Would you do it differently?

Tanker-yanker
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Would you do it differently?

Postby Tanker-yanker » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:07 pm

Loved horses since I could remember. Snuck over the fence and made friends with horses on the outskirts of the small farming community I lived in. Got my first horse given to me when I was 14. Kept horses and showed until the late 90's. Sold everything and divorced and did nothing horsey until 2010.

Took lessons and paid for a horse's shoes in lieu of riding and showing when I wanted. This was very cheap compared to having my own horse and the upkeep. I got way further in my riding then I did owning my own horse.

Why not sorta lease a horse and move up the four levels and move on? Why own a horse and struggle?

Am I being too simplistic? Did it just work out well for me and it was a rare situation or? Thoughts?

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Rosie B
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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby Rosie B » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:18 pm

First off, if you were able to lease a horse and move up through the levels that way, congratulations!!!

I also leased a horse and took her from training level to third levelish over the course of the 4 years of weekly lessons and another 3 years of leasing. It was slow going because of the weekly lessons at first and then life got in the way a bit... then the lease ended and my dream was always to own my own dressage horse and bring him or her up the levels myself so I bought a 2 year old. If I had been able to continue the lease I probably would have.

But now that I have my own (he's now 7), I much prefer this to leasing. I have him at home and I love everything about it except not having an indoor in winter. The costs are actually lower than leasing.

For many other people, there are no leases available... or the lease doesn't work out, or the horse isn't suitable, or something else happens. Everyone makes it their own way, or not.

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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby Tsavo » Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:59 pm

I used to wonder that also until I spoke with a friend from my barn who is presently leasing a horse that is not the most fun. I asked her why the hell doesn't she just lease a different horse? She said there are not a lot of suitable lease horses available for off site lease and it is expensive to lease. Before she said that, I never realized people pay to lease horses. I assumed the leasee just took over all expenses. I guess there are so few suitable lease horses that the owners have the luxury of charging. And the charges are in the four figures a month. When you get into that territory, it becomes less attractive.

Tanker-yanker
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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby Tanker-yanker » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:24 pm

Rosie B wrote:First off, if you were able to lease a horse and move up through the levels that way, congratulations!!!

I also leased a horse and took her from training level to third levelish over the course of the 4 years of weekly lessons and another 3 years of leasing.

But now that I have my own (he's now 7), I much prefer this to leasing. I have him at home and I love everything about it except not having an indoor in winter. The costs are actually lower than leasing.


I only got through first and then moved and have not been on a horse since. Four years leasing and learning make so much more sense than years of struggling. Then you can teach your own horse.

I was reading this ad for a horse product and one of the things it said "having the same problem for 30 years". Who the heck has a problem for 30 years? Would you sit in your car and try to get it to go for 30 years?

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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby boots-aregard » Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:26 pm

I've done both, and have leased horses to others.

My firm conviction is that in modern life, and for *most* people, one horse requires at least 2 riders. Almost no one (who isn't a pro in the business) can ride every day and the horse generally benefits from daily riding.*

Leasing serves a very useful purpose but almost everybody I know has a story about how a leased horse was sold out from under them. So there's that.

*(No, please, don't everybody pile on an assure me they ride all the time. I'm sure YOU do. I'm sure you know a lot of other folks who don't. I'm talking about them.)

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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby kande50 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:31 pm

Tanker-yanker wrote:Four years leasing and learning make so much more sense than years of struggling.


Assuming (big assumption) that one has as much time to ride their own horse as they would a lease, why would one situation be learning while the other was struggling?

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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby Tsavo » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:02 pm

Lol well if I was paying $1200 to lease a horse ON TOP OF boarding and training fees, I would be riding the horse twice every day religiously. LOL.

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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby Moutaineer » Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:21 pm

it depends. For me, the riding part of horses is only one part. When I first got back into riding as an adult, I part leased a horse and it was great because I travelled a lot, I wasn't responsible for all the bills and I could work out where I wanted my horse life to go without commitment.

