Tying Discussion....thoughts?

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Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby fergusnc » Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:23 am

So I don't remember what I was taught as a kid...pretty much just used crossties at lesson barns from what I can remember....no teaching or training really I guess, horses knew what was up already. But as an adult, and riding all ages and horses with various backgrounds that came to my trainer who actually taught me about this, as well as reading and reading and reading when I bought the 2 year old version of Fergus, this is what I embraced....

Always use a breakaway halter. On top of that, use baling twine to attach crossties and straight ties or as loops on eye hooks if you straight tie with lead ropes. Teach them to give to pressure. You do not want them to learn they can act up or sit back and break free if they feel like it, but you also don't want them to get trapped or hurt if the fight or flight instinct wins out when something startling happens. Don't ever tie with a rope halter, as if they struggle or sit back, those knots get tighter and tighter and there will be no undoiñg them. My horse is a good tie-er. He has broken free...once at a show when tied to the trailer and the farm help decided to drag and pressure wash iron furniture on the porch about 30 feet behind him. That's all I can recall as far as tying drama, but I also stay close and monitor...never felt comfortable walking away at shows to watch others ride while I left him to doze while tied to the trailer. He ground ties great at home. In fact I rarely actually tie him at all at home. But I still think of the fight/flight angle.

I was also taught not to leave them in crossties unattended for long periods of time...if they need to stay there, so do you. If they don't need to stay there, put them in their stall or pasture before you go do whatever it is you need to do. I have heard people talk of teaching them with a rubber inner tube and a concreted post and solid halter so they don't ever learn that getting loose is possible. And I have heard of horses getting really hurt in that scenario.

I have been following more "natural horsemanship" and ranch work type folks on Facebook and auditing clinics here and there, and they use rope halters all the time, even for tying. They work daily and often and do real farm/ranch chores. The horses learn to tie at hitching posts and stay there quietly. It's important that they can ground tie anywhere and while left alone when the rider gets down to do some task. It's just a different world than the demands of mine. My horses will never work that hard. But I still see the photos of the horses tied in rope halters and hear the voices in my head of what I had been taught.

I know I baby my horses and am a what-if thinker. I try to set us up for success with solid baby steps, but also try to prepare for the unexpected. I get it that these folks who do ranch work or ranch classes are not wired like me. They handle trouble if it comes, after preparing and training in efforts to prevent it.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on tying, and the different strategies used in different jobs and disciplines.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby heddylamar » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:12 am

Horses will always get hurt.

I use a heavy leather halter, nylon lead, and highway man's hitch. My mares are trained to tie to a post (preferably on a fence or wall), ground tie, and cross tie. I far prefer a post, but, either way, they are expected to stand quiet in all circumstances, and do so.

I've never had reason to tie to a high line, but I expect it would be fine after a short adjustment period.

The barn's cross ties connect to the eye bolts with industrial zip ties. Not as easy to snap as twine, but still serves as a weak point. Other than the cross ties, I don't use any breakaways when tying to the trailer, etc.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby exvet » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:24 am

I was always taught to tie with either a cotton lead and do so with a quick release knot (easy to cut the rope or undo the knot in a hurry) or use cross ties - bungie type - with quick release snaps attached to the eye hooks. My horses all know how to ground tie. They all know how to stand tied for hours if need be. For years, going to the horse shows because I most often would show off my trailer, I'd hear people exclaiming how lucky I was that my horses were so well behaved.......well it was a form of Darwinism....twits didn't last in my barn or they learned how to stand politely tied and all day long if that's what it took. I still will tie young stock while I ride and work with all the others. I've had some tough ones and for those that is why I will always have a blocker tie ring but before those came out I was taught to use an inner tube for those that had a penchant for pulling back. At the end of the day a horse isn't a creature that would have evolved for much longer without man's intervention. They are a creature that will kill itself in a padded room if left to it's own devices. I love them. I'm addicted to them but at some point you have to draw a line. While I try to prevent injury when and where I can, I don't think it's too much to ask for them to tie and do so quietly. None of mine are hurting for groceries. One hour of work a day and behaving politely at the end of a lead line is all I ask.I was raised by a man who depended on horses to help make a living in his early days. I learned how to hitch teams that worked, I mean really worked. Heifers that kicked their first year in the parlor ended up in the freezer. Horses that didn't stand quietly ground tied with a feed bag attached to their rigging suffered an equal fate. I guess I just didn't stray too far from the belief that if they did good work for you they deserved proper welfare and if you delivered then polite, cooperation was in fair trade.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby khall » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:37 am

