Horse locks/tightens jaw.

[Brydie]

This is Red's evasion to bending through the rib cage and using himself correctly. He just doesn't want to give with his jaw. He still feels very laterally stiff but is improving from where he was in October.

The things we've been working in with our instructor is improving the quality of his gaits a lot but I find this issue pretty frustrating at times! She helped us today by walking beside us her holding the reins and me using a lot of leg to get him to soften which made him better than he was once I took the reins back.

Does anyone have any experience with this or advice to help us with this?

[Kathy Johnson]

Sometimes tightness in the jaw and other mouth issues are actually symptoms of back pain or hind leg issues. But sometimes the horse is simply not accepting the snaffle. So I think your coach is on the right track starting on the ground, with work in hand.

Here are some basic exercises you can try. There are many ways to do this, and this is by no means the only way to soften the jaw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpGb2ghgW8s&index=3&list=PLebO711kaEdhvYDSThojBFDMqT7VOMgHX

[galopp]

Work in hand for such horses is very useful, they do not know how to reponsd proper to the bit, so they are defensive. Start by lifting bthe bit in the mouth (toward the ears), lightly, and perhaps intially very high, until the horse chews. Relax, repeat. Even give treats. (Notice that when the horse does this it will usually start to stand more squared and balanced. (Even back a few steps, and reward). NO longtiudinal flexion allowed yet, just 'tasting the bit'/mobilizing the jaw (otherwise they will flex behind the atlas/axis, close the throatlatch, drop the head). Always allow relaxation immediatley (PRESUME the horse will respond to your vibrations) and drop the reins after you do this a few times, usually the horse will relax/lengthen, and look for contact.

Once the horse does this, then ask for lateral flexability (in millimeters, only at the atlas/axis), ask/allow (in a high(er)position), immediatley reward. Then allow the horse to 'chew the reins from the hand' while in position. They will learn that they have an open door. (And the bit must NOT act backward, on the bars, but only in the corners of the lips).

Then start work whole arena, lightly in position, but evenly into both hands. Each corner is three bending strides. Initially it is through a use of and opening/leading rein, then counter bended with neck/bearing rein in some corners. Then both start to work in unison. Rmember that EVERY corner has the inside leg come a little forward (nearer the girth, perhaps pulsing or stirrup stepping) and outside leg is stretched down and back).

Every corner or circle is asking to the horse for lateral flexibility lightly (inside hand is perhaps little a few millimeters--or more initially), but ideally just the 'key in the lock', never more bending that can be uniform. It is initially easier in walk on a smaller circle, and in trot on 20m circles. Remember changes of flexion laterally (in millimeters) preceeds changes of bend (which originate in the positioning of the legs).

[Flight]

I've got this problem too, it's come out now that I'm asking for more. Be careful that you're not holding or hanging on too much so they can lock onto the bit and be defensive. It's hard not to sometimes.

I've started doing the stuff Galopp has outlined. I've had to go back a good few steps to help this problem before I could continue on. Dressage, love it hey!

[Brydie]

Thanks! Will give these a go tonight/tomorrow. Temps will be very high so some light in hand work is probably all we can do.

[ProudHorse]

When your horse's body is supple and straight, it wont lock and tighten the jaw. This is why the mouth come last. Your horse is not resisting and he is not bending simply because he is crooked and he physically cannot give anymore than he does. What happens when this is not understood and riders and trainers insist on making horses bend is that the crookedness moves as the horse compensates. You also wont make a horse more bendable by trying to make it bend more. That only makes them sore and stiffer.

There was a threat about this a while back and the advice was to learn how to develop a straight horse with two halves that work evenly and regularly. Its worth looking at.

[Chisamba]

Proud horse brought up something I wanted to mention. All the chewy mouth exercises in the world are not going to give your horse the strength it neads to be straight, balanced and ambidextrous, which takes time to develop. You will need to do both.

