5 acre property layout and poop

[Sunshine2Me]

I will (hopefully) be purchasing a 5 acre property next month, if everything goes as planned. There is no horse accommodations at all. I'll be setting things up from scratch. Tell me what you wish you would have done, what you definitely would NOT do again, and what you do with your poop. I'm looking for any ideas as far as fencing, shelters, placement of said fencing and shelters, water troughs, etc.

There are currently two detached garages. I would love to turn one of them into a barn. Has anyone ever done anything like that?

TIA for any and all suggestions, pointers and tips! (And some jingles that this goes through would be appreciated as well).

[Dapple Field]

My only regret with our place is that in hind sight, I wish we would have built a small simple indoor with just a few stalls across one end instead of the beautiful, custom barn that we did. In this climate (VT) an indoor would have been much more useful than tongue and groove varnished stalls. The indoor would not have been that much more expensive.

[Amado]

I am trying to actively compost mine, which means paying attention to the temperature, and turning the pile - it's close to the barn at the moment, then will move the "curing" piles further away. I have the added complication of TONS of snow over the winter, and I may actually put up a shelter for the pile, so I don't have to deal with layers of ice in between the layers of manure. Want to be able to use the compost on flower beds, and to improve the soil in our lawn (which was put on fill, and it awful) There are county/town rules for animals on property, distances for buildings housing animals and for manure piles - from front, and from neighbors property lines, also from any water make sure you know them before you put anything anywhere.

And yes - like the above poster, we spent FAR too much money on the barn, and might have been better with a large pole building that had a loft for hay storage, enough room to lunge in the dead of winter when the snow is too deep for turnout, and some pipe panel stalls at one end insteady of pretty much building another house for the horses...

[kande50]

Something we did that we wouldn't do again, is we extended the roofs on the backs of the barns to make run in sheds so that we could put big doors on the ends for the hay wagons. Only trouble is, the snow slides off the roofs and piles up in front of the run ins, so some winters we have to remove piles of snow so the horses can get in and out.

That, and we've switched to mostly round bales, so no longer need such big doors on the barns for the hay wagons.

We did however, build a minimal indoor instead of putting the money into stalls, and that's worked out well because now I can back the tractor into the run in sheds to scrape them out instead of having to fork it all out by hand. If we needed to lock a horse in a stall we could add a gate to any of the run ins, although I usually set up temporary stalls in the indoor when I need to confine someone because that way I can make them whatever size I need.

[Srhorselady]

So much depends on your geography and climate. I built our 5 acre place from scratch 19 years ago, and for the most part am still happy with all of it. First make sure you know the normal wind and storm patterns across your property. Know which way the water naturally flows after rain storms so that you can work WITH your land when positioning buildings etc. Know what the seasonal sun pattern is before planting trees etc. I built three small barns each slightly different and each has pluses and minuses. All of mine are very open air and positioned to take advantage of our climate and allow the horses access/sight to each other and turnouts. One has hay storage, two have feed rooms, and one has a tack room. For manure control I started out with 3 pits for composting that I rotated which worked fine for two horses, but when the herd increased I went to a manure spreader. I have a conditioning trail around the property perimeter that follows the natural geography, but has footing created from the spread manure that is dragged once weekly. It has some slight inclines and a couple of shallow washes. Occasionally a neighbor sets up a couple of jumps for her eventing daughter. The trail is great for galloping or just walking when there isn't time to go off property. It's a great way to use the manure of five horses. We lose a certain amount of footing after rains but I have created small dams/breaks and left as much natural desert as possible. The property had quite a few Palo Verde and Mesuite trees to start with and I added tree wells to help hold water run off as well as more trees. I put in lots of faucets and use lots of 100 foot hoses and deal with rodent hose damage constantly. Not sure what kind of information you want, but good luck on your adventure. I planned everything to scale using graph paper when I started my project. Now you can probably do it on computer.

[texsuze]

Re: poop, like Srhorselady, I had good intentions of managing poop in compost piles. Too much trouble, tractor couldn't quite handle the turning of manure, and too many shavings vs other organic compounds meant I never got compost Got a Loyal manure spreader from TSC (on my second one now) and just go from driveway all the way to the arena, spreading manure--my Arena Trail. Has worked great, far enough away from barn to not pull in more flies, makes a good trot trail. You could possibly do the same thing with a perimeter trail around your property.

[Srhorselady]

Two things I should have mentioned first. Make sure EVERY stall and turnout has at least one 12 foot gate. Stripping stalls with a tractor is a lot easier than hand stripping Also if a horse goes down... I did do this, but I know people who didn't and had to take down fences. Also my circular drive takes a four horse just fine, but the cross country hauler was very happy to turn around in my turnout! And the sand delivery truck... And the fire engine. Second: budget for a compact tractor with a front end loader. We only had a garden tractor for the first five years and when we got the bigger tractor we kept saying we wished we'd gotten it five years sooner. Especially when you are building you will find a new use every week. I even use mine to change light bulbs in the barn and prune trees!

[boots-aregard]

Don't you have to put the manure pile at the top of the highest ground? I mean, ____ rolls downhill, right?




