The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

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Tuddy
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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:18 pm

I had a #win yesterday.

No one was at the barn yesterday, no one, not even the barn owner or her husband. I was the only one on the property. So what do I do? I saddle up my hoss and go riding into the sunset. No, not really. :mrgreen:

But I did put a saddle on my Tuddy, lunged him, grabbed the mounting block, set up my camera on my phone and hopped on. I walked a circle, got off and called it a day.

I have never ridden this horse on my own. Never. I always thought I was too green for him or he was too green for me. But yesterday, I just followed my gut and did it. And he looked after me. I was the student and he was the coach. He let me finish on a good note for the sake of my mental well being. Total role reversal.

Progress people. It is a slow progress for Tuddy and I, but we are getting there.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby kande50 » Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:56 pm

Tuddy wrote:

Progress people. It is a slow progress for Tuddy and I, but we are getting there.


I think slow progress is better for horses, and gives us a chance to really work on whatever it is that we're working on without distractions. Not that time with instructors isn't useful, but that time in between when it's just the two of us trying to figure it out at our own pace is the best.
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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Ryeissa » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:33 pm

what a lovely picture!
Sounds like you are having a grand time!

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Chisamba » Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:41 pm

Love it

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Chisamba » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:52 pm

Love it

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby leheath8 » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:22 am

Yay for you! :) And beautiful photograph.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Quelah » Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:19 pm

Just reading this thread. So sorry about the experience at the clinic, but…unless I'm misreading this thread, I know nothing personally about Hoekstra but from googling he fancies himself a bit of a BNT, I'm not sure how that was going to go well. It sounds like you and your horse are not really ready for prime time at this point in your relationship, maybe a (god I hate this term but lacking anything better) natural horsemanship type clinic with emphasis on young horses and ground work would be more suitable?

And I will fervently hope and jingle that the cataracts issue is not significant. Having lost the young horse of a life time to cataracts not so long ago…Well, I will just hope that it is not that, or that if it is, it's very very minor.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:41 pm

Quelah wrote:And I will fervently hope and jingle that the cataracts issue is not significant. Having lost the young horse of a life time to cataracts not so long ago…Well, I will just hope that it is not that, or that if it is, it's very very minor.



Sorry to hear about the loss of your horse. I am hoping that Tuddy's case is minor as well, thank you for your jingles.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:15 pm

Gosh it has been a while since I updated, but I really haven't had anything to update. I won't lie, I have been in a bit of a funk with everything (the horrible clinic experience, the eye issue, life in general), so Tuddy and I took a little time off to regroup. I have only had a couple lessons since the end of May and then we just did hang out stuff.

I audited a couple of Dale Irwin clinics at the neighbors place, and have gotten myself tied up in a friendly challenge with another horse owning friend that we have to do at least one lesson with Dale the next time he comes out (end of September). If one of us doesn't show up, we have to pay half a lesson fee for the person that did. I am gonna win! LOL

Tuddy's eye appointment with the specialist is the weekend of August 20, and then Eddo comes back to my barn the following week I believe, but I don't think I am up to another lesson with him just yet. Maybe next year.

Anyways, after not being rode for a month, I hopped up on Tuddy last night and rode around a bit in the arena while my coach was riding her mare. It was a great learning experience for Tuddy, as he has never had to work while there were other horses in the arena. He did great, we worked on the basics, staying relaxed, nice walk, staying straight, moving off the wall and then back to it. I worked on 'quiet hands = quiet horse', not collapsing in my core, just general positioning things. It was nice. We are going to do the group pole lesson that my coach puts on for the boarders on Saturday. Should be fun!

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby vkitty » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:01 am

You both look calm and happy. Love his expression!

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:55 pm

I am so tempted to throw in the towel. So.damn.tempted.

A friend of mine from Alberta was visiting yesterday along with another friend from just a few hours away to take pictures of all my Canadians. They are both Canadian owners and breeders, and the one from Alberta is a professional equine photographer.

Got to the barn, had an excellent shoot outside the arena, and then we tacked up to do a couple pics of me sitting on him, not riding, just sitting. Took him back to the area we were working at, had my friend help me get on and then boom, I am looking at the sky and Tuddy is tearing around bucking and honking showing us all his rodeo moves. He also ran through my friend and knocked her the ground and she got a hoof to the leg. Then he stopped and started eating grass like nothing happened.

My confidence is shot. I am tired. I just want a damn horse to ride.

