. Funny, that.

I saw him every day for almost two years. I know every barn he was asked to leave. He is so disliked in this area.

Anyone can come meet me. Come see Legolas and see how misshapen his body still is. Watch the last almost three years of Q videos and let us all know how well she is 'progressing'. I did make an alter and I did contact Tytti and Katherine. They were very nice. I did not hound them, we had pleasant chats about the situation. I outed myself to Tytti and removed myself from the group.

I did contact the mother of a teenage student that Will started workiing with. He was inappropriate with my students and daughters when we were in the same barn. He talked to them about what they would like to be called is they were porn stars. He made a ridiculous movie with sexual content content. He asked them to come to his house and play Twister. He and Karen were both very sexual and no one liked it. He was loud, he was obnoxious, his horses were never turned out. I saw client after client come in and leave after a few weeks. He did act in a movie about a tampon sucking vampire. His temper did result in the death of a nice young horse, Manni.

I had put Will out of my mind. But when Legolas, that beautiful horse, was put in my lap I was just so angry. I made an alter to get iin to his fb group to see if anyone ever mentioned Lego. There I watched that lovely mare Q struggle along, and heard all of the excuses for her issues. And the gelding! Who supposedly bites and is so dangerous...siince when is a flash?! the antidote for a biter? Maybe he bites because he is stressed and unhappy?

The people who follow him in the internet love their horses and are trying to do right by them. I get that. The moderators on the fb are really lovely people. It seems like most of the followers are novice horse people who do not have access to good information. I see their happy posts and its a nice and supportive group. But those of us who have seen Will iin person for lengths of time, who are not novice horse people. who see the problems with many current training practices but who know that Wills 'method' is strucurally and biomechanically incorrect, should ALWAYS speak out against work that harms horses. And neither Nuno, nor Henriquet, nor Hillary Clayton, nor Manolo Mendez, not Phillipe Karl, nor deKunffy, NO ONE espouses what Will says is the holy grail of 'lifting the back'.

All you followers, just dont swallow that a2r is the Only Way. Keep stretching your horses. But keep studying. And notice that when you ask Will anything, he will always blame someone else, something else, and he will always attack anyone who calls him out on his fabrications.

Sjwtkd
Greenie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:39 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Sjwtkd » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:46 pm

I’m always suspicious when someone clearly has an ax to grind, especially when so many details of their story do not align, or is missing key pieces of information that serves to skew a narrative. In short, your attack seems revenge driven, and not coming from a well-meaning person with legitimate concerns.
Having watched dozens of Wills videos dozens of times, I struggle to see the point you are trying to make. I have yet to see a horse that is not completely relaxed and happy in the work; something that can’t be said for many other methods. I’ve yet to see a horse even worried!, and the commentary throughout the sessions is interesting as hell.
In short, this man has nothing to hide. And why would he? Will is clearly a person who is open in his methods and generous enough to share them with whomever wants to learn. This type of training would cost thousands yet he gives it away! How on earth is that nefarious? I’ve now got a solid grasp of how to bring a horse comfortably through their stages of development in a progressive and kind manner. That knowledge is priceless. Our first show in over 20 years includes this lovely comment from the judge: “how lovely to see a horse working over its back, relaxed”. I keep that score card next to my blue ribbon. This was all done 100% through Art2Ride. In fact some of the same videos you cite as terrible examples helped me win with my relaxed horse who, after three years in this work remains sound and happy.
So help me here. Are you feeling diminished and so need to attack another? Have you not met your life goals? Is he cutting into your profits by offering free assistance? Are you simply bored? I’m genuinely confused. Whatever mean girl angle you are working I suppose is irrelevant. I’m disappointed that you need to pull another down in order to feel superior.
For everyone else who has made it this far. Please, Do your own objective research. Come to your own conclusions and above all, please resist the urge to sit at the mean girl table next to someone with an embarrassingly obvious public axe to grind.