However, I like owning horses of my own. I like to be the one making the decisions. I like to be able to build a relationship with a horse that is going to be with me over the long haul, so now I'm fortunate enough to be able to do so, that's what I do. And yes, I've got a couple of retired backyard ornaments and I'm spending my time rehabbing at the moment, but that's just fine by me and more valuable to me than getting to GP.

(I bought that first lease horse and kept her until she died.)

Tanker-yanker
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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby Tanker-yanker » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:07 pm

kande50 wrote:
Tanker-yanker wrote:Four years leasing and learning make so much more sense than years of struggling.


Assuming (big assumption) that one has as much time to ride their own horse as they would a lease, why would one situation be learning while the other was struggling?

Because the leased horse is already doing a higher level and can pack you while you learn. Very hard to teach what you do not know. So much of what I read or hear are people not moving up the levels for one reason or another.

Tanker-yanker
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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby Tanker-yanker » Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:24 pm

Moutaineer wrote:
However, I like owning horses of my own. I like to be the one making the decisions. I like to be able to build a relationship with a horse that is going to be with me over the long haul, so now I'm fortunate enough to be able to do so, that's what I do.


Totally get this and I did enjoy having coffee with my horse (and a cig, quit that too) in my bathrobe in the morning.

I am just thinking that with not owning a horse at this time I can make other decisions that I might not make because selling is a pain.

I guess I feel free to look at things. I was a horse owner since age 14 and I was "stuck" with a horse instead of like now when I am not.

How much horse could/would I buy if I went and got one this week vs mapping out a plan and getting some really good instruction and riding some decent horses.

What a different rider I would be if I focused on say 6 months of something like this three times a week (I have no idea what something like this would cost) instead of spending my money on upkeep for my own horse http://www.gotseat.com/
And then took lessons with a good trainer for another 6 months. It seems like I would be buying a different horse in one years time, then I would if I bought one next week and made do with what I had and what money I had left after paying upkeep.

Am I making any sense?

Moutaineer
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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby Moutaineer » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:14 am

Total sense, and I can entirely understand what you mean. It's a very logical and sensible thing to try to do.

kande50
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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby kande50 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:27 pm

Tanker-yanker wrote:Because the leased horse is already doing a higher level and can pack you while you learn. Very hard to teach what you do not know. So much of what I read or hear are people not moving up the levels for one reason or another.


I know we've discussed this before, but I think the reasons that people don't move up through the levels have a lot more to do with money and time than the horse, which so many have found out when they coughed up the money for a trained horse and then found that they still weren't moving up through the levels.

Course if one has enough money they don't need much time, and if they have enough time they don't need as much money, but if they don't have enough of either then progress is going to be much slower than as if they did. And that doesn't even consider athletic ability, energy levels, drive, or whether they would rather go the classical route than the competitive one.

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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby Abby Kogler » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:15 pm

Tanker I think you make perfect sense. Its rare to find one horse that can accommodate a rider learning/trying/wanting to go up the levels. It would make sense to lease a different horses through time.

Because there are so many horses and such a variety of work in this area I cant extrapolate to other parts of the country. But around here you will find 'feed leases', where the lessee takes the horse either on site or maybe another barn and just takes over the expenses. These situations go across all disciplines and situations. But you also have lots and lots of paid leases...where the lessee pays a monthly fee, which can be quite high, and also takes over the expenses. These situations are usually but not always people who are competing. And it is still less expensive to lease a horse for 25000 a year plus expenses that to buy said horse for 100000. It is particularly popular with h/j kids showing ponies...the parents lease a pony suitable for the kid at the stage and size and then move on to the next one. It is also common in the dressage show barns for amateurs learning the competition ropes.

I have never leased a horse and have leased one out to a friend when I was not able to ride; he is a great KWPN 3rd level schoolmaster type and I know her and trusted her. She just took him to her home barn leased him to one of her adult students. It helped us both; she had a nice safe horse to teach on and I knew he was safe and staying in work. No lease fee to me. He is home now and will teach my peeps now.