I like the blocker ties for both tying and cross tying. I never need a horse to stand tied for long periods of time usually and have not tied to a trailer in years. Unfortunately I have two that will chew their leads badly, so ick when they get done with them! The only place I hard tie is in the horse trailer with a lead, but always haul with leather halters.

BTW tying with a rope halter should not be a problem even if they pull back IF you tie the halter properly, There is a certain way to tie the rope halter so that it will not tighten down unable to undo it.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Quelah » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:30 am

My Irish TB mare ( and namesake ) was the only horse I've ever had who didn't tie reliably, but I met my BFF (now of 25 years ) over a broken leather halter :) . Jet lived in a tie stall before I got him, so yeah, he ties. Everyone else has tied reliably to one degree of another. My horses all learn to ground tie pretty well because I wash them in the driveway no tie rack so they learn to stand.

My new horse however is a 5 year old Hanoverian who has never been tied and is only half ass halter broke, and he just got gelded a few weeks ago, so we've got a ways to go before I even start to introduce the idea of tying LOL!

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Chisamba » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:27 am

Agree with Khall, rope halters only tighten if you do not tie them correctly.

I was raised differently. A horse is in danger running loose so we never used break away halters or ties. Time was spent teaching all horses to tie reliably.

Once a horse ties reliably, you can tie it with a thread :)

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby StraightForward » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:22 pm

khall wrote:I like the blocker ties for both tying and cross tying. I never need a horse to stand tied for long periods of time usually and have not tied to a trailer in years. Unfortunately I have two that will chew their leads badly, so ick when they get done with them! The only place I hard tie is in the horse trailer with a lead, but always haul with leather halters.

BTW tying with a rope halter should not be a problem even if they pull back IF you tie the halter properly, There is a certain way to tie the rope halter so that it will not tighten down unable to undo it.


At home I use a rope halter. I also tie with Blockers at home and haul with a leather halter. I was using the velcro breakaway trailer ties, but Miss Pickle learned to jerk her head in just a way to undo them, so I now run her lead rope through the tie ring and loop it back through a couple times.

Obie set back against an elastic cross tie with a emergency release snap and actually shredded all of the elastic and the snap never gave, so I don't trust those. Plus if they do give, they because a high-speed metal projectile. I've also owned a 14H Arabian that was gifted at breaking heavy-duty snaps when he was tied.

I don't usually leave my horses tied for long periods, but when I soak their feet with White Lighting, that's like an hour and a half and they take it in stride.
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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby fergusnc » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Interesting re rope halters tied correctly...I know when I first got them I did them wrong, and I'm pretty sure I remember the correct way now, lol. And the person who told me they would get to a point of being untie-able didn't use them, so good reminder/perspective.