Belladressage
Greenie
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:37 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Belladressage » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:57 pm

sdjhorsetraining wrote:
Abby Kogler wrote:
Ryeissa wrote:
Sure, it's not helpful but not in the same league as RK. Still let's just all ride properly and not worry about it,


They both break horses. And personally, I think more horses can recover from an RK life than a Will life. Wllls horses all have front end problems. Of course its always the farriers fault, but his followers also get front end lameness. You just cant ride a horse this way without wrecking their front ends. Subluxation, tendon and ligament tears, ringbone, navicular damage...those are hard if not impossible to fix. I get the RK wrecks necks and backs etc but IME as soon as the work is stopped and with therapies the horse can have a good chance at a pretty normal llife. That cant happen if their front feet are destroyed.

And I do and will worry about it. I cant help it. I think its just beyond bad to put out there a made up method that harms horses and misleads well meaning owners. Maybe cause hes in my area, maybe cause I know him and had to share a barn aisle with him, cause I caught him a zillion lies, cause I saw Manni struggle and then be put down and heard all the excuses...and cause I know what happened to his Legolas.

And I dont know if he actually believes in the work or not. If I was following a method that resulted in every horse breakiing down, I would stop. He keeps going. Its his schtick. He told me when I first met him he was only doing the horse stuff until his movies took off. Guess that didnt quite work out, gee.

This pretty mare will just be another one, and he'll have lots of blame...her breeding, the farrier, blah blah blah. He cant blame the footing (its his own barn) or the trimming (since Karen was trimming) but it will be something.

Its all just sad.



What I find scary about people saying things like these, is how little they have actually worked a horse this way before they drew a conclusion like this. The fact that you are incapable to get your horse over it's back and help them relax does not mean that it's impossible or what Art2ride does is wrong. You just never felt something that is right.

And this is why the followers that are so enthousiastic are devoted to the art2ride way of training. Because they have felt and experienced the profound difference between tense and relaxed in a way that you in no other way would ever experience. So the fact that you are writing things as above says so much more about how you lack in skills and knowledge about horsemanship and training. You chose the easy way to burn the person who repeatedly succesfully works horses this way to the ground. Shame on you!

So let me give you a piece of my cake.

- I bought a horse so completely damaged, that it was either slaughter or trying to help her because even her being a lawnmower was not going to give her a worthly life
- Through one of the former associates I came across art2ride
- I have been practicing art2ride for the last 8 years and rehabbed or oversaw the rehab of over a 100(!!!) horses succesfully. Using the art2ride method. Horses that were unrideble, untrainable, irreversibly damaged and so on.
- Art2ride saved my mares life. This is a fact, because there is no trainer in the near 5000kms that would have taught me the same as art2ride has done.
- If it's all so damaging, how come my mare is the best now that she has ever been after being a complete wreck?
- I attended multiple clinics with Will and for all these days he is present, he is willing, you can ask him everything you want and he will try to answer them to his best.
- I have been an Associate trainer for the last 4 years. I can call him, I can write him, he makes himself available to help me grow so I can help others. How is this a scam to make money? Because he asks a fair rate for his 40+ years of knowledge and experience when he flies all over the world for clinics? How insecure are you woman?

And no, I am not some brainwashed groupie since my teaching and training goes further than just Art2ride. But Art2ride has proven me over and over and over again to do the job that needs to be done.

And above all, it taught me patience and a lot of resilience from parasites like you.

If you know it all só much better :
- Create your own program
- Create your own youtube channel
- Create your own site
- Create your own group

And teach there what seems right to you. But stop bashing someone else for having what you can only dream off. As you know, we don't tolerate that in our group (which makes it why people like the group so much!) we don't have to tolerate that outside the group either!


So, how about Legolas than? How come a horse that was trained by Will for 7 years end up so badly damaged if this is the only correct way to work a horse?

How about former associate trainer Anne Saari's horse falling on her knees during an art2ride clinic with Will? How about 3 of her horses ending up with front end lameness after a few years of SOLID art2ride training? How about her beeing blocked from the group when she tried to adress these issues? You think thats normal? You think thats an 'open' way of lerning and discussing issues?