I don't know what I could have done that would have prevented this, everything was going smoothly, no inclination from him that he would buck. I landed on my back, and am feeling whiplash effects from where my head came back and met the ground. I already have a massage booked tonite and will the chiro tomorrow.

Bah.

Yes, I was wearing a helmet, and I thanked the heavens above that when I landed, I just went splat, and not snap.

And my cell phone provider has limited my speed to watch the Olympics online so I am getting the cruddiest connection ever to watch the freestyle.

Life sucks.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby kande50 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:02 pm

Tuddy wrote:My confidence is shot. I am tired. I just want a damn horse to ride.


This will likely be of no comfort, but this kind of thing is not all that uncommon with horses unless one has been very careful to select a particularly safe horse, and even then, things can go south unexpectedly.

I tend to like a challenge, so these sorts of events usually just make me more determined, but if it doesn't work that way for you there is always the option of getting rid of the horse(s) that aren't working for you and trying to find something that might.

I don't know what I could have done that would have prevented this, everything was going smoothly, no inclination from him that he would buck.


I don't know either, except perhaps ride him more often and try to be more careful about assessing his frame of mind before getting on?

It's happened to me enough over the years that I've learned to be much more observant, just in case my horse had particularly scary nightmares the night before and might still be on edge.

Very fortunate that you were wearing your helmet and didn't get seriously hurt.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby orono » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:23 pm

Has he been in regular work? Have you ever been on him in the area where you mounted for pictures? Anything we do with our animals either sets them up for success or failure, depending on temperament some are more forgiving than others. I'm glad you weren't seriously injured.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:35 pm

orono wrote:Has he been in regular work? Have you ever been on him in the area where you mounted for pictures? Anything we do with our animals either sets them up for success or failure, depending on temperament some are more forgiving than others. I'm glad you weren't seriously injured.


Yes to first and no, I haven't been on him in that particular area, but he is quite familiar with that area. We worked him before I got on, in that area, he was text book ready in our eyes, so we felt confident that he would be fine for me to sit on him. I wasn't even looking to ride him. Just sit.

Ah well, lesson learned. Back to square one now, as that is his thing, bad experience isn't two steps back, it's all of them. I have no desire to give up on him, I will give up on myself before that happens. He has his full eye exam on Friday, and a body work session on Saturday. Hopefully, buy Monday, we will be able to ride him with little difficulty. Until then, it is tacking and lunging in the arena and ground work sessions.

And thanks, yes, I am happy too that I am fine. Sore, but fine.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Chisamba » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:51 pm

You have compared Tuddy to Deneb in the past, and I can tell you that I would not expect to be able to saddle up Deneb and take her to a photo site without considerable warm up, even if she had been there in hand with me and seen the stuff before. Being on the horses back is very different in a flight animal, than being on the ground with them.

It seems to me that you want Tuddy to be something he is not. The kind of horse that you can just hop on. When i thought Deneb was not going to be safe for me to ride, I chose to retire her. Luckily she has grown up a bit and now is a horse i can trust more, but never so much as you seem to expect to trust Tuddy.

I am sure that Khall, with her nervous mare, would agree with me, ( kande too) certain types of horses you have always to pay more attention to, and set up for success more, and be exceptionally aware and prepared and consistent with. If Deneb goes more than two days without work, i have to bring her back into work with caution, i cannot just hop on and ride her.

I am not really in favor of anthropomorphism, but i bet you he feels you let him down.

I am not a person who believes that every horse suits every rider, if you have a horse that does not match your temperament, do you best to find some one who does, and let him go, or be prepared to adjust your expectation. Just my opinion.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:48 pm

The photo site was the north side of the arena, in the area that is considered the outdoor ring (not fenced though), and he has had sessions there before. He is no stranger to it. And he was lunged and warmed up considerably, as prior experience has shown that is what is needed for him. Like I said, he was totally cool and calm. I was going to have to get on him out there eventually, and he felt fine. He was calm, relaxed, level headed and absolutely okay with the surroundings. I can tell when he is going to have one of his, no not today sessions - at least I thought I did. The only thing different from yesterday from other days was the photographer and my friend who helped me mount up, and all they did was stand in the area where everyone else stands when they are not riding, which he is also familiar with.

I am totally okay with taking the fault for this, as I am not totally blind in how horses can be, but I am also not going to be made to feel like I set him up for failure, because I didn't.

Absolutely, he feels like I let him down, because something happened, in my presence, and he figured I couldn't protect him from it and he kicked into flight mode ASAP. I totally get that and understand that.

