Talk to me of long lining/double longeing/ground driving

[Ponichiwa]

You may or may not have heard of Kiwi and my ongoing struggles with connection. Recently, I've been advised that double longeing/ground driving/long line work may help get over some of the more dramatic moments. It's also a hole in my skillset that I probably should do some work on-- and it can't hurt me to get my winter-weight butt moving around more. I'm (relatively) well-equipped with several longe lines, a surcingle, and various whips.

So, all that said, what are your favorite exercises-- and why? How often do you/your trainer work in lines? Have you found long lining to be beneficial to your progression? What pitfalls have you seen?

[Code3]

I ground drive a lot with my young horse, including the horse park. He has learned to cross water and bridges being ground driven. In the arena, he does w/t/c in double lines, and jumps. He will reverse direction at both walk and trot. I think it has given him confidence and exposure where I have control. On those occasions when he has wanted to go a different direction than I had in mind, I can finesse him with the long lines. It has been, for me, a great way to expose him to lots of things without being on his back, but in a way that is safe for both of us. This is a newly learned skill for me but I have learned to work him in a contact and the absolute necessity of the outside rein. I highly recommend it.

[airefjordphil]

I just ordered long lines and a surcingle to work w/ my overweight 9-year old Fjord who is challenged developing a balanced, unrushed canter. A while ago he tripped and fell w/ me when I asked him to pick up his more difficult left lead. I came off since he did a full somersault. This really alarmed my trainer, who thinks tripping horses are extremely dangerous. So I've committed to a couple of months of riding bareback (his saddle is pinching) w/t and learning to long line. My trainer and a visiting clinician have both successfully long lined him now -- they can ask for rounding and bend, get leg yields at the walk, and cue brief canter moments -- w/ the correct lead -- on a 20 meter circle. So all in all I have a very favorable impression of this resource and look forward to acquiring some rudimentary skills. FWIW my Fjord spent his early years as a driving horse, so that may have facilitated those first long lining attempts.

[Amado]

I have done lot of long lining/double lunging in the past with Rico - its a great skillset to expand on, and it's a lot of fun! I still do some, but I feel like it had more value early on in his training, I tend to see the limitations more now than I did then (but perhaps that's just me!) - so please don't take the following as trying to talk you out of doing it with your horse!

I love how you can rig things differently depending on what you are desiring to teach. You can run them through high on the surcingle and do lots of changes of direction, or you can run the lines lower and come around the haunches with the outside line, you have some control over where the horse places them and you can ask them to step in on the circle, or you can teach the horse leg yield off of on a straight line, and then on to other lateral work.

So its nice having an outside aid in the form of the oustide longline to help with straightness on a circle, but The issue with running the lines around the haunches (when you are on a circle) is the effect the movement of the hind leg has on the line - each time the hind leg pushes, the line goes tight and it pulls on the horses mouth on that side, so there isn't a good connection (in fact, there is a tug with every stride). If you do your circles with the lines up higher (and over the back, insteadh of around the haunches) you have a nice outside rein, but you have no way to keep the haunches in the proper track, especially as you bring the circle in smaller (does that make sense?)

my other issue with the double lunging or long-rening/lining has been a connection one - the tendency for my horse to get curled and lean on the lines, especially at the canter as there is so very difficult to replicate the breathing but connected hands that you have at the canter when you are riding - trying to do that through 30 feet or so of lungeline, or to replicate the immediate response of your leg when you feel your horse getting "behind the leg" with the lunge whip.

[Amado]

One other word of warning - whatever you do, don't used the lines that connect - make sure your lines are separate. It is so very easy to get tangled up in it all when things go wrong - they get the line up under their tail, or they do a flying leap and get one between a back leg. Rico still flips out every once in awhile even after all these years, and gets the line up under his tail - but now all I have to do as he's trotting around with it clamped so very tight is say "lift your tail, lift your tail" - and he does, and the line slips out. It cracks me up!

[demi]

...- but now all I have to do as he's trotting around with it clamped so very tight is say "lift your tail, lift your tail" - and he does, and the line slips out. It cracks me up!

I did work in hand with Rocky a couple of years ago and her little Arab self got very offended when the line went under her tail. She did eventually get used to it and I very much liked what the work did for us. I think the main thing I got from it was that it built our communication.

I used a book that I think was recommended on UDBB. "Horse Training In-Hand" by Ellen Schuthof-Lesmeister. I liked her philosophy and I liked the book because it gave step by step instructions from the very beginning. The instructions were easy to follow and even though I had already taught Rocky to longe, I started all over from the beginning. I only went through Part III: Long-lining and it took about 3 months to get that far. I was very pleased with the results, to the point of calling my DH out from time to time so he could witness what an adorable genius my little horse was!

It carried over into the riding but I never continued simply because I like riding more than ground work...and it took a lot of thinking on my part which my lazy side objected to!

[Amado]

I think the main thing I got from it was that it built our communication.

Yes! All the ground work has been fantastic for that. And some days, when I'm tired, or when I just don't feel like riding (especially if it's cold) I still seem to have the energy to do that.

[Canyon]

demi, That book sounds interesting. Could you please list the titles of the first few chapters? The description on Amazon talks mostly about in-hand work, and some reviews say it is not for a beginner. My horse lunges well, and we have done some ground work W/T/C with long lines. I just want to make sure that the book starts at a basic enough level for us. Thanks!

[quinta]

I don't have the book in front of me (so I can't give you a chapter list), but I do own a copy. It starts from basics and goes through quite advanced work. I thought the starting chapters were quite good, and didn't think it was too advanced for a relative newbie. She gives good exercises for how to start with two lines with a horse used to single longing.

