Project horse

[bits]

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We rescued/bought a yearling colt last week (for 300) to be pasture buddies with my yearling Hanoverian colt. He needs some tlc... The story is that he was attacked by a big cat when he was a week old, BUT this injury looks more like a burn to me. It gets crusty and flakes off in patches. Has anyone ever dealt with injuries like this?

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[exvet]

Do you know what his breeding/bloodlines are? I have dealt with injuries like what's pictured but I've also dealt with HERDA in QHs that can look very similar. The injuries that looked like what's pictured were burns (not always thermal burns but also chemical and friction caused burns) with secondary chronic infection that required biopsy and culture to treat appropriately. There is testing available for HERDA too.

[Chisamba]

I agree, i have seen HERDA look like that.

[bits]

Blue valentine but that's all I know

[bits]

I didn't think HERDA appeared until later. This guy was born June 2015.

Other injured areas are healing fine. Wouldn't a HERDA horse have problems healing everywhere?

A vet looked at him before we went to get him and gave vaccines and did a coggins, etc... Wouldn't that vet have known if it was HERDA?

[exvet]

Usually HERDA shows up around 18 months to 2 years but they don't all read the text books. I would think that all injuries would have trouble healing completely. You asked what it looked like and I shared my experience. A genetic test would rule it out; but, it's reasonable to pursue other causes and if you're still not seeing improvement, keep it in mind. As for what another vet would recognize or not.......let's just say we ain't all created equally.

[bits]

No need to be defensive. I'm just asking questions because having never seen it myself as I have no clue what it looks like, but after reading about it and looking at pictures online, "it seems" that a vet would easily recognize it. I'm questioning his ability not yours. In the cases you saw, was it clear which it was; injury or HERDA OR was cause only determined after a DNA test?

He doesn't seem to have any other symptoms. No excessive skin looseness on his neck or face. I can't pull his skin away from his face as is in this picture.

So my next question... His next vet appointment is on Friday with my vet here to look into getting him gelded and treat this injury (assuming it's an injury). Which company will get the test back by Friday? UC Davis or Animal Genetics? If he has it, he'll be euthanized so need to get this figured out before we go much further with his treatment.

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[Chisamba]

I think i would run the genetic test to be sure before gelding, I hope it is not Herda the thing that I do not like about the scar is that to me it is not well healed. I am not sure how long ago it was supposed to have happened, but having taken on project horses, you really cannot believe a word that is said about them, so its a lot of detective work on your part.

What i would do, and of course you will weigh all the evidence for yourself and may come to a different opinion, but i would run the genetic test, just to be sure, before gelding etc.

I hope it is simply a large scar with adhesions.

[bits]

Agree. That's why I need the test before Froday. Otherwise we will have to wait to geld and I really want that done ASAP while the weather is good.

[Quelah]

UC Davis is 2-6 days upon receipt. Don't know about the other one.


https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/herda.php

[bits]

The other one said two business days so I'll go with them. His hair sample is ready to go. Let's hope for the best because he really is a cool horse.

[Anne]

Hoping for the best for you bits, he is a handsome young horse! I had never heard of HERDA, so I've learned something here. Good luck

[PhoenixRising]

If its not HERDA and is scar tissue, I strongly recommend looking to have acupuncture done on it. We have a horse at the barn where I ride, who was meant for a bucking horse strand originally, so was branded when he was younger. The brand had massive scar tissue, and was flaky and would have sores under the flakes. He would flinch when you brushed him. Last year when I body clipped him was when I discovered the sores under the flaky skin.
Fast forward to this year, and a lady who is a licensed acupuncturist started riding at our barn. She thought she could help, so started doing acupuncture directly into the scar tissue (to increase blood flow to the area). It is AMAZING the difference. There are barely any flakes at all now (she's still not done, this has been over a couple months), he doesn't flinch when you brush him, essentially it looks healed now, vs what it was before.

[bits]

Tail hairs are in the mail. We will know by the end of the week.

Is acupuncture something I could do myself? (after a training session of course)

[PhoenixRising]

Tail hairs are in the mail. We will know by the end of the week.

Is acupuncture something I could do myself? (after a training session of course)

I honestly don't know. I could ask her this weekend how difficult it would be to show someone how to do something that specific. It would be a lot cheaper to do it yourself after learning how I'm sure. I just don't know how in depth or difficult it is.

[khall]

No, not acupuncture is not taught to lay people.

[kande50]

No, not acupuncture is not taught to lay people.

I thought that accupuncturists were mostly lay people? No?

[PhoenixRising]

No, not acupuncture is not taught to lay people.

I thought that accupuncturists were mostly lay people? No?