I didn't grow up immersed in horses, just lessons in hunter lesson barns as the addiction would ramp up and down. :lol: these were definitely not DQ folks, so guessing if I had been taught about tying then it would reflect some of the Darwinism type points made so far. And that was what I was already thinking as far as a bit difference from my experience in a Dressage barn versus what I see in this more ranch work/class folks. It's the mindset of the human more than anything I guess? And being the owner of only one horse that was the culmination of insane hard work and 28 years of waiting, I think that affects my outlook/reception to methods than if I owned seventeen and had owned horses since I was a teeny kid. Helicopter Horse Mom...ok, I admit it. :oops:

Now having Dallas too, I guess I am re-examining. I have grown a lot and mellowed a HUGE amount in having Ferg for 17 years, but I think at my core I am just a what-if thinker about life, and see so many wrecks in all aspects of society with my job and pursuits, I don't know how much more I will mellow. :lol:

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Literiding » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:27 pm

I'm pretty old fashion, I tied my first horse when the "Bay of Pigs" invasion failure was still in the news and JFK was still President of the U.S. Living in the west, many of my early horsemanship instructors were use to riding in "open range" country where a loose horse may not be seen again for several months. My formal instructors were usually retired U.S. Army Cavalry officers who clearly understood to loose one's horse was tantamount to a death sentence in warfare. So I was taught to tie a horse so the horse can't get loose . . . ever (also was taught never to let go of one's horse during a riding crash either!). My early lessons were reinforced by keeping one or more stallions most of my adult life. When taking your stallion out into the world, you can never ever let him get loose, ever - one of the prices of being entire. So my tying arrangements are very sturdy. My main tie is a six-by-six inch post set three hand a half feet into the ground and is just shy of five feet tall. The tie ring is an 8000 lbs rated eye bolt with a two inch washer on the back side of the tie post. I use stallion rated nylon halters with no buckles or snaps on the crown strap along with eight foot long 5/8th inch leads and snaps that are rated in the thousand pound class. As a special case, I do use a "break-away" halter on a horse that I turn loose in the field with a halter on. I usually prefer to let them go naked, but there are those horses that are a little shaky to catch again and having a halter on gives you a little bit of an advantage. Most of my horses have been show horses and on the 1 to 10 "hotness scale," are usually above six. Because of that, I have never tried to teach a horse to ground tie. I have never had a horse hurt himself from fighting being tied, usually, once they learn they aren't going to get loose themselves, they wait for someone with an opposable thumb to rescue them.

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This is the all time most difficult horse I've ever owned, on the "1 to 10 scale," he was a nine or ten. He was (euthanized at age 22 for cancer and is buried on my farm) a typical Off The Track Thoroughbred (OTTB). Race track trainers rarely train horse to tie because of the extreme silliness (way too much grain) of Thoroughbreds as well as the horse's youth and value of the the race horses. To teach him to tie, I used a ten foot lead that I threaded the lead through the eyebolt and wrapped the loose end around the tie rope twice. I kept the loose end in my back pocket so when he pulled back, I could pull my end of the rope to oppose him. When he pulled back on his end of the rope I pulled on my end of the tie rope tightening the twists which prevented him from pulling any rope through the ring. I've seen two sailors stop a 60,000 ton ship using this trick on a mooring line. If he started wobbling his head or I felt he was on the verge of hurting himself, I could let up and let some lead rope slip through eyebolt. Usually after I fed him 4 to 6 inches or so, he'd quit and step back up to the tie post. It took me two or three months to get him fully broke to tie using this method and for the next 10 years, he never challenged being tied, he would wait, sometimes not too patiently, for someone to untie him.

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This horse is my all-time best horse ever. He was an Andalusian stallion and I took him from first backing to training at Pre-St. George when grey melanoma did him in. To bridle a stallion, I teach them to "neck tie" (a rope around their neck) while I'm putting on the bridle. This avoids the moment of no control between taking the halter off and putting the bridle on. I use a nylon trailer tie strap wrapped around their neck with a large steel ring to act as the tie ring on the neck strap. He was doing pretty good with learning to neck tie when we had a big wreck. Because he had a tendency to swing around so the tie ring would be on the right side of his face, I was using a carpenter's saw horse (which doubled as mounting block) set just to the right of his haunches to keep him pointed at the tie ring. I had shifted the tie rope from the halter to the neck tie and had his bridle on. He shifted his hind quarters to his right as he often did and fell over the saw horse and went down. The tie rope was short enough that his head was about four inches shy of reaching the ground and he panicked. Being on the feet side, there wasn't much I could do but I can still see his face all these years later. In the midst of his panic, he looked at me. With my arms akimbo, I asked in my most sarcastic voice, "Are you done yet?"