(We composted manure from 2-5 horses and oddly, our pile never quite seemed to get bigger. It just reduced downed over time, and we dug out composted manure each spring for the trees. This was California, though, where the stuff tends to dehydrate before it composts, so you have to water it.) Lots of folks have suggested an outside track, which I have to say sounds lovely to me. Might be just the warm-up/cool down your horses need before/after work.

[piedmontfields]

Another vote for planning for an outside track where you can actually do laps of trot and canter. There is nice drawing of a layout around an arena in de Kunffy's Athletic Development of the Dressage Horse.

And another vote for observing the property over time (water, drainage, etc.) before doing too much.

So many properties fail to count the steps for basic everyday tasks (turn in/out, water/feed/hay/clean). Make it as easy and as few steps as possible.

[fergusnc]

Congrats! How exciting! The following got lengthy, and may be way more than you wanted, so please ignore as needed.

Our place wasn't from scratch but was/is a major redo.

I echo that weather and climate is huge. We are in NC, so take that into account with my story. I am thrilled with my shedrow situation, and the horses love it. I can't imagine having to catch and lead horses in and out after having our situation...so much easier. I have two horse who get along great...I think personalities and dynamics may come into play with plans as well, so another grain of salt. The Little Red Barn (shedrow with overhang) was set up with three small stalls when we bought it, with one side closed up from the edge of the "porch" all the way back. Also had a piece of the adjacent front closed in...looks like an after-the-fact aspect and is probably due to weather/wind/rain. Long story, barn was not horse friendly, needed major shoring up just to start redo, but it had good bones.
So, if you can picture this.... we borrowed 2' from the porch to make stalls 12' deep. We made a 24' wide long stall with 2 doors with thoughts of later putting in a wall to cut it in two if we got a third horse. We made the second stall perpendicular to that space, using that enclosed area I mentioned. That second stall ended up being about 20' deep and 11' wide. So the stall area is an L if that makes sense. The horse love the huge stalls, and I am able to use that 12x24' space with 2 doors as a come and go as you please refuge from wind/heat/sun/flies...horses get along great with very clear leader/subordinate, so we haven't had any safety issues. We keep door to second stall area closed at all times, as it only has that one way in and out. DH also built on a 26' long area, as deep at the barn (about 20'), as a continuation of the barn for additional shelter. I feed hay there. It's open on 2 sides, barn on 1 side, and fenceline as back side. Barn ceilings are very high. Lots of air. Horse and vets love it. Stall gates are handmade, and DH read about 4' width for stall doorway, decided to go bigger for my very big boy, then added a buffer, so I think they may be 5' wide. lots of clearance for hip bones.

The fenceline comes off of either side of the barn and creates a 1 acre "barnyard". I have 2 additional pastures, about 1 acre each, on either side of barnyard. Sort of forms a U. At night they stay in barn yard, during day they have access to one of the two other fields, allowing for rotation. For the most part, no halters needed to turn out or bring in...they know the routine and they also, mostly, come when called. Water trough in each pasture, though they tend to prefer the one in barnyard or the buckets in that double stall.

We have just shy of 12.5 acres, 3 of which were hayfield when we bought the place, and we continue to hay those...they are unfenced. Originally I planned to fence EVERYTHING but after doing enough fencing yourself and paying for enough materials, plans can change. And having hay fields has been very nice, since we have a neighbor to hay them.

The way this place was set up, the house is about 1/3 of the way back, dead center, in a perfect rectangle. Huge front yard (a waste from horse perspective but DH loves it so it's fine by me), hay fields on right and left of front yard. Big back yard for dogs. Barns are at about the two thirds mark of property, behind house and back yard. Pond and some land at very back, woods on either side. I love this lay out as the horses are sort of hidden at all times. It makes me feel safer. And they have a buffer/distance from whatever neighbors are up to. We also have the fencelines set up that you can ride (and mow!) between our fenceline and the neighbors' fences (which are on property line...cattle, so barbed wire) as well as between outer horse fence and back yard fence, along with thenon-pasture areas of property). Sort of a perimeter track.

I love that there are two barns. Second barn is outside barnyard, but very close. Used for hay and other storage as we continue to work on horse barn. I like having hay separate for several reasons. At the backside of shedrow horse barn, there was more storage, and we turned that into a future wash pit once we have water hooked up, and what will be a tackroom/feedroom.

We ran water and power. At this point there is a yard hydrant outside fence down by barns. I don't even have to run hoses to stalls...so close I just carry a bucket or two. Use hose for troughs in barnyard in two pastures. Attach hose to house for third pasture. (We are on a well).

Random things...we did a bit of driveway work and created a jughandle that makes life easy for the UPS man, as well as trailer turnaround. Also widened a bit for trailer parking. Avoided a separate parking area for trailer by adding width, so cheaper. Also used crushed concrete in place of gravel....half the price! We have lots of gates. 12' wide. Have gotten all sorts of vehicles and equipment through them, including dump trucks. More gates than we typically need, but on that occasion when you need it, you are thankful! There is 1 place I wish I added a small gate and it still bugs the crap out of me every time I have to walk around to use another one.
We will be expanding the L of the horse barn to make a 12x12 for a donkey or two. Roof will be lower than other stalls due to pitch, but will be fine for donks or a small pony. Wish I had realized pre-run-in addition that the huge stall would never be converted, as we would have just gone longer and added more stall space, but it's not a problem unless we sell the place and person dislikes that lower ceiling height in that one stall.