[Brydie]

After some in hand work on Wednesday night I honestly don't think he quite understood what I was asking of him/could do what I was asking. His left side has always been a lot worse than his right side. After a few minutes he was giving nicely of both sides at the halt (he got lots of pats/scratches the first time and after that he was like yup I got this!).

He has always been fine with light contact - it's when I take up a firm "working" contact and ask him to WORK where he starts tightening through his jaw.

[Flight]

It's such a hard subject to describe/explain on the internet. I've just had a couple of lessons with a different instructor, who has quite a different method to what I'm used to. It's really changing how I think of things.
Basically what Proudhorse says. Now that you're asking more work, it's harder so he will resist. So, it's from this point on that you choose which way you approach it. Sounds like you are doing what I would do though. Start small, ask for a little bit and then when he has that, add a little bit more and so on.

[kande50]

Now that you're asking more work, it's harder so he will resist. So, it's from this point on that you choose which way you approach it. Sounds like you are doing what I would do though. Start small, ask for a little bit and then when he has that, add a little bit more and so on.

Agree. We only have to "ask" for a little bit more than what the horse is able to give to create resistance. So if the horse starts out resistant, then we started out by pushing for too much, and if he became resistant then we tried to progress too fast (too much, too soon).

It's the reason we so often read that if the horse says no to our requests then we need go back to where he can say yes and then proceed at the rate at which he can continue to say yes.

I think the reasons trainers tend to forget this simple idea is because they think the horse should be able to do what they're pushing him to do, and just can't believe that he can't, and that pushing harder won't get what they want.

[galopp]

Working hard should not cause resistance, being ridden out of balance or for too long w/o a rest might. That said, if the rider is 'changing the sign posts' which have existed for long period of time, it might necessitate clear half halts, erc. If the horse is saying no, then the rider needs to ask differently (different timing/less duration/etc), it is our problem to solve.

[Kathy Johnson]

It's a classical balance before forward or forward before balance debate! Yay! This is actually an easy one. It depends on the horse. The French, who rode hotter, lighter horses with more TB in them--balance before forward. They had plenty of forward. Work in hand. The Germans rode heavier, slower warmbloods. Forward before balance. Forward first, more leg.

Ponyo for instance is a speedy, light, forward pony and responded well to work in hand.

Similar phrases are "calm, straight, forward," French, and "forward first," German. The French horses were hot, so calm was first. The German horses were colder blooded, so forward first.

[Flight]

Ohhh thats interesting Kathy!
My usual instructor is more German training, so my colder blooded horse it's been fwd and energy needed. This different guy is more about balance/suppleness/straightness. I never realised the reasoning behind the difference.

You don't reckon they resist a bit when you start upping the work? I find it a little whether it's in the contact or falling in or out. Maybe it's the better riders with better timing and feel can avoid that happening.

[ProudHorse]

"it's harder so he will resist." If the body has been conditioned and is able to accommodate greater angles the horse will not resist. Riders perceive as resistance something the horse has NO CONTROL over, namely his physical condition. If a horse is not straight ie even in its musculature he will not be able to use himself equally to the left and to the right. What happens inevitably is that as they are ask to contort what is not bendable they compensate and usually what is seen in lateral movements are neck ins and quarters chasing. First step is to work on suppleness and straightness.

[Flight]

Yes true, you have to set them up for the 'harder' work, but you have to start somewhere.

[Brydie]

This is really interesting. I'm VERY new to dressage (started lessons in October last year) so I basically go by what my instructor says.

This makes real sense though. We're only at prelim so I don't think the work should be that hard but thinking about it he had 4 years of little to no work, then a year+ of being ridden quite long and not really asked to "work". It's a lot worse on his stiffer side so I guess as we work on suppling that side it won't be an issue. Instructor has suggested working a lot in shoulder-fore to help with suppleness.

[Flight]

It will come good, and when she's more supple you'll find she probably wont be stiff in her jaw

[Chisamba]

I do not think this has anything to do with forward or balance. Both have the same goal of equilateral suppleness. Thus has a lot more to do with the current fashion of training horses to give in the neck through longitudinal flexion before lateral bend/flexion have been established. It is also a byproduct of working long and low without getting a horse ready to accept the weight of the rider in an uphill carriage.