You say you're not brainwashed, have you ever asked why Miquel Henriquets wife says he has NEVER been to their place, while he claims Nuno sent him there to train with them?
Have you ever asked why NOBODY KNOWS WILL THAT WAS CLOSE TO NUNO, yet Will claims HE PLAYED AT NUNO'S FUNERAL?
Have you ever asked how a hirse they introduced as a green 3yo when she arrived now 'needs a flash' because she suffered 'bad previous training'? she was a GREEN 3 yo when they got her! Have you EVER askd ANY CRITICAL QUESTIONS? I bet you didnt. If you did you would have been booted just like Anne.

Abby Kogler
Herd Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Abby Kogler » Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:52 pm

[quote="sdjhorsetraining"



"What I find scary about people saying things like these, is how little they have actually worked a horse this way before they drew a conclusion like this. The fact that you are incapable to get your horse over it's back and help them relax does not mean that it's impossible or what Art2ride does is wrong. You just never felt something that is right. ""

Actually, I have >:->

""And this is why the followers that are so enthousiastic are devoted to the art2ride way of training. Because they have felt and experienced the profound difference between tense and relaxed in a way that you in no other way would ever experience. So the fact that you are writing things as above says so much more about how you lack in skills and knowledge about horsemanship and training. You chose the easy way to burn the person who repeatedly succesfully works horses this way to the ground. Shame on you!""

Oh please. Makiing a lot of assumptions, I must say >;->

"So let me give you a piece of my cake.

- I bought a horse so completely damaged, that it was either slaughter or trying to help her because even her being a lawnmower was not going to give her a worthly life
- Through one of the former associates I came across art2ride
- I have been practicing art2ride for the last 8 years and rehabbed or oversaw the rehab of over a 100(!!!) horses succesfully. Using the art2ride method. Horses that were unrideble, untrainable, irreversibly damaged and so on.
- Art2ride saved my mares life. This is a fact, because there is no trainer in the near 5000kms that would have taught me the same as art2ride has done.
- If it's all so damaging, how come my mare is the best now that she has ever been after being a complete wreck?
- I attended multiple clinics with Will and for all these days he is present, he is willing, you can ask him everything you want and he will try to answer them to his best.
- I have been an Associate trainer for the last 4 years. I can call him, I can write him, he makes himself available to help me grow so I can help others. How is this a scam to make money? Because he asks a fair rate for his 40+ years of knowledge and experience when he flies all over the world for clinics? How insecure are you woman?

And no, I am not some brainwashed groupie since my teaching and training goes further than just Art2ride. But Art2ride has proven me over and over and over again to do the job that needs to be done.

And above all, it taught me patience and a lot of resilience from parasites like you.

If you know it all só much better :
- Create your own program
- Create your own youtube channel
- Create your own site
- Create your own group

And teach there what seems right to you. But stop bashing someone else for having what you can only dream off. As you know, we don't tolerate that in our group (which makes it why people like the group so much!) we don't have to tolerate that outside the group either![/quote]

Im sorry, I did laugh out loud at your post.

Its fine. I m glad a2r is workiing for you and your horses.

Just to add, I dont need to create my own program. I never needed to make up a past to try to get peopple to work with me. I dont need to be the worlds answer to rollkur, and I am not a shameless self promoter and dont want to be, Ditto re my own site. I am in a group and am in the Phillippe Karl Legerete teacher trainiing group. I am 65 and have been in training barns my whole life. I too have taken in wrecked horses and fexed them. In fact one of the horses on my fb page, that I am riding in a neck ring, is a horse that Will rode and said was hopelessly wrecked and beyond saviing. Funny how that worked out.

Parasitic? hmmm...a parasite feeds off of a host. Not sure how that applies to me.

Just curious. Are you familiar with the names Ive mentioned? deKunffy? Racinet? Baucher? Manolo Mendez? Dr. Ridgway? Dr Clayton? Gerd Heuschmann? Do you see any of these proven trainers espousing that no work can continue, no SI, No Work, can continue until the horse can maintain its gaits in that deep stretch? Can you name one biomechanical person who supports that?

Im glad it works for you. I really am. But dont come on here like some acolyte of the One True Way and act like *you* have all the answers. Ask questions. Check bona fides. Will lives in San Diego County, which has more horses per capita than almost any county in the US. Why cant he develop relationships with barn owners? Why dont his clients stay with him? Why does Equitopia regret their association with him? Why does his work go utterly against what Nuno, Baucher, and all the others write and demonstrate? Why cant he just be happy saying 'stretch is good!' Why does he have to make up this entire background, which is so easy to check?