I absolutely respect everyone's comments, especially those with the nervous horses! I wish you were here, because maybe, there was something so minute that I didn't catch, as the other two very experienced horse people that were with me, could not see any reason why he bucked.

Wanna know what the whole frustrating part is? I can go barn to barn, show to show, clinic to clinic, and see people do the most awful things to their horses and get away with it. And then there is me, who is taking it as baby step as possible, and trying to preserve his frazzled brain, and this is the thanks I get. Coaching, body work, vetting, personal research, readings from psychics (no, not that far, but almost!) I know it sounds petty, but it's almost like Karma is kicking me in the ass for something I did in my past life. I want to do right by this horse, he is "my" horse. Anyone that sees us together can vouch for it. Which is why we are back tracking, because, like Chisamba said, he does feel like I let him down. I am sure he feels absolute betrayal at me at the moment. I'm just about ready to throw my hands in the air and say fine, pasture life for you.

And you know what - maybe something that we didn't see did bite him in the ass.... the mosquitos, horseflies and wasps are pretty brutal at the moment. Could happen...

(Please, I hope no one thinks I am getting too defensive, I try not to come across that way, I hope I don't offend anyone. I am on this board to learn, and I appreciate all the comments...)

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:57 pm

Tuddy wrote:
Anyways, after not being rode for a month, I hopped up on Tuddy last night and rode around a bit in the arena while my coach was riding her mare. It was a great learning experience for Tuddy, as he has never had to work while there were other horses in the arena. He did great, we worked on the basics, staying relaxed, nice walk, staying straight, moving off the wall and then back to it. I worked on 'quiet hands = quiet horse', not collapsing in my core, just general positioning things. It was nice.


Just so I can kind of put things in perspective - I felt my anxiety more on this ride than I did yesterday. I was not overly confident in his abilities to handle the above situation in such a small enclosure.

Damn Jekyll and Hyde horse!

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby kande50 » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:25 pm

Tuddy wrote:I am totally okay with taking the fault for this, as I am not totally blind in how horses can be, but I am also not going to be made to feel like I set him up for failure, because I didn't.


No, you probably didn't. He may have been fine with everything until you got on, and then there just wasn't enough time between when he was calm and when he lost it for you to have any chance of being able to recognize that he'd lost his confidence.


.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Chisamba » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:35 pm

Do not be offended by language. i consider every mistake a horse makes my own. I have either set them up for success or failure. i simply do this for two reasons, the first is, i have to acknowledge to myself that the horse is designed to be a herd animal with flight or fight, we are the ones who choose to change them from that into a riding horse. if they had the choice, they would be safely in their herd eating moving and sleeping.

so if i blame myself at the outset, then i am of the mindset to examine what i need to do differently to change the mistake. We learn from fixing our mistakes, that is the whole process of both learning and teaching.

blaming a horse for not understanding something is like blaming a toddler for not reading directions

i hope you feel better soon.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Flight » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:09 am

Sorry to read this has happened to you! It's such an unpleasant feeling when you have no trust in your horse, after they do something like that. Especially if you can't really figure out why it happened.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:43 pm

Chisamba wrote:
so if i blame myself at the outset, then i am of the mindset to examine what i need to do differently to change the mistake. We learn from fixing our mistakes, that is the whole process of both learning and teaching.

i hope you feel better soon.


Thanks - and yes, I agree, I just wish I knew what mistake I made... :?

Thanks everyone, I do appreciate the comments and suggestions, please keep them coming.

We tacked up yesterday afternoon, and we lunged him both ways, w/t/c, just with his halter and saddle on. Then we bridled him and did double lunge both ways, w/t/c and he was good. It was a good session.

Myself, I had a massage after Tuddy's session, and my therapist could not find any hot spots or triggers, other than the top of the glute where I landed first. Yay! I wouldn't let her work on my neck as it was/is more sore in the front than I am comfortable with - soreness in the front of the neck is a sign of true whiplash and I will be going for x-rays today after I see my chiro. I am sure he will agree to have it done and will call for them.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby kande50 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:34 pm

Tuddy wrote:
Thanks - and yes, I agree, I just wish I knew what mistake I made... :? .


That's the biggest problem. If a bunny ran out or something like that you'd know what triggered it so you could take steps to avoid doing it all over again, but when it seems to have come out of the blue it's hard to think up a good strategy to avoid a next time.

I'd probably only get on in the places he felt the safest for quite some time.