His feet stopped flailing, he paused a moment thought about his predicament and then got up. He put the flat of his face against my chest and spent the next five minutes telling me how very hard it is to be a horse. There after, until his all too soon death, you could tie him by his neck strap and leave him for days without a problem.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby DJR » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:50 pm

All of my horses tie. Straight tie, cross tie, and most ground tie. I will not and cannot have it any other way. I go to shows solo, sometimes with two horses, and I expect them to stand tied. I give them hay (hay net) & water, and if it's summertime I have them appropriately donned in fly masks & fly sheets so that they are not uncomfortable. I park strategically so that they are in the shade, and if I need to I move the rig half way through the day to improve the shade as the sun goes through the sky.

For me, tying is as essential as other safety skills, like standing at the mounting block, lifting all feet, moving away from pressure with ground handling, etc.

I do not use anything that will give ... I do not want them to learn that if they pull harder, they'll break free. The only exception is that the cross ties in my grooming stalls have binder twine holding them to the upper rings. My grooming stalls, though, have a solid wall behind the horse so they cannot go back against the ties, and they are in my drive shed so the horses sense that they are almost in a stall. When they are boarded over the winter, though, they cross-tie in the alleyway without problems.

I teach my youngsters to respond to pressure. When they first get tied, I supervise and keep it short and successful. They gradually are asked to stand longer, and are gradually exposed to more going on around them while they are tied. I always start with a straight tie to my sturdy hitching pole, and I don't give them more than about 2' of lead so that they cannot flail around and hurt themselves. If they pull (and many of them never pull), I stand quietly and let them figure out that they are not going anywhere, and AS SOON as they step forward and put slack back in the tie, they get a pat and a rub-down (if they aren't too wound up to make that unsafe).

Years ago when I bought my Hawk trailer, I didn't realize that the tie rings were not through-bolted to the trailer. They were only screwed in with short screws. Because of that, my Friesian/Perch pulled at a show and broke free when the tie ring pulled out of the trailer. This led to a short period where he figured out that he could pull and get free. I had a friend modify the tie rings with through-bolts and he tested twice more and then gave up. That was eight years ago. He's never pulled since.
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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Kyra's Mom » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:08 pm

Well...I grew up in the west and when I got a horse, didn't have a lot of instruction (yes, poor horse :| :? ).

So...I have always tied horse outfitted with a flat nylon halter. I have had those break (ok, tear) with no problem :shock: . Now I use either rope or nylon. I don't even own a leather halter (that fits current horse). I have never understood the concept of making things breakable and then tie a horse to them. The only time I have had a horse hurt was when my WB mare broke a snap which had her go up and over, smacking her head on the ground. No lasting injury but she gouged a big chunk of forelock out and had a mild concussion. Since those days, I have become a BIG convert to the Blocker tie rings. I still use and tie....even haul...in nylon and rope halters. I use the Velcro break aways IN the trailer as the rings are too low for the Blockers to work properly. The Blockers have pretty much trained the last two to stand tied...I can now tie them 'hard' (I use a John Wayne knot which is quick release) and have had no issues. However, I carry the Blocker's in the trailer and have them at the tie wall at the barn. I don't leave home without them :lol: . I usually only have about an hour and a half to two hours at the barn and so no, she isn't tied for hours at a time but I think she would now (15 this year). At shows, she has tied nicely with a hay bag to entertain her or I put her in the trailer where she stands nicely.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby fergusnc » Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:15 pm

I am so glad I started this thread! Thanks guys.

So...do you think that I am am over-estimating how many wrecks there are from pulling back/trying to get loose? And maybe in some of those strories the horses were tied on too long a rope, etc?

