Retraining the Reining-trained Quarter Horse

[Sagenhaft]

I am beginning the process of teaching my Quarter Horse, Cruz, that rein contact is okay, and that a forward trot, actually forward in any gait, is goodness. He will work for a while, then get "over it," and start a super-cool (not) evasion where he tosses his head and starts bouncing like he is going to either buck or rear, or levitate. In my lesson last week we finally got him through that by using leg yields. We are getting there, slowly, but I would love to hear from anyone who has traveled this road before. What did you find most helpful in getting them past the training that has been so ingrained; the jog trot, the "headset" and resulting inability to stretch the topline and go to the bit, and the tension coiled into that back??? We have, at least, eliminated the sliding stop. LOL

[Sue B]

Sounds like he is finding the new work tiring. Remember, he is using new muscles, different from reining muscles, so frequent loose rein walk breaks are in order. Try to break before he becomes resistant. My Scotty (ottb rehab i once owned) went thru this early in his rehab but they were more like panic attacks and progressed to "running away" in the trot or canter. I would simply sit quietly until his mind returned and then i would pat him and reassure him it was all good. Took about 2yrs to completely go away!

Retired reining horses often have damaged hocks, stifles, and/or caudal thigh muscles. You might check his butt and thigh muscles for scarring from deep tears. Also, be sure the saddle is not hurting him some where.

[LeoApp]

I have been riding a WP/trail horse that did not understand contact. However, he was responsive, bent his body nicely, and has a willing disposition. I have had 6 dressage lessons on him so far, and the last one was jaw dropping!! Our first lessons consisted of random head flinging and balking even with very, very light contact. And then if I gave him a little rein he would try to reef the rest out of my hands. We just kept sending him forward, keeping his mind busy with changes of direction and shallow loops and serpentines. We also changed his bit from the loose ring KK Ultra to a thin D-ring. He has a low palate and was much happier with the thinner bit. Just keep at it! You will see all of a sudden the light bulb will go on.

[smithywess]

Sh,
If you are familiar with the schooling involved in Traditional French equitation you can effect the changeover very well but of course it won't happen overnight. It is an interesting, and very satisfying, journey. To try to go from little or no contact to the contact practiced in competitive dressage is a recipe for unhappiness.

[Sagenhaft]

Luckily I got him as a 4yo before he was ridden too much and not yet competed. So he hasn't got any injuries that I am aware of. I have also had chiropractic done on him, and he is in good shape. So it really is all in the understanding. Some good suggestions here, thank you! I would love to see more. He is S L O W, that is the other thing. I am working more toward forward at this point and if he moves into a tiny bit of contact I reward him. Getting forward...my thought is first on the longe? To get him to understand more about what I am looking for.

[Tuddy]

Sh,
If you are familiar with the schooling involved in Traditional French equitation you can effect the changeover very well but of course it won't happen overnight. It is an interesting, and very satisfying, journey. To try to go from little or no contact to the contact practiced in competitive dressage is a recipe for unhappiness.

I was going to suggest the same thing. There are some exercises I was taught in a clinic this summer (Classical French/Philippe Karl) that we have used on other horses to help mobilize the jaw. There was one horse in particular that was ridden (and held) behind the vertical throughout its show life that had a tough time stretching out into the hand. This horse now, so I was updated, really benefits from it.

[Kelo]

I don't know how reining broke he is, but maybe try researching a good reining trainer and see if you can talk to your horse in the language he already understands. Look up Dick Pieper, he is a true horseman regardless of tack. His Basic #1 and Basic #2 are what you're looking for. I highly recommend his DVDs, but here is a short clip of it: http://youtu.be/8w3CmPXWVVk

So take your horse out, push him forward and set your reins while he roots. When he softens his jaw, give a huuuuge release so he knows he done good (Basic #1). proceed with that and Basic #2, and you should be able to work through it.

As far as forward, there is a discipline gap for that. Can you take him trail riding? That can encourage forward.

Or is he familiar with cattle? If you have access to some slow cows and a cattle pen (it's like a big round pen), you can use them to your advantage. Not cutting, mind, just pushing the cows around it. That gives him a *reason* to go forward without you having to nag...then you can train while his mind is more occupied with cow.

Otherwise, I personally would simply emphasize forward. Loosen the reins (veery light or barely no contact, so as to not confuse - 1 new thing at a time - and use leg and dressage whip as backup to really push forward around the outside of the arena. Biiiig rewards when he makes the slightest try to what you want.

If he is rearing, I would make forward the top priority, and then work on Basic #1.

[Sagenhaft]

Thanks all, and especially Kelo! Good information there! We have chased cows around an arena (super fun!!!), and have done trail riding. When out on the trail he sometimes throws that nasty little head-tossing, hopping up and down evasion at me, so I am back in the arena until we get that out of his mind. So I am thinking long, straight lines and really moving as much as he will go forward at this point. Rewarding the smallest response for now and working for more. I am working on it from the ground now, too, on the longe, so he understands that when I ask for forward trot that does NOT mean canter. He is a good boy, I love him a lot! But he has the attention span of a gnat right now!