I know that my horse picks up on things in the distance (because he's always looking) and that sets him off, but his reaction is usually to stop and stare before he reacts. I don't always see or hear what he's worried about, but I have seen or heard it enough times to know that it doesn't take much, and it doesn't have to be particularly close to where we are.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Dresseur » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:50 pm

Tuddy. I hope that none of this comes off as rude - I assure you that none of what I'm about to write is meant to be taken that way.

I get the sense from your posts that you are possibly not enough of a leader for Tuddy at this point. You have a deep emotional attachment to him, and I can understand and appreciate that 100%. However, horses that have quick triggers need firm, fair, consistent leaders. Especially ones that have had not great starts.

You mention that he feels like you let him down, horses don't reason like that. They either respect you as a leader, or they don't. With you openly admitting that your confidence is shot. I wonder about your body language, how he is reading you. Do you correct firmly and fairly? Sometimes, even the nicest horses take advantage and test. I can't begin to guess what set him off. It could be a sting, it could be behavior, it could be pain. IF it's behavior - there are typically tells leading up to an explosion like that. They move off the mounting block too quick, they drop their backs or are a little girthy, they fidget off the block, the rider attempts to get up on the ground and twists the saddle in a painful way. Think about any, and I mean any signs that he is anything other than 100% respectful and cued in to you for mounting and if there are any infractions, start correcting.

The other thing is that when you discuss what you do with him, when... there doesn't seem to be much structure. Sometimes he longes, sometimes ground work, sometimes with a bridle, sometimes not... with a horse that I don't trust - I make everything as structured as possible so that the horse knows what to expect. I have a routine and I stick to it to ensure my safety and the safety of the horse. I'm not sure how you longe, but I would be longing with very clear intent and no balking, kicking out, head tossing, bulging out or anything else that means less than 100% attention on the handler. And then I would longe with the rider and follow procedure.

It isn't necessarily fun. And it doesn't leave a ton of room for an overly emotional bond (save that for grooming and the stall for now) - but you have to realize that that he seems (at least to readers following this) to be a reactive, emotional sort of horse, and your emotions are also in play and for now, ONE of you has to leave the reactivity and emotions at the door.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Sue B » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:28 pm

So here's my input, having rehabbed many horses in the past, and therefore having dealt with many a fried brain.

1. Easy to beat yourself up--don't, it isn't helpful. My friend used to say that i spoke about Scotty (the worst rehab I ever worked with) as though he were an abusive husband. You know, get the crap beat out of you and in-between times he's all lovey dovey. You feel like you never know what'll set him off. That horse once launched me so high one day that I broke my hip even though I had plenty of time to flip around and land correctly. :oops: Long story short, he ultimately wound up being an awesome school horse, that I could even place my young son on with complete confidence.

2. Ask your horse's body worker and/or saddle fitter is there's any chance the saddle is hitting his spine or if he has a "kissing" lesion somewhere. Scotty had an old injury that contributed to his explosions though were not the cause of them. He also had 2 neurological conditions, narcolepsy and shivers, both of which were fairly mild but added to his anxiety under saddle for reasons not related to me.

3. You are dealing with the eye thing, so you've got that handled.

4. Expect set backs, rehab is not a straight-line thing and requires years of committed work. Everything you do on the ground will ultimately reward you up in the saddle. If you keep a journal, like you are doing here, you will be able to look back and see the small victories that will keep you going through difficult times.

5. Early on (with all my horses) I do a lot with "clicker" training. My form of ct involves 2 words and lots of treats. The words are "yes" and "no". I attach the word "yes" to the giving of treats and attach "no" to withholding of treats. Most horses learn very quickly. By using "yes" and "no" it is easy to shape behavior provided every tiny step in the right direction is rewarded with "yes'" while inappropriate responses get a "no". Kelo and kande have done a lot more with ct than I have, I use it just as a simple way to establish an ongoing dialogue with the horse. Once he understood it, Scotty loved ct because he got immediate feedback and didn't have to guess if he was on the right track. Laddie, my spook monster, loved it too because it's predictable and he needed everything to be the same every day early on.