I taught Fergus to try as described...short periods, lots of praise, end on a good note, build up length, etc. the only time he got fee was the one I mentioned, but I didn't intercede a few times when he got antsy...those could have been more examples to add. he was tied to an empty trailer, with another horse tied on the other side and he was genuinely terrified of what was going on. I thought he "gave to pressure" quite well, and was there's trying to get him to focus on my voice, but he was in full panic and just threw himself back over and over and sat down until the halter broke. It took quite a bit and went on for awhile. I got the other horse untied...not safe to get near Fergus. And he ran the show grounds and I was horrified that he might hurt someone or get someone dumped, mad, embarrassed, and worried. Once loose, I could see his eye change and the panic was gone...thankfully...he switched into show off mode and was careful of all humans on foot. Thank goodness no riders were unseated even though he buzzed the show ring and warm up. :oops: :oops: That is burned in my memory so I am even more of a worry wart about tying...

Fergus is impatient, as being indulged by me I am sure. I don't want that for dallas. Though their personalities are sooooo different maybe it's a non-issue.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby piedmontfields » Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:18 pm

The reason I acquired blockers for my old barn was witnessing wrecks: young horses, retrain projects, horses with poor tying skills. You could say that was a training issue. ut I don't like seeing other horses get hurt (and yes, they can seriously get hurt).

My horse ties well (cross/straight/ground). Someone taught her well (actually I taught her the cross tie bit).

You do need solid trailer attachments if you are tying hard to a trailer.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Kyra's Mom » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:38 pm

You are right, piedmontfields...it is training. Just like trailer loading, tying seems to be one of those things that people just expect the horse to do and it is contrary to every instinct he has.

I think I have only dealt with one horse of mine that didn't pull back...hint, hint...it has to be worked on...their is a giant hole in the training. The Blockers allow that training to happen incrementally without the horse feeling trapped. The one I had go over when the snap broke was a very claustrophobic mare but I was able to work with her safely with the Blockers (that is when I discovered them) and we did overcome the panic.

Like fergusnc, even ones that don't normally pull can have a go, so that is why, if I can, I use the Blockers. You just never know.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby fergusnc » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:30 pm

I bought a Blocker for Dallas. I am doing little bits with him every day but this whole fixer upper farm thing....and winter...can limit stuff, lol. But I embrace the thing someone smart once said about training or untraining your horse every time you interact with it, and I try hard to do something small at every meal, every day. Anyway...the Blocker is set up, and I have had him in its vicinity a few times. I noticed that as soon as I led him to the post (a barn post, near Fergus who was in his stall chilling out), Dallas immediately perked up and got leery. Sort of quit breathing. I threw the rope over the contraption, but didn't run it through, and he sucked in his breath and froze. So I decided to really do the baby steps with him, in case he has had a wreck or no one ever taught him kindly about tying. To be honest, haven't spent a ton of time on it, as he ground ties fantastically in our little routine, but we will work on it.

Question though....it seems like the Blocker does not mesh with the theory of "they learn not to pull when the post doesn't give" right? Because it keeps them from feeling trapped, and even if they come to feel totally calm with a Blocker and rarely/never test it, if they are later hard tied and get panicked, it won't translate...or will it? I guess that I that is sort of the crux of my confusion re tying.

I have also seen the flailing and panic and quick releases not releasing and then releasing like a flipping weapon...and horses almost go over in that moment and almost put a hoof through a teenage owner's head who knew everything and was too stubborn to step away from her horse instead of stand there with hands on hips and lecture him/ignore the adults scattered and trying to tell her to jump back.

I have also seen owners pull a two year old out of a stall, never been tied, with very little handling and ground work, and stick it in the cross ties alone befire going off to sit down to mess with their phone. The horse never moved, and I have not heard of a wreck a year plus later, which make sure me worry about the baby they get someday who isn't that compliant.