Also, thanks for the tip on Dick Pieper. I like what he is showing. That will help me a lot. The horse came to me as a reasonably solid late 4yo, in fact I picked him up on his fifth birthday. He is a good sort. We just need to learn each other's language in order to advance.

[PNG_Pony]

A few years back, I worked with a young, very non-forward horse (pig rooting and all, even in the roundpen with no one on her back). What worked for her was creating two points on opposite sides of the roundpen (I bet this would work on the lunge or under saddle too). I just sent her back and forth to each cone. Once she got to the cone, she could stop and stand and I'd wait for her to relax. Then, I'd send her to the other cone. She very quickly figured out that she could stop (her goal) once she moved across the pen, and thus her speed picked up and her eagerness to go forward. We then started extending the distance of the cones and eventually they were removed all together. I wouldn't use it with all horses, but it clicked with something in her brain and now there's no problem.

[Kathy Johnson]

JMHO, but in these kind of cases where the horse has been stuck behind the bridle, you are going to have to make a choice between balance before motion, or finding balance in motion, or be really clever blending the two. I sometimes do latter, doing work in hand but also sending the horse in a very energetic gait under saddle, without worrying about the head.

For me, I would choose forward first, keep simple, light contact with the easiest bit and begin to develop thrusting power in the trot. The canter will likely be easier because reiners canter so much. But walk and trot, forward first. To remake this broken connection, you are going to need pushing power from behind, which will you may only get at first if you don't worry about the front end.

[Sagenhaft]

Making progress! I haven't ridden him this week, I just longed with the halter and no side reins, encouraging him to stretch forward and down and engage. As he did that I praised him and, since I do clicker training, I clicked and treated when he did what I wanted. I will try to get some video of him doing this. The first few days we did at the walk only. I added trot yesterday and, although we had a few of his explosive moments (hoping these will fade with frequent work in this area--although he doesn't do it under saddle this is a big part of what damages my confidence), the rest was brilliant! I am really liking this! I have another lesson this evening, we'll see how this translates to the ride.

[Reiter]

I a, reschooling an ex reiner now. But she is buzzed so I slowed everything down. She'll take a nice contact (3 weeks working now) but it musta looked funny at first to anyone watching....she had been trained to keep her head down so I would gently lift the reins almost straight up and still use basics of inside leg to outside rein, but she needed to know it was ok to have her head up and stretch to the bridle. Contact light but just "up" a lot until she got the idea!

For her, she needs to have a "working trot" behave more as a collected jog. Once she is balanced and carrying her shoulders more up, then I can go to a nice working trot and it is very good. She's been hacking out for 6 months just to get the muscles on her so she has the strength to do that.

Same with canter, I have to slow it down, then let her take bigger strides once she has balanced herself a bit. At canter, I still have to lift one or both reins at times to give her that support, basically keeping that contact 'for her' when she can't do it alone at this early stage.

This horse also is learning to stretch using a LOT of figures....I warm up with walk squares and shoulder fore to TOF turn and back down the line maybe haunches in....I keep her always loading underneath and working to the outside rein. Then we do trot work straight and stretchy, leg yields and SI. Transitions in a SI attitude sets her up to keep the contact AND carry herself more.

I haven't ever fussed with how she carries her head, but with the gymnastics, she is now taking the bridle on her own and carrying much of the time and starting to stretch nicely. It is basically setting the horse up to find those contacts and balances and then not disturbing the horse too much. Lots of transitions and school figures. Riding ACCURATE figures is key because it forces the rider to keep the horse between the legs, i.e. straight. Riding sloppy figures means the horse will bulge out on their natural-tending bulgy side, fall in, swing haunches out, whatever it is they do.

This mare is about 14 and she actually has good hocks, amazingly! I don't think the owner rode the socks off of her as a reiner. But she has an education so understands how to learn. That makes the transition much easier! I enjoy the athleticism and forwardness...now I just have to channel it more and more! I'll see if I can get some pix next week. Oh, and the new owner is having her re-schooled for pleasure riding, not dressage, but dressage is the way she is going to succeed at becoming a very nice riding horse! They are thrilled at how she looks now, taking the contact and carrying herself uphill a lot of the time now. They tell me she looks so "fancy" moving. I think it is exciting to see a horse use its body and power in an organized fashion, carrying its neck gently arched over and to the bridle...she feels elegant to me like that when I sit her. Her outline before was much flatter, downhill at times and much less flexible laterally, no contact with the bridle. She surprised me with beautiful bend and impulsion in shoulder-ins once she understood what I was asking...she handles them with the outline of a 3rd level horse. Pretty cool for a plain-jane little cow pony!