Black day at Jersey Fresh

[Chisamba]

http://eventingnation.com/philippa-hump ... sey-fresh/

In a separate incident. , Skyler Decker’s horse, 8-year-old gelding Inoui Van Bost, suffered a fatal injury after a fall on course.

That have started a college fund for Phillipa's six month old daughter.

[Josette]

http://www.nj.com/monmouth/index.ssf/20 ... esh_i.html

[Kyra's Mom]

.

Huge jingles for her family.

Susan

[PaulaO]

Oh crap. My condolences to Phillipa's family.

[Kelo]

This just makes me sick. That poor baby girl has to grow up without her mother; this is the THIRD human death (and who knows how many horses) in this sport in just a few months' time.

[Josette]

Kelo - I totally agree and believe many others feel the same. I read some comments about this terrible tragedy on the other board. IMO - these courses are suppose to be challenging but should NOT be so extreme that riders and horses are killed riding them.

[Chisamba]

Kelo - I totally agree and believe many others feel the same. I read some comments about this terrible tragedy on the other board. IMO - these courses are suppose to be challenging but should NOT be so extreme that riders and horses are killed riding them.

Apparently it was not a problematic jump. No one else had a problem there all day.

I admit to feeling that perhaps one could wait till ones baby was older than six months before going back to upper level eventing.

I particularly hate the blog that had been going around glorifying dying on course and comparing it to dying if cancer.

[boots-aregard]

Yes, I heard it was "just" a table, which is a pretty straightforward obstacle. ( Wasn't there. Have no comment on the approach which can indeed make a world of difference. But nothing I've seen actually blames the fence.)

Sometimes the 'cause' is obvious, sometimes it's a result of a combination of factors, and sometimes there's no obvious explanation at all. The outcome is very sad.

[Koolkat]

I particularly hate the blog that had been going around glorifying dying on course and comparing it to dying if cancer.

I appreciate the fact that I'm seeing this out of context, but having watched my 45 year old sister die of breast cancer, and then see her 21 year old son die of liver cancer 3 years later, I can assure anyone reading this that there is no glory in dying of cancer. The bravery of the human spirit in the face of certain death can be noble and humbling to those of us who witness it, but there is no glory in being devoured alive by cancer. It is highly offensive that anyone would make an analogy like this in a sport that they chose to participate in vs. being struck down by the cruel randomness of cancer.

[Ponichiwa]

Is this the blog in question?
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/left-left

I also had a bad taste in my mouth after reading that.

[Chancellor]

Kelo - I totally agree and believe many others feel the same. I read some comments about this terrible tragedy on the other board. IMO - these courses are suppose to be challenging but should NOT be so extreme that riders and horses are killed riding them.

Apparently it was not a problematic jump. No one else had a problem there all day.

I admit to feeling that perhaps one could wait till ones baby was older than six months before going back to upper level eventing.

I particularly hate the blog that had been going around glorifying dying on course and comparing it to dying if cancer.

If you baby is 4 does it make it any easier on losing his/her mom? 10? 15? There is no good time to lose one's mother. So, I'm not sure how long would be a reasonable wait.
As for challenging courses, ANYTIME we put solid fences down and ride at high speed there is risk to both human and horse. There is risk in life. FAR more people die in car accidents than on horses.

This is a tragedy, yes. But it is just that. A tragedy.
The event pony Teddy ran around Rolex and died in a tragic accident running back to the barn and falling on his home turf. Another tragedy.

Eventing is taking great steps to make the sport safer. Are they doing enough? I don't know. But there will always be an element of risk.

[Chancellor]

Is this the blog in question?
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/left-left

I also had a bad taste in my mouth after reading that.

Really? I don't understand why. I think she saw a family member die and die slowly because of chemo.
She says she would prefer not to go that way. I agree with her. I don't think she likens dying of cancer to dying on course. Just that she would prefer to go doing something she loves. Not dying a slow death feeling sick every day.

[Ponichiwa]

That's fair. My read on it was a bit different, as my reaction was: Why on earth would anyone advocate for dying in a very public way (Rolex, cutting off Jung) right after the eventing community lost someone?

I know the point she was trying to make isn't what I got out of it. But that's how it struck me.

[Racetrackreject]

Table jumps are problematic, period. They've tried to make them safer by mandating that the back of the table must measure higher than the front so that the horse can actually see that it's a large spread, but it's not really enough.

One study on fence design safety recommended that tables be no deeper than 2 meters, but nothing in the rules about it. Also, there is a design and prototype for a collapsible table, using a similar system to the frangible pin, but it's been out for years now and the USEA/USEF pretty much poopoo'd the idea. I've seen it, it's brilliant.

[Kelo]

If you baby is 4 does it make it any easier on losing his/her mom? 10? 15? There is no good time to lose one's mother. So, I'm not sure how long would be a reasonable wait.
As for challenging courses, ANYTIME we put solid fences down and ride at high speed there is risk to both human and horse. There is risk in life. FAR more people die in car accidents than on horses.

This is a tragedy, yes. But it is just that. A tragedy.

No, not at 4. No, not at 10. No, not at 15. There are no good times to lose one's mother. And there's no good time to lose your child, either, yet two families are struggling with that at this very moment, due to these simple tragedies.

These arguments come out every time - *of course* there is assumed risk. *Of course* there are random accidents. *Of course* everyone has to die somehow. But that baby is still motherless. Those parents are still childless.