Donate to his legal fund if it makes you feel better. Everything I have said about him is true, and he knows it.


Buster.jpeg
Buster.jpeg (34.1 KiB) Viewed 16358 times


A horse that Will said had no future. 24 years old.


George2.jpeg
George2.jpeg (105.45 KiB) Viewed 16358 times


My 23 yr old KWPN gelding first Legerete cliinic


George3.jpeg
George3.jpeg (94.16 KiB) Viewed 16358 times


Second Legerete clinic, six months later.

Abby Kogler
Herd Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Abby Kogler » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:04 pm

Sjwtkd wrote:I’m always suspicious when someone clearly has an ax to grind, especially when so many details of their story do not align, or is missing key pieces of information that serves to skew a narrative. In short, your attack seems revenge driven, and not coming from a well-meaning person with legitimate concerns.
Having watched dozens of Wills videos dozens of times, I struggle to see the point you are trying to make. I have yet to see a horse that is not completely relaxed and happy in the work; something that can’t be said for many other methods. I’ve yet to see a horse even worried!, and the commentary throughout the sessions is interesting as hell.
In short, this man has nothing to hide. And why would he? Will is clearly a person who is open in his methods and generous enough to share them with whomever wants to learn. This type of training would cost thousands yet he gives it away! How on earth is that nefarious? I’ve now got a solid grasp of how to bring a horse comfortably through their stages of development in a progressive and kind manner. That knowledge is priceless. Our first show in over 20 years includes this lovely comment from the judge: “how lovely to see a horse working over its back, relaxed”. I keep that score card next to my blue ribbon. This was all done 100% through Art2Ride. In fact some of the same videos you cite as terrible examples helped me win with my relaxed horse who, after three years in this work remains sound and happy.
So help me here. Are you feeling diminished and so need to attack another? Have you not met your life goals? Is he cutting into your profits by offering free assistance? Are you simply bored? I’m genuinely confused. Whatever mean girl angle you are working I suppose is irrelevant. I’m disappointed that you need to pull another down in order to feel superior.
For everyone else who has made it this far. Please, Do your own objective research. Come to your own conclusions and above all, please resist the urge to sit at the mean girl table next to someone with an embarrassingly obvious public axe to grind.


No axe to grind, and no revenge.

Ive been in the horse world a long time. Liars and charlatans abound. But liars and charlatans that hurt horses need to be called out. I am hardly alone in my dislike of a2rs methods. There are years of threads on the various boards and groups. Ask yourself why. Ask why he cant stay in a facility? Ask him how Manni died? Ask why he trashes any and everyone who has a different approach?

Those of us who live in the area know him well. If he just put himself out there as a trainer with a stretch, no one would bother him. But he has to lie, and lie, and fabricate, and trash others, and while the stretching and in hand work will help horses, the hosres IN HIS PROGRAM who are lunged every day, who are dropped on the forehand for EVER, though he will deny and dismiss and excuse and defend, break. They BREAK. Legolas is not the first, and he wont be the last. Can you honestly watch videos of Q these however many years and say she is BETTER?! Is she the only horse in the world with a long back? The video that introduced her said she was so sound and wonderful and they searched and searched for her. Well gee whiz, after three fecking years she is not so great, is she? And they blame her diet (who does a hair analysis without a CBC?! Why the hell didnt they consult a vet for her if she was lethargic etc? ) and they blame her BREEDER.

What Master Horseman uses a FLASH to keep a horse from biting?! Are you blind? What is the matter with you?

Meh.

I dont spread filth and I dont tell lies, I dont have an axe to grind. I have Legolas, the poster child of the Phabulous Method that Keeps Horses Sound ForEver. Anyone is welcome to come see him and watch his recovery.

And even though its his 'method' and its failures that I think should be exposed, and a persons personal life isnt important to me, but since he accuses me of spreading filth'...here he is in his role as a tampon sucking vampire.