Poop...have a pile in the woods. Has its own gate, lol. I drag the pasture with a four wheeler and a drag. The pile is from stall time...meals, bad weather, hang out time so less waste than if horses were in half the day. So far out hay guy has hauled off for us once in the not quite 1.5 years the horses have been here. Did have the pay. We thought we'd spread on hay fields but apparently that doesn't work as well with cutting square bales vs round bales and you cut grass shorter and poop can get in square bales.

Make sure your plumber and electrician are familiar with barn work. They actually helped me come up with the best way to do things after I told them my thoughts...they had an idea or two to improve my plan. And they were up on code requirements and materials needed and suggestions to help with freezing (plumbing). Plumber recommended extra shut off valves along the way, so we have one in pump room at house, one at yard hydrant, and one when we hook up water in the as yet unformed tack room. I got good advice from the DDBB group as well re: switches and such for the power....when it comes time for that for you.

The original owner did a pretty good job thinking about things like run off and wind. Not perfect, but really pretty good. We have struggled a bit fixing some water issues, so I would really stress paying close attention to what your land says about wind and rains at different times of year. And it may help to have your county extension agent out...sometimes they see things we miss, using fresh eyes that have seen lots of farms and really know the area.

Have a wonderful time!

[piedmontfields]

fergusnc has so much great advice. Read and heed!

p.s. fergus, you make me miss the soils of the piedmont (of NC)! Maybe one day we'll get to move back.

[Sunshine2Me]

Thank for all the great ideas! Keep them coming! I like the idea of the "poop track" and that may fit into our property layout.

Our inspection is this afternoon. Buying and selling homes is so stressful! I'll be glad when everything is signed and done!

[Chisamba]

let me third, or fourth an outside perimeter track. Around most or all the property. Yes, spread your shavings on the track, it both composts and makes for a nice trotting/ canter track. I however also improve my pasture with my shavings and manure. i compost it for a year, then i put it on the spreader and spread it. I have some very rocky areas, so i let the compost pile be on the worst part of my pasture.

Simple barn, spend your money on the riding area.

look at the farm after heavy rain
snow,
and then decide how to lay out, so you do not put the barn or riding area in the natural run off area, and if you do, then you know you need to put a blue stone base so the run of goes under the riding and living surface.

made sure you have a good cutter, regularly cutting the paddocks is very important for weed control, because the horses will graze the grass they like, and the weeds they do not like will come in, keeping them cut down and being able to do so easily, is very important.

[fergusnc]

Another thought....if it will go across turnout or pasture areas, run the water and power as far ahead of your horses coming home as possible. Give the ground time to settle and pack after trenching, allow yourself time to have more dirt brought in or touch ups done. It will help avoid the horses sinking into an air pocket when the ground gets wet. I was in a no-choice situation when I moved my guys here waaaay earlier than planned, and waaaay earlier in the game than I wanted as far as set up. Horses came months before I had water or power at barn, and although it turned out OK, that path where the power and water run, going straight across their barnyard, has been a point of stress a few times with sinking. And it was done about 1.5 years ago....but never have time to settle after rains without horses around. It is just now starting to act like normal dirt/mud when it rains.

[Tarlo Farm]

You're getting lots of great ideas, Piedmont had a super list, as did Fergusnc. I'm a big fan of run-ins (or one big run-in) instead of stalls. I'm on my fourth barn and would never do it any other way. Make sure you have plenty of light in your barn; watch the roofline and snow slide/wind/rain; big doors/stall doors; lots of electrical outlets everywhere; hot and cold water in the barn is nice but not necessary. Cold for sure, buried deeply.
Whatever you do, set your pastures so you can rotate them regularly. The more the better, so you can let one rest for a summer. The area closest to the run-in/stalls will be your dirt sacrifice area. I'm in MI, and not on a busy road, so mine are out all night and only one pasture has access to the run-in. I like to put the ponies in that one when I go out of town so the house sitter can keep a better eye on them.
Good luck on your purchase! (You did get assurance you can keep horses, right?)

[boots-aregard]

Re the perimeter track. I'm liking the perimeter track for the track aspect, not for the manure disposal aspect. Hasn't anyone else had experiences with how slipperly wet manure tracks are? I don't know your climate, so maybe it's not a thing, but I've always understood you don't put manure on tracks.

[Dapple Field]

Boots, I would suspect that the amount of shavings mixed in with the manure would be a factor. Few shavings would equal slipperyness. Also the drainage under the shavings track would be important.

[Srhorselady]

Re: manure on the trail...straight manure could be slippery. However, when mixed with bedding AND run through a manure spreader it is not an issue. Climate also makes a difference. Ours decomposes VERY rapidly and is not slippery.