However, the jaw is , in some horses, the key to working the hind end, lot of horses loosening the jaw is a key to allowing the back and hind end to work freely. Most often the horse is locking the jaw because it is too low and round.

Stretch to the bridle should be the end product of good connection and a supple jaw. The next step in training is no more difficult than three previous step if approached correctly, regardless of your initial approach.

There does seem to be a way to get horses to the high levels after forcing them down and behind in the neck, I just do not know how, so I can only givethe directions that I am experienced with.

[Koolkat]

He has always been fine with light contact - it's when I take up a firm "working" contact and ask him to WORK where he starts tightening through his jaw.

This is what leaped out at me. And that you had been learning about dressage since October. . .

The horse may be locking his jaw to protect his mouth. The horse should be reaching over his topline to the bit (which you tactfully offer to him). It's natural for horses to be stiffer on one side than the other, like us, they are right handed and left handed. But you should be leaving his front end alone for the most part (unless he's doing stuff like tossing his head in your face, etc.), with just a pleasant, conversational connection to his mouth. He will "connect" to your hands (and you will know it when you FEEL it - it's not about WEIGHT) when he has the strength to come over his topline and he is relaxed so the energy can flow freely. Not all horses are happy with FIRM contact, and that's OK. TTT=things take time. The horse will become "rounder" as he gains strength and can step under and carry the weight, the front end roundness reflects the back end roundness.

[Brydie]

Now that you're asking more work, it's harder so he will resist. So, it's from this point on that you choose which way you approach it. Sounds like you are doing what I would do though. Start small, ask for a little bit and then when he has that, add a little bit more and so on.

Agree. We only have to "ask" for a little bit more than what the horse is able to give to create resistance. So if the horse starts out resistant, then we started out by pushing for too much, and if he became resistant then we tried to progress too fast (too much, too soon).

It's the reason we so often read that if the horse says no to our requests then we need go back to where he can say yes and then proceed at the rate at which he can continue to say yes.

I think the reasons trainers tend to forget this simple idea is because they think the horse should be able to do what they're pushing him to do, and just can't believe that he can't, and that pushing harder won't get what they want.

This seems to be the key! Had a nice ride tonight, part way through he tightened the jaw so I said 'ok' and let him become a little longer and poof the tightness was gone. He's obviously telling me something! Thinking like this also really helped our upwards transitions (where his nose usually comes up)... Let him be a little longer and had nice round upwards transitions! Guess he's not quite strong enough to maintain the position we're asking him to be in right now.

[nightlace]

Lots of good insights & observations. One of my horses used to lock his jaw and demand to go faster. What worked for him was combing the inside rein. He softened very quickly, lengthened his stride, and became straighter. I think it was effective for him because he had nothing to brace against. And, of course, I couldn't give him anything to brace against while I was combing the inside rein. Combing the inside rein was a real break-through for this horse.

[demi]

This seems to be the key! Had a nice ride tonight, part way through he tightened the jaw so I said 'ok' and let him become a little longer and poof the tightness was gone. He's obviously telling me something! Thinking like this also really helped our upwards transitions (where his nose usually comes up)... Let him be a little longer and had nice round upwards transitions! Guess he's not quite strong enough to maintain the position we're asking him to be in right now.

Sounds like you are figuring this out. Good for you!

[Bats79]

If you look at Brydie's photos in the "progression" thread (they are GREAT photos Brydie you are doing very well) there is a clear indication that Red does have some weakness behind and difficulty in activating and carrying his front.

If you "push" him into the hand to create more collection his natural posture is going to be to brace and go harder in your hand. I think this type of horse needs to be really "enabled" to lift and carry through careful and systematic lateral work.

Starting with the exercises in-hand that gallop discussed and then getting the feel for them under saddle, all the while looking at enabling and strenghtening his ability and willingness to lift himself not just push forward.