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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby exvet » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:27 pm

I have never been without a horse that I owned. I have leased horses but that was at the same time I had my horses. Horses for me are more than a hobby, sport-interest or 'pet'. They are a lifestyle and truly a part of who I am. I grew up in a family that was entrenched in agriculture and that included a long history of breeding horses (though my parents claim they aren't horse people per se......I have several pictures of my dad on horses in his youth and he even rode one of mine but if you were to ask him he would insist he's not a horse person LOL.)

So while I will lease a horse, my efforts to advance my riding rely on both aspects - leasing and owning. My leasing efforts were for two purposes, breeding and to increase my saddle time and experience. I've never paid to lease a horse other than its upkeep. I also don't buy horses over 4 figures. I've leased horses to other people with mostly good results, only one horrible experience.

In the end though I consider myself a budgeting queen, when you add it up, I've spent well over 1 million on my horse addiction throughout the years; and though I've scaled back significantly I can't yet come to terms with a life where I don't own a horse. I know I will likely have to some day; but, I choose not to think about it or hope I go out without ever having realized it.

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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby Sue B » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:49 pm

I love owning horses, have owned at least one horse since I bought my first one at 14. In order to buy that first horse i had to 1) save enough to purchase it, 2) have a significant amount of $$ in a savings account for emergencies and 3)have a steady income to cover the normal expenses of owning a horse. I had to write out my projected budget and go through it with my dad to demonstrate I had done my research. He, in exchange, talked the neighbor into letting us use his pasture that first summer (he and I repaired the fence--a great father-daughter bonding time) and the next year he built a corral for me to keep him in. Over the winter, I had to board the horse in town in order to be able to ride and train my little guy. I cleaned stalls and watered all the outside horses every day after school in exchange for outside boarding. In the summer I worked all day in exchange for lessons, rides to shows, and money. At 16, I became the youngest licensed guide in the State of Idaho, helped build a dude shack and corrals, and led folks on trail rides. Meanwhile, I sold the first horse to buy a "better" one and never looked back. The only time I was horseless was during vet school and a couple years after while I got established.

I have been fortunate to have been given rides on other people's very nice horses, I even worked for a bnt dressage trainer in California for a year. Even during my vet school years, I always had a nice horse to ride, so I've never been without. Not all were dressage horses though. Some were 3-day horses, some jumpers, one was a reiner and one was a saddle-seat trained Morgan--all of them fun and challenging in their own ways. I would absolutely not ever change anything about my horse-related life, and I hope to always have horses right outside my bedroom window just like I have now.

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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby Tsavo » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:07 pm

Hey Sue B, as a vet, can I get your opinion about the Lameness Locator? :-)

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orono
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Re: Would you do it differently?

Postby orono » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:01 am

I wouldn't do anything differently, I have ridden regularly for about 35 years, and have owned for much of it. When finances have been tight I have leased horses out to cover the costs but maintain control. I have had ups and downs, times of advancing, and other times of stagnation (probably some regression too!). I don't think it's fair to compare riding to the operation of a car, since we are dealing with living and breathing animals who have personalities, some health concerns etc, and the biggest issue is that you can work up to whatever level on a previous horse, and then have to start over from scratch with a new one.

I think if horses up the 4 levels and beyond were readily available for lease or to learn on people would jump at it - many would lease in conjunction with owning their own. But they are simply not available for most people. Often (but not always) horses that are available to lease are also for sale, so while you may enjoy a period of leasing that is beneficial and rewarding the horse can easily be pulled out from under you. I've had this happen a few times, and it sucks. I have also leased some amazing upper level horses that were a pleasure to ride, I'm grateful for the time with them though it was fairly short term in the grand scheme of things.

I do agree that it is good to learn on a horse that knows, but many have fallen into the trap of buying an advanced schoolmaster only to get them home and not be able to get them to do much (anything), so it's still a partnership that has to develop with time.

I'm glad you're happy with what you've done, and it has worked well for your lifestyle.


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