Thanks all for thoughts, experiences, methods and theories...it helps me sift and sort though...to what end I don't know but it's good to chew on it with such an experienced gang.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Imperini » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:52 pm

Growing up the horses either tied, or they learned to tie. The barn had a big post and if they didn't tie before once they met the post they did. I never really had any horses that had an issue with the cross ties. The barn used the stretchy ones so horses never panicked from feeling restrained but boy were they scary if you had to unhook one while it was stretched so not really a big fan. Most of the barns around here attach non-stretchy cross ties to binder twine and have quick release snaps as well, which is my preference.

Up until my current horse I never had an issue with tying or cross ties but it was one of the things that came up almost immediately after I got her. She broke the crown piece of a leather halter on the third day after I brought her home. I got a sturdier replacement crown piece and she broke the part that hooked to the top ring a couple of weeks later. I switched to a nylon halter and she pulled through the holes. This was with me always being right with her when she was tied so not a case of leaving her too long or unattended. She would step back, get a bit of a wild look in her eye and then sit until she was free. Having never had a horse with this sort of problem I was not really sure how to deal with it and not only would I be unwilling to do the post thing with her I also don't have one available. Then I discovered the blocker tie rings and am very happy with them and what they've done for us.

I'm not sure if the issue came up because she broke free on the third day or if this was a pre-existing issue that was conveniently left unmentioned. Either way I'm happy enough with how the blocker tie rings are working for us (and how she is in every other aspect) that it's mostly a non-issue these days. I actually had to leave her tied for just a minute while I ran back to the tack room yesterday, which was sort of a weird day for her because it was her first day on group turn-out at the new place and she apparently fell in love with everyone, and when I came back out she was standing there with the ties pulled farther than I had originally had them with a "huh.. I don't seem to be free?" look on her face. I figure that could have gone very poorly and then the blocker tie rings might become useless, but instead it went about as well as it could have in that she apparently tried to pull back and realized it wasn't having the intended effect. I'll still avoid leaving her when I can but sometimes I'm forgetful.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby piedmontfields » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:10 pm

Imperini, I'm sure you've figured this out, but you can adjust how "easily" the lead slides in the blocker ties by how you thread it.

For people who insist that an adult horse with tying issues "get over it" and just get tied hard to a "patience post", I say, you obviously haven't seen a horse panic and hurt itself badly from this set-up.

I do think that traditional tie training methods work well when introduced early and systematically. But alas, many horses lack an education and need kinder tools to help them learn later in life.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby heddylamar » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:45 pm

I thought that quick releases were designed to quickly unlatch for humans when under heavy pressure, like a panicky horse sitting back, not that they're designed to fail under pressure. Is that not correct?

And, yes, piedmont, the technique should be adjusted to an individual horse, but I still have the same long term expectation -- stand quiet when tied.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby DJR » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:46 am

I personally hate the bungie ties. I think they are very dangerous for both horse & human. I always choose a hard tie over a bungie tie! I've seen those bungie ties whip around and clock a horse right next to their eye (if it had hit the eye, I'm sure it would have caused permanent injury).
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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby PaulaO » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:27 pm

I've only had 2 horses and my only desire is for them stand quietly on ties when being groomed, tacked up, and feet done. Bob was very good on ties. Miss A., well, I wrote a lengthy post about her issues. I've never had to tie my horse to anything except cross ties in the aisle. I cannot stand owners who leave their horses in ties while they are cleaning tack, or going to the bathroom, or chit chatting in the tack room. I bellow for them to tend to their horse.

I'm still debating about purchasing Blockers for the barn. I am working with Ariel on cross tie manners and doing a bit of ground tie teaching. She does best and stands quietest when she doesn't feel confined.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Sunshine2Me » Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:14 pm

Not all tying accidents are due to misbehaving horses. Many years ago I had a senior that was cross-tied in a leather halter with breakaway ties while he was getting trimmed by the farrier. He fell in the cross-ties and NOTHING broke - not the halter, not the breakaway ties, nothing. We couldn't get the cross-ties loose from the halter because of the tension. Luckily, the farrier had a knife close by and cut the cross-tie. From then on I held that horse when he was getting trimmed.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Chisamba » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:01 pm

I have had a student be the victim of injury when a stallion broke free of his tie at a show. To me it was meant a lot more alarming than a horse going down when tied.