6. Scotty was severely abused by a "trainer" starting with the backing process at age 3, ending with him being abandoned in a pasture at age 6. I can't go into details because it hurts my heart too much to think about what he went through. Suffice it to say though, that although it took 6 yrs to make him reliably rideable and another 4 yrs to make him 100% safe, it was worth the struggle to see what an amazing animal he became. My spook monster, Laddie, progressed much faster, going from Intro to 3rd lvl in 9 yrs including a year off for recovery from a spontaneous rectal tear and subsequent surgeries. As long as you start with a horse who WANTS to be with humans and WANTS to please, you can and will go far. :D

7. Dresseur has some excellent points. Being absolutely consistent and predictable is extremely important to these horses.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Ryeissa » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:11 pm

I'm sorry but if my horse did they I would move on. I expect them to adapt to new things and not go balistic.
I would not find this horse enjoyable, and I already have some anxiety and fear so this is not a horse I would keep. Maybe he'd be different in a pro program, a more consistent workload. But too bad, that isn't YOUR life. Sometimes horses just have to match OUR goals, ya know? If they aren't a match then instead of changing your life to accommodate them-- is that really worth it?

In short, I don't think you did ANYTHING wrong.

I'm super super safety aware, so I know that i'm on the weeny side of the spectrum. I just don't need to wonder if the horse is going to do this crap on me.

my horse is pretty spicy but there is none of this.

Could be pain, sure. Its' your call how much you want to chase this road. the older I get, the less I am inclined to fix things that are this serious.

The time you spend chasing a solution could be better spent on a different horse. I know this is not the popular idea, but my time and money are very important, and I can not risk getting hurt. AND ITS NOT FUN.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:12 pm

kande50 wrote:I know that my horse picks up on things in the distance (because he's always looking) and that sets him off, but his reaction is usually to stop and stare before he reacts. I don't always see or hear what he's worried about, but I have seen or heard it enough times to know that it doesn't take much, and it doesn't have to be particularly close to where we are.


Okay - so what did you do when this happened? Do you get off and re-assure? Do you work through it? Did he ever try to do it to just get out of work? If so, how can you tell?

Tuddy can be pushy, and I can tell when he is, that big old shoulder is his middle finger, but when I call him on it, he reacts appropriately, and then there are times, he pushes it further by "getting scared" of everything. And you know, he is pulling that stunt because he couldn't get away with the previous one. Do you know what I mean?

Ryeissa wrote:I expect them to adapt to new things and not go balistic.


Agree - there has to be a point where we have to be able to move to the next step, or be okay with something that wasn't there before without losing their minds. Especially when you have that fragile mind as your priority every time you work them.

Sue B wrote:
Easy to beat yourself up--don't, it isn't helpful. ...

As long as you start with a horse who WANTS to be with humans and WANTS to please, you can and will go far. :D



No, I am trying not to, I feel like an absolute failure at the moment. Tuddy does want to be around people and does want to please, so I am hoping!

Dresseur wrote:
Think about any, and I mean any signs that he is anything other than 100% respectful and cued in to you for mounting and if there are any infractions, start correcting.

But I would be longing with very clear intent and no balking, kicking out, head tossing, bulging out or anything else that means less than 100% attention on the handler. And then I would longe with the rider and follow procedure.

It isn't necessarily fun.


This is where I am going to back track to so I can see from the ground, rebuild our confidence and go from there.

And no, it isn't fun some days, but the good days make up for it tho!

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby kande50 » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:04 pm

Tuddy wrote:
Okay - so what did you do when this happened? Do you get off and re-assure? Do you work through it? Did he ever try to do it to just get out of work? If so, how can you tell?


I believe that my horses are genuinely afraid when they act afraid because 1) they work a lot harder when they're afraid than I've ever worked them, so it's not likely that they're trying to avoid work, and 2) I don't believe that they'd be willing to go to that kind of trouble to avoid the kind of work we do.

So what do I do? Sometimes I get off and get him back to a safe place, sometimes I get off and lunge him, sometimes I get off and tie the reins to the saddle and leave him and let him look and run around until he's seen enough, and sometimes I stay on and just push him a little harder and he goes along with it. It just depends on where we are and how afraid he is.

As he's matured he's much more likely to be able to keep working even when he sees something he wants to avoid, and then is able to approach it much sooner than he would have been able to when he was younger. So in spite of my lack of "leadership", he's gained confidence.

Tuddy can be pushy, and I can tell when he is, that big old shoulder is his middle finger, but when I call him on it, he reacts appropriately, and then there are times, he pushes it further by "getting scared" of everything. And you know, he is pulling that stunt because he couldn't get away with the previous one. Do you know what I mean?


Another way to look at it is that he told you politely that he was afraid and you didn't hear him so he spoke up. Personally, I don't think they're actually trying to tell us anything because they're too busy trying to cope with the situation they're in. They know that they're somewhat compromised by our presence because we have ways to put pressure on them that prevents them from being able to escape as easily, so they try to get along until they become afraid enough that they can't.