I think not. I think in most states, you have to be a vet to practice acupuncture on animals professionally. The lady who has been working on the horse at our barn is licensed to work on people, and has had thousands of hours of training and continuing education to be able to do so.

[khall]

No. To work on animals there is the Chi Institute in FL and I think one other school in the states. A good friend (DVM) has done both the Chi Institute and chiro training in WI.

[bits]

It's not the money, but the time. I have time in the evenings and could do it.

Regardless.. Need to get past the test results first. Then I'll worry about how to help with the scar.

[bits]

Got the test report back. The good news is that it's NOT HERDA. The bad news is that he is n/PSSM1. All other 5 panel tests came out good, but the PSSM1 is terrible news. That said, it can be managed with a high fat low starch diet and these horses do best outside 24/7. We'll do the best we can do with him and remember he was purchased to be a friend to my Hanoverian colt which is where the training money needs to go anyway.

[StraightForward]

Glad it's not HERDA! At least you learned about the PSSM early and can manage it right off. I suspect that my gelding is PSSM, and he does fine without any heroic measures; hopefully your guy is the same. He's lucky you scooped him up!

[bits]

What happens to your horse? I no nothing about this disease other than what little I read tonight

[StraightForward]

What happens to your horse? I no nothing about this disease other than what little I read tonight

Well, he injured himself at 3 years old, and when I brought him back as a 4 yo, he was constantly sucked back behind my leg and I practically had to light dynamite under him to get him to canter. Started suspecting PSSM, put him on a grain free diet with about 6 ounces of canola oil, and boom, different horse within a week. Also had to move stables to ensure he got adequate daily turnout. At the beginning, I did some other things, like supplementing with acetyl L-carnitine and I don't remember what else, but tapered off to where he was just getting hay, oil and LMF ration balancer, and he seemed fine (with respect to the PSSM symptoms, he has a bunch of other problems too). Caveat being that he's never been in heavy work, but he's been happy with just about 4-6 hours of daily turnout for the past seven years. Since he broke his knee last year, I've taken him off the oil and he just gets grass hay, a multi vitamin and a pound of Renew Gold and maintains the same amount of muscle that you'd expect of any pasture puff.

[bits]

good to know.

[angela9823]

It is really good to know this before the gelding. Let the attending vet know because some of these horses react very harshly to drugs. A neighbor had a horse that was PSSM and when he had to be sedated, he'd have seizures. Otherwise, with the right diet that horse did really well in the shows etc. He got his eye cut on something in the field and they had a time treating it due to the complications of PSSM and his drug reactions. He colicked severely one night and they put him down. But he was in his 20s at the time and still being ridden regularly.

[Chisamba]

Oh good. Pssm is more manageable than HERDA. Feed a starch controlled diet and add fat. The most complicated thing i foresee is that you may have to separate the companions to feed.

Your hanoverian is probably going to need more calories than you qh,. The good thing is that mist horses do better on a controlled starch diet.

[bits]

Oh good. Pssm is more manageable than HERDA. Feed a starch controlled diet and add fat. The most complicated thing i foresee is that you may have to separate the companions to feed.

Your hanoverian is probably going to need more calories than you qh,. The good thing is that mist horses do better on a controlled starch diet.

And they pretty much get that already via a ration balancer + custom topping dependent on the horse and free choice grass hay.

[bits]

So Mr Charlie is at the vet and will be gelded and have his hernia repaired in one surgery in the morning. The vet thought the injury was most likely from a dog due to the location. He said cat attacks are closer to the neck. Also said he'll look completely different next year when he catches up on nourishment.

[Chisamba]

hope it all goes very well!

[bits]

Charlie was gelded and got his hernia repaired. He's good. Just have to figure out a way to keep his scar covered in sunscreen.

[PaulaO]

Charlie was gelded and got his hernia repaired. He's good. Just have to figure out a way to keep his scar covered in sunscreen.

Glad to hear. Can you put a sun sheet/fly sheet on?

[Sunshine2Me]

My DD's QH mare was diagnosed last summer with PSSM. So far she's been managing it quite well. It's nice to have the diagnosis, so you know how to manage it.

[Kelo]

Glad the surgery went well.

I know several PSSM horses, and it's very manageable for them -- they lead very successful and happy lives. At least in their case, the key is regular exercise (full turnout, regular and actually pretty energetic riding) and a low-carb diet. No sweet feed or sugar cubes for them! They stay fat, happy, and are very successful in their jobs.

[demi]

It's nice to hear that you are giving him a good home. I think he's going to look wonderful when he matures. Huge scars can diminish surprisingly in time.

[jeniferkey]

Thanks for all the updates. It's interesting to hear all the results. And nice to hear positive news.