Clicker Training with Horses...anyone doing/done it?

[fergusnc]

I ordered two books by Alexandra Kurland, with plans to try with Dallas The Rescue Pony. Has anyone done much of this with any of their horses? My only (very limited) experience is a fun class with one of my dogs.

Dallas is so smart, catches on quickly but does well with time to think on things, is super curious, but can be spooky/unsure. He is making huge progress with learning to look to me for feedback, but is still on the "every man for himself" team when things get scary. He needs help gaining confidence, and learning about a human-horse relationship. Based on what I have heard from a friend who does Clicker with one of her more sensitive horses, I thought it could be a fun technique to incorporate into our process.

[kande50]

I ordered two books by Alexandra Kurland, with plans to try with Dallas The Rescue Pony. Has anyone done much of this with any of their horses? My only (very limited) experience is a fun class with one of my dogs.

It's very similar to clicker training dogs, except mugging isn't such an issue with them. Not that mugging needs to be an issue with horses, but it's not a bad idea to be aware of it because horses can come up with a lot of different ways to mug.

Based on what I have heard from a friend who does Clicker with one of her more sensitive horses, I thought it could be a fun technique to incorporate into our process.

I found it so interesting that I stopped doing much pressure and release training for a long time because I was having a lot more fun learning how to clicker training.

[Racetrackreject]

My friend and I started doing it with her horse, and it was going well until he started showing "superstitious behavior"- the treat is coming from this person, not from the behavior- so we had to revert back to the beginning stages and never really took the time to progress again. My friend's gelding was a very smart horse and I think those types are the harder ones to work with. They are always thinking and trying to think their way around things, so you have to be extra careful not to create loopholes or unintentional behaviors.

[Koolkat]

I have a gelding who doesn't accept corrections very well (he's very closely related to J Taft's Tessa). I found clicker training (although I didn't use a clicker, just good boy) to work extremely well with him. All sorts of training to avoid "confrontation", like dealing with his food aggressiveness by teaching him to turn his head away from you when you fed him, etc. Interestingly enough, the fewer confrontations we had, the fewer confrontations we had. . . it seemed to help reshape his view of the world.

[OmegaMare]

I started with Clicker training then went on to something similar (Kayce Cover's SATS program).
This was all a game-changer for me and my horses. Horses become more confident. I get the impression they start thinking everything is a set-up, by me, where they will have the opportunity to earn rewards.
I've also been able to conduct some interesting experiments exploring equine intelligence, getting results I would never have anticipated.
Have fun. If you make a mistake, you can fix it.

[kande50]

Have fun. If you make a mistake, you can fix it.

Truer words were never spoken!

I skipped over the anti-mugging training with my youngster because I was interested in creating a very energetic horse--and did I ever create an energetic horse!!!! But then I got tired of all that energy so stopped clicking the wild and crazy behaviors and started clicking much calmer behaviors, and over a period of time transformed my previously manic horse into a much calmer, quieter horse.

Not that he wasn't calm when he was more energetic, but he certainly didn't look like he was calm.

[Chisamba]

I experimented with it because I had a stall bounds horse. It required patience until the horse realized it had to solve the problem to get the treat.

I find it takes longer to establish the goal so if you are trying to work with eight horses a day pressure release is more fluenr, obvious and quicker.

Clicker training had zero, nada, none, help or influence on my hyper afraid Deneb.

I aksi find the application too limited when riding.

The best thing about it is it teaches the human to recognise and acknowledge correct response. Or attempt at correct response.

[kande50]

Clicker training had zero, nada, none, help or influence on my hyper afraid Deneb.

I have no way of knowing whether all the CT has helped with my horses' fears because I have no control samples, but pairing aversives with fear doesn't make any sense to me either, so I persist with CT.