I have no idea whether my interpretation is any more accurate than anyone else's, but that's how I see it.

I think we tend to trivialize their fears because we're not afraid of what they're afraid of, but at the same time we don't find our own fears (of coming off, or getting run over) anywhere near as trivial. :-)

Agree - there has to be a point where we have to be able to move to the next step, or be okay with something that wasn't there before without losing their minds. Especially when you have that fragile mind as your priority every time you work them.


If we're unwilling to give them the time and exposure they need to overcome their fears then we need to become better, stronger riders so that we can ride through their reactions, because AFAIK, there's no magical way to make them just get over it.

No, I am trying not to, I feel like an absolute failure at the moment. Tuddy does want to be around people and does want to please, so I am hoping!


I'd look at it as a blip rather than a failure. This stuff happens, and no one got seriously hurt so the only reason I can see to interrupt the program would be to try to figure out what happened. And it sounds like that's exactly what you're working on.

This is where I am going to back track to so I can see from the ground, rebuild our confidence and go from there.

And no, it isn't fun some days, but the good days make up for it tho!


What I was after in the beginning were lots of good sessions, because I knew that the more good ones I had before I had a bad one, the easier it would be to "get over" the bad one. And that's just what happened.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Quelah » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:40 pm

I'm so sorry you got so badly flung. I hope nothing is broken. It may simply be that he is not the right horse for you, there's no shame in that. It may be that you need to put him in professional training with someone who is good at getting young horses "broke", there's no shame in that either. I've sold a horse that wasn't my kind of ride (Prada, the buckskin Iberian cowpony, if he was a dog I would have kept him but he was not my kind of ride) and I *always* send my young horses out for 3-4 month to a pro to get started under saddle. It's kind of a normal thing to do ;)

A question, just cause I'm curious and keep meaning to ask, why do you refer to him as The Warhorse? I've only heard that term applied to OTTBs who had run a lot of races over a long period of time.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Quelah » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:43 pm

One more question, why did your friend need to help you get on? Do you have a previous injury or?

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:59 am

Nope, nothing broken. Thankfully. Actually, my massage and chiro both were very surprised at how well I came out of it. Lol! I did precautionary x-rays today, but I think they will come back clean.

I've always had a helper getting on. Its more of a barn courtesy where I am at as the helper was more or less there to move the mounting block out of the way after mounting up, so they might as well hold the horse while they were there. Just a thing I guess. I really have no other explanation other than that. Lol!

As for the warhorse handle... as soon as that movie 'Warhorse' came out, friends and family started calling him that because of his presence and the matching Bay color. Just a nickname that stuck.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Quelah » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:26 pm

Well, feel free to disregard, because unsolicited advice is just that, but I feel I would be remiss if I DIDN"T say this so I am going to strongly suggest that you send him out to get broke, cause he's not. Not enough for you anyway. I don't mean send him out to get "bro-ken", but send him out to someone who starts young horses and makes them into reliable citizens, and plan on sending him out for 3-4 months minimum, because he's going to take more time than a never sat on baby since he's mature in his ways and has quite a few naughty/spoiled behaviors established.

And this is not a racehorse that is used to being mounted somewhat on the move with a groom at his head and someone legging up the jock. This is (or you hope he can become) and amateur rider's pleasure horse. Having someone at his head when you get on and moving the mounting block away is just foolishness. If he won't STAND for you to get on and then quietly move his own self away from the mounting block, well if he can't do that, you probably shouldn't get on since it's likely the rest of the ride isn't going to go well at some point.

So that's my tough love advice, you got lucky this time with nothing broken, next time (and there will be one if you don't change what you're doing) you might not be so lucky.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:43 pm

Thanks for the advice Quelah. It's all good.

Eye update - Tuddy had his exam on Friday and he has pin point cataracts in the left eye and a stretch mark that indicated the start of glaucoma. I emailed the breeder that I purchased him from to see if there are any horses of theirs that have glaucoma as well as it is hereditary. The specialist is hoping the stretch mark is just a result of a pressure change, but we re-check in 6 to 8 months. Visually, he is fine.

We (trainer and I) have been starting back at the ground with him, and going from there.

Honestly, I don't have any more mojo at the moment. I just want to pack it in and grab my old Billy Cook and become a ditch rider like I was when I was a kid. Push the odd cow for sh&ts and giggles.