I have also seen injury when the ties broke and horse flipped. Worse than when tie did not break and the horse went down.

For me I remain convinced that if you are going to tie a horse, it should not be able or inclined to break away.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Sunshine2Me » Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:43 am

I've never had a horse that will set back purposely to break away. I've had quite a few break leather halters in panic but then recover quickly once free. I'll continue to use leather.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby redsoxluvr » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:25 am

piedmontfields wrote:Imperini, I'm sure you've figured this out, but you can adjust how "easily" the lead slides in the blocker ties by how you thread it.

For people who insist that an adult horse with tying issues "get over it" and just get tied hard to a "patience post", I say, you obviously haven't seen a horse panic and hurt itself badly from this set-up.

I do think that traditional tie training methods work well when introduced early and systematically. But alas, many horses lack an education and need kinder tools to help them learn later in life.


Exactly. I have an Oldenburg gelding that has tying issues. He has had them his entire life. If I tried to tie him to a patience post I would have a dead horse very quickly. There is no one answer for every horse.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Kyra's Mom » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:36 am

I agree Chisamba.

fergusnc...With my two that I have used the Blocker's with, it does seem to translate to the hard tying. I have had no problems hard tying my current mare now. Do I go off and leave her for a long time, no. She has shown no inclination whatsoever to pull and will pretty reliably come up off the pressure instead of sitting back. Can I say in every circumstance? Certainly not, but because of the work I have done with training and the Blocker's, she is pretty nice now. I don't like Clinton Anderson but he has a DVD that came out with the "Aussie" Tie Ring...ripoff...but he gives good information and exercises to habituate them to tying. I'm am sure there are others too. It gives a little insight to the tool (the tie ring).

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Moutaineer » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:28 am

I had one that would deliberately set back in cross ties. A hitching rail worked best for him, or a single tie, but he was never really comfortable or safe unless there was a wall behind him.

He was quirky in many ways. The worst weaver, too.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Chisamba » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:55 am

I do want to add, some horses you may never be a good idea to tie. Past history, anxiety, or for whatever reason. But if they won't stand tied, do not leave them tied with a break away halter, x tie or to a trailer.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Ponichiwa » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:57 pm

Chisamba wrote:I do want to add, some horses you may never be a good idea to tie. Past history, anxiety, or for whatever reason. But if they won't stand tied, do not leave them tied with a break away halter, x tie or to a trailer.


Agree with this (and other similar posts). Additionally, my preference is to teach horses to tie unless they've given me sufficient reason not to-- whether that's in the form of reactivity on the ground or incidents in soft-tie situations or whatever-- and if I'm teaching a horse to tie, I'm giving it the best chance to stay trustworthy as a tie-able horse. This keeps the frequency of the absolutely-cannot-be-tied horses down.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby fergusnc » Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:37 pm

Thanks again all! I try to reconcile safety-conscious versus worry wart or what-if thinker. This thread is helping me cut myself some slack. 8-)

Another Blocker question as I try to picture it in my mind away from the barn....so the piece that attaches to the eyebolt that is screwed into the post..is there a way for that piece to attach to the tie rings on the outside of a trailer? I read you can use it inside a trailer but never gave thought to how. For inside (and outside?) do people just attach that second piece to the welded trailer "loop" that comes in/on the trailers, using it in place of the eyebolt?