I do think that pressure and release can be a much more convenient way to expose them, so may be more practical. OTOH, "passive" exposure (set up barriers and leave them to habituate on their own) may be the most effective, simply because it gives them enough time to fully habituate. Passive exposure isn't always possible, but there is a belief that if we can allow them to thoroughly habituate to some of their fears then those lessons may carry over to others.

The best thing about it is it teaches the human to recognise and acknowledge correct response. Or attempt at correct response.

I think it also helps dispel a lot of the old wives' tales surrounding horses, because it becomes so obvious that the horse really wants to do it and yet the trainer can't always figure out how to tell him what it is that they want him to do.

[Kelo]

I use it with the Cowpony.

When we started, many years ago, there was just the one Kurland book. Now there are all kinds of books and videos.

It is an amazing tool in the toolbox. My opinion is that it may not work for everyone, like any other tool. Not because its not effective, but because many people cant properly apply it. It requires exquisite timing and properly breaking down steps. It also motivates the horse to a point that many people cant handle.

But we started wth tricks -- yes, no, fetch, spanish walk. Moved on to ridingmaneuvers like reining spin, collection, half pass, piaffe. Youre only limited to what you can figure out.

I have spent our career winging it, so I have made mistakes with him but I am a believer in how it works. what is it they say, when a horse chooses to do something, it is made beautiful? Well when this is applied correctly, this allows a horse to choose.

[fergusnc]

Thanks all! I am really excited to read my new books when they arrive because I have no idea what some of the terms you guys are using actually mean, lol! And had no idea about creating energy or creating too much energy or creating responses that are too much for some people....good to know.

I know so very little about it, and one thing I am curious about...clicking versus saying "good boy"...hoping the books will clear up the difference. I feel like I have very good timing with dogs and horses because I am so excited about the smallest try...that part I think I will do well with. I use a sound to prep the horses to tune into me, that I will be making a request and I have a different sound that means "come here" and then the release of pressure with the very slightest positive response when making requests. I use "good boy" reliably. That does seem more functional in day to day life, but realizing I have no real grasp of the technique, I am excited to learn more about it....mainly wondering if it will help Dallas build confidence, but in the last two days I have seen him make great progress with some techniques I already know, so who knows.

[kande50]

I know so very little about it, and one thing I am curious about...clicking versus saying "good boy"..

Saying "good boy" is fine. The click is mostly for shaping precise behaviors, in sometimes very tiny increments, when precision is important. But clicker training is also used to reward less precise (bigger chunks of) behaviors, too.

A lot of clicker trainers use "yes", or "good", because a word is precise enough, but one word is more precise than two.

One of the reasons the marker doesn't matter all that much is because the horse will be paying close attention, so will soon sort out what's being used as a marker.

[Kelo]

Can I clarify what Kande said? She is right, you can use whatever you want as a clicker, incl 'good boy', but shorter is better.

But you have to use it precisely. So anytime you say "good" or "yes", that specifically means a click (followed by a treat). So you cant just randomly tell him what a good boy he is, yes he is, or the tool starts to lose power. Like putting your leg on but not actually caring if they go somewhere.

I use a mouth click. Tongue on the top of the roof of my mouth, then straight down, kind of a popping noise for clicker click and only clicker click. No need for an actual clicker.

The cluck and kiss mouth sounds still mean go. Cluck means "do more", kiss means lope.

He responds differently to all 3 noises.

[kande50]

The cluck and kiss mouth sounds still mean go. Cluck means "do more", kiss means lope.

He responds differently to all 3 noises.

Funny, I use the same sounds for the same things. Cluck doesn't actually work as well as I'd like it to because I've been sloppy about the way I use it, but kiss means canter and they know that, and click means stop and they've certainly got that! I also use "trot" in kind of a loud, quick voice, and that helps if they get confused about what I'm trying to get.

[Chisamba]

You also might possibly accidentally teach the wrong marker, like after you click you reach for a treat. The horse identifies the sound of the treat being reached as the reward.

Or at least I did.