Willvampire.jpeg
Willvampire.jpeg (72.8 KiB) Viewed 16329 times


Maybe this is a guy you want hanging around your teenage daughter but I certainly didnt.
Attachments
Willvampire.jpeg
Willvampire.jpeg (72.8 KiB) Viewed 16330 times
Last edited by Abby Kogler on Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Husbandshorse57
Greenie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:54 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Husbandshorse57 » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:33 pm

Well here we go again. People bashing people. Can you find nothing better to do then complain about people. I have been a witness to many horse trainers who's horses broke down just a few years after being in there training program. There a many of them that have their own training programs. They get bashed as well is there no end to trainer bashing. For people that have nothing better to do with their life than be obsessed with bashing a trainer you are no better than the trainer you are bashing. I have nothing but good things to say about art2ride. I've been doing this program for years and I've never had any issues. As far as the low stretching the horse doesn't stay there forever like you seem to claim. Yes what happened to legolas was sad,but Will had nothing to do with him being stuck in a field and forgotten about. Not all horse can come back from bad injuries that he had BEFORE Amber got him. If you are so hell bent on bashing Will Faerber instead of moving forward and realizing that he has nothing to do with you. Then I pitty you. You can't or won't move forward in your own life. What comes around goes around. Karma will get you.

Abby Kogler
Herd Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Abby Kogler » Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:45 pm

Husbandshorse57 wrote:Well here we go again. People bashing people. Can you find nothing better to do then complain about people. I have been a witness to many horse trainers who's horses broke down just a few years after being in there training program. There a many of them that have their own training programs. They get bashed as well is there no end to trainer bashing. For people that have nothing better to do with their life than be obsessed with bashing a trainer you are no better than the trainer you are bashing. I have nothing but good things to say about art2ride. I've been doing this program for years and I've never had any issues. As far as the low stretching the horse doesn't stay there forever like you seem to claim. Yes what happened to legolas was sad,but Will had nothing to do with him being stuck in a field and forgotten about. Not all horse can come back from bad injuries that he had BEFORE Amber got him. If you are so hell bent on bashing Will Faerber instead of moving forward and realizing that he has nothing to do with you. Then I pitty you. You can't or won't move forward in your own life. What comes around goes around. Karma will get you.


I am not worried about my karma, but thank you.

Amber bought Lego with a PERFECT PPE. I know because Ive seen it. That horse was not broken in the neck, he had perfect foot rads.

Stretching is good. A2r is not.

Save your pity for Q and Lip, they need it, I dont.

Spitfire
Greenie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:17 am

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Spitfire » Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:58 am

Will’s ranty video inspired me to find this board (thanks Will!), and all the alters popping up inspired me to post!

Abby, I would love to see pictures of Legolas now, if you are comfortable to share. I joined the Art group specifically to follow your alter post about Legolas after it was s/sed on to COTH. Sorry, stalkerish I know, but I have been following the saga of WF and A2R for a wee while now.

So happy to have finally found this place. Again, all thanks to WF and his online dummy spit.

Lucy
Greenie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:10 am

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Lucy » Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:32 am

I came here to speak up for Will Faeber, I am across the other side of the world to him so can't claim to have attended his clinics or met him personally. Saying that I can claim that through his YouTube videos I have gathered amazing free knowledge and free training that helped me to rehab a very sore, vet given would never be sound again racehorse a happy and great ridden future. I have been following Will for 10 years or so and accredit him my knowledge and compassion for a healthy, well moving strong horse. Thank you Will, we got your back...

SusyQRidesPluto
Greenie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:56 am

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby SusyQRidesPluto » Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:30 am

