Loose ring bits...am I crazy?

[myleetlepony]

I don't like them. There, I said it.

Every horse that has come to me in one tends to have a "hard" mouth. They either bear down and pull/push or go above.

I feel like loose rings, especially with French links or beans, tend to be "sloppy" (for lack of a better term). It's like my hand and arm aids have to be amplified to be effective. I much prefer an eggbutt or full cheek without keepers, no matter which mouthpiece.

Even when I feel it's a previous training problem, if I start at square one and go back to teach basic flexions again, it seems to be more effective in the EB or FC.

Does anyone else have a similar feeling about them?

[no.stirrups]

Yep. I think "sloppy" is a good term. I've referred to it as "static" from the jiggling bit that my aids have to get through. I don't often speak of my feelings on the matter, but last time I did, to a highly experienced UL trainer, he said that people with really good hands tend to feel that way!

[orono]

I don't like them at all either, nor do I like the feel of the double jointed bits. My bit of choice (for snaffle or bradoon) is a single jointed eggbutt.

[Fatcat]

I don't like them either, I prefer egg butts.

[DJR]

Add me to the list of those who don't like them. I tried to like them, but they haven't felt right in any horse I've used them on. In fact, I always worried about the loose ring pinching the sides of the horse's mouth, so I very carefully sized them for the horse. But, if they slid through the mouth at all, I'd see that they could pinch.

I far prefer egg butt snaffles or full-cheek snaffles or D-ring snaffles, especially for my youngsters.

[galopp]

The only reason for using egg butts over loose rings is really to prevent pinching. My fav is a fulmer, which is a loose ring but with a full cheek.

[Bats79]

Haven't noticed a difference, but then I "bit" to the needs of the horse so maybe I change as required. I certainly have more loose ring snaffles than egg butts (and I hate that some egg butts squeak) but....

I like the fulmer too but for some reason people tend to look at the horse as though you have chosen the fulmer because the horse is difficult to steer - which is not the case. Also they fit better with a drop noseband than a cavesson (the full cheek can get tucked under a cavesson and on a green horse that is contra indicated ) and getting good fitting drop nosebands can be quite an effort.

[Chisamba]

I, like Bats, try numerous bits and let the horse choose. i do find that most horses, ( to my surprise and people tend to fight with me on this one) prefer a single jointed snaffle. i think the double jointed snaffles put a lot of tongue pressure and some horses then fuss or lift their tongue over the bit, at which people then tighten the nose band, which increases the tongue pressure.

so for me, it is more about a correctly fitting single joint, not too thick in diameter. My go to is also a fulmer, and yes, unless it is put in keepers it does not always work with cavesson nose band. i have also met a few people who think fulmers are for difficult horses or harsh bits, and i honestly do not understand where that conception comes from. I had a judge criticise me for using a fulmer as it is too harsh so i told her i would ask the SRS riders next time i rode with one, why they used a " harsh bit" since they started all their young horses in them. Of course i should have held my tongue because now i have a oft used well known judge who has a grudge against me, lol.

anyway, i am not a fan of double jointed bits but i have a few in case a horse seems to prefer them, and i have loose rings and i have egg butts. i think the thickness and joints are more significant than the loose rings, since the fulmer has a loose ring and i like it, i guess i do not agree with your assessment. i do have a fixed ring full cheek too. I cannot say i have noted a particular tendency for the horse to be heavier in the loose ring.

[Sue B]

Like Chisamba, I let the horse choose. Current two, Rudy loves his double jointed loose ring, hate single joints and prefers loose ring over fixed; Tio is still in a full-cheek single joint and I am guessing he will prefer the fixed ring, no guesses on double vs single joint but that experiment is still a ways off. Scotty preferred fixed ring, double joint, Lad went best in a loose ring. I have a bucket of bits.

[khall]

The only reason I do not like a loose ring is that they can pinch some fleshy lipped horses. I tend to like a double jointed bit, have very few single jointed ones. For me though it is more about the hands that are at the end of the reins that the bit itself. No I have never had one of my horses end up with a "hard" mouth using a loose ring.

[galopp]

Fulmers also (tend to)prevent any tilting of the head (really not about steering per se except with a greenie). (Agree with khall)

[kande50]

The only reason I do not like a loose ring is that they can pinch some fleshy lipped horses. I tend to like a double jointed bit, have very few single jointed ones. For me though it is more about the hands that are at the end of the reins that the bit itself. No I have never had one of my horses end up with a "hard" mouth using a loose ring.

I never gave my horse a choice, either. I just started him in a double jointed loose ring, and then changed it to a double jointed egg butt when a judge told me to. I wouldn't have even changed it (because I was happy with how he was going in the loose ring) but was planning to ride for the same judge again and thought she would probably remember telling me to ditch the loose ring, and didn't think it was important enough to annoy her over.

Horse didn't seem to have a preference, although I've never changed it back so wouldn't have any way to tell if he did.

[myleetlepony]

I haven't had opportunity to try fulmers with the horses. I am usually working with owners who come to me after many frustrating trainer experiences who are on tight budgets. They come in with hard mouth, crooked horses in double jointed loose rings, usually with a flash. It's like Sprenger did a blitz sale in my area.

So, yeah, it could be more training than anything, but it seems that the horse (in general) still fights when I go back and work basic flexions in-hand. Usually, as soon as I put tension on the rein, they push forward into the bit, or raise up.

Since I'm generally of the "work with what you've got as long as it fits" kind of person, I'll ask if they have any other bits...among various harsh ones, there's usually a basic d-ring, eggbutt or full cheek in the bottom of the bucket. Owner's response when I pull it out is "well, that's what he came with but my trainer at time..."

I'll throw that bit on, take off the flash, loosen the nose band, and within a session I'll have a horse interested in the subtle conversation going on with his mouth.

Then again, even my own mare, who's only ever been ridden in a d-ring, an eggbutt, full cheek, and Boucher (and her double) does not like the o-ring.

I can certainly work with the o-ring, but again, it seems like I have to amplify...instead of a closing my fingers, I have to take a step further and raise the hand a bit, or instead of a subtle change in my body coming through, I have to add more with my hand. I just don't have to do that with a fixed ring.

[jeniferkey]

It wasn't easy to find, but I switched Miaren to a Boucher Mullen mouth and he finally got easy. I figured it was that my hands weren't steady enough for the other bits, but I didn't really care since he seemed happy. Now the new boy is in a single jointed egg butt, because it's what I had that fit him and I'm wondering if I should spend the money to try him in a Boucher Mullen. I think I'm going to wait until we know each other better.

[mld02004]

Not a huge fan either. I prefer eggbutts or full cheeks, single jointed. Both my horses prefer them to anything else.