I was auditing a horsemanship clinic this weekend at an arena close to home, man, that old cowboy had those folks working. He'd get, not mad but loud I guess, at some of those participants - Get off that horses face! Wanna know why that horse bucks you off - because yer so damn critical! Reward the try, not the outcome!

Anywho, not much of an update really, just plunking along.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:34 pm

Had a good session last night, just me and the big boy.

I worked on just some NH stuff that I dug out of the mental filing cabinet on the ground first. Simple leading by asking him to stay with me and not have me "drag" him. Then standing having him focus his attention on me and not what was around him. Asking him to drop his head by applying pressure at the poll and really focusing on my timing when he started to give me the try. Every time he was distracted by something, I would apply pressure and wait for him to release. Didn't take him long to remember that.

Attached the lunge line and away we went w/t/c with the plan to keep his focus on me and not anything going on. He did fine and did try to push that big shoulder of his into me a few times where it was met with the lunge whip flicking at it to get him to move it out away from me. A few times and all it would take was me pointing it at his shoulder. If he got distracted and tried to look to the outside of the circle, I just tipped his head in gently and asked for a more forward movement - my intent was to get him to keep his attention on me and not what was going on around him.

His girlfriend came into the arena and he got tense and was going to call at her, but I just asked for the release of the poll when his head got high. He dropped his head, let out a big snuffle and then started chewing.

While the other rider was warming up her horse, I had Tuddy stand there and just keep his attention on me. If he moved his head to look at her, I just tipped his head towards me. Or if he moved into me for a cuddle, I asked him to move back and just stay there. If he moved back, I moved him forward.

I never talked to him except to say walk on, trot or can-TER. I never pet him unless it was to rub his neck when he did something good or his forehead when he tipped his head toward me. I just tried to remember to reward the try.

In the end we had lots of chewing, lots of yawning and lots of air blowing out. Hoping I did something right.

Today's intention is to try my western saddle on him. I really hope it fits. Massage therapist had said that his withers were really tight when she worked on him on Saturday. He also had a tight glute on the left side.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:58 pm

Been a while since I updated. We have just gone back to the basics of ground work. We are doing okay.

Image taken from that photoshoot day - about 5 minutes before he piled me... :oops:
(photo credit @Ewa Lee Equine Photography)

Photo shoot image12.jpg
Photo shoot image12.jpg (160.79 KiB) Viewed 25737 times


And here is one I took last night.

Sept 6 2016 1.png
Sept 6 2016 1.png (215.81 KiB) Viewed 25737 times


After reading the difficult horse thread, I would have to say that my issues with him are not as bad as I first thought of. A lot of you have gone through some tough times which keeps me motivated to keep going.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:29 pm

Quelah wrote:So that's my tough love advice, you got lucky this time with nothing broken, next time (and there will be one if you don't change what you're doing) you might not be so lucky.


This x 100. I'm glad you are okay, Tuddy, but I fear that you do not realize the scale of the problem at hand or have adequate resources for addressing it (ex. trainer may not be the right one or the right scale of training for Tuddy's needs).

Be smart---remember, you have the bigger brain, not Tuddy.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:15 pm

[quote="piedmontfieldsTuddy, but I fear that you do not realize the scale of the problem at hand or have adequate resources for addressing it (ex. trainer may not be the right one or the right scale of training for Tuddy's needs).
[/quote]

I had a whole reply, hit submit and it asked me to log in again... damn it. Must have timed out.

Gist of it -

Yes, I am aware of the scale of the problem. I messed this horse up royally, need a miracle worker to save him. Hi, my name is Tuddy and I am a failure of horseperson for this horse. There I admitted it.

Thanks for listening and thanks for the input, please know that it is appreciated.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby piedmontfields » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:52 pm

I think you are getting the vibe that we truly wish you and beautiful Tuddy well :-)

I also think a number of us are suggesting turning away from self-blame ("I messed this horse up") to analysis ("what does this horse need?").

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Flight » Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:53 pm

Lovely photos!!
Don't be blaming yourself, just be careful and learn to analyse your horse and the situation before progressing to the next steps. Which it sounds like you are doing. The difficult horses can be amazing trainers for us, but always at a risk.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:42 pm

Hi,

I haven't had much of an update for you because, well, haven't really done much. Last time I posted, my daughter went back to school and she her extra curricular activities have me driving all over the country 3 days a week, my father in law is back in hospital and our farm is just a swamp with this endless rain, so getting the corrals ready for winter for the cows and other farm work has been absolute fight to say the least. The weather has been awful and I think winter is on its way.