I have known Will personally since he rode and trained my horse in 2010. Legolas was ruined horse before Amber took him over. Lots of drama at the barn I get it. I am alone at my own place. I don’t subscribe to all trainers ideas bc ai have over 40 years of my own horse experience. I have ridden with Curtis Sage, Poulin, Sandi Chohaney, Mette Rosencrantz, many others. I ride for fun. Horses a lifestyle. A love. Will’s methods are unique and were effective on my horse. I grew up with classical German dressage something that was not really done much in the USA and classical dressage has gone almost underground. I think this is a personal axe to grind. I have been truly inspired by Will and watching in person for many years his methods 2010/2021. I don’t need to involve myself in any personal matters because I don’t board at barns and haven’t for many years. I never saw much that impressed me when ai boarded at Arroyo Del Mar for 16 years. Oh I was impressed with Andreas Hausberger who has trained the latest Olympic gold winner and her lovely horse Dalera.
Dressage is a passion and I hope the moderators of this group take away slanderous personal grudges and who cares if you don’t like Will? I like him. I have used him. Ps it’s really really hard to make a Lipizzaner stretch. Not like a point and click warmblood that is in fashion. Let’s support each other. Dressage is for harmony. I have seen in person so much harmony in horses Will has worked with.

Happyrider
Greenie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:23 am

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Happyrider » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:10 pm

Vindictive and vicious behavior towards others can be a sign of a mental health issue. Free speech aside, it is uncivil to make accusations for which there is no substantiation. Please refrain from trashing Art2Ride, Will and Karen. If you cannot do that, please put forth your credentials as a trainer so your followers can make an educated choice. Is that too much to ask? Having attended several of Will’s clinics, I can honestly say that I have never been to a clinic where all the horses were moving freely and happily in a working gait with lifted, swinging backs — since his training made them strong enough to do that. Some even starting collection. My horses have benefitted greatly from his training.

blob
Bringing Life to the DDBB
Posts: 1752
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 9:37 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby blob » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:32 pm

Gosh, I'd love to see the video/post that has brought this flock of first timers here.

Abby Kogler
Herd Member
Posts: 405
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2015 2:29 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Abby Kogler » Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:34 pm

SusyQRidesPluto wrote:I have known Will personally since he rode and trained my horse in 2010. Legolas was ruined horse before Amber took him over. Lots of drama at the barn I get it. I am alone at my own place. I don’t subscribe to all trainers ideas bc ai have over 40 years of my own horse experience. I have ridden with Curtis Sage, Poulin, Sandi Chohaney, Mette Rosencrantz, many others. I ride for fun. Horses a lifestyle. A love. Will’s methods are unique and were effective on my horse. I grew up with classical German dressage something that was not really done much in the USA and classical dressage has gone almost underground. I think this is a personal axe to grind. I have been truly inspired by Will and watching in person for many years his methods 2010/2021. I don’t need to involve myself in any personal matters because I don’t board at barns and haven’t for many years. I never saw much that impressed me when ai boarded at Arroyo Del Mar for 16 years. Oh I was impressed with Andreas Hausberger who has trained the latest Olympic gold winner and her lovely horse Dalera.
Dressage is a passion and I hope the moderators of this group take away slanderous personal grudges and who cares if you don’t like Will? I like him. I have used him. Ps it’s really really hard to make a Lipizzaner stretch. Not like a point and click warmblood that is in fashion. Let’s support each other. Dressage is for harmony. I have seen in person so much harmony in horses Will has worked with.



Perhaps you missed the early videos of Amber and Lego at Carolines. Will enthoused how he had found this lovely horse and Amber had been so lucky to buy him. He sure looked sound in those videos. I could send you the PPE that attests to Legos PERFECT health, soundness, and xrays. I could send you the video his Sara made soon before Amber bought him. He was not broken.

This is consistent with Will. Every horse was wrecked before Will fixed him. A horse that does not do well in his program was Wrecked Before He Came. Perhaps was a lunatic, green, until Will saved her, But she had a nice record to fourth level. Contigo was wrecked and had never really been ridden but gee, he had a super score in his stallion testing and a nice career and as jumper. Q was the lovely perfect horse they had searched for and were lucky to find, Will said how easy she will be to train since she was a blank slate, but gee whiz now she was broken! and she has a Long Back! And she 'drops behind the bit!" so she needs that crank. And Lip bites since he lived in a pasture with other horses so is Dangerous! and needs a flash to keep him from biting! WTH is up with that, Master Horseman? Seriously? And though they have perfect footing and Karen is the trimmer fee whiz they are having foot problems and now are in shoes.