[demi]

demi, That book sounds interesting. Could you please list the titles of the first few chapters? The description on Amazon talks mostly about in-hand work, and some reviews say it is not for a beginner. My horse lunges well, and we have done some ground work W/T/C with long lines. I just want to make sure that the book starts at a basic enough level for us. Thanks!

Part 1: Orientation to Work In-Hand
Getting started: Importrant Terminology
What it Means to Work In-Hand
Benefits for the Horse and Handler
The Elements of Balance
Lateral Suppleness
Suppleness and Strength of th Back
When to Begin Work In-Hand
Conformation, Collection, adn Flexion
Defining the Types of Work In-Hand
1: Basic Longeing
2: Double Longeing
3: Long-Lining
4: Work in Short Reins
5: Work in Long Reins
Correct Equipment for Work In-Hand
The Philosophy of Training in Lightness

Part II: Longeing and Double-Longeing
Introduction
Basci Longeing
Lesson 1: EvaluateObedience, Flexibility, and Weight-Carrying Ability
Lesson 2: Walk, Trot, Canter
Lesson 3: Longeing in Side Reins
Double-Longeing
Lesson 1 Intro to Double Longe Lines
Lesson 2: Double-Longeing on teh Circle and Figure Eight

[Ponichiwa]

Thanks, everyone! I have in my mind visions of myself a la SRS, looking perfectly poised as my little black pony dances around me.

Reality is likely to be very different, but I'm going to wait til the weekend to prove that.

[galopp]

Realize that the SRS work in short lines comes after they are ridden/completely educated, not before.

For long lining/double lunging I prefer the lines that are connected (although they snap together so they are seperateable). Never let the lines drag, I have seen people injured this way.

Ideally work with an instructor who can help educate as to the proper methodlogy and timing of aids, learn how to prepare effective hh so that the horse remains up/open/acitve. For sure, do good lungeing work first for preparation. Have an assistant if you are going to put the lines behind the hindlegs (because things can go wrong/goosey), and the contact must be light. Sometimes holding both lines in one hand is the most effective (esp on a circle), and it also useful that the handler can allow fdo in this manner as well. If from behind the handler must be either far enough back to prevent kicking (further than you think) or very close (a la srs). The use of the lines for touching/movement can also be useful.

For equipment make sure you have a good surcingle with standing rings and many (large) Ds, probably a crupper (esp if you are going to use the surcingle over a saddle). Ideally lines which are rolled for the first 4-6' as well.

If the horses tend to compress or curl, it is the same as ridden: clearer/concise hh will get the horse up and open. They cannot lean unless they are allowed to do so. But remember the longer the line, the more amplified the effect of the hand. But the same standards apply as with ridden as far as the bended elbows and proper upper arm alignment (I have found that how one holds their arms when lungeing and long lining is exactly the same as when they ride!).

Another useful book is Phillipe Karl's book on lungeing and long lining, although he himself no longer uses the lunge work.

[texsuze]

My dressage trainer had (has) an incredible skill set with long lining. She studied with PK and JC Racinet, for starters. My gelding was familiar with being lunged (spelling) but his introduction to long lining was best left to the expert hands of my trainer. I will never forget the first time she worked with him in the lines--it was poetry in motion and I had the weirdest sense of extreme pride in my horse! My trainer had him flowing with ease, changing direction, serpentines--and this his first experience with this type of work. He, being the sensitive, claustrophobic type, was given several "good boy" breaks and pats to reinforce his confidence. I could see she was enjoying it all, and there was no tension, simply attention on the part of my guy.

My trainer used a single line which she had someone make to her specifications (mine is presently available in the classifieds....). Although I had some lessons with long lining under my trainer's supervision, my attempts at home always seemed to fall short of my goals. If I'd had much more time I might have become more adept at what I considered a very useful tool in the toolbox.

[Canyon]

demi (and quinta) - thank you!

[Code3]

In reading some of the other posts, I wanted to add that ground driving helped me with my position in the saddle as I needed to remember to correctly position myself and my hips when turning. I hh with my core, same as in the saddle. It all reinforced the under saddle work and built a great bond of communication and trust.

[AmityBee]

Ideally work with an instructor who can help educate as to the proper methodlogy and timing of aids

This, this and this!

Books are great tools but if neither you nor your pony have any experience with long lining, long reining, I'd strongly recommend you start out with an instructor. Just a lesson or two will work wonders with an experienced instructor.

It really isn't all that difficult to learn. Took my pony less than 10 minutes to figure out the basics of in hand work, long lining and long reining, but there are a few safety issues that should be addressed, like how not to kill yourself when using connected long lines...

My boy is really good about the lines (he couldn't care less where they are going). I think it took my instructor 20 minutes with him to get the basics down and then it was my turn with him (having never done it before). At the end of the first 45 minute lesson the pony and I did walk/trot on the lines.

It is so much fun! My favorite thing to do right now is long reining. I haven't done much long lining lately but we are doing a bit of in hand work before almost every ride.

[ElaPe]

I have been long lining my mare since the very beginning since whe was 4. Actually it was not a problem to get her used to the lines, nor the touch of them annoyed her. I found the lines to be more useful then a longe line because you have more control over the horse, especially on the outside shoulder. She has displayed some anticks a few times such as spinning around so that the lines wrapped around her, but by keeping calm and insisting on further work she gradually stopped with that. I have seen the long lining in Monty Roberts clinic, later I got a book by Philippe Karl and just started long lining. I bought a regular line in Home Depot not too stiff and not too thin, attached. It is one piece, about 15m long, with attached snaps at both ends. The longing girth has no stading rings and it is not a problem.

[galopp]

(not a fan of low set lines or acting as a draw rein. Imho it tends to put the horse too low/closed). Always add a pommal pad at the withers as well.