Chisamba, I can't imagine how horrible it was for your student to be hurt by a loose stallion. One of my biggest stressors about showing was knowing I was 100% responsible for the safety of every other horse and human there should my skills not be good enough to handle my horse. With horses pre-Fergus, it didn't hit home, as they were all pretty easy in new situations...but having a young and ginormous gelding who has really never embraced the fact that he isn't still a Casanova highlighted the potential pit falls. When he panicked and got loose at that show I was so incredibly thankful that a) he got over the panic and shifted into show-off mode almost immediately and 2) he is a very personable and careful horse who is so aware of the locations of humans and not injuring them. He avoided toddlers who were 10' feet from parents, baby strollers, and general pedestrians who were scattering and hollering "loose horse!" And "grab grain!" as I stomped along behind him with an unbroken halter and a bad attitude. :evil: I cannot tell you how relieved I was to see so many well behaved horses either continue on in their work, pull up when the warm up riders all halted and stood quietly, or stand at trailers/beside humans leading them. I was trying not to visualize the potential for spills, not put that vision out there. Watching (horse) people scatter and run towards/away and yell and shake buckets and wave arms and give advice while I stomped along in Fergus' wake was an "interesting" experience. Fergus finally stopped at the high ground that sort of overlooks the show area, beside an empty arena. A local 5-foot tall Dressage rider very skilled in natural horsemanship stuff before it had a newer name, was close and walked up to the snorting, blowing, tail-flagged, 17 hand dragon who looked 19hh, stood at his shoulder facing the same direction he was and laid her hands on both of his cheeks. Looked as cool as a cucumber and Fergus never moved. I called out that he was my bad horse and walked as fast but calm as I could to get to her with a halter. I was as embarrassed as I can ever remember being, and apologized profusely and begged forgiveness as I headed her way. She just stood quietly, not speaking. She got the halter on him, as my hands were shaking. As she handed me the lead rope, she smiled and said "He really is a lovely mover." And headed back to her trailer. I will never forget her reaction. It got me smiling and shaking my head and laughing and grumbling and telling Fergus how dramatic he was, while thanking him for not hurting anyone, as I headed back to our trailer. I am sure folks thought I was crazy. 8-)

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Canyon » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:06 pm

fergusnc wrote:Another Blocker question as I try to picture it in my mind away from the barn....so the piece that attaches to the eyebolt that is screwed into the post..is there a way for that piece to attach to the tie rings on the outside of a trailer? I read you can use it inside a trailer but never gave thought to how. For inside (and outside?) do people just attach that second piece to the welded trailer "loop" that comes in/on the trailers, using it in place of the eyebolt?


The Blocker Tie Ring now comes with a carabiner-like clip that makes moving the Blocker very easy. I clip the Blocker to the welded tie ring in my slant-load trailer (which is high, near the ceiling) and slip the lead rope in when loading, slip the rope out and unclip the Blocker when I unload the horse, clip the Blocker to the welded ring on the outside of the trailer and slip the rope in.

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Re: Tying Discussion....thoughts?

Postby Kyra's Mom » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:28 am

Yep...I just have a big heavy spring clip on my Blocker's. Way easy to move where I need.

I just remembered one incident with my mare that truly made me a believer that the Blockers help defuse things. I had just finished a lesson. I tied her to the trailer to untack. She was on the tie ring. I was over by the truck cab, taking my boots off and I heard this funny whooshing sound. I look up to see a fair sized dust devil heading toward the horse. She had her polar fleece cooler on that just buckled at the chest. I have never bothered to put leg straps on it because I don't haul her in it. The dust devil hit her and picked the cooler right up off her back. Then it hit the horse trailer and the air lost all its lift and deposited said cooler right over her head :shock: . I just though OH S*#!. She took one step back then just stood there waiting for me to rescue her. I suppose it helped some that she was effectively blindfolded but no panic on her part at all. After my initial shock, I at least had peace of mind that even if she did pull back, she would not get loose but bless her little sometimes very reactive hide, she was cool as a cucumber.

I mean who would have thunk she would end up with a cooler over her head :?: Not something I had trained for :lol: .

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