Will has put himself out there as Son of Nuno. And that Henriquet had the Answers. But Catherine Henriquest has asked Will to remove all references to her husband from his videos. He says he 'showed on the prestigious Florida Circuit" though there is NO RECORD of it. That always made me laugh regardless, cause I could take my donkey and go to any horse show I wanted...you pay the fees. you show, >;->

I am glad that stretching has helped. Too many trainers just pull and hold and thats no good either.

General responses to some of the above posts:

Will is claiming I 'spread filth" hahahahahaha~ ! hmmm...exposing a liar isnt 'filth"

I didnt sue or press charges. He was inappropriate and annoying, not dangerous. My daughters and students just went the long way around and avoided him. Its not a crime to be sleazy.

He did make a ridiculous soft porn movie, Clothing Optional.

The horse that his temper flipped out of a trailer did die. I watched it struggle, it lived across from my xties. It was one of the most horrible things I have ever witnessed. Karen said 'he always had a screw loose'. That was not true. He was lovely young TB who was anxious about loading. Will lip chained him and shanked his so violently that he flipped out of the trailer and concussed. After he woke up, bleeding from the nose and disoriented, Will tried to load him again but people intervened. This was a very public event with witnesses. I get it. Accidents happen. This was not an accident. It was temper and impatience. A Master Horseman.

He did act in a movie about vampires sucking menstrual blood,

He does exaggerate his bona fides.

He does blame everyone and everything for everything. He does trash everyone from de Kunffy to Heuschman. And now its me, oh boo hoo, A grown man goes on fb (a closed group, mind yoou) and asks for money to sue a girl who exposes him as a liar. A guy who for years has made every youtbue video about music, mairjuana, his moethod...hw many thousands of videos does Will have out there?! and he is whiniing about a girl, me, who has personal experience with him and his horses and wants MONEY to SUE ME. OMG! You couldnt make that up!

He and Karen did get Silver Medals. (some of his peeps are so green they seem to think these were Olympic medals, poor lambs)

I have no desire to be Daughter of Nuno or inflate my background or make a you tube channel All About Me or spend every hour of every waking day talking into my cell phone. I dont need Wills clients. I dont have professional jealousy, I have a wonderful life with lovely clients and friends and horses. Im not a sociopath or psychopath >;-D

I certainly never intended to make Tytti 'uneasy'. She and Katherine Potter were very kind and collegial. If anyone cares I have copies of our messages. They are nice people who love their horses and I wish them nothing but the best.

I have never been asked to leave a public facility.

I do ride.

I did not have a 'secret dont watch Abby Ride' status hahahahaha !!! Omg, who claims such a thing about someone >;->

I have never shown dressage and have never pretended so. I am a member of CDS and was chapter chair of TEV-CDS.

I am girl who loves horses and hates liars. Sue me >;-D

Everything thing I have stated about Will is true and verifiable.

Jess
Greenie
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:46 pm

Re: Will Faerber again

Postby Jess » Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:54 pm

Abby Kogler wrote:
SusyQRidesPluto wrote:I have known Will personally since he rode and trained my horse in 2010. Legolas was ruined horse before Amber took him over. Lots of drama at the barn I get it. I am alone at my own place. I don’t subscribe to all trainers ideas bc ai have over 40 years of my own horse experience. I have ridden with Curtis Sage, Poulin, Sandi Chohaney, Mette Rosencrantz, many others. I ride for fun. Horses a lifestyle. A love. Will’s methods are unique and were effective on my horse. I grew up with classical German dressage something that was not really done much in the USA and classical dressage has gone almost underground. I think this is a personal axe to grind. I have been truly inspired by Will and watching in person for many years his methods 2010/2021. I don’t need to involve myself in any personal matters because I don’t board at barns and haven’t for many years. I never saw much that impressed me when ai boarded at Arroyo Del Mar for 16 years. Oh I was impressed with Andreas Hausberger who has trained the latest Olympic gold winner and her lovely horse Dalera.
Dressage is a passion and I hope the moderators of this group take away slanderous personal grudges and who cares if you don’t like Will? I like him. I have used him. Ps it’s really really hard to make a Lipizzaner stretch. Not like a point and click warmblood that is in fashion. Let’s support each other. Dressage is for harmony. I have seen in person so much harmony in horses Will has worked with.