Losing three people in three months-- not even counting equine loss -- is too much risk. Too much tragedy. Too much random accidents.

Just shrugging and saying they knew the risks, they died doing what they loved, at least it wasn't cancer, it could've been a car accident is missing the point. One death is an accidental tragedy. An average of 2.7 deaths per year (according to a report I found) means eventing isn't doing enough to prevent this. There is research on what would make the sport safer, and that research has not been implemented to its fullest extent.

[Chancellor]

Kelo, I agree with you that they could do MORE to make the sport SAFER. We agree on that point. But, I also think that since we have a more connected world, the tragedies get more press. So, for instance, when Rolex first went to a four star event WAAYY back in 2000, would we have even known about the event rider in Australia that died (I am assuming that she is one of the deaths you are talking about).

[WheresMyWhite]

Kelo, I agree with you that they could do MORE to make the sport SAFER. We agree on that point. But, I also think that since we have a more connected world, the tragedies get more press. So, for instance, when Rolex first went to a four star event WAAYY back in 2000, would we have even known about the event rider in Australia that died (I am assuming that she is one of the deaths you are talking about).

Both these points along with knowing life is full of risk. If a person feels eventing it too risky, then don't participate.

Yes, work should continue to understand why falls happen and riders and horses die. As things are learned, continue to make the sport safer but, within reason, not "dumbing down" the course so there is no challenge. IMHO, the riders and the horses are a team and like the challenge and adrenalin rush from a well ridden challenging course.

And perhaps cliche but remember, there is only one thing in life one MUST do and that is die. Everything else is a choice and accept the consequences of each choice.

At some point, individuals must assume some of the risk of living and make choices accordingly without someone else making all the assumptions for them.

[Chisamba]

That's fair. My read on it was a bit different, as my reaction was: Why on earth would anyone advocate for dying in a very public way (Rolex, cutting off Jung) right after the eventing community lost someone?

I know the point she was trying to make isn't what I got out of it. But that's how it struck me.

Exactly, such a selfish thought with no concern for.those who.love you or the risk to the horse.

Belittling about her uncle and other cancer patients.

[Chisamba]

Eventing and horse racing are sports where the person chooses to risk their animals life daily. And yet dressage is under attack for using.nosebands.

If u want to do an extreme sport, there is no need to do it on a live animal.

[kande50]

Eventing and horse racing are sports where the person chooses to risk their animals life daily. And yet dressage is under attack for using.nosebands.

I think it's a slippery slope to try to justify any kind of dubious practice by comparing it to worse.

[Sue B]

Wow this thread took a weird turn!

[kande50]

Wow this thread took a weird turn!

You can't see any connection between horses' welfare and safety?

[chantal]

I didn't interpret the blogger as glorifying dying on course. Just looking for an up side of a terrible tragedy. In her experience, this was the up side. Nothing glorious about it.

I think these tragedies bring out strong emotions in many of us and we all respond according to our experiences.

I can't stop thinking about it, it makes me sad. I never knew, I'm not an eventer now, though I did in pony club, but gosh, it's terrible.

[Alex]

I haven't read anything about the fence other than it was a table so I know nothing about the line Humphreys' took or how well her horse was holding up at that point on course. It does nothing for me to compare deaths from natural causes and how protracted they are vs what would have been an extremely terrifying tumble followed by instantaneously being knocked out. To me, what's important is that OTHER riders who are still alive learn from someone's fatal fall. This information and analysis should be done regardless of whether that involves assigning blame to the course design/designer or the horse or the dead rider. There is only so much that can be done to make XC fences safer. Breakaway fences are only partly a solution because as they break apart they present other types of dangers to horse and rider. Have we finally turned at least a little bit away from some of the SJ style combinations? Not enough as far as I'm concerned and we seem to have replaced those SJ combinations w/narrow fronted arrow oxers. This is an endless debate but it has to be talked over until we figure out ways and means of preventing deaths of rider and horse.

[galopp]

Anyone who is interested, read what event riders like Denny Emersen have to say (who have 60+ years in the sport, or kim, or etc). I think he is about given up, but he has stated the obvious repeatedly. This is not about frangible pins, which actually can allow a horse to become more sloppy, and tables are not the problem either. There has rarely been such problems before the long format was abandoned. Why? The speed was tested in the steeplechase (where they also learned what kind of fences to jump over and what to jump through--efficiency), the endurance and fitness in roads and tracks. And xc was a teach a different kind of jumping that stadium. And dressage was about improved balance, lightness, and rateability (not preciptious flexion). The solutions lie in those things. Or in having higher qualifying standards for spending time in cavelettis, learning different types of bascules, and greater depth in fitness (vs speed), and more esp in balance on the flat.

THe problems start when horses jump at speed over xc fences from long spots, have been ridden more bitted and against the riders (who are now often standing and/or posting the canter); the horses tire, they over jump (like a stadium fence)which is a recipe for disaster. (If we look at Jung (now winners of the 'grand slam'), he is a return to reasoned riding, it should be a wake up.)

[PhoenixRising]

This popped up on my FB feed. Not too far from me, and it made me think of this thread.
I'm personally of the opinion that if something bad is going to happen, its going to happen one way or another.
NOT to say that we shouldn't be making every attempt to make things safer, but I still cant imagine how anyone could have seen this coming.

http://921news.com/young-girl-badly-inj ... adrian-mo/