I WILL WARN YOU NOW - IF YOU ARE NOT INTO ENERGY HEALING OR INTUITIVE SESSIONS STOP READING NOW!

I've worked Tuddy a bit, but deep down, I still feel that something is wrong. A friend of mine, who is an energy worker, was out on the weekend, and we did an hour session on Tuddy.

At the end of his session, she confirmed what I had gut feelings about.

1. He still cannot decipher shadows and changes of light. He can see, he just has difficulty processing.
2. His back is absolutely locked up and cold. The main contributing reason he piled me. The lady working on him is also a massage therapist but Tuddy didn't even want to be touched let alone worked on in the back area. Everywhere else, just not the back.
3. Dressage is not his thing. When he was working, he didn't mind it, but finds it boring. Needs something a little more stimulating.
4. Magnesium to be added to the diet to help with the muscle relaxation and anxiety.
5. He wants to come home, he doesn't like where he is, it's getting to the point where he is becoming depressed.
6. We are soul mates, the absolute definition of heart person-heart horse. So much so, that he gets insulted when I pay attention to other horses and people.

This lady worked on 5 horses and a dog and it was amazing to see each animals reaction to her. The one horse had a swollen leg, and the minute she put her hands on the sore leg, the mare relaxed that leg, started yawning and chewing and then fell asleep. Another mare wouldn't settle down, so she did an grounding exercise with her and she was putty in her hands at the end. One gelding has serious poll issue (probably a pull back incident) and by the end, he was putting his head under her hand for more attention. Like dog that wants a person to pet it.

Anywho, as for Tuddy and I, I have homework to get that back loosened up with some heat therapy, give him some magnesium and really start looking for a good saddle that will fit. I have decided to keep him at the boarding barn for another month, and then he has another session at the end of November and then we will go from there. I may bring him home, but I can get him feeling better physically, he may come out of his depression a bit (hopefully, I do too) and we may stay there, or I may bring him home for the winter where I can fret over him from my own yard.

A day at a time I guess.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby kande50 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:01 pm

Tuddy wrote:2. His back is absolutely locked up and cold. The main contributing reason he piled me. The lady working on him is also a massage therapist but Tuddy didn't even want to be touched let alone worked on in the back area. Everywhere else, just not the back.


A friend, who is a massage therapist, has a horse she raised that has some kind of a wither/back issue, and when he's not comfortable it's the same thing: he doesn't want anyone to touch that area with their hands, or a soft brush.

It's the oddest thing, because it comes and goes and no one has been able to figure out what the problem is. The horse is 12 now and she's pursued quite a few possibilities (Lyme among them), but hasn't come up with anything, yet.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby vkitty » Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:24 am

I hope you get him more comfortable and develop a routine that makes you both happy.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:51 pm

Thank you vkitty! And kande50 - pm'd you with some info about your friend's horse.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby demi » Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:23 pm

I agree with Vkitty, I sure hope you get him figured out. Just take your time and enjoy the good moments....that's what Im doing!

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:34 pm

Thanks demi. We are taking it slow and steady. He is such a star. He was following me when I had to leave the other day. Busted my heart.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Ryeissa » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:46 pm

sent you a PM!

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:52 pm

Dug out the ground poles. 10 minutes of work total. I had fun considering I had never done this before on my own. He was a trooper.

He had the mental drool coming out of his mouth at the end so I hope I did something right.

https://youtu.be/eLEyGs45CKQ

Yeah, it echos in that arena... sorry! It sounds louder than it really is.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Ryeissa » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:33 pm

Nice work! he looks very relaxed and focused.

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby vkitty » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:43 am

Agreed! :)

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Tuddy » Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:07 pm

He had another session with his therapist yesterday, and he is on the right track healing wise. Back is better, I saddled him up the other day lunged him and he was good. He gave one buck but that was a tack issue that I resolved and he was good.

We are going home.

Have been toying with the idea for a while now, and yesterday confirmed it. I am okay with it, more than ok with it actually. I gave my 30 days so sometime this month I will go and get him. Winter is supposed to hit this week with a bunch of snow, so once that is over and done with, I'll go get him.

Maybe we will be back in 2017, until then, you will just get flooded with pictures of my horses back at the funny farm! LOL!

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Re: The Warhorse - the Tale of Tuddy

Postby Moutaineer » Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:43 am

I think it's a wise move to take the winter to regroup, and see how you both feel in the spring. It's nice having them home, too :) And yes, pictures!


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