Perhaps you missed the early videos of Amber and Lego at Carolines. Will enthoused how he had found this lovely horse and Amber had been so lucky to buy him. He sure looked sound in those videos. I could send you the PPE that attests to Legos PERFECT health, soundness, and xrays. I could send you the video his Sara made soon before Amber bought him. He was not broken.

This is consistent with Will. Every horse was wrecked before Will fixed him. A horse that does not do well in his program was Wrecked Before He Came. Perhaps was a lunatic, green, until Will saved her, But she had a nice record to fourth level. Contigo was wrecked and had never really been ridden but gee, he had a super score in his stallion testing and a nice career and as jumper. Q was the lovely perfect horse they had searched for and were lucky to find, Will said how easy she will be to train since she was a blank slate, but gee whiz now she was broken! and she has a Long Back! And she 'drops behind the bit!" so she needs that crank. And Lip bites since he lived in a pasture with other horses so is Dangerous! and needs a flash to keep him from biting! WTH is up with that, Master Horseman? Seriously? And though they have perfect footing and Karen is the trimmer fee whiz they are having foot problems and now are in shoes.

Will has put himself out there as Son of Nuno. And that Henriquet had the Answers. But Catherine Henriquest has asked Will to remove all references to her husband from his videos. He says he 'showed on the prestigious Florida Circuit" though there is NO RECORD of it. That always made me laugh regardless, cause I could take my donkey and go to any horse show I wanted...you pay the fees. you show, >;->

I am glad that stretching has helped. Too many trainers just pull and hold and thats no good either.

General responses to some of the above posts:

Will is claiming I 'spread filth" hahahahahaha~ ! hmmm...exposing a liar isnt 'filth"

I didnt sue or press charges. He was inappropriate and annoying, not dangerous. My daughters and students just went the long way around and avoided him. Its not a crime to be sleazy.

He did make a ridiculous soft porn movie, Clothing Optional.

The horse that his temper flipped out of a trailer did die. I watched it struggle, it lived across from my xties. It was one of the most horrible things I have ever witnessed. Karen said 'he always had a screw loose'. That was not true. He was lovely young TB who was anxious about loading. Will lip chained him and shanked his so violently that he flipped out of the trailer and concussed. After he woke up, bleeding from the nose and disoriented, Will tried to load him again but people intervened. This was a very public event with witnesses. I get it. Accidents happen. This was not an accident. It was temper and impatience. A Master Horseman.

He did act in a movie about vampires sucking menstrual blood,

He does exaggerate his bona fides.

He does blame everyone and everything for everything. He does trash everyone from de Kunffy to Heuschman. And now its me, oh boo hoo, A grown man goes on fb (a closed group, mind yoou) and asks for money to sue a girl who exposes him as a liar. A guy who for years has made every youtbue video about music, mairjuana, his moethod...hw many thousands of videos does Will have out there?! and he is whiniing about a girl, me, who has personal experience with him and his horses and wants MONEY to SUE ME. OMG! You couldnt make that up!

He and Karen did get Silver Medals. (some of his peeps are so green they seem to think these were Olympic medals, poor lambs)

I have no desire to be Daughter of Nuno or inflate my background or make a you tube channel All About Me or spend every hour of every waking day talking into my cell phone. I dont need Wills clients. I dont have professional jealousy, I have a wonderful life with lovely clients and friends and horses. Im not a sociopath or psychopath >;-D

I certainly never intended to make Tytti 'uneasy'. She and Katherine Potter were very kind and collegial. If anyone cares I have copies of our messages. They are nice people who love their horses and I wish them nothing but the best.

I have never been asked to leave a public facility.

I do ride.

I did not have a 'secret dont watch Abby Ride' status hahahahaha !!! Omg, who claims such a thing about someone >;->

I have never shown dressage and have never pretended so. I am a member of CDS and was chapter chair of TEV-CDS.

I am girl who loves horses and hates liars. Sue me >;-D

Everything thing I have stated about Will is true and verifiable.




A few things that are true, that are positive, that you, twist, and add your vendetta onto.


Return to “Dressage